Cycling and heaing loss

[slowgoing]

I have a neighbor who is a long time Harley rider (think six time Sturgis attendee before it became popular). He swears his hearing loss is attributable wind buffeting from riding.

Anyone know if there have been any studies or other info linking wind buffeting with hearing loss in cyclists? Does anyone take any precautions to prevent wind buffeting while riding? If so, what?

[itsflantastic]

I know it's a problem with truck drivers too. . .I don't think we're moving fast enough though. . .

much worse to wear your iPod cranked up all the time imho which a lot of guys on bikes do.

[Fixed]

great bro i'm goin to be deaf and blind
cheers :beer:

[Ray]

Have you ever RIDDEN a Harley? Have you HEARD one up close? Those suckers are LOUD!!!! That's not wind, bro, that's the machine. Do they cause brain damage too?

-Ray

[sspielman]

Have you ever RIDDEN a Harley? Have you HEARD one up close? Those suckers are LOUD!!!! That's not wind, bro, that's the machine. Do they cause brain damage too?

-Ray

You could build a case......you could probably build a case that they cause obesity, too!

[goonster]

That's not wind, bro, that's the machine.

+1.

When I hear the words "long-time Harley rider" and "hearing loss" used in the same sentence, wind buffeting is not what comes to mind . . . :no:

[slowgoing]

Have you ever RIDDEN a Harley? Have you HEARD one up close? Those suckers are LOUD!!!! That's not wind, bro, that's the machine. Do they cause brain damage too?

-Ray


Yeah, good point. Although this is one of the last guys I'd accuse of having brain damage - he looks like he was a card carrying member of HA and he's got a bona fide arsenal. Good guy to know.

But the question remains - does the wind passing by your ears while cycling do any harm? It sure does seem loud.

[goonster]

you could probably build a case that they cause obesity, too!

That's what I always say!

"Harley riders are America's leading edge of obesity."

[Frog Hair]

Hearing loss on motorcycles is a very real thing.
Discount the loud exhaust, because that noise is being projected away from the rider. Its the wind that does it.
Sport bikes (racer-replicas) are not as bad, because the riders helmet is pointed at its most aerodynamic position. The air flows smoother and the noise is less.
But for the more common Harleys and other "upright" bikes, the average wind noise equals about 85 - 90 decibles. Thats not immediately annoying the same way an extreme high or low noise would sound, but it will kill your mid-range hearing very fast. For guys with half-helmets, its worse.
It gets considerably worse at speeds over 55mph.
I have never seen any results for cycling. But I don't think that the wind noise on a bicycle is ever much more than 50 decibles, at its worst. Not enough to do any damage.
So keep your bicycle speeds below 55 as much as you can :) and you should be in good shape for healthy ears.

[Ray]

So keep your bicycle speeds below 55 as much as you can :) and you should be in good shape for healthy ears.
Oh cr@p, I'll have to lay off the EPO for a while.

I can imagine wind noise is an issue on motorcycles, but I still think Harley riders bring some of it on themselves. Even if the exhaust is pointed back, away from them, they tend to ride in packs and all but the first guy are right behind SOMEbody's exhaust pipes.

-Ray

[Frog Hair]

Oh cr@p, I'll have to lay off the EPO for a while.

I can imagine wind noise is an issue on motorcycles, but I still think Harley riders bring some of it on themselves. Even if the exhaust is pointed back, away from them, they tend to ride in packs and all but the first guy are right behind SOMEbody's exhaust pipes.

-Ray


True. But thats a different sceanrio. Riding behind someone elses exhaust cannons is much louder than being in front of them. Ironically, its the low speeds on the straight pipe Harleys that do the hearing damage, because you are getting all that noise right into your ears. But its the greater wind noise that does the most collective damage.

I commented on this post because I have ridden motorcycles all my life and I have participated in some very lengthy hearing loss programs. I got to volunteer in a wind tunnel study of helmets, rider position, windshields, engine noise, etc., etc. to gather data on ambient noise levels and how they affect hearing. I personally have lost a lot of hearing, and best we can tell its been an effect of motorcycles (and I've never owned a Harley, and cannot remember the last time I rode behind one).

Part of the wind test included things like just standing in the wind tunnel and monitoring the natural noise of wind over your un-protected ears. Of course, that was really low stuff and just made for interesting data. Thats why I don't think you'd get enough wind on the bicycle to make a negative difference.

[gt6267a]

Discount the loud exhaust, because that noise is being projected away from the rider.

not certain discounting the motor noise is possible. high pitched noises are directional, low pitched noises are not. seems doubtful that the low grumble of a chopper / harley / whatev are only going in the direction of the tail pipe.

[Too Tall]

I blame it on front row ctr at Dead shows :cool:

I'd say it would be impossible to determine a dominant cause in his case. FWIIW a completely unqalified guess on my part is that wind noise is rarely if ever at levels at or above what is considered dangerous / damaging...otherwise I'd hate riding my bike...alot.

[Ray]

I blame it on front row ctr at Dead shows :cool:

Again with the directional issue. I spent a WHOLE FRIGGIN LOT of time front row center at Dead shows (ironically right behind the Hell's Angels on several occasions, but without their Harleys) and never had any problem with hearing issues. But on a few occasions of self-victimization, I found myself trying to recover waaaay over on the side of the floor, near where the PA speakers were and just about kilt my poor hearing. I remember a few feeback notes in Tacoma in '88 specifically that were as physically painful as any broken bone I've experienced.

Front row center was the safest place to be. Or right behind the board with all of the tapers.

-Ray

[Kevan]

Have you ever RIDDEN a Harley? Have you HEARD one up close? Those suckers are LOUD!!!! That's not wind, bro, that's the machine. Do they cause brain damage too?

-Ray

and add several dozen together, or several hundred as those meetings go, it's a wonder there aren't more people complaining about the lack of hearing.

Then again...maybe they are, but no one can hear them.

[MarleyMon]

... right behind the board with all of the tapers.
Now THATS music to my ears!

[thejen12]

I hate wind in my ears, both for the noise and the actual buffetting of the wind. I always wear my headband over my ears so it holds them back from sticking out in the wind and partially covers the openings so less wind goes in. I don't see how others can ride without doing that, but I think I'm in the minority.

Jenn

[rwsaunders]

Sustained high sound pressure levels combined with higher frequencies are the real danger. I.e., jet engines, turbines, rock concerts and espresso machines.

[cadence231]

Catalogs have exclusive sections on this subject: http://www.webbikeworld.com/Earplugs/earplugs.htm .

[Too Tall]

Sustained high sound pressure levels combined with higher frequencies are the real danger. I.e., jet engines, turbines, rock concerts and espresso machines.

HE!! You say...espresso machines...indeeeeed!!!! Humph ;)

Ray, you sir are the freakin' man.

[mcteague]

Don't want to go too far OT but why do all these idiots add pipes that give everyone in a half-mile radius ear bleeds? Stock bikes actually have to meet noise standards and I'm sure most of these Harleys would fail; but no one checks I suppose. One rider actually claimed it was for safety reasons!!! Come on, you don't really hear it much as it comes towards you, due to the direction of the pipe and perhaps the Doppler effect, but Thor help you if you are behind it. And, at stop lights they just seem to feel the need to keep revving the freakin' thing. I rode a single cylinder 250 dual-purpose bike everywhere when I was young and never needed to do this. Never felt the need to add after-market loud pipes either. I just chalk it up to masculinity issues. Guess this is one of my many buttons.

Tim McTeague

[JohnS]

If I rode a 250cc DP bike, I wouldn't want to call attention to myself, either. :)

[ti_boi]

i went from 50w amps....to 18w models......helpful indeed....

[gone]

I've searched for the issue I read it in to no avail but I recall reading an extensive article in the BMW Owner's News a while back and the bottom line (as I recall it) was: the low frequency "thrumming" of the wind is a significant cause of hearing loss. My recollection is that the conclusion was it was worse than e.g., a rock concert in the front row. As I recall, they did tests with no helmet, half-helmets and full face helmets and the results were very similar although the FF helmets did help somewhat.

I always wear musician earplugs, made by etymotic, that attenuate all frequencies an even 15 db when riding a motorcycle. I also wear them when cycling on windy days. You'd be surprised how much more relaxing and comfortable it makes riding in the wind.

[mcteague]

If I rode a 250cc DP bike, I wouldn't want to call attention to myself, either. :)
No insecurity here. It was a time before I could afford a car and I rode that thing everywhere. It was great, I would be tooling along the road and see an interesting woods path and off I'd go. It was stone reliable, being only one cylinder, and was easy to pick back up after a spill. Of course it was kick start unlike all these macho Harleys.

Tim McTeague

[OldDog]

If I rode a 250cc DP bike, I wouldn't want to call attention to myself, either. :)

+1
Har Har Har!


Lifetime bicyclist here. I love sharing the rides between my Sachs, Spectrum and Eddy MXL.

Lifetime motorcyclists too, last 16 years on Harleys. Currently have a new softtail Deuce tricked out with screaming eagle parts for 108 horsepower. Vance bigshot drag pipes, but with the quite baffle. Noise was too loud. Still plenty loud but with a low low tone.

Frog Hair is right on the money. Wind noise for me is a problem, far more so then a loud pipe. Wind noise over 40 is unbearable, I wear earplugs. Wind noise on the bicycles is a problem too, not so much painful as when riding at 50, but it's noise none the less and it's hard to carry on a converstion with other riders unless we are going fairly slow, which for me is common anymore.

Loud pipes are annoying. So are loud garden tractors, chainsaws on Sunday mornings, music thumping out of cars from 200 yards away. Jet skies and jet aircraft too. And cyclists spread over the lane of a back road blocking all traffic. Old folks in supermarkets after SS checks come out. Get used to it, it's part of life.

Tim, your name calling and comments are disrespectful and add nothing to the OP.

[Onno]

Yes, there are lots of sources of loud noises that are annoying. The racket from straight pipes on motorcycles seems different from many of the other sources you list in that it's deliberate and unnecessary. They are made to be loud. Loudness is the point. I think of it as someone constantly giving a raspberry to the world. Gets old fast. That it's also against the law also makes me feel as though it isn't something I ought to have to just get used to. There was a story on the news the other night that suggested that some towns and cities are going to start enforcing the law, and passing tighter local regulations. Perhaps it's the beginning of a new quieter motorcycle culture.

[mcteague]

+1


Tim, your name calling and comments are disrespectful and add nothing to the OP.

Just because I said people who add super loud pipes to their motorcycles are idiots? Better stay out of the sun so that thin skin does not burn off.

Tim McTeague

[benb]

I've had 3 motorcycles, have rode about 60,000 miles on the street and try to go to the racetrack for practice/training every year. (I unfortunately had my first racetrack crash this year, but whatever.. I repaired it already, it was less traumatic then many of my bicycle crashes.)

Here is my take on it, keep in mind I always wear expensive full face helmets that have had plenty of engineering put into them to quiet things down.. and I wear ear plugs 99% of the time too.

I've rode many make & models of motorcycles.. with and without loud pipes.

Here are my opinions...

- It can get annoying on a bicycle if I'm going 20+ mph into a 10+ mph headwind. But not painful.

- Engine/pipe noise is insignificant.. at highway speeds on my current bike I cannot hear the bike at all above the wind noise unless I go into a racer tuck and get my head right down on the tank. A couple of the harleys I've rode had much louder exhaust pipes but even then they get droned out almost completely at highway speed.

- Harleys & other cruisers actually have less wind noise then most sport or sport/touring bikes assuming the cruiser doesn't have a windshield.. because the windshield on the sportbikes actually creates a high pressure air zone around your head when it deflects the air... (unless you're really short and are totally in the bubble.. but most people aren't.)

I don't think it's a worry on a bicycle.. if it was we'd have heard about it.. the pros would all be deaf.

In my experience a bike like a harley gets painful from wind noise around 65-70mph.. a sportbike gets there around 50-55mph.

The stupid illegal/non-functional beanie helmets that are popular right now probably increase your chance of hearing loss a lot.. and I doubt those guys wear ear plugs very much.. but then again they also tend to be the type who don't ride very far.

I've been tempted to try those plastic "spoilers" that someone is selling for the straps on your bicycle helmet.. try holding your hand in front of your ear when you're bicycling into a headwind.. it cuts the noise almost 100%.

ATMO.

[chrisroph]

The stupid illegal/non-functional beanie helmets that are popular right now probably increase your chance of hearing loss a lot.. and I doubt those guys wear ear plugs very much.. but then again they also tend to be the type who don't ride very far.




I also love to ride motorcycles. It is definitely the wind that creates problematic noise. I also feel that the type of motorcycle, fairing shape, helmet type, rider size, rider posture, and whether you will be riding around and behind cars, all contribute to the problem.

I just sold my ducati multistrada and bought a ducati 1098. The wind noise on the multi was considerable and I always wore earplugs. The wind noise on the 1098 is considerably less and I usually only wear plugs if I will be riding over 2 hours, doing lots of high speed open road riding, or ride behind cars at highway speed, which I try to always avoid. A car in front of a bike causes a lot of uncomfortable and noisy buffeting.

BTW, I saw many a dead concert and always wore plugs, and I still carry ear protection to concerts just in case.

I have never found wind noise to be a problem on a bicycle and I think it would be dangerous to lose the sense of hearing while cycling in most places. It might be fine for my cemetary hill repeats but I haven't pulled out the ipod for those, mostly because I gave my daughter the dreadful stock buds; I use shure phones for the much better sound.

[Ted]

What you guys need are Windfoils
http://www.buschmantechnologies.com/

or Slipstreamz
http://www.slipstreamz.com/

These are ear covers that deflect the wind thereby making a normal conversation with the guy next to you audible. I have never used them but have been quite tempted to fabricate my own (cheapskate problem).

Ted

[benb]

I've had times where the wind was driving me nuts and I wished I had my earplugs in.. but I never would really go for it cause most of the bicycle ride you're going slower and it's not a factor (going uphill).

And if you're riding in a group or racing you don't hear the wind at all except when you get to the front.

I love that crazy sensation when you're in a race and all you can hear is the air rushing over the spokes since there is no wind noise inside the pack... amazing...