Can't Wait? Buy One Now!

[admin]

Serotta will now be offering a limited edition supply of stock-geometry bikes with original paint schemes immediately available through our dealers. Serotta has decided to offer stock Ottrotts, Legends, Concours, CDAs and Colorado IIIs in order to meet growing demand for instant products. The brand-new stock bikes feature the same unmatched build quality and renowned road handling abilities of our stock bikes, but without the unavoidable waiting period associated with the custom fit and build process. Check out our website at http://www.serotta.com/pages/stock.html to see what frames and sizes are available; then visit your Serotta dealer to place the direct order for your brand-new bike.

-Alyson :banana:

[Richard]

So, where is the geometry table??

[Smiley]

Instant gratification , is this a GREAT country or what ? Thanks Serotta Alyson , now that's what I call the McSerottatizing of the process.

[TimD]

Instant gratification , is this a GREAT country or what ? Thanks Serotta Alyson , now that's what I call the McSerottatizing of the process.

And don't forget that every single Serotta, even a stock frame, comes with Serotta's Secret Sauce!!! :beer:

[Blastinbob]

So, where is the geometry table??

It looks like the available frames are posted with the geometry . I'm assuming the blowout page has become the display page for the available " Stock " frames .

[dave thompson]

It looks like the available frames are posted with the geometry . I'm assuming the blowout page has become the display page for the available " Stock " frames .
No, Serotta has a "Can't wait? Buy one now" link on the Serotta.com page.

[Tom]

I was curious how my bike compared to another but couldn't find the chart on the site, either. Anybody know where it is?

[Dekonick]

Wouldnt a fierte count? Whats the difference - I thought the fierte concept was just that - standard geo and size. To make legends like this makes no sense (or does it?)

Good idea for the ottrott - after all if you can fit a standard stock size thats fine. I think that paying top $$ for a frame that has custom size included in the price - should have suxton sizing. Just my opinion.

Of course I say this and I ride 2 stock geometry Serotta's (and they fit me perfectly! IMHO -)

(of course I couldnt get a Hors fit to me anyway as they no longer make them. WHHHYYYYYYYY??? Pleeeaaase bring back DKS!!!)

[Serotta_James]

As some of you have already noticed, there is a seperate section to the website that shows all of the new stock frames with individual geometry. At this time, we are in between model years, which means some of the stock geometries will be changing soon. Rather than publish two sets of charts, which would confuse everyone, we are just attaching geometries to the individual bikes.
Also, you may notice that in many cases, these bikes have unusual paint jobs. In fact, the painters themselves are chosing how to do these bikes, resulting in some really cool, one-of-a-kind paint schemes.
Any questions can be directed to me at info@Serotta.com.

James

[Jeff N.]

Not much of a selection......Jeff N.

[kenyee]

some of the stock geometries will be changing soon

Curious what the changes are?
I thought Serotta's geo was always tweaked for stable handling :-)

[Sandy]

I love Serotta bikes, respect greatly Ben Serotta and the Serotta employees, but this whole thread makes little sense to me. Other than the Fierte, all Serottas are custom, with no extra charge. I believe about 95% of Serottas are custom. Serotta takes great pride in their custom sizing and places a great deal of importance on it.

But then here comes a list of a few bikes, with strange geometries and some unique strange paint jobs. Serotta has produced bikes much faster recently, perhaps pushed by custom companies,like Seven. So now we are told that here go get some stock- geometry bikes, if you are in a hurry. If Serotta produces say 2500-3000 bikes a year, what do these few bikes represent? Are they really there to meet the demand for instant products? Go get a Trek or a Klein, or a ....., if you have an instant need. It all seems so contrary to the manner in which Serotta produces and merchandises bikes. To me, it is simply contrary to the image of Serotta.

It seems that the relationship of the headtube angles to the seat tube angles is inconsistent with "normal" Serottas, and these bikes seem more like bikes that either Serotta is experimenting with,both in production and painting, or simply bikes that were not accepted for one reason or another. I just don't get it. Makes no sense to me.

Where may I ask is a chart of stock geometries for non Fierte Serottas?? I would like to see it.


Senseless Sandy

[Andreu]

I guess this is a "one-off" "stock geometry" sale (note quotation marks) as I have not seen an extensive list of geometries nor quantity of bikes for that matter (unless I am looking in the wrong place).
It has probably been sold to us a bit cack-handedly (i.e. by not managing our expectations) and probably happens once in a blue moon (i.e. not often enough with not enough frames!).
I am not expecting anything different as if they are custom-frame builders (as they say they are and everyone on this forum keeps saying they are) than they are in the wrong market for this sort of thing on a "regular" basis.
Unless their marketing policy has changed.
A

[Dr. Doofus]

i hope it makes ben money, but this bit is truly for the more-money-than-sense crowd...for the cost of a serotta, why buy a stock frame...throw out the custom geo and serotta (or seven, or waterford, or calfee) become *much* less attractive...a CIII with an O2 becomes just another $2,000 TIG'd steel frame (read that again).

[Climb01742]

i have a guess about this...order a seven and you can get a fully custom frame built in about a week...order a custom serotta and it takes how many weeks? 4? 6? 8? i'm guessing this is an attempt to bridge that gap.

over the last few months, i've seen a bunch of riders ordering a custom seven...they wanted their frames soon, very soon, this being spring and summer...most of these folks weren't super knowledgeable riders...being nearby i was tempted to say, hey how about a serotta? but then would follow a question...why should i wait weeks for a serotta when i could have a seven in about seven days? i think each of us could answer that question...instead of selling more stock frames...instead of sacrificing their quality by trying to build more frames faster...i would suggest that ben and company come up with an answer to that question and get it out to all their dealers...there are reasons why, i think, that a serotta is worth the wait...guys at bike shops just need to know what and when to say it...right now its just too easy to please a customer by saying, i'll have your seven in a week...

[Kevin]

I'm with Doc. It makes no sense to drop money on an Ottrott and get stock geometry. The whole idea stinks of a "money grab" by Ben. A rider of a stock frame will not experience the "dialed in" ride that we have all come to enjoy. These new stock riders will tell their fellow riders that a Setrotta is not worth the money. As a result, Ben will start losing potential customers. This is just a bad idea.

In addition, with Serotta now pumping out stock frames, the wait for a custom frames will become even longer.

Kevin

:confused: :confused: :confused:

[dbrk]

Serotta, IF, and others were driven to offer custom at stock prices because of Seven. This was years ago now. I have that pretty good authority (not Serotta) but everyone had to follow suit---afterall, it's a Jones's thing. Of course, many custom fits and solutions are not nearly as wise as off the peg and many, many people can happily fit off the peg. Since the demographic for Serottas is not really racers and most riders would prefer a more comfort oriented fit, Serotta will indeed have to shift the geos slightly to create a stock fit that is less racey ('dem short headtubes...).

It's amazing to me that when bike companies are slow, like in February, folks are eating their plum duff instead of getting off theirs...and like Americans true to form they want what they want _now_ (this being a bad thing and a good thing, depending of course). I may wait another two years for the next Sachs. I've been in line for a Nagasawa more than six months. Six months later, I have a Cooper coming. Some things are worth the wait. Serottas too, if that's your fancy, but it goes to show that Serotta has real competition while the traditionalist custom builders don't have to meet that sort of volume. I know less than nothing about economics of scale (or any other sort) so I'll go mum.

It will be interesting to see the modified geometries and if they are actually geared more towards taller front ends. Given the look of spacers and riser stems, that would only make sense. Hmmmm....Making sense...bicycle industry...hmmmm...what doesn't go together there....

dbrk

[slowgoing]

Serotta is just meeting a demand. There are a lot of riders (like me) who don't want or need custom geometry and who would prefer not to have to wait the same time as a custom frame for a stock frame. I think this is a great idea.

[Climb01742]

to me, custom is two things...fit and ride. if you're lucky, a stock frame will fit you, cool. but dialing in exactly the ride you want, that's harder i think with stock. if a stock frame has the fit and ride you like, you're in clover. but if not...personally, i'm with douglas...some frames are worth the wait...but i still don't believe that more stock frames is the best answer to competing with seven.

[Ahneida Ride]

I have mixed reactions. and tend to agree with Climb and Sandy

First, What % of the population can accomodate a stock fit.
Is it at least 1/3 ? Will the stock Geo exemplify a "relaxed" fit ?

And it ain't just about the fit. A custom bike has the frame/tubes
tweaked to suit the riding style of the owner. Some things are worth
the wait. A stock bike may fit correctly but the ride is suboptimal.
For Example, Is the stock bike tuned for a Double or Triple ?

And now the LBS has a few stock lying around and has an economic
incentive to sell em and perhaps not push Custom, when the rider may
benefit from a unique approch.

If this is an attempt to compete with Seven, I'm not convinced.
6-8 week is not a long time to wait for the perfect bike and
Serotta should be emphasizing this fact. It takes time to do it right.
A Custom Serotta is magic. Serotta should inform any perspective
customer that they just can't pump em out. It will only add to the
mystic. Serotta should continue to market itself as an unique
manufactuer.

It is a mistake to emplasize both Custom and and the Buy One Now
mentality. Buy One Now needs a strong caveat. " ONLY IF WORKS "

I aslo realize that Uncle Ben needs to turn a profit. But what
iconoclastic image does "Get it Immediately" portray ?

[Sandy]

What are Serotta stock geometry numbers? The whole deal reminds me of the CSi communication from Serotta.

Stocky Serotta Sandy Seeking Stock Serottas

[Ahneida Ride]

This slogan is hideous and unworthy of such a fine company.

It carries the connotation the Serotta will satisfy one's need for
immediate gratification over one's need for the perfect ride.

This is completely contary to previous marketing. The emphasis should
be on quality and precision, not speed. For a "right now bike" there
are ton's of pre-existing options.

Can I get a Large Fry and a Vanilla Shake with my McSerotta ?
Is their a Drive Up Window at the factory to expediate my purchase ?

But you just gotta love Ben. How many guys would allow me to faceiously
badmouth him on his nickel ?

Why am I pissed ? Because a Custom Serotta is that good, and
no-one should be encouraged to purchase stock when custom is the
way to go.

[shaq-d]

the fierte has been in "stock" for a long time, hasn't it? and serotta has had many stock frames in the past too... i don't really see how this is any diff. looking at the website it just looks like they have some surplus stock.

sd

[Dr. Doofus]

Has Seven drastically changed their process? Last year, the lead time for a custom Seven was 6-8 weeks. Now, for a stock geo or "Signature Size" (where you can full out on a sheet what you want the specs to be, *if* you know what they need to be), it was a week or two.

The doc and I have a very hard time swallowing that Seven is doing full custom in a week.

I and I will repeat a point: for 1900+tax for frame and fork, why would you buy a TIG'd steel Seven or Serotta if it wasn't custom? There are a slew of Italian, Canadian, and U.S. options out there for significantly less...likewise, in Ti, why not just get a damn Merlinspeed and save a huge chunk....

The only way to justify going over, say, 1500 on a steel or 2000 on a Ti frame/fork is if you're getting a custom geometry (and if you know from experience that you fit best, and te thing hadles best, if its custom) but I guess some morons just want the name on the downtube....

[Frank]

the savings were significant, both in time to receive it and the cost.

For example, the Atlanta was a great production frame that was very nicely built and was a nice ride. Yes, the CSi was more expensive and maybe nicer, but not so significantly nicer that it made the Atlanta a poor choice, especially for someone on a bike budget.

This stocking of standard size frames for Serotta seems somewhat like Rivendell's Rambouillet line of frames: the Rambouillet is a very nice production frame/fork at significant savings over the full-custom and long- lead-time Rivendell. To get the Rivendell one must be willing to both wait a long time (14-16 months) and pay $2500 for a frame, fork, and headset. The Rambouillet is more readily available and costs $1300 for the frame fork and headset.

The Rambouillet/Rivendell comparison is probably like the Atlanta vs CSi comparision, where Serotta said the Atlanta "delivers 80-85% of what the CSi offers at about 60% of the price". Since stock frames work for me, and I am an impulse buyer without much patience in waiting weeks or months (and years...yikes!!!), and because I am cheap a 80-85% of full custom at 60% of the price would be right up my alley!

PS Then again, I am a lugged steel fan and it doesn't appear Serotta is headed that direction anytime soon...

[Needs Help]

Serotta, IF, and others were driven to offer custom at stock prices...

I don't ever remember Serotta offering custom at stock prices. The first time I looked at Serottas, they offered custom geometry for something like a $500 upcharge. A few years ago, they increased the list price by $500 for all the models, and claimed custom sizing was free, but if you ordered a stock size you got a $500 rebate. And, last year Serotta raised the prices on all(?) the models. Sandy got caught by that price increase while in the middle of ordering his Ottrott. Currently, I'm not sure you even get a rebate for a stock size anymore or whether stock sizing even exists--anyone?

If "stock like" sizes don't get a rebate, then it seems to me Serotta is charging higher custom prices for stock--not the other way around.

[Smiley]

Look guys and gals , the problem is of perception and that is clearly created at the dealer level. Client walks in and spend months shopping for the right bike. Finally they find the right brand only to be told that it will take 4-6 weeks unless they order from brand 7 which they can have on the road in 2 weeks. Dealer wants to TURN BUCKS over and strike while the irons are hot ( can't say I blame them for that either) . No one tells client that like a fine wine Serotta's need aging to be perfect. So there is the moral to the story. You all want a better factoid. Buy your Serotta's in the freaking dead of winter and my bet is you'll get it in three (3) weeks. Why does everybody wait till spring to order a new bike ? Please explain that to me.

If I waited a good bit to save enough to buy a custom frame , what's 2-3 more weeks extra to get it 100 % right . And by the way Ahneida Man my bet is if you walked into a fine French resturant and ordered a meal from the menu , it would take them more time to make it then if you drove down the road and ordered a Happy Meal from the Golden Arches and brought it back to eat it in that same resturant. Why because it was made YOUR way , kinda like custom. That's what make this a great country , Choices are way too many for all of us to absorb. By the way apres the Poolesville ride I went to McDonalds to break bread with VaRider and first mate. So I like the fries at the arches too .

[Kevin]

I ordered my CSi in February and it took 14 weeks. But I waited. After my Ottrott I knew that a Serotta was worth the wait. If my first Serotta was off the rack I'm not sure that I would have ordered a second. I probably would have ordered a Sachs and waited 14 years.

Kevin

[Sandy]

Or you could have ordered a Sandy, paid up front, and waited forever. :)

Slick Sandy

[gt6267a]

i think there is nothing wrong with a stock from BUT there is something wrong with paying the price of a custom and receiving a stock frame.

I like the idea of Serotta producing more frames and the painters choice idea sounds like a way to keep the bikes somewhat unique.

Presumably, there is less effort required to make a custom bike and/or some economies of scale benefits as well. Should that not be reflected in the price? i.e. these frame / fork combos should cost $200-400 less than a custom.

[Climb01742]

doc doof--the turn around time on a 7 is a week. at least from belmont wheelworks. i've heard that during the summer, 7 employees work 6 days a week, sometimes more. plus they have multiple people designing frames. it pushes more frames out the door...but at a potential cost of quality control...of company culture and morale...and of overexposing the brand. i have no doubt that 7 can still build a fine frame, but they are clearly taking a much more mass produced route...what i wish is that serotta would stick to their guns, be serotta, take however many weeks it takes to build a flawless frame...and articulate for people why the wait is worth it.

[dnovo]

Moderation is for chipmunks. (Or so said Heinlein.) Douglas, the Nagasawa STILL hasn't shown? Bummer! Dave N.

[Ahneida Ride]

Climb,

Well articulated .... Amen.

[Sandy]

Ditto!! Perhaps it is just a business decision to bring in more revenue and not lose sales.

Selling Short Shifty Serotta Sandy

[Sandy]

Heels wound all time.

[Dr. Doofus]

climb --

the shop I worked for split with seven after we, well, sold a lot of serottas and only a couple of sevens...it didn't help that three employees (my doc self included) bought bikes and then 1) one was sent back and it got ugly 2) one was sold to on to a customer (said shop guy's serotta...uh..fit better and seven wouldn't redo the bike) and 3) my bike had screwed up rear spacing and the geo was not what he had spec'd...it was dumped and we got the trusty Corsa.

If Seven's quality control has suffered from *that* level, we shudder....


What does Ben want to do? Sell a lot of bikes? Or, sell a lot of *good* bikes with 100% satisfied customers (except for picky snits like climb who throw away perfectly good ottrotts)?

Seven is over-hyped...oh, but they show hip-looking twenty-somethings in their ads. They must be cool.

Okay, the doc just indulged in a lot of gratuitous seven-bashing. Back to Serotta....

The demand for product is high becuase people are juiced about their serottas...they got that way from getting bikes that were tailored for them...and that, yeah, took some time. Maybe they should stay with what got 'em there, especially since the last two times they made big changes to try to meet jumps in demand, it didn't turn out the way they wanted....

[Climb01742]

"picky snits"...i like it...and painfully accurate. :rolleyes:

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . to understand all this nitpicking and navelgazing aver what is clearly a very reasonable marketing experiment.

Ben runs a business designed to make a profit. Like any good businessman he tries to identify marketing and buying trends and satisfy customer needs in the context of those trends. He also tries to keep an eye on the competition and counter moves by those competitors to grab a slice of his market share.

Ben has made other marketing efforts. The Ottrott and Founder’s Club worked admirably. But there were others that did not--the DKS and aluminum Serotta’s are no longer around, I would assume, because they did not generate enough sales to make a profit.

Maybe this marketing policy will work. Maybe not. Either way, it just shows that an effort is being made to maintain and expand the business, which can only be good for anyone who wants to continue to have access to Serotta products and customer support.

So, in other words . . . Quitcher Bitchin’! ;)

BBDave

[dnovo]

Well spoken, Brother Dave. Wow, what a radical concept Ben has come up with, running a business to make a profit and therefore stay in business. Too bad our government never figured out that principle -- or at least if they have, they are indifferent to its application. Dave N.

[Dekonick]

A wild A.. guess on my part would be:

The fact the Bicycling mag. had a Serotta as bike of the year probably has created the demand that outpaces production. I am not against stock frames - I am one of the lucky one's that fit -perfectly-
I just think S. & co should have a different name on the frame; like the fierte. v.s. legend.

Either way, stock or not - as long as the quality is the same its still a Serotta - inst it?

[Dekonick]

gotta add that a dialed in fit helps. As long as you can fit a standard frame why not go that route?

[Smiley]

DKS was not a failure , just a marketing snafu , I think like old coke if they brought the thing back today it would be a sucess :banana: but they did not ask for my opinion about that one .

[Sandy]

Simply superior points that were very well articulated. Could possibly be an excellent business decision, but it seems to be inconsistent with the Serotta image. I guess the comments on this thread show that we really do care about Serotta, the company. But it really is none of our business, as it is Serotta's business.


Sandy

[Climb01742]

it could turn out to be a good business decision. and of course ben has all the right in the world to try it. but it could also turn out to be like porsche building a 914...or a 924. or mercedes building an A class. i'm all for ben building serotta into as profitable a company as possible, i was simply debating the idea of more stock serottas. i could be wrong, but i would argue that custom is a big part of what makes a serotta a serotta. but hey, as always, the market will have the final word. but would anyone argue that a mercedes benz of today isn't the same engineered car they were 10 to 20 years ago? it is a far bigger comapny, playing in virtually every market in the world, but 10-20 years ago, they were bank vaults on wheels...now they are more about what goes into the bank vault. IMHO, serottas are, today, what benz's were. mercedes has pissed away almost 100 years of building one of the great brands on earth by straying from being what got them there...the best engineered car on earth. i'd hate to see serotta's watered down the way benz's have been.