ot jenna six

[Fixed]

http://www.whileseated.org/photo/003244.shtml


bro this stuff still goes on in the south... man d .c. was nice
cheers

[cadence90]

http://www.whileseated.org/photo/003244.shtml


bro this stuff still goes on in the south... man d .c. was nice
cheers
It goes on in lots of places, just in different guises.

But I agree with your sentiment.

[LegendRider]

NOTE: the following is from Steve Sailer:

A local minister, Eddie Thompson (who was one of the earliest critics of white racism in Jena), has posted on the Internet a list of everything the national media has gotten wrong about the Jena story.


- Jena does have racial problems. Jena does have bigotry and prejudice, just like every other town in America, perhaps even worse than some. If there were no racial problems, there would have been no nooses hung from a tree. There would not be one white student beaten and six black students charged with attempted second-degree murder. The local ministers would not have hurriedly called a meeting to deal with the issue. The cameras of the world would not have focused their lenses on Jena.

- The actions of the three white students who hung the nooses (on a tree at the high school) demonstrate prejudice and bigotry. However, they were not just given "two days suspension" as reported by national news agencies. After first being expelled, then upon appeal, being allowed to re-enter the school system, they were sent to an alternative school, off-campus, for an extended period of time. They underwent investigations by Federal and Sate authorities. They were given psychological evaluations. Even when they were eventually allowed back on campus they were not allowed to be a part of the general population for weeks.

- There was no "fight" on December 4, 2006 at Jena High School, as the national media continues to characterize the event in question. Six students attacked a single student who was immediately knocked unconscious. According to sworn testimony, they stomped him, as he lay "lifeless" upon the ground.

- Justin Barker, the white student attacked, was not the first white student targeted by these black students. Others had been informed they were going to be beaten, but stayed away from school and out of sight until they felt safe.

- CNN reported that there were "obviously no witnesses to the fight." In fact, over thirty eyewitnesses, students and teachers, were questioned immediately following the attack, all of who implicated one or more of the black students arrested in the case. In fact, some of the accused black students did not stop stomping Barker until they were pulled away from him by some of the teachers, according to testimony given in the trial of Mychal Bell.

- The media continues to make the point that Justin Barker "attended a party" later that evening, insinuating that his injuries were not very severe. The Barkers, by no means a wealthy family, face medical bills already over $12,000 from the emergency room visit. Imagine what an overnight visit would have cost. Justin Barker was advised to remain hospitalized but decided he would not let the event keep him from participating in the once-in-a-lifetime, traditional Ring Ceremony at First Baptist Church in Jena, where class rings are presented to the upcoming senior class.

- The fight on December 4 was unrelated to the noose incident, or any other incident that occurred earlier in Jena that week. The media keeps reporting otherwise. There are three different boys named "Justin" involved in three different events that the media have morphed into the "Justin" who was attacked on December 4:

A. A juvenile named Justin, whose name was not released to the media, was one of the boys who hung nooses from the trees in September.

B. Three months later, Justin Sloan, not a student at Jena High, fought with one of the black students, Robert Baily, at the fair barn when a couple of black students tried to enter a private party. The next evening, at "Gotta Go" store, Justin Sloan and Robert Baily confronted one another in the parking lot. There were two other black students with Baily. As they ran towards Sloan, Sloan rushed to his truck to get a shotgun, which the black boys wrestled from him and fled.

C. On December 4, six black students at Jena High School attacked Justin Barker, who is neither of the previously mentioned young men.

- The speech given by [District Attorney] Reed Walters that included the now infamous statement "I can end your life with the stroke of a pen" was not given to a group of black students. It was given during a speech to the entire student body in an assembly called by the school's principal to calm a community that was pulling their children out of school because there were two fights one day with racial overtones. Two girls, one white and one black fought. Another student was taken to the emergency room to receive stitches.

- The national news media has not mentioned a single time that there was an FBI investigation into the hanging of the nooses and the conduct of Reed Walters that concluded there was no criminal activity or "hate crime" involved. The report is available to the media, along with court records and sworn testimony, none of which has been reported.

- It has been reported that the school has two standards of justice since white students who attacked a black student were not treated as the black students who attacked a white student. No group of white students attacked a black student at Jena High School. Fights that have occurred have always been handled equally. This was not a fight. This process was taken out of the hands of school officials when the ambulance was called to bring Justin Barker to the hospital for the attack. Both the appearance of the ambulance and Barker's visit to the emergency room requires an investigation by law enforcement.

- The "Jena Six" have repeatedly been held up as heroes by much of the race-based community and called "innocent students" by the national media. Some of these students have reputations in Jena for intimidating and sometimes beating other students. They have vandalized and destroyed both school property and community property. Some of the Jena Six have been involved in crimes not only in LaSalle Parish but also in surrounding parishes. For the most part, coaches and other adults have prevented them from being held accountable for the reign of terror they have presided over in Jena. Despite intervention by adults wanting to give them chances due their athletic potential, most of the Jena Six have extensive juvenile records. Yet their parents keep insisting that their children have never been in trouble before. These boys did not receive prejudicial treatment but received preferential treatment until things got out of hand.

- The entire black community of Jena is not being heard in this controversy, just the parents, relatives, and close friends of the Jena Six. The black community of Jena has not been involved in the protests and demonstrations called by national race-based organizations. Some state and national race crusaders have chastised them for not "rising up" with the parents to force law enforcement to "free the Jena Six." Many do agree that the charges seem wrong, but they also know the criminal history of the boys referred to as the "Jena Six." It is their neighborhood these boys have terrorized. Not even all of the parents claim that these boys should be set free with no consequence for their actions. One of the parents was interviewed, saying that the boys should suffer the fair punishment for their actions. He suggested that simple battery would be an acceptable charge. With one exception, the local black pastors do not support the demonstrations. They have been openly criticized for their lack of cooperation with the national race crusaders. One of them counseled the "Jena Six" families to not stir controversy for controversy's sake. The black pastor was openly condemned by a local radio personality sympathetic to the cause of the black parents. The rhetoric grew so intense that the black pastor was referred to as Reed Walter's "house Negro" on the local radio talk show. The pastor is consistently accused on this show of working in cooperation with Reed Walters in a plot to undermine the "Jena Six."

Conclusion:

To Reed Walters: Charge these young men with the crimes of which they are guilty.

To The Parents: Hold your children accountable for their actions.

To The White Community: Stop claiming, "There is no racism here" or "We have no problems here." Live by the Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. If twelve percent of our community is feeling estranged, we should listen to their grievances.

To The Black Community: If you believe these six black students are innocent, we can "free the Jena Six" today by having the black students, who thirty witnesses testify attacked Justin Barker, step forward and take responsibility for their actions.

To The National Media: Please, get it right. Report the facts. Let them take you to the truth. Stop making Jena, Louisiana, a national scapegoat for America's sin of racism.

To America: Judge not unless you be judged. You will be judged by the same measure you judge this little town. Until you know the facts, reserve judgment. Do no believe everything you see on TV.

[1centaur]

Great post LegendRider. The media's presumption of moral superiority among professional race baiters like Jesse Jackson allows events like this to undermine the progress that should be made on the racism front. America's majority is not so stupid as to believe that six juvenile delinquents stomping on someone unconscious should be glorified as victims of racism. On the other hand, the majority CAN be trained to hear claims of racism as "there they go again" when that should NOT be the case. It's critical to equality that big efforts to protest racism actually be justifiable, not heavily spun media events. Tell the truth, don't create impressions. That said, there seems to be prosecutorial overreaching here. However, the demand should have been for the right, harsh, sentence, not to "free" the Jena 6.

My read of the situation, among all the murk, is that the Jena 6 should be tried as juveniles and sentenced harshly within that construct. Others in that town should also be dealt with harshly. There's clearly a lot of racism in that town and the best way to deal with the consequences is to apply the law fairly and evenly.

In general, I think assault and battery charges are underprosecuted in society both in high schools and later. The "oh well, people fight" attitude of prosecutors, when any beating can lead to life long health problems, is unacceptable. Initiate a beating and go to prison/jail for at least a while, misdemeanor the first time, felony the second time.

[Fixed]

that's it bro these ideas don't fly the d.a. needs to go with that old south christianity an eye for an eye crap. :crap: the tru th is in between somewhere http://www.alabasterpublishing.com/Eddie.htm
it's easy for us to pick sides ..from here what do we know .
walk a mile in a black mans shoes to face the ugly face called the south
imho that is all i saying on this i know first hand what hate i is also know what love is and it lives in the south too
cheers

[saab2000]

We've come a long way. We still have a long way to go.

[Dekonick]

a noose from a tree is a hate crime - at least thats how I see it.

as far as the 'jenna six' - who knows. six on one is more than just assault / battery...

hard to believe one genotype difference can cause this much hate. they should get more bikes to these folks, that way they could ride instead and re-focus some energy.

Dek

[Bill Bove]

Complain all you want about Jesse Jackson but back in the early eighties when we were still trying to do something in Beirut a Navy jet was shot down and the pilot captured. Jesse Jackson secured his release.

God bless Jesse Jackson for this one action. What ever else he has done or will do, he did that.

[norman neville]

Complain all you want about Jesse Jackson but back in the early eighties when we were still trying to do something in Beirut a Navy jet was shot down and the pilot captured. Jesse Jackson secured his release.

God bless Jesse Jackson for this one action. What ever else he has done or will do, he did that.

it's always remarkable that a person who spends their life shining a light on the issues of race and class in america is described as a professional race baiter, as if this is not the most wonderful thing.

[JohnS]

I've always preferred people that triy to find solutions to problems, not those who just kick and scream about them...

[norman neville]

I've always preferred people that triy to find solutions to problems, not those who just kick and scream about them...

the folks who ignore problems and pretend they don't exist, don't exist anymore or never existed will never solve anything.

[JohnS]

the folks who ignore problems and pretend they don't exist, don't exist anymore or never existed will never solve anything.
Huh? :confused:

[norman neville]

Huh? :confused:

exactly.

[JohnS]

I've always given more credence to organizations like the Salvation Army and Goodwill that actually help people rather than those that just scream about what others can do. Anyone can point out mistakes, very few try to correct them...

[1centaur]

it's always remarkable that a person who spends their life shining a light on the issues of race and class in america is described as a professional race baiter, as if this is not the most wonderful thing.

"professional" - somebody who makes his living doing something.

"race baiter" - someone who screams racism at every opportunity.

"naive" - someone who thinks race baiting = shining a light.

Everybody who grew up in this country in the last 40 years did so under a culture that emphasized equality or even special considerations for non-majority groups (i.e., non-white males). It is quite evident that this has made most people not racist, some people subconsciously racist, and fewer and fewer people genuinely and overtly racist. Someone who wants to "shine a light" on issues of race and class needs to get past the knee-jerk manipulations of 50 years ago and acknowledge this vast change, or risk alienating the very people who need to be in agreement. Calling every little thing racism and everyone racist utterly degrades the progress made, but subtlety may not be the best way to get paid, if you are a self-serving professional.

On a more practical PR level, picking Michael Vick, OJ and the Jena 6 as victims is just plain dumb. Surely if racism is so common it would be easier to pick good people to defend.

[norman neville]

I've always given more credence to organizations like the Salvation Army and Goodwill that actually help people rather than those that just scream about what others can do. Anyone can point out mistakes, very few try to correct them...

i'm not sure holding up goodwill or the sally army as paragons of altruism is the best tactic. especially the sally's, for them it's all about the lord, whether that's your lord or not. goodwill is pretty much a bunch of, well, they're out for their individual paychecks, pretty much.

like everybody else.

[norman neville]

keep in mind, this stuff in jena didn't happen fifty years ago, or a hundred and fifty. it happened this year. and this sort of crap goes on every day, all over, but especially in the south. there was a white tree at the highschool and everybody knew about it and did nothing. the deadly weapons used by the african-american kids were sneakers. a beatdown sucks, sure, but it's not murder. and the white kids weren't facing life despite the threatened use of a gun. i know everyone (or at least alot of folks) needs to rationalize this so they can sleep at night, say it wasn't so bad, things are good, we've come along way, america rocks, the black kids were trouble, but none of that garbage changes history or reality. sorry.

[JohnS]

i'm not sure holding up goodwill or the sally army as paragons of altruism is the best tactic. especially the sally's, for them it's all about the lord, whether that's your lord or not. goodwill is pretty much a bunch of, well, they're out for their individual paychecks, pretty much.

like everybody else. Obviously, you don't know anyone who works for Goodwill. I know several very well. They are some of the hardest working, most compassionate people I know. Yes, they draw a paycheck, but everyone has to live.
I notice that your public bio is empty. What do YOU do for a living. Let us know what you do so that we can make generalizations about your line of work, like you do about others...

[norman neville]

"professional" - somebody who makes his living doing something.

"race baiter" - someone who screams racism at every opportunity.

"naive" - someone who thinks race baiting = shining a light.

Everybody who grew up in this country in the last 40 years did so under a culture that emphasized equality or even special considerations for non-majority groups (i.e., non-white males). It is quite evident that this has made most people not racist, some people subconsciously racist, and fewer and fewer people genuinely and overtly racist. Someone who wants to "shine a light" on issues of race and class needs to get past the knee-jerk manipulations of 50 years ago and acknowledge this vast change, or risk alienating the very people who need to be in agreement. Calling every little thing racism and everyone racist utterly degrades the progress made, but subtlety may not be the best way to get paid, if you are a self-serving professional.

On a more practical PR level, picking Michael Vick, OJ and the Jena 6 as victims is just plain dumb. Surely if racism is so common it would be easier to pick good people to defend.

that was some good stuff. i think i read much the same on a box of--well decorum tells me to only note that it was somewhere, once. i'm pretty sure nobody here defended oj or vick in this thread. of course, many famous dog torturers don't get any bad press, and murder isn't always such a big deal when oj didn't do it.

professional race baiter: someone who has made a good living while still managing to rub the noses of both the ruling class and the ignorant underclass whites in the sad history of racism and inequality in this country.

besides the international diplomacy which has in fact saved lives, jesse jackson managed to shame some of the other candidates in the 1988 presidential election into at least acknowledging a few of the issues facing the majority of all americans. that's rare in national electoral politics.

[norman neville]

Obviously, you don't know anyone who works for Goodwill. I know several very well. They are some of the hardest working, most compassionate people I know. Yes, they draw a paycheck, but everyone has to live.
I notice that your public bio is empty. What do YOU do for a living. Let us know what you do so that we can make generalizations about your line of work, like you do about others...

don't presume to tell me who i know or who i don't know. many folks do good work, but holding an organization up as a role model is a darned high standard. in my opinion, from my experience, that organization doesn't meet mine.

for example, jesse jackson has worked very hard in his life. sure, he's no john africa, but then, who is?

[JohnS]

Jesse has ridden the coattails of being one of MLK's lieutenants for the past 40 years. He's good at pointing out others' faults, but he's kind of quiet when it comes to him helping fix them.
Speaking of holding organizations up as role models, how many people has Operation Push trained or rehabbed? Isn't that what it's all about, helping people to better themselves? Anyone can tell others what they need to do. It's much harder to actually go out there and do it yourself.

[Fixed]

bro i think we all agree whatever happened there was bad for everyone .imho
cheers :beer:

[JohnS]

bro i think we all agree whatever happened there was bad for everyone .imho
cheers :beer:Agreed.

[manet]

... but man i hope sharpton starts a hunger strike

[rounder]

I agree that what happened in Jena sure sounds like racism. But if we are gonna say that some white Louisianans are racist, what about Ray Nagin...mayor of New Orleans...when he said that he wanted to preserve his chocolate city. That also sounded racist to me. Maybe that helps explain why things in LA are confrontational.

[jeffg]

"professional" - somebody who makes his living doing something.

"race baiter" - someone who screams racism at every opportunity.

"naive" - someone who thinks race baiting = shining a light.

Everybody who grew up in this country in the last 40 years did so under a culture that emphasized equality or even special considerations for non-majority groups (i.e., non-white males). It is quite evident that this has made most people not racist, some people subconsciously racist, and fewer and fewer people genuinely and overtly racist. Someone who wants to "shine a light" on issues of race and class needs to get past the knee-jerk manipulations of 50 years ago and acknowledge this vast change, or risk alienating the very people who need to be in agreement. Calling every little thing racism and everyone racist utterly degrades the progress made, but subtlety may not be the best way to get paid, if you are a self-serving professional.

On a more practical PR level, picking Michael Vick, OJ and the Jena 6 as victims is just plain dumb. Surely if racism is so common it would be easier to pick good people to defend.

Progress is encouraging but does not signal the absence of a problem.
Take right-wing populism in Europe (Le Pen, Haider, etc.). Germany has made tremendous progress in my view (and has banned the NDP) but, especially in the former East Germany, racism and even Anti-Semitism is still problem.

The notion of being colorblind just means being blind to the problems of color, gender and ethnicity. Having spent time 20 miles from the front during the latest Balkan conflict I can tell you the problem goes beyond color. My wife, who has worked in NGOs from the projects in Baltimore to Mozambique would tell you racism is as alive in this country as it is abroad. I have the utmost respect for her and people who are doing something about the problem in my experience are the least likely to deny there is one.

I am no fan of Al Sharpton or even Jesse Jackson on occassion, but the situation illustrates a great deal about us and where we are as a society. If we think about not necessarily picking sides but observing what is happening, I believe it gives us cause to reflect and be hopeful yet saddened by the state of race relations in this country.

[1happygirl]

I know nothing about this story as I worked 70 hours in 5 days, but I know it is a big story. All I can say is the principle I apply to all my interactions. My parents taught me several important things when dealing with others :

1. Don't lower yourself to their level
2. Two wrongs don't make a right
3. Life is a pendulum and ideas usually swing to one extreme and then the other. I can give several non-related examples to this story, but I'll leave it at that.
4. Show your ideas by your actions and lead by example

All I can say is I am somewhat happier these days working more and not having time to watch tv and national media.

[soulspinner]

I know nothing about this story as I worked 70 hours in 5 days, but I know it is a big story. All I can say is the principle I apply to all my interactions. My parents taught me several important things when dealing with others :

1. Don't lower yourself to their level
2. Two wrongs don't make a right
3. Life is a pendulum and ideas usually swing to one extreme and then the other. I can give several non-related examples to this story, but I'll leave it at that.
4. Show your ideas by your actions and lead by example

All I can say is I am somewhat happier these days working more and not having time to watch tv and national media.

+1-My dads favorite reply to adversity was #2

[Too Tall]

There are so many things I could comment pick one...the principle of the school had to be deaf dumb and blind NOT to have seen and experianced the tension in his school and FAILING to work the bejeepers out of creating an atmosphere where students can talk without hate.

Ayup Fixed all I have to do is leave the metro area and things are different I hear yah it's plain to see.

[1centaur]

Progress is encouraging but does not signal the absence of a problem.

I am no fan of Al Sharpton or even Jesse Jackson on occassion, but the situation illustrates a great deal about us and where we are as a society. If we think about not necessarily picking sides but observing what is happening, I believe it gives us cause to reflect and be hopeful yet saddened by the state of race relations in this country.

I explicitly did not say we don't have a problem. I also don't think Jena represents where we are as a society. The Jena story as laid out in the media looks like America of the 1950s, though LegendRider's piece showed there was a lot more "getting along" under the surface than most people were seeing. Jena shows we have pockets of remaining intractable racism; the relative scarcity of similar stories in a world where camera crews are just waiting to cover them tells us a lot too. That's why more and more pot stirrers are resorting to the "everybody's racist they just don't know it" type of rationale for continuing to pound the table like it's 1963.

Progress must be acknowledged and be part of the everyday dialog from those pushing minority issues or the problem will NOT improve. Professional race baiters spend their days stirring up emotions and pushing the white guilt button for money like lab rats getting pellets. Meanwhile I have heard two white people in my world utter racist epithets (and mean them) in the last 30 years, the last time a month ago as I was rehydrating from a ride while outside a small community store in New Hampshire and two rednecks were going in. One used a derogatory slur and the other said, "Stop it. I can't believe you said that!" It's human nature to be less comfortable with other people not just like ourselves, but the dictionary definition of racism (the belief that one race is inferior or a policy based on race) is not widely held in white society anymore, and growing less so all the time. Time for black leaders to acknowledge this is so in order to start weeding out subtler racial problems. While MLK is widely viewed as having firm moral ground by white people, Jesse Jackson has lost most of his credibility over the years by not changing with the times.

And BTW, to norman neville, America has no "ruling class." Clinton, Bush, Obama, Reagan, Carter, Edwards, McCain, Giuliani. Show me another country with leaders that come from such diverse backgrounds. And as for movers and shakers, Wall Street is full of up from the bootstraps people and corporate CEOs on average worked their way up from modest roots. There's a bias in our government and in some companies to favor Ivy League backgrounds, but the liberal tendencies of those institutions suggest that racism is unlikely to be well nourished among their graduates.

[rob137]

that's it bro these ideas don't fly the d.a. needs to go with that old south christianity an eye for an eye crap. :crap: the tru th is in between somewhere http://www.alabasterpublishing.com/Eddie.htm
it's easy for us to pick sides ..from here what do we know .
walk a mile in a black mans shoes to face the ugly face called the south
imho that is all i saying on this i know first hand what hate i is also know what love is and it lives in the south too
cheers

This kind of whining infuriates me. Take charge of your situation and shut up.

[Fixed]

bro come down and see

it ain't like it is up there
imho cheers
and if u think that white fat preacher knows or cares about anyone but his little flock i got some nice land for you to look at .
cheers

[Fixed]

This kind of whining infuriates me. Take charge of your situation and shut up.
OKAY YOU JERK I'LL SHUT UP I'M SURE YOU KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE BLACK FU

[norman neville]

And BTW, to norman neville, America has no "ruling class." Clinton, Bush, Obama, Reagan, Carter, Edwards, McCain, Giuliani. Show me another country with leaders that come from such diverse backgrounds. And as for movers and shakers, Wall Street is full of up from the bootstraps people and corporate CEOs on average worked their way up from modest roots. There's a bias in our government and in some companies to favor Ivy League backgrounds, but the liberal tendencies of those institutions suggest that racism is unlikely to be well nourished among their graduates.

i don't mean to be mean, but that is one of the dumbest things i've read in a long time. if ever there was a short example of how much ignorance pervades our society and why americans are so easy to control, this is it.

[rob137]

OKAY YOU JERK I'LL SHUT UP I'M SURE YOU KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE BLACK FU

You forgot 'cheers'.

[JohnS]

i don't mean to be mean, but that is one of the dumbest things i've read in a long time. if ever there was a short example of how much ignorance pervades our society and why americans are so easy to control, this is it.
It's amazing that on a forum like this, with so many educated, intelligent people, you're the only one that "gets it". :confused:

[gdw]

He has very strong opinions.

[JohnS]

He has very strong opinions.
Nothing wrong with having strong opinions. It's when you start belittling others that hold opposing viewpoints that the problem starts. He's no better than Needs Help.

[norman neville]

I explicitly did not say we don't have a problem. I also don't think Jena represents where we are as a society. The Jena story as laid out in the media looks like America of the 1950s, though LegendRider's piece showed there was a lot more "getting along" under the surface than most people were seeing. Jena shows we have pockets of remaining intractable racism; the relative scarcity of similar stories in a world where camera crews are just waiting to cover them tells us a lot too. That's why more and more pot stirrers are resorting to the "everybody's racist they just don't know it" type of rationale for continuing to pound the table like it's 1963.

Progress must be acknowledged and be part of the everyday dialog from those pushing minority issues or the problem will NOT improve. Professional race baiters spend their days stirring up emotions and pushing the white guilt button for money like lab rats getting pellets. Meanwhile I have heard two white people in my world utter racist epithets (and mean them) in the last 30 years, the last time a month ago as I was rehydrating from a ride while outside a small community store in New Hampshire and two rednecks were going in. One used a derogatory slur and the other said, "Stop it. I can't believe you said that!" It's human nature to be less comfortable with other people not just like ourselves, but the dictionary definition of racism (the belief that one race is inferior or a policy based on race) is not widely held in white society anymore, and growing less so all the time. Time for black leaders to acknowledge this is so in order to start weeding out subtler racial problems. While MLK is widely viewed as having firm moral ground by white people, Jesse Jackson has lost most of his credibility over the years by not changing with the times.

And BTW, to norman neville, America has no "ruling class." Clinton, Bush, Obama, Reagan, Carter, Edwards, McCain, Giuliani. Show me another country with leaders that come from such diverse backgrounds. And as for movers and shakers, Wall Street is full of up from the bootstraps people and corporate CEOs on average worked their way up from modest roots. There's a bias in our government and in some companies to favor Ivy League backgrounds, but the liberal tendencies of those institutions suggest that racism is unlikely to be well nourished among their graduates.

but for some reason, seeing it here, actually makes me sad, and if it is possible to feel more hopeless about this future, this does it.

on the other hand it's really funny. this kind of rank ignorance generally makes me giggle, and rev. eddie is a good looking fella. i'm sure he has a keen wit and sparkling intellect. i know he has friends and peers here. so it's a wash.

carry on.

[JohnS]

but for some reason, seeing it here, actually makes me sad, and if it is possible to feel more hopeless about this future, this does it.
.
If you really feel hopeless about the future, I have a few suggestions on what you can do so you don't have to be around to see it... :D

[norman neville]

It's amazing that on a forum like this, with so many educated, intelligent people, you're the only one that "gets it". :confused:

sorry dude, some things are just beyond the pale. i never said i was the only one who gets it. i just have a hard time keeping quiet when the most vile ideas bob up where they don't belong. sorry. i do have strong opions about what constitutes hateful ideas; those opinions are probably not widely shared among the cable news/nyt/usa today/talk radio crowd.

as far as i'm concerned, this stuff should generally be left off the list because the idiots come out and sometimes they get stepped on and then somebody feels bad. keep closer to the topic in general and everybody gets to play nice like everything is sunny and mild and will be forever.

yay for us. we're all the best of the best.

[norman neville]

If you really feel hopeless about the future, I have a few suggestions on what you can do so you don't have to be around to see it... :D

wow, that was sharp. stinging. i'm so hurt. you've killed me. humbled by your razor wit. thank you. i'm a better man now.

[LegendRider]

bro come down and see

it ain't like it is up there
imho cheers
and if u think that white fat preacher knows or cares about anyone but his little flock i got some nice land for you to look at .
cheers

fixed - how can you look into to someone's heart and determine their sincerity? everything I've read about the minister suggests he's a voice of reason in this sorry situation.