OT:....talking 'bout Chiropractors

[azrider]

Never believed in them.

Don't know if it was my parents raising me saying they were witch doctors or not but i'll go ahead and blame environmental conditions as the reason why i never gave them proper ado.

Fast forward to visiting a massage therapist couple weeks ago who works at a Chiropractor's office. One thing led to another and i found myself on the doctors examining table. I told him i was a cyclist so he went to work on my legs and found 1)leg length discrepancy (which i knew about but didn't tell him) 2)major muscle contusion on left thigh (from accident falling off of railroad ties as a kid and parents treatment: "rub some dirt on it, you'll be fine") and 3) major scar tissue buildup

He [somehow] talked me into treatment using the Graston technique to get rid of all the scar tissue buildup, promising increased flexibility, strength and power- "hell yeah buddy get to it," right ?

Now i don't bruise easily but so far after two treatments he's got my thigh (one that has been messed up my whole life) black and blue from bruising and my right leg around the knee black and blue from working on my Iliotiabl band (yet another problem area i've had in past).

Anyone else had this Graston technique used on them? Results? Thoughts?

Thanks in advance for any sharing.

[e-RICHIE]

my wife aka the lovely deb is a licensed massage therapist
and teaches it as well. what you experience is normal, but
if you're new to it all it does seem invasive. trust me, it's
going to help you atmo.

[azrider]

what you experience is normal, but
if you're new to it all it does seem invasive.

Seeing how I don't bruise all that much and am blue in some areas I'm finding it very invasive. My body is no doubt 'reacting' to his methods, i just want to know its helping.

Thanks e-RICHIE.

[Ken Robb]

I had a similar massage using olive oil and a Chinese porceline spoon--no kidding. It was done by a vaery qualified masseur at my physical therapist's clinic. He explained that the smooth edge of the spoon allowed him to exert a LOT more pressure than just his hands/fingers. No lie. You should have seen the looks on the faces my surgeon and his nurse when I saw them that afternoon. My shoulder was reddish purple. During the massage I could feel "pebbles" reduced to "grains of sand" under the edge of the spoon so it must have done some good.

The surgeon pronounced me "cured" and said to keep strengthening the shoulder through exercise and that there was nothing more to gain through massage and PT so I haven't had any more spoon jobs. It sounds promising though. I wonder what happened to Rolfing?

[Dekonick]

I had a similar experience in Belgium - My therapist had a different name for it. She essentially used a screwdriver looking device that had a rounded tip (kinda like a really small spoon) and pulverized muscle spasms with it. Hurt like hell - but it really made a difference in the long run. She told me that essentially she was breaking up scar tissue and breaking down deposits. I don't know sheit about this stuff, but it worked for me.

Hurts, and makes you look purple and blue.

[Ginger]

Times when I have had scar tissue broken up without a followup strength and stretching routine for the area have been painful but minimally helpful.

Those sessions that had both scar tissue and an assigned follow up regime of strengthening and stretching were truly helpful.

Find a professional who can do both the scar tissue breakup and give you a good strengthening and stretching after care routine. Generally I've found good Physical Therapists to be most useful in both breaking up scar tissue and assigning appropriate follow up. A good, experienced massage therapist can pretty much do the same.

[rinconryder]

I had Graston done to me. It hurt like hell and didn't do a damn thing except make me hurt more. I walked into a PT to get some strecthing done and before I knew it I was getting adjusted, tweaked and cracked every which way. In my opinion, it only agrivated the conditions I was experiencing (lower back pain), but it may have just been the PT himself not knowing what he was doing.

Bottom line - I encourage massage (deep tissue) as a way of maintaining your body, but I don't trust chiropractors, especially when they are snapping my neck like they are Steven Seagul.

[jhcakilmer]

If anyone really takes the time and reads into, and explores the true philosophy and practical use of chiropractics, or osteopathic manipulation it does make logical sense. The form that the body takes, whether natural or dysfunctional will effect the function. I'm not prescribing that every issue may be remedied by these types of manual techniques, but I think it can be tailored to each individual to help improve their state of health.

As far as safety goes, I think this is probably the biggest falsehoods that circulates concerning these "cracking" techniques, or as we (osteopathic physicians and physical therapist)call them HVLA (High Velocity Low Amplitude). A chiropractor pays a fraction of the malpractice, of even a family practitioner, so if it was so dangerous wouldn't insurance companies be charging more? They're definitely not going to loose money! You are exponentially more likely to be injured from a medication error.....at least that's what the statistics show.

Also, that "cracking" that you hear is just the release of built up gases in the synovial fluid within the joint capsule. Also, if you don't like those techniques you can ask them to use others, such as Muscle Energy, Still's Technique, Myofacial Release, etc......they have many tools within the box.

Also, like any health-care professional if you don't think your getting the appropriate care, then move on, but be patient, many of these manual treatments will work, but they take time.

[Avispa]

Anyone else had this Graston technique used on them? Results? Thoughts?

I don't know that my Chiro uses that technique, but he surely keeps me pain free and feeling good most of the time. I also have seen acupuncturists that have helped me be 100% allergy free and have alleviated shoulder or pack pain almost 100%.

I trust alternative medicine (chiropractor, acupuncture, etc.) very much... But one has to find good Docs that can honestly tell you whether their help will do it and when you have to see a "regular" doctor. A combination of both doing their best would be ideal.

The one thing I hate about regular Docs is that they want to solve a lot of things with drugs, that otherwise could be solved with alternative methods.

A!

[Skrawny]

Doesn't work for me and I don't believe in it.
However, I am an allopathic MD ("regular doc") and a big skeptic.

I believe strongly in the mind's ability to effect the body. That is how a placebo works. I believe that most alternative medicines work in the same way: belief in the intervention causes the change more than the intervention itself.

Discussing this topic is akin to talking politics or religion at a cocktail party; almost no one's mind will change and it is bound to get someone riled up.

Suffice it to say: If it works for you and it is worth the $, keep doing it.
-s

[znfdl]

Here is a picture of my chiropractor. To top things off, she is a 4 day adventure racer.

[Too Tall]

Where you sleepin' tonight ZNFNDL??? Just askin' :rolleyes:

Deep Tissue work requires a great deal of skill not just brute force and what MAM said about followup...that is a requirement or the work is a waste or worse.

[Ginger]

Doesn't work for me and I don't believe in it.


You know...after spending a lot of time in PT for different injuries, I think Skrawny is right to a point.

Even physical therapy has a "you get out of it what you put into it" bent. And, while all physical therapists may be created equal, some use different protocols than others. I've found manual manipulation physical therapists to be very effective *for me.* My doc even says: If you want to go to PT for X, I'll send you because I've seen you do so well with it.

On the other hand I've seen people spend a lot of time in the same PT offices for lesser injuries than what I have and not have any improvement, they just weren't following the protocol themselves and they were re-injuring themselves on a regular basis.

I sort of feel sorry for doctors and PTs and other medical types. They only have control of what the patient does in the office. They have no control on whether the patient follows the recommended protocol when they leave the office. The patients don't take their meds on time, they don't finish the dosage, they don't do their exercises outside of the office, etc. etc. I've found the best way to succeed with any treatment is follow-through follow-through follow-through on *my* part.

When I have an injury, I can't shorten the time I take to heal, but I can make the most of the time I'm waiting.

And I was thinking about this thread while I was riding the other day and the one thing I tell other people who are considering PT or other treatment is:
Don't do something you're not comfortable doing or that you think isn't turning out "right." It's very possible that it isn't happening as it should.

Personally, if I had really heavy bruising after scar release massage, (I expect some bruising) I probably wouldn't go back to have any more done by that practitioner unless I really saw a marked improvement in my situation.

Even if it's the best treatment in the world, if it's causing more damage than it's fixing, I don't continue. But that's just the way I am. That's my comfort zone.

[jhcakilmer]

Doesn't work for me and I don't believe in it.
However, I am an allopathic MD ("regular doc") and a big skeptic.

I believe strongly in the mind's ability to effect the body. That is how a placebo works. I believe that most alternative medicines work in the same way: belief in the intervention causes the change more than the intervention itself.

Discussing this topic is akin to talking politics or religion at a cocktail party; almost no one's mind will change and it is bound to get someone riled up.

Suffice it to say: If it works for you and it is worth the $, keep doing it.
-s


So what exactly don't you believe in? Philosophy, treatments, techniques, etc? Chiropractors, physical therapist, and osteopathic physicians are all taught many identical techniques, all with slightly different philosophies, or angles. MDs send patients to PTs and chiropractors all the time, so are you disagreeing with there treatment prescription/protocol? The AMA doesn't seem to disagree either.

I think Ginger really made a great point, and most medical practitioners would agree, you can't control what your patient does once they leave the office. So just because the PT or Chiro aids in the healing process, doesn't mean the patient will get better especially if they don't keep up there end of the bargain. A perfect example is my wife, she sleeps on her stomach (which is a no, no!!), and her neck is always twisted, and extended.....and she keeps that position for 8 hours. I work with her, and she feels great, but then she does the same thing the next night. Lately, I've gotten some of the huge body pillows and placed them both sides of her, and she's doing better.......but I don't think your therapist would go that far, unfortunately for znfdl.

France and Italy rank number 1 and 2 on the WHO list of healthcare systems, and also two of the countries with the highest concentrations of osteopaths, and physiotherapist. I'm not saying that they're the sole reason, but it's definitely a significant factor. Not just the particular skill, or service that they practice, but also that philosophical methodology that influences their healthcare system, and wellness philosophy.

Plus that fact that all these Integrated Medical Departments are being established at places like Duke University Medical School, and Sloan Kettering Hospital is a huge testament to the effectiveness of combining conventional and alternative medicine.

[musgravecycles]

It works.

Lifelong skeptic here. Went for treatment after a work related injury a couple of months ago (workman's comp pays) and have been feeling much better lately. Matter of fact I'm about to roll out the door for an adjustment now. :D

[Fixed]

bro sounds a little like rolfing
erichie you are the man imho
cheers

[OldDog]

1989 fractured my neck in a mtn bike wreck. Doctors did their thing to stabalize me, neck brace, therapy etc., but the pain was unbearable for months. Went to a chiro, then another, then another. No dice. Then found one who did me wonders and brought me back to life. See him once a month to this day.

Moral of the story, chiros are good, if, you can find one who's technique jives with your problem.