Legend and Ottrott Owners.

[bnlkid]

I have been a long time lurker and very seldom poster to this forum, but I need support from my Serotta friends. Even though none of you know me, I feel like I know you from reading the forums for the last 5 years.

I own a 2000 CSI, 2002 Legend and just purchased an Ottrott this year. Now here is where I need the support of the forum:

Has anyone else that owns both the Legend and Ottrott found they prefer the ride of the Legend? While I am not disappointed in the Ottrott purchase, I am a bit disappointed in myself that I prefer the ride quality of the Legend. ;)

Both bikes were built stiff and both bikes ride like I had them built, but there is something about hearing the hum of the Legend on smooth roads that really brings a smile to my face. :)

I would describe the difference as the Legend glides along the road while the Ottrott floats. All the road feel has been muted with the Ottrott.

I need to re-iterate that I love both bikes, but wanted to share my experience in case other Legend lovers are thinking about upgrading to the Ottrott.

Both bikes will get many miles, but my original intention when purchasing the Ottrott was to have the one bike to end my bike lust. I forgot the fact that I like having the different types of rides. The CSI doesn't get ridden much as I purchased it from a former bike shop owner and can't quite get it setup comfortably for me.

Thanks for listening. I look forward to the discussion that will take place.

[swoop]

you're describing the difference in characteristics that are typically inherent to what ti feels like and what carbon or carbon/ti feels like.
i can only be general.. but both materials do convey different sensations.
neither is better or worse.... its subjective.

but vibrations do travel along the grain of the materials differently and this can convey different sensations to the rider.


its just another fold in the the gestalt.

there is something very special about an all ti bike with a carbon fork. there is nothing else that creates that specific set of sensations.

same goes for any material... its just a matter of what you put on your popcorn.

i love ti
i love steel
i love aluminum
i love carbon and ti...

its just subtle... and within the geo stuff and wheel preferences and what not. and the confounding factors of tube selection add some more flavor too.

[Jeff N.]

The Legend ride and the Ottrott ride are going to be different. Both good, but different. That you prefer the Legend's ride more is just a matter of your personal taste. Trade off now and again, knowing you're getting the best of both worlds. Jeff N.

[Smiley]

"Both bikes will get many miles, but my original intention when purchasing the Ottrott was to have the one bike to end my bike lust. I forgot the fact that I like having the different types of rides. The CSI doesn't get ridden much as I purchased it from a former bike shop owner and can't quite get it setup comfortably for me."

I guess my 6 bikes are too much for me too, seriously I love my Ti Hors categorie and its much different then my Uniscasi Steel. Some days I want steel and some especialy on the rougher stuff I want Ti. Nothing wrong with that !

ps: give that CSI a real shot , you may find out that you've got an even bigger problem chosing bikes :)

[mikki]

" but my original intention when purchasing the Ottrott was to have the one bike to end my bike lust. :)


I am beginning to think that one bike cannot possibly completely satisfy "bike lust". Has anyone had that happen?

[Sandy]

I am beginning to think that one bike cannot possibly completely satisfy "bike lust". Has anyone had that happen?

My CSI did. But it was too small, so I got a larger bike- my Ottrott ST. The Ottrott did and still does, but I may get the all steel CDA to have two bikes. It will be designed a little differently than the Ottrott St- more utility.


Satisfied Sandy

[davids]

Before I bought a bike in late 2005, I rode lots of different bikes. My two favorites were the Fierté Ti and the Nove. The biggest difference between the two was the quality of the feedback from the road. The Fierté's character was more of a velvet buzz, the Nove's more of a creamy buzz. I ultimately decided I liked the Nove's feedback more. It sounds like your preference runs the other way.

Neither is better, each is different.

[Ahneida Ride]

I need a big bike to demo. at least a 64, 65 is better.

My Legend is a 64. I love it ..... should I say that again ?

Now I always believed that the Ottrott was hype, Till I demoed one.
Ny LBS has a large Ottrott for sale.

I took the Ottrott for a 4 mile demo. The ride is truly magnificent.

Now which is better?????

It can't be answered. each rider will have a different perspective.

But I arrived at your identical conclusion.

The Legend glides and the Ottrott floats.


PS, the wheels are identical so, wheels is not a factor.

[SPOKE]

i hope that i NEVER find "THE" bike. i really like being able to ride different bikes and appreciating the differences. :)

[rwsaunders]

I am beginning to think that one bike cannot possibly completely satisfy "bike lust". Has anyone had that happen?

Didn't Jimmy Carter have "lust" issues too?

[Ahneida Ride]

I've heard from many that the Legend is the best all around bike in their
stable. ;)


I would like to spend a few years deciding which is the superior frame. :D

[dirtdigger88]

I've heard from many that the Legend is the best all around bike in their
stable. ;)


a Legend DKS is even better :D

Jason

[Ray]

I am beginning to think that one bike cannot possibly completely satisfy "bike lust". Has anyone had that happen?
Pretty much. I got a Spectrum ti about two and a half years or so ago and have three seasons on it. It was love at first ride and after a year, I noticed, and mentioned here, that I thought my bike lust was gone. I was assured it was temporary. Maybe, but it's still gone after three full seasons on one primary bike. I have a secondary bike that I like a lot too, for a different type of ride, but 80-90% of my rides are on one bike. And I don't want another one.

Maybe this will change someday, but I don't have any indication of that yet.

I've had bikes that I REALLY dug before and rode pretty much all the time. But I never stopped looking and wondering what else was possible. I like the way this bike rides so frickin' much that if more is possible, I don't think I want to know about it.

-Ray

[CNY rider]

I've spewed this story enough that I should just bookmark it, but here goes:

New Legend 3 years ago. Drooled on the Ottrott at the shop, thought it was too expensive. Got the Legend. Loved it. Still love it.

Used but perfect fit for me Ottrott came up for sale on the Classifieds 2 years ago. Couldn't pass it up. Thought the Legend might be diminished by the Ottrott's presence. Wanted in every way to love the Ottrott. Unhappy ending: The Ottrott now lives somewhere in Europe. I didn't love it. Found the road feel and presence of the Legend superior and moved on.

That's just life. Some of us like the feel of Ti better than anything else, even if there's something else fancier and more expensive out there.

Go enjoy yourself. :beer:

[Avispa]

The Legend glides and the Ottrott floats.

I have both bikes and now a MeiVici as well... What can one say about the MeiVici? That it glidoats!? :D

For me sometimes the "gliding" can be a hindrance if I am doing a long ride or if the road is not as smooth... In a long ride (60+ miles for me), I rather float than glide. Floating will be more energy saving... But if I were to be climbing a lot, which I don't do where I live (FL), I think I would prefer gliding vs floating!

Enjoy both bikes, they are in their own ways, great!

A!

[slowgoing]

Stock Legend ST and Ottrott, same size. Love the Legend, one of my all time favorites. The Ottrott is smoother but too stiff in the drivetrain, doesn't give anything back, saps the strength out of my legs, especially climbing.

[C5 Snowboarder]

I ride a Legend - 2007 size 63 and it is a wonderful ride, have not rode a Ottrot, like to but have not found a large one to test. But this thread sounds like a snowboard discussion or automobile discussion. I have many snowboards but find two of them top notch rides but quite a bit different. Love em both and snow conditions determine which gets the nod. the 178 Race board is a joy to ride but on the groomers only where the 179 all mountain rides or glides like what some have described an Ottrot. Like automobiles -- depending on what you are doing with it same as a bike ride I suppose. My SUV BMW is a great drive on most days but if it is sunny and a smooth widing road I want the Corvette. So Maybe it is the same with the Legend -- on a mountain climb smooth rode and high speed turns I can't imagine a bike more suited for the job.

[link]

It's like having one pair of skis ...I'd rather not.

Sorry - I'm jonsin' for some freshies.

[vaxn8r]

The Legend is a great bike. Mine is all ti and I wanted it that way. I also ride all steel and Al and all CF bikes. They are all different but superb in their own way. I have owned other bikes of each material that were not good for me. The lesson being it's not the material, it's the design. Bottom line, don't write off any particular material bike because you rode one once which behaved a certain way you didn't like. In all liklihood it wasn't the material but the design didn't match your needs.

[CNY rider]

Stock Legend ST and Ottrott, same size. Love the Legend, one of my all time favorites. The Ottrott is smoother but too stiff in the drivetrain, doesn't give anything back, saps the strength out of my legs, especially climbing.

+1

This is a very good description of how I felt about the two bikes.

[Frank Draper]

Thanks to all who contributed to this discussion. I also own an all Ti Legend Custom. The year before I purchased my Legend I rode many different makes and models of other bikes before making my decision. I like the ride of all Ti because it is most like a steel and softens the rode chatter. I too have been thinking of purchasing another bike so I can have "something different" to ride. I will be visiting the local shops and again trying as many different bikes as they will allow. A new Serotta is a possibility. So, this thread gives me insight into the different ride qualities of the available products.

I did inquire about the 1999 CSI that Saunders had in the classifieds. I pondered too long and it is sold. :( I tend to be obsessive about major purchases. That can be good and bad.

Frank

[saab2000]

I have both bikes and now a MeiVici as well... What can one say about the MeiVici? That it glidoats!? :D



A Meivici neither glides, nor floats. Nor glidoats.

A Meivici gloats.

[sg8357]

[QUOTE=bnlkid]Both bikes will get many miles, but my original intention when purchasing the Ottrott was to have the one bike to end my bike lust[QUOTE]

And the Gods laughed a mighty laugh.
One bike rule to them all ?, I think not grasshopper.

Tho' at pactour the guy said desire to buy a new bike was one
of warning signs of over training. Lots of over training on the olde forum here.


Scott G.

[Floyd Dakil]

My favorite is the Attack. It's two pounds lighter than the other bikes and lets me feel the road but with none of the vibration of the Ottrott. The Ottrott is kind of like riding on rails. It's smooth but unexciting, since you cannot feel the road. There's also a substantial amount of vibration with the Ottrott ST, which is especially noticeable after riding the Attack.

I love the feedback of the Legend, and it turns more easily than the Ottrott. It rides like a racing bike, whereas the Ottrott is more of a touring bike. I like the Ottrott, but it is not the ultimate machine that Serotta makes it out to be.

I considered buying a Meivici rather than the Attack. But there's really no difference in the ride quality. So why pay three thousand dollars more? You're really only getting the option of tube angle and frame finish for that extra price. My Attack is red with white background, and I'm very happy with that.

Bottom line: My Attack is the superior ride. I like the Legend second, and the Ottrott third. By the way, I bought the Legend for $3,000 at the local bike shop after it had served as a rental for several years. There's nothing wrong with buying a used titanium frame, although the same is not true of carbon frames, which could have undetectable hairline fissures.

[dave thompson]

Both bikes will get many miles, but my original intention when purchasing the Ottrott was to have the one bike to end my bike lust

And the Gods laughed a mighty laugh.
One bike rule to them all ?, I think not grasshopper.

Tho' at pactour the guy said desire to buy a new bike was one
of warning signs of over training. Lots of over training on the olde forum here.


Scott G.
I live to overtrain! :D

[SoCalSteve]

My favorite is the Attack. It's two pounds lighter than the other bikes and lets me feel the road but with none of the vibration of the Ottrott. The Ottrott is kind of like riding on rails. It's smooth but unexciting, since you cannot feel the road. There's also a substantial amount of vibration with the Ottrott ST, which is especially noticeable after riding the Attack.

I love the feedback of the Legend, and it turns more easily than the Ottrott. It rides like a racing bike, whereas the Ottrott is more of a touring bike. I like the Ottrott, but it is not the ultimate machine that Serotta makes it out to be.
I considered buying a Meivici rather than the Attack. But there's really no difference in the ride quality. So why pay three thousand dollars more? You're really only getting the option of tube angle and frame finish for that extra price. My Attack is red with white background, and I'm very happy with that.

Bottom line: My Attack is the superior ride. I like the Legend second, and the Ottrott third. By the way, I bought the Legend for $3,000 at the local bike shop after it had served as a rental for several years. There's nothing wrong with buying a used titanium frame, although the same is not true of carbon frames, which could have undetectable hairline fissures.

I find that my Ottrott is very neutral. This is not a bad thing. It is the bike I choose to ride for longer and more technical rides. It does everything very well, and yes, not too exciting.

Again, I dont think this is a bad thing as it serves a great purpose. I dont race and never will. If I did, the Ottrott would not be my first choice as an out and out race bike.

[gregrams]

Bikes are like women...you can't have just one. :D

NO BAMA
Keep the Change

[palincss]

The Ottrott is smoother but too stiff in the drivetrain, doesn't give anything back, saps the strength out of my legs, especially climbing.

Interesting. That sounds just like what Jan Heine wrote about in Bicycle Quarterly that he called "planing". Many here dumped all over the notion and said it couldn't possibly exist...

[Ahneida Ride]

A Luminary stated at the TdFL .... and I'll paraphrase.

Serotta makes all great bikes.
One model is not necessarily better then the other.

I think he was trying to say that it really depends on personal preference.

For some a CDA or Fierte will be their most treasured Serotta.
and with very good reason indeed. Others a Legend/Ottrott/Mevici.

I have become convinced that there is no "best" Serotta.
All of Ben's creations are worthy of that accolade.

[victoryfactory]

I have a secondary bike that I like a lot too

-Ray


Now I have another new disease.... SECONDARY BIKE LUST

VF

[jrmerson]

Bikes are like women...you can't have just one. :D

NO BAMA
Keep the Change

Ya know this thread has been around a long time and keeps popping back to the surface. It was a major factor in my purchase of my Legend SE this past winter, that and a good deal from my lbs. It sits in my bike room with my CDA and it primarily my Sunday bike. It is so good I don't want to get used to it. The CDA is ridden every other day and I love it too. Kinda like having a wife and a girlfriend. That and they seem to get along well.
:banana:

[eddief]

i get bored too fast. now still riding uprights but waiting for this one to arrive. Second bent in less than two months. Not looking good for the next 8 years.

[Ahneida Ride]

Actually for me, one woman is more then enough. ;) Still looking.
I am monogamous.

But I would not mind several bikes and cars if I had the frns.

I'd settle for addditions of a Porsche 911 and a Kelly Bedford.

[Pete Serotta]

The bike that is the best for you is the one that makes you want to ride and puts a smile on your face!!! It can be a SEROTTA (hopefully so), Bedford, Goodrich, Hampsten kellogg, Kirk, Sachs, Tournesel (or one of each). :)

Luckily we have so many options. Just because a bike cost more does not mean it is better for what you want it for. We must first decide what we want in a bike/ride and then quantify it.

Going to events allows us to see and often test various rides until we find that "SMILEY FACE" bike.

The Ottrott is a different ride that a LEGEND. Folks still see me most of the time on my 8 year old LEGEND. (Yeah I know that I was on my OTTROTT at the Ramble and I loved it - - as I do the BEDFORD that SMILEY is after me to leave at his house ;) ;) )

Ride what gets that smile!!!!

[jsfoster]

Didn't Jimmy Carter have "lust" issues too?
that was in his heart. With bike lust one can have a harem :cool:

-Jon

[Dekonick]

a Legend DKS is even better :D

Jason

Thats why I own 2!!!

[Dekonick]

A Luminary stated at the TdFL .... and I'll paraphrase.

Serotta makes all great bikes.
One model is not necessarily better then the other.

I think he was trying to say that it really depends on personal preference.

For some a CDA or Fierte will be their most treasured Serotta.
and with very good reason indeed. Others a Legend/Ottrott/Mevici.

I have become convinced that there is no "best" Serotta.
All of Ben's creations are worthy of that accolade.

Sadly, Ray, you are mistaken. There is a BEST Serotta. Unfortunately it is no longer made.

DKS.

[Pete Serotta]

You have been drinking the SMILEY cool aid :beer:

Sadly, Ray, you are mistaken. There is a BEST Serotta. Unfortunately it is no longer made.

DKS.

[happycampyer]

Luckily we have so many options. Just because a bike cost more does not mean it is better for what you want it for. We must first decide what we want in a bike/ride and then quantify it.So true. I don't have a Legend, but I ride my VaMoots more than any of my other bikes, most of which cost more (including an Ottrott ST and a Look 595). The Ottrott definitely has the smoothest and quietest ride, but an all ti bike has a liveliness that is hard to describe. Who knows, I may end up back on a steel bike...

[Dekonick]

I have owned both a standard legend, and hors categorie. I loved both of them. The hors categorie (a legend with a dks rear...) is such a special ride that I bought a second - just in case.

I sold the legend.

BTW - the legend was a fantastic bike. IF I did not have the fortune to own a DKS, I would still have that legend.

Ask anyone who has owned a properly fitted DKS and they will tell you - literally - it corners like it is on rails...

I feel comfortable on this (DKS) bike at 45, 50+ mph - the legend was close, but did not have the same grip (same wheels, same tires...)

Mind you - I KNOW there are plenty of y'all that ride faster and feel confident...I believe you would be more confident on a DKS.

Best rear to date... :)

:banana:

[Ahneida Ride]

Sadly, Ray, you are mistaken. There is a BEST Serotta. Unfortunately it is no longer made.

DKS.

Ok, I concede, The Dave Kirk Suspension, DKS, is a brilliant piece of
engineering and perhaps the most innovative cycling invention in the last 50 years. :beer:

I could have had a DKS for only 300 frn more. :crap:

I had the frns .... I just kept going back and forth and finally settled on
the straight stays.

Bigman sold a flawless 63 HC a while back. Just a bit too small for me. :crap:

[pauly]

I was lucky enough to land Henry's (BigMan) Hors Cat several years ago. I'm 6'3" and it fits like a glove.

I'll have to post a recent pic. It is a very, very special bike (& I have a Legend too). Its the real deal - no cool aid.

[Ti Designs]

I am beginning to think that one bike cannot possibly completely satisfy "bike lust". Has anyone had that happen?

Yes. It's a Serotta La Corsa (the cheap custom that fell off the bottom of their offerings). It fits me, when I turn the pedals it goes, when I pull on the brakes it stops - what more could I ask? I've tried many other bikes, didn't see the point in changing. Recently I was told by a rep of one of the bigger bike companies that they wanted me on their bike, and they were going to give me one. I have a bike, I like it, I don't need another - no bike lust here.

[dogdriver]

"Recently I was told by a rep of one of the bigger bike companies that they wanted me on their bike, and they were going to give me one. "

Hey Ti-- can I have the one they were going to give you?-- I'll bet I'm even slower than you are...

Cheers, Chris

[Ahneida Ride]

I was lucky enough to land Henry's (BigMan) Hors Cat several years ago. I'm 6'3" and it fits like a glove.

I'll have to post a recent pic. It is a very, very special bike (& I have a Legend too). Its the real deal - no cool aid.

Pauly

You got the deal of a lifetime. That HC was perfect.
I am so Jealous !!!!!! :p

Post a few Picts Eh ?

Ps ... I heard rumors that some version of the La Corsa may be returning.

[dandatt]

I have a CSI made for someone else from ~ 2003, and my custom Ottrott, designed/spec'd by and fitted by Paraic. The CS1 dimensions are crazy close to the Ottrott, save the sloping top tube. While I love the classic beauty of the CS1, which is my everyday am ride, and foul weather bike (I had it frame saver'd), it cannot come close to the ride quality of the Ottrott. Again, I have every deminsion dialed in, right down to the same bars, pedals & saddle (different wheels; alum box 32 spoke customs on the CSi, and Zipp Firecrest 404's on the Ottrot. If anything the Zipps should make the ride WAY stiffer. The ride is soo amazingly smooth on the Ottrot, it's not even close.
I thikn what you (and I to some degree..) are sensing is due to the adjustment and adoration that you developed with your first Serotta.
That and the Ottrott being "the best riding bike in the world".
:bike:

[gone]

So you dug up a four year old thread to disagree with somebody?

[duke]

Twilight zone....
duke

[dekindy]

So you dug up a four year old thread to disagree with somebody?

So much for taking it easy on a guy when he makes his first post. Just the kind of sensitivity that makes this such a special place! :rolleyes: If you had noticed it was his first post I guess you would have probably told him to go back to lurking. :crap:

[Sandy]

So you dug up a four year old thread to disagree with somebody?

Difficult to determine the motivation of a post, especially if you don't even know the person. Sometimes old threads are rekindled, which is not that unusual. I see nothing whatsoever wrong with his post. He gave an opinion, based on his perception of the bikes. The post interested me.

I have a 2004 Ottrott ST and had a 1998 CSI. My perception of the ride of the CSI and the Ottrott is inconsistent with dandatt's and many others who feel the Ottrott possesses a smooth ride. I anticipated that to be the case when I bought the Ottrott but did not find it that way. The CSI's ride was probably smoother than my Otrrott's ride. But I used different wheels, tires (make and width), psi, tubing (firm for the Ottrott, if I remember correctly), stems, handlebars etc, and quite importantly fit/specs and the F1 fork.

I do not find my Ottrott being a smooth riding bike...Extremely efficient in transferring pedal input to forward motion (more so than the CSI) with a very lively and lighter feel than the CSI. The CSI did what you asked it to do in a very linear, balanced manner, with a great stable, solid, "glued to the road" feeling. The Ottrott is just as stable, more responsive, quicker feeling, and not the least bit smoother, at least to me.

My perceptions are dissimilar to dandatt's, but I doubt he (or she) will make a negative comment about my post as you did for his.



Sandy

[slowgoing]

Might be a nice time to revive the thread and see if there are any other contributors. Both bikes are still being made...

[jlwdm]

Sure we don't need negativity, but a post directed to the OP who has only posted three times, and the last time 3 years ago, is ???????? to say the least. Not sure what the right word is for ????????.

Jeff

[firerescuefin]

Think the ?????? Word(s) we should be displaying are class and grace

[veloduffer]

I have a CSI made for someone else from ~ 2003, and my custom Ottrott, designed/spec'd by and fitted by Paraic. The CS1 dimensions are crazy close to the Ottrott, save the sloping top tube. While I love the classic beauty of the CS1, which is my everyday am ride, and foul weather bike (I had it frame saver'd), it cannot come close to the ride quality of the Ottrott. Again, I have every deminsion dialed in, right down to the same bars, pedals & saddle (different wheels; alum box 32 spoke customs on the CSi, and Zipp Firecrest 404's on the Ottrot. If anything the Zipps should make the ride WAY stiffer. The ride is soo amazingly smooth on the Ottrot, it's not even close.
I thikn what you (and I to some degree..) are sensing is due to the adjustment and adoration that you developed with your first Serotta.
That and the Ottrott being "the best riding bike in the world".
:bike:

Welcome to the forum. I agree with your assessment of the Ottrott. I almost sold mine to pay for a Parlee and glad that I didn't. It has a different geometry than the Parlee and is a great all-day rider, especially if it fits well. Mine is outfitted with HED C2 wheels and that helps smooth out the ride even more. CF-Ti combinations are out of favor in most of the bike world but it might turnaround. For a while it looked like steel would die when cycling became enamoured with ti and aluminum, but those "in the know" dig steel. :D

[dekindy]

Think the ?????? Word(s) we should be displaying are class and grace

I started a reply that somehow could not be posted but you said it so much better that I will just refer to your response and Sandy's. Well said. Everything about the thread is timeless IMHO.

[gone]

Just the kind of sensitivity that makes this such a special place!Right back at you. :crap:
If you had noticed it was his first postI did notice.
I guess you would have probably told him to go back to lurking.No, I'd have told him to start a new thread, introduce himself and give his impressions on riding an Otrott vs. a Legend.

[dekindy]

[QUOTE=gone]Right back at you. :crap:
I did notice.
No, I'd have told him to start a new thread, introduce himself and give his impressions on riding an Otrott vs. a Legend.[/QUOT

?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????????????? I don't understand your explanation. You did notice that it was his first post? If we get some comments about how great your response was then I will stand corrected. Otherwise, take a look at the other responses to your comment and tell me again that I am wrong instead of apologizing to dandatt.

[DRZRM]

Guy gets a custom Ottrott, googles his bike, finds this thread, and rather than being a special flower and starting a new thread all about him chimes in to an existing conversation, probably without even noticing when it was originally (or last) posted.

Nothing to criticize there, not sure why the complaint. He's saving the planet by recycling the pixels instead of opening a new pack.


I did notice.
No, I'd have told him to start a new thread, introduce himself and give his impressions on riding an Otrott vs. a Legend.

[firerescuefin]

Right back at you. :crap:
I did notice.
No, I'd have told him to start a new thread, introduce himself and give his impressions on riding an Otrott vs. a Legend.


....this is sword you're going to throw yourself on. Cmon brother. Know your original intent may not have been to be a "big meany", but own it, welcome the guy, and move on down the road.

I completely agree with the others that it's poor form to respond to someone's first post (or really anyone's post) in such a manner.

[gone]

....this is sword you're going to throw yourself on. Cmon brother. Know your original intent may not have been to be a "big meany", but own it, welcome the guy, and move on down the road.

I completely agree with the others that it's poor form to respond to someone's first post (or really anyone's post) in such a manner.
I do own it. You're right it wasn't my original intent to crap on the guy, only to point out that disagreeing with something someone said four years ago who probably wasn't even around anymore didn't make a lot of sense. It's cool he actually used the search function, few people do, but it'd been even cooler IMHO if he'd have introduced himself, referenced the old thread and given his impressions of riding both.

[AngryScientist]

back on topic -

My all Ti Legend rocks.

[gone]

back on topic -

My all Ti Legend rocks.

As do my Legend and Legend ST. Since I own two Legends, the Otrott vs. Legend topic is one that I find interesting, especially the opinions of those who've owned both and the reasons why they come down in favor of one vs. another.

[AngryScientist]

i think wheels in particular could easily skew someones comparison test. the same bike can ride very differently with different wheelsets, and even different tires/tire pressure. to fairly compare two bikes, it is really essential to ride them both with the same wheels/tires/pressure, among other things....

[gone]

i think wheels in particular could easily skew someones comparison test. the same bike can ride very differently with different wheelsets, and even different tires/tire pressure. to fairly compare two bikes, it is really essential to ride them both with the same wheels/tires/pressure, among other things....
Agreed. As I said, I've got a Legend and Legend ST. I've always been a bit curious to see if I could isolate the behavior of the seat stays and pivot bearing on the ST. The wheels on both are similar (32 spoke) but different rims and tires and a different saddle so it's difficult to impossible to say any perceived difference is down to the seat stays even with my finely calibrated butt :D There is also a small difference in geometry (the ST is custom to me, the Legend is a stock 60x60) that could account for a difference in feel.

Even if I were to set them up exactly the same, it's difficult to impossible to be exacting enough (same route, same speed and line on the curves, etc) to argue convincingly that one feels better or worse than the other.

Nevertheless, I think the Otrott vs. Legend topic is an interesting one. Describing the differences is somewhat more legitimate when somebody owns or has owned both and perhaps others are more discerning than I am.

[laupsi]

do not own nor have I ever owned/ridden a full Ti bike but I do have an Ottrott and it really is the best riding bike I own/ever owned. (owned lots of steel, aluminum and combination of sorts of alum/carbon together)

[SEABREEZE]

I own two Ti's and am a very happy camper. Never ridden a Ottrott, so I dont know what I am missing. Would like to try, but may become cosltly.. lol

[tv_vt]

I don't own an Ottrott, but I do own a Fierte IT. I don't own a Legend, but I do own a Merckx all-ti frame. The Merckx is older generation than the Fierte. I enjoy both of these bikes. The all-ti Merckx feels more durable to me, and it's the one I ride through the winter in all sorts of crap. I say durable because I don't have to worry about the clearcoat on the carbon tubes getting pitted by sand on the road like on the Fierte and other carbon tubed bikes.

The Fierte is smooth, but not at all flexy. I have a pretty heavy fork on it - an Alpha Q Z-Pro, with a thicker walled steerer tube. The frame is a 60cm with over 300mm of steerer tube, so I wanted some stiffness there. But maybe with an Edge fork, it would feel differently. It rides 'classy,' very neutral and elegant. That's the only way I can put it. It somehow bespeaks Serotta quality. It's a great bike for longer rides. Maybe not 'flashy' enough for short fast rides, but the neutral ride is very supportive for longer rides. For those rides, you don't want a bike that talks back to you. You want a bike that disappears under you.