View Full Version : The Lemond phone call
mcteague
09-21-2007, 07:48 AM
Has anyone listened to this? Wow!!!! Greg comes off a bit tarnished as he lies about recording the call, but the talk about Lance, his personality and drug use will really make you sit up; although I suspected most of this all along. I found this link on the VeloNews forum and I scanned the file after downloading and it looks clean. Seems GL called the Oakley rep, who handled the Lance account, a few years ago to see if she would testify in court. Plenty of dirt gets slung.
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=4D29F43E55D1F580
Tim McTeague
LegendRider
09-21-2007, 07:53 AM
I listened to it. I agree that LeMond's lie to Stephanie McIlvain about not recording the conversation is slimey; nevertheless, I still think LeMond's assessment of Lance is more accurate than the Lance tifosi would have you believe.
Lots of name-calling in the tape: Kevin Livingston = pansy; Hincapie = druggie, etc.
mcteague
09-21-2007, 08:03 AM
I listened to it. I agree that LeMond's lie to Stephanie McIlvain about not recording the conversation is slimey; nevertheless, I still think LeMond's assessment of Lance is more accurate than the Lance tifosi would have you believe.
Lots of name-calling in the tape: Kevin Livingston = pansy; Hincapie = druggie, etc.
Yeah, I think Lemond, having his business threatened by "Lance Inc.", was preparing for war and did what he thought he had to. I continue to think GL has been speaking the truth all along but speaking ill of Armstrong is like doing the same about Scientology, you better prepare for lawsuits. It makes me sick that Greg has gotten death threats over this.
Tim McTeague
LegendRider
09-21-2007, 08:07 AM
Yeah, I think Lemond, having his business threatened by "Lance Inc.", was preparing for war and did what he thought he had to. I continue to think GL has been speaking the truth all along but speaking ill of Armstrong is like doing the same to Scientology, you better prepare for lawsuits. It makes me sick that Greg has gotten death threats over this.
Tim McTeague
Yep. One of the most persuasive arguments LeMond has made is the physiology one. That is, Lance has a documented lower V02 max, yet has was able to produce significantly more power at threshold than LeMond. It's hard to chalk that up to better training and diet. The body has certain limits (I know all too well...)
e-RICHIE
09-21-2007, 08:07 AM
Yeah, I think Lemond, having his business threatened by "Lance Inc.", was preparing for war and did what he thought he had to. I continue to think GL has been speaking the truth all along but speaking ill of Armstrong is like doing the same about Scientology, you better prepare for lawsuits. It makes me sick that Greg has gotten death threats over this.
Tim McTeague
i'd say that summation is 100% spot on atmo.
gl is one of the good guys.
Fixed
09-21-2007, 08:14 AM
classic cat imho
cheers it's friday :beer:
SWorks4me
09-21-2007, 08:18 AM
classic cat imho
cheers it's friday :beer:
how can he be a classic when that was then...this is now?
now, just fat cat.
Fixed
09-21-2007, 08:47 AM
bro the cat rode all the races .. cherry picked not ..imho
cheers
Chris
09-21-2007, 08:50 AM
how can he be a classic when that was then...this is now?
now, just fat cat.
Seriously? Come on...
Big Dan
09-21-2007, 08:56 AM
Believe Greg.
BarryG
09-21-2007, 08:59 AM
GL's a class act.
Someone should put the Betsy interview together with this Lemond conversation on a CD and sell it on the Shopping Channel.
(hey is that Cappuccino behind Greg?)
Steelhead
09-21-2007, 09:02 AM
how can he be a classic when that was then...this is now?
now, just fat cat.
:rolleyes:
SWorks4me
09-21-2007, 09:05 AM
bro the cat rode all the races .. cherry picked not ..imho
cheers
easy when you are on a steady diet of French pastries and drugs.
i will say i miss the days of racers contesting the spring classics, grand tours, and worlds (in the same season). Again, easier done with crepes and blood boosters.
aLexis
09-21-2007, 09:10 AM
So Kevin Livingston is a pansy because he won't say Lance was doping? He and all the others are allegedly too scared to come out because they are making their living off of the sport and don't want to rock the boat. Then a few sentences later, she says that she denied being in the hospital room when asked, because of her ties to Oakley and that she needs a job.
Then she thinks it is cute to laugh about and ponder the health of Hincappie's baby when she is at home taking care of her autisitic son. These two may have Lance's character nailed, but neither of them seem to have too much integrity.
mcteague
09-21-2007, 10:44 AM
So Kevin Livingston is a pansy because he won't say Lance was doping? He and all the others are allegedly too scared to come out because they are making their living off of the sport and don't want to rock the boat. Then a few sentences later, she says that she denied being in the hospital room when asked, because of her ties to Oakley and that she needs a job.
Then she thinks it is cute to laugh about and ponder the health of Hincappie's baby when she is at home taking care of her autisitic son. These two may have Lance's character nailed, but neither of them seem to have too much integrity.
I agree but in the context of normal conversation most people talk a bit of smack that would make them blanch if recorded and released to the public. It seems all parties get muddied here but the basic story seems to jibe with the David Walsh books as I understand them.
Tim McTeague
darylb
09-21-2007, 10:58 AM
i'd say that summation is 100% spot on atmo.
gl is one of the good guys.
It certainly seems accurate that the purpose of the call was to try to compile ammo which I suppose is natural if your business is threatened but after hearing some of that call, I dont know that I would call GL a good guy.
I dont see what makes him any "better" than Lance.
I wish I hadnt listened to it because I lost some respect for Greg. Everyone always says he is so classy but that was far from classy. Sure there was some business preservation behind that call but lots of sour grapes too.
aLexis
09-21-2007, 11:05 AM
It certainly seems accurate that the purpose of the call was to try to compile ammo which I suppose is natural if your business is threatened but after hearing some of that call, I dont know that I would call GL a good guy.
I dont see what makes him any "better" than Lance.
I wish I hadnt listened to it because I lost some respect for Greg. Everyone always says he is so classy but that was far from classy. Sure there was some business preservation behind that call but lots of sour grapes too.
Exactly, I did not learn anything new about Lance. My level of respect for Greg dropped considerably though.
Big Dan
09-21-2007, 11:07 AM
Exactly, I did not learn anything new about Lance. My level of respect for Greg dropped considerably though.
Lance is a good guy too........
:rolleyes:
e-RICHIE
09-21-2007, 11:11 AM
Sure there was some business preservation behind that call but lots of sour grapes too.
that makes him just like all of us atmo.
malcolm
09-21-2007, 11:20 AM
Makes him alot like us. I suspect Lance like most of the rest did whatever he thought he could get away with that would give him an edge. I do think to base your arguement on vO2max is simplistic, alot depends on what you do with those numbers.
bnlkid
09-21-2007, 11:27 AM
Didn't Mel from the show Alice say the best defense is a good offense? I find it strange that Greg Lemond is spending all this time and effort to prove people are doping today. Some of the stuff that is illegal today was legal back in the 80s.(Or at least sophiscated test were not available yet)
I have never really been a fan of Greg Lemong.....or Lance Armstrong. I think the whole doping thing is really getting out of hand. I hope everyone realizes that most people consume products in their everyday life that would be banned in professional cycle.(ie excessive coffee, some cold medicines, donating plasma, etc)
I am not making excuses for the cyclists, but geez, if we were all tested for perfomance enhancing drugs, 80% of would be fired.
I can't stand the fact that there is so much drug/steroid use today, but the only people that should be blamed are us as consumers. As long as we continue to enjoy watching professional sports, atheletes will continue to find a way to win whether legit or not. So before pointing fingers at athletes, we must first look at ourselves.
These are just words of someone that generally speaks in the minority.
michael white
09-21-2007, 11:29 AM
Things were different for each of them, GL, LA or even EM, and I think it's wrong for anyone, insider or outsider, to make generalizations or assumptions about which of them is better or worse or clean or dirty . . . Each represented racing as it was in their respective times, and we enjoy it and take what we can from that, and that's about it.
darylb
09-21-2007, 11:33 AM
Makes him alot like us. I suspect Lance like most of the rest did whatever he thought he could get away with that would give him an edge. I do think to base your arguement on vO2max is simplistic, alot depends on what you do with those numbers.
I guess that is really the point. It makes him a lot like us and we like our "heros" to be so much more than us. I heard someone say once, "dont ever meet your hero, you will only be disapointed." Unfortunately, if we let the hero thing get out of hand, there is a lot of truth to it.
I got a chance to spend about a week with Mickey Mantle some years ago. From what I can tell, he may be the most physically gifted baseball player ever to lace up his spikes but that guy was a mess. A very likable mess but a mess all the same.
Chris
09-21-2007, 12:10 PM
Things were different for each of them, GL, LA or even EM, and I think it's wrong for anyone, insider or outsider, to make generalizations or assumptions about which of them is better or worse or clean or dirty . . . Each represented racing as it was in their respective times, and we enjoy it and take what we can from that, and that's about it.
No - Lance is worse. :) I don't blame Lemond for giving the world of shotgun blast victims hope based on a less than credible fairy tale...
aLexis
09-21-2007, 12:12 PM
Lance is a good guy too........
:rolleyes:
Nope. Never insinuated that. :rolleyes:
I just thought the phone call made Greg look bad. I thought it was funny that he was commenting on Lance's relationship with his ex-wife. Greg is no saint. I've been with him when he had 8 too many drinks and hit on any woman with a pulse. Ick. Ick to the whole thing really
Dave B
09-21-2007, 12:13 PM
didn't they play this in his (Lance's) court case where he won all that money?
I cannot understand how Lance has not gone after Lemond or this lady via lawsuits and so forth.
Seeing how this is how he deals with stuff.
There is some serious hatred for Lance on this.
Oh well.
Go Dave Z
BumbleBeeDave
09-21-2007, 12:52 PM
. . . Greg is no saint. I've been with him when he had 8 too many drinks and hit on any woman with a pulse. Ick. Ick to the whole thing really
This brings up some really entertaining mental images . . .
But I agree with you on the "Ick to the whole thing really" part . . . I'm sick of it all.
BBD
93legendti
09-21-2007, 01:02 PM
Nope. Never insinuated that. :rolleyes:
I just thought the phone call made Greg look bad. I thought it was funny that he was commenting on Lance's relationship with his ex-wife. Greg is no saint. I've been with him when he had 8 too many drinks and hit on any woman with a pulse. Ick. Ick to the whole thing really
Anyone on his ill-fated Lemond-Mercury-Viatel venture probably would not nominate him for saint hood. I remember that after it blew up, the riders blacked out the "D" on the downtube decal of their Lemond bikes.
jimp1234
09-21-2007, 01:09 PM
Just got thru reading some articles in "Ride" and Outside "Go" on Andy the Hampster. Could have missed it but I've never heard of any drug allegations pointed toward him, and probably more importantly to me I've never heard any catty slams against the guy, or have I have ever read about him slamming his competitors, LA, GL, or anyone else. To my mind class act all the way around the track.
davids
09-21-2007, 01:14 PM
that makes him just like all of us atmo.
I don't record my phone calls. ever.
I listened to a few minutes, and began to feel very unclean. aLexis summed it up perfectly: ick.
It's a race to the bottom. Lance may be winning, but he's not the only guy in the race, atmo...
mcteague
09-21-2007, 01:15 PM
Just got thru reading some articles in "Ride" and Outside "Go" on Andy the Hampster. Could have missed it but I've never heard of any drug allegations pointed toward him, and probably more importantly to me I've never heard any catty slams against the guy, or have I have ever read about him slamming his competitors, LA, GL, or anyone else. To my mind class act all the way around the track.
Absolutely agree, Andy is pure class. You can never really tell but he seems like a guy very comfortable in his skin and feels he has little to prove to the world.
Tim McTeague
michael white
09-21-2007, 01:47 PM
It's a race to the bottom. Lance may be winning, but he's not the only guy in the race, atmo...
well, that might be a little harsh. Maybe they're all creeps, druggies and whatnot, but they ain't all bad . . .
manet
09-21-2007, 02:14 PM
well, that might be a little harsh. Maybe they're all creeps, druggies and whatnot, but they ain't all bad . . .
the next foot hold down is full up with tax exempt moralists
Fixed
09-21-2007, 02:19 PM
well, that might be a little harsh. Maybe they're all creeps, druggies and whatnot, but they ain't all bad . . .
bro i resemable that remark
cheers :beer:
SWorks4me
09-21-2007, 02:58 PM
Andy is pure class. Just goes to work, punches the clock and goes home when he's done. Acts like he has been there before.
Davis Phinney...another cool classy guy.
Both those guys knew their talents and accepted the outcomes.
and then needed to take a shower. No class from GL, no reason to respect him, no reason to believe he is "Mr. Clean". The "race to the bottom" is a great tag line.
slowgoing
09-21-2007, 04:09 PM
I don't record my phone calls. ever.
I listened to a few minutes, and began to feel very unclean. aLexis summed it up perfectly: ick.
It's a race to the bottom. Lance may be winning, but he's not the only guy in the race, atmo...
It is against the law in some states to record a call without permission of the other participants.
BumbleBeeDave
09-21-2007, 04:17 PM
. . .wonderin' about that, too, slowgoing. :confused:
BBD
davids
09-21-2007, 04:26 PM
It is against the law in some states to record a call without permission of the other participants.
Independent of that...How about being asked if the call is being recorded, and lying about it?
Fat Robert
09-21-2007, 04:31 PM
I have never met Andy H or Davis P. This is no slam against them, ok?
What some of you guys are missing is that they have no dog in this fight. Does Hampsten Cycles move as many units as Lemond? Do Andy and Steve have to make sure they get theirs within the Trek empire that also serves Lance?
Phinney has nothing to do with this mess, either.
You have two competitive, wealthy, cutthroat when they have to be ex-athletes in a ****fight that places their intertwined business interests at stake. Of course its going to get ugly. As has been said earlier in this thread, I'm guessing a lot of this board would be just as nasty in the same position.
I wouldn't be, only because I don't have the basic greed and balls to be running a major(ish) bike company with my name on the downtube.
Lifelover
09-21-2007, 04:39 PM
and then needed to take a shower. No class from GL, no reason to respect him, no reason to believe he is "Mr. Clean". The "race to the bottom" is a great tag line.
+1000
Seems like a classic case of trying to raise your status by sinking others.
Fixed
09-21-2007, 04:41 PM
honey is that you ?
yes sweetheart
i'm hungry what's for dinner? honey
steak and potatoes and ice cream sweetheart
i'm on my way honey ...zoooom
cheers :beer:
jeffg
09-21-2007, 04:43 PM
Neither of these guys is "one of the good guys." One of cycling's good ol' boys, perhaps, but that is not the same thing
david
09-21-2007, 04:49 PM
Independent of that...How about being asked if the call is being recorded, and lying about it?
yeah. that's the thing that bums me out most.
i kinda, sorta understand greg taping the call.
but lying like that... my admiration for him has taken a hit.
slowgoing
09-21-2007, 06:25 PM
Independent of that...How about being asked if the call is being recorded, and lying about it?
Agreed. It's an "ends justify the means" mentality, same as Pound.
There are no good guys here, just varying degrees of bad.
And if Lemond is willing to lie, how much of a stretch is it to believe that he would be willing to dope as well?
Too Tall
09-21-2007, 06:58 PM
Didn't even blow in her ear first. What a creep. I stopped listening after "no I'm not recording this".
Idiot. Apparently people are expendible in G.L.s book too.
Back to my knitting :rolleyes:
Steelhead
09-21-2007, 10:09 PM
How old is that call? I got tired of it and shut it down. Boring sour grapes - and what was that part about Lance being "so full of anger" ? I've heard he is difficult at best.
Oh well - I'm going riding in the morning thats what matters to me. :)
chrisroph
09-21-2007, 10:50 PM
GL thought he was going to get into a life or death lawsuit with the power money machine and that what happened in the hosp room was going to be relevant. He knew that the oakley rep was there and expected her to be a witness. he knows that people often say one thing in private but when they appear in court and take the oath, they say something else. He recorded the call to impeach her in case she was a witness and changed her story. The tape was insurance. He should have used it only in court. It never should have been played anywhere else. It was a sleazy thing to do but people do such things when it is life or death.
Fixed
09-21-2007, 10:54 PM
bro my boss says you never tell someone your goin to hit them
cheers
William
09-22-2007, 10:03 AM
I didn't need to hear that. :crap:
Greg's rep takes a hit in my book....though he's still slightly above Lance Armstrong (flash to Blackberry beeping.....)
William
Big Dan
09-22-2007, 10:12 AM
Funny thing about the timing of this thread.
The day after another of the Postal/Disco boys goes down in flames.
Wonder were Acevedo and Chechu are now.....
:cool:
Elefantino
09-22-2007, 10:45 AM
Greg is one of the nicest people I've met and took the time to spend time with my then-8-year-old son, who became hooked.
Lance is one of the nicest people I've met and spoke on a panel of cancer suvivors with my then-81-year-old mom. Tears were in his eyes as she spoke.
That said, each of them has a d*ck side because they're both Type A personalities who were driven to conquer a sport against a tremendous set of odds. And, in their post-cycling years, each has become a bit of a public *ss. Greg is paranoid. Lance is paranoid. Greg thinks people are out to get him. Lance thinks people are out to get him. Greg records phone conversations. Lance hires an army of very threatening lawyers.
And so it goes.
sellsworth
09-22-2007, 11:52 AM
I think that it's interesting that many people assume that LeMond didn't use drugs because he takes a strong public stance against them. One of my cycling friends here in Reno used to ride with LeMond and was absolutely convinced that he was taking steroids, in fact he says that it was openly discussed. My friend attributes the steroid use to LeMond's rapid decline in the early 1990s rather that problems with mitochondria production. Of course what my friend says doesn't mean too much but why are so many people convinced that LeMond was clean?
e-RICHIE
09-22-2007, 11:56 AM
One of my cycling friends here in Reno used to ride with LeMond and was absolutely convinced that he was taking steroids, in fact he says that it was openly discussed.
is that on tape atmo?
soulspinner
09-22-2007, 12:37 PM
the next foot hold down is full up with tax exempt moralists
:p
I think that it's interesting that many people assume that LeMond didn't use drugs because he takes a strong public stance against them.
Can you say Larry Craig?
-Ray
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