serotta frames: are custom and stock equal to you?

[Climb01742]

now that serotta has a fairly wide range of stock frames to go alongside their custom ones, i'm curious: how do you see the two? are they equal? are the customs better, and if so, by how much? how much more would you pay for a custom...or would you expect to save for a stock? serotta seems to be trying to "balance their portfolio". what's your take?

[Smiley]

Did somebody tell you of the 2008 line up ? If not wait and ask your questions once you see whats in store for 2008.

[Matt Barkley]

Cool, Sounds like Serotta is going back to what they had a few years back.... - some of the best "stock" geometry options out there. :beer: - Matt

[Len J]

-tube sets customized to ride and weight requirements.
-amangement of front end vis a vis spacers etc to get the bars where you wnat them with the right aestetics.
-pump pegs, etc.
-customizable paint.

As to how much I'd pay for this....it depends on the model and the purpose.

Len

[Peter P.]

The only benefit to buying a stock geometry would be if the wait time for a frame was shorter. Since that isn't so, you might as well take advantage of the custom feature.

Therefore, there seems to be no benefit to the stock geometry whatsoever.

[zap]

Stock Serotta carbon bikes have sloping tt. So stock is out of the question.

Can the Meivici be had with a dead nuts level tt?

[davids]

I'm beginning to sound (at least to myself) like a broken record - I'm more comfortable with a stock bike for two reasons: (1) I can actually ride and evaluate the bike before buying it; and (2) I don't feel like I've got any meaningful criticisms of the best bikes I've ridden.

When it comes to Serotta, the bikes that interest me the most in their lineup right now are the HSG IT and Ti, and the Fierte IT and Ti (notice a pattern here?)

[SoCalSteve]

The only benefit to buying a stock geometry would be if the wait time for a frame was shorter. Since that isn't so, you might as well take advantage of the custom feature.

Therefore, there seems to be no benefit to the stock geometry whatsoever.

Price?

Just askin'

Steve

[Elefantino]

Can the Meivici be had with a dead nuts level tt?
Dead nuts? Isn't that a saddle issue?

[Sandy]

Stock Serotta carbon bikes have sloping tt. So stock is out of the question.

Can the Meivici be had with a dead nuts level tt?


Haven't they been making a MeiVici with a level tt for a while? Didn't Spoke get one that way? I think he did.


Sandy

[Steelhead]

Price?

Just askin'

Steve

When I bought my CDA (custom) the price was the same for custom or stock, with or without carbon seatstays. I went with custom because I had wanted a Serotta for so long that I was willing to wait (got mine delivered in FIVE weeks). Also - I got along so well with and trusted the crew that I worked with on the fit that it was a natural decision to go custom. Also - I got a paint upgrade by attending a Serotta open house at the LBS I used - so I got some killer paint on a custom frame for about the same $$$.

Another thing is that if you take a look at the tubes on mine, it is very visible that the tubes are "ride tuned" for me. I got exactly what I wanted by going custom, i.e. a comfortable ride for fast centuries and all day stuff that was still light and responsive, and I could hold my own in the hills. And some fancy paint, which was a whole nother fun process in it's own right.

If the cost is the same for stock Vs custom and you don't mind a short wait, I say go custom. And with the Serotta fit I bet you like the end result, I know I did and it is no comparison at all to the ill fitting piece of aluminum crap I had been riding. I love it ! :banana: ;)

[Climb01742]

Did somebody tell you of the 2008 line up ? If not wait and ask your questions once you see whats in store for 2008.

smiley, i ain't got a clue about anything. i've just been riding on c50 a lot and got to thinking about stock vs custom. each time i ride it and sorta wonder, could a custom bike be better? old question, i know, but it just got me to thinking about stock vs custom...for nago, for serotta, for pegoretti, for anyone. it's pissing rain here. rainy day musings. :D

[slowgoing]

I've got a new to me stock Legend ST and have a hard time imagining how custom could be better. Felt the same way about a stock Calfee Tetra Pro and a stock Merckx Majestic.

[Ken Robb]

I think the custom for the same price as stock is good for the tuning even if the geos are similar to stock. OTOH, I've owned a stock Legend and CSI and they both were wonderful rides. When buying used I'm leery of custom bikes because it's hard to know what compromises the original owner requested and they may not suit me.

We know a stock Serotta will be fine for most riders including me so they are more valuable to me as used bikes.

I wish Fiertes had clearance for 32 mm tires.

[93legendti]

now that serotta has a fairly wide range of stock frames to go alongside their custom ones, i'm curious: how do you see the two? are they equal? are the customs better, and if so, by how much? how much more would you pay for a custom...or would you expect to save for a stock? serotta seems to be trying to "balance their portfolio". what's your take?

What good is a bike that doesn't fit?

[imp25rs]

If the stock geometry fits and you like the angles and such, then there isn't much advantage to the custom. If they don't fit right, then there is a huge advantage to the custom.

When I got my CSi, I was originally fitted for a custom and it ended up that the only difference would be a seat tube that was 1cm taller. They happened to have a stock 56cm CSi frame and I liked the colors, so we just put the seat up an extra centimeter and everything is perfect. I guess it just depends on if you have a "stock" body or not.

[e-RICHIE]

If the stock geometry fits and you like the angles and such, then there isn't much advantage to the custom. If they don't fit right, then there is a huge advantage to the custom.
some decent parallels and food for thought here (http://www.watchprosite.com/show-forumpostf.classic/fi-16/pi-2290106/ti-377071/s-0/) atmo.

[rounder]

some decent parallels and food for thought here (http://www.watchprosite.com/show-forumpostf.classic/fi-16/pi-2290106/ti-377071/s-0/) atmo.


Good point. After reading that, I think you would have to be out of your mind to go for the Roger Smith Series 2 with all of its technical imperfections, when if you were willing to wait a little longer (2 years??) you could get the Dufour Simplicity.

Maybe we take some of this stuff too seriously, but I don't think it's a whole different than arguing whether to go with Ford or Chevy.

[e-RICHIE]

Good point. After reading that, I think you would have to be out of your mind to go for the Roger Smith Series 2 with all of its technical imperfections, when if you were willing to wait a little longer (2 years??) you could get the Dufour Simplicity.
the wait would kill me atmo -


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1413/1362904013_ed44367979.jpg

[BumbleBeeDave]

The ability to ride tune the tubing and to get custom paint are also important to me and were major factors in my wanting a custom frame. I can ride a stock 56 just fine, but I wanted a bike that no one else has--something that is uniquely mine. I got that with custom, so it was worth the extra $$ to me.

BBD

[SPOKE]

Haven't they been making a MeiVici with a level tt for a while? Didn't Spoke get one that way? I think he did.


Sandy

yes i did!!!! i don't mind a little slope in the TT......i just don't want it to be more than 5 degrees

[stevep]

hey richie,
what time is it now?
my watch wont be here for 3 years....
it'll be worth the wait, though.
s

ill know what time it is for 2 years before i get yr frame.

[kerrycycle]

Since only 15% of the cycling public has a true need for custom geometry (i.e. due to physical dimensions or other biomechanical features), most likely a "stock" frame will be fine. As others have mentioned, however, it depends on you...your wants and desires in your next frame.

Simply put, the custom-built rigs can be tuned to your riding style and can take into consideration some of the small nuances of your build. Of course, if you need that level top tube or want your own paint job, go custom, baby.

I just recently got a HSG Carbon & the bike is exactly what I wanted. I fall into the 85% category and wanted a stiff ride with aggressive geometry. My perspective was why spend the extra coin to get an Attack (Meivici is way too expensive, especially for racing) just so I can have my own color choices.
Again, this is just my thought process.

Good luck with your choice. If you are part of the 85% of the riding public not requiring custom geometry, you just increased your options & number of choices. Either way, you cannot go wrong with a Serotta.

[Frank Draper]

Steelhead,

I am interested in hearing more about your bike. Do you have pics? What are the specs.? If my request is considered hijacking then you can send a reply to my private email.

FrankD.

[saab2000]

I have become skeptical of custom bikes since it became obvious to me that 10 different fittings with 10 different fitters will likely come up with 10 different designs. Everyone has a different interpretation of what's right and appropriate for a given usage.

My Serotta CIII is a custom for someone else (still waiting to get the geo from Serotta James) but pretty much all my other bikes are stock bikes now.

Not saying I won't ever go custom in the future, but if I do I would use the basics from the stock bikes I have as a starting point. Maybe a bit of tweaking (millimeters of tweaking, not more) but not a whole new design.

[e-RICHIE]

<snip> 10 different fittings with 10 different fitters will likely come up with 10 different designs. <cut>
i hate when that happens


<snip> I would use the basics from the stock bikes I have as a starting point. Maybe a bit of tweaking (millimeters of tweaking, not more) but not a whole new design.
makes sense atmo.

[Grant McLean]

I have become skeptical of custom bikes since it became obvious to me that 10 different fittings with 10 different fitters will likely come up with 10 different designs. Everyone has a different interpretation of what's right and appropriate for a given usage.

I think there are two different parts to custom:

The rider needs to be their own advocate for fit. Get your contact points nailed down first.

The 'custom bike' part is to best translate those contact points into a bike that rides great.
In my mind, every bike should be custom. For any given set of rider contact
points, it's the best solution to set up the geometry around those dimensions,
not the other way around, atmo. Of course it's entirely possible that a
stock frame will be the same dimensions... but ideally, it's the bike made to the
rider, not the other way around.

g

[saab2000]

I agree with what Grant says. I think my contact points are pretty solidly defined. But each of my bikes is slightly different from the others.

Anyway, they are all within a pretty small window of each other.

I don't know why I worry about this. I ain' getting a new bike anytime soon..... Custom or stock.

[rounder]

I'm beginning to sound (at least to myself) like a broken record - I'm more comfortable with a stock bike for two reasons: (1) I can actually ride and evaluate the bike before buying it; and (2) I don't feel like I've got any meaningful criticisms of the best bikes I've ridden.

When it comes to Serotta, the bikes that interest me the most in their lineup right now are the HSG IT and Ti, and the Fierte IT and Ti (notice a pattern here?)

Yeah...me too. I would go with a bike I like with standard geometry. I don't think I have any special sizing needs and have never experienced any particular problems with pain. But if I was going to wait in line for a long time for a special bike that I planned to keep forever, I would go custom and listen to the builder.

[Steelhead]

Steelhead,

I am interested in hearing more about your bike. Do you have pics? What are the specs.? If my request is considered hijacking then you can send a reply to my private email.

FrankD.

I've got some pics of my bike in various seductive poses and locales - but for the life of me I don't know how to post photos. If I can figure it out I will. My frame specs are basically a 53.5 "square" meaning 53.5 seat and top tubes, with about a 4 deg. tt slope, so still basically flat/level tt. The key to the whole thing is the visible shape and taper of the tubes. you can really tell where the builder swaged and butted the tubes, particularly the downtube toward the bottom bracket and the top tube near the headtube and the seat tube. Beautiful.

Also - The other morning I was out way before dawn with a lot of fog in the air, and when I rode under streetlights, the slight metallic flake in the candy apple red was really glistening. What a ride this thing is!

One other thing about the fit, and Momof4greatkids reminded me with her post the other day. I consistenly ride farther, faster and stronger on this bike and have since the first time I rode it. Also - I feel better at the end of a ride. A hot century that has put me in bed all afternoon on my old bike..... I rode it this year on my new CDA and then went home and mowed the yard. I love it.

[gt6267a]

the wait would kill me atmo -


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1413/1362904013_ed44367979.jpg

i am wearing this watch in black right now.

[Steelhead]

Are you wearing the matching parachute pants?


:banana: :D ;)

[Ti Designs]

A couple of years ago both my Seven and I were broke at the same time. The Seven had a broken seat stay that somehow spread to the rest of the frame, and I had a mortgage I couldn't afford - like I said, both broke. My plan was to purchase the least expensive bike I could find (Specialized Allez - $599.99 MSRP) and swap the components over from my Seven. I'm sure people would laugh at first, but when you get your a$$ handed to you on a guy riding a $300 frame it don't seem so funny any more. The Specialized just didn't fit. The Trek 1000 also didn't fit. Same with the Lemond, the Schwinn, Iron Horse, Huffy and the Toys-R-Us house brands. Serotta clearly wasn't my first choise, nor was custom, but sometimes you gotta take what life hands you...

[Frank Draper]

I've got some pics of my bike in various seductive poses and locales - but for the life of me I don't know how to post photos. If I can figure it out I will. My frame specs are basically a 53.5 "square" meaning 53.5 seat and top tubes, with about a 4 deg. tt slope, so still basically flat/level tt. The key to the whole thing is the visible shape and taper of the tubes. you can really tell where the builder swaged and butted the tubes, particularly the downtube toward the bottom bracket and the top tube near the headtube and the seat tube. Beautiful.

Also - The other morning I was out way before dawn with a lot of fog in the air, and when I rode under streetlights, the slight metallic flake in the candy apple red was really glistening. What a ride this thing is!

One other thing about the fit, and Momof4greatkids reminded me with her post the other day. I consistenly ride farther, faster and stronger on this bike and have since the first time I rode it. Also - I feel better at the end of a ride. A hot century that has put me in bed all afternoon on my old bike..... I rode it this year on my new CDA and then went home and mowed the yard. I love it.

Does your CDA have the carbon seat stays? In reference to posting pics. I learned from the forum members that you first have to downsize them. They directed me to a web site that has free software to resize the image. The one I use is VSO. Maybe some of the members can offer assistance.

FrankD.

[gt6267a]

Are you wearing the matching parachute pants?


:banana: :D ;)

Funny you mention that, the jeans I am wearing are from college. Oddly, back then, I probably would not have been caught dead wearing a swatch but now think it is the business. Super light, water tight, and looks fine with black and white face … from time to time I show people the watch and ask them to guess the manufacturer, rarely do people guess swatch. This is probably because 1) mine is black with a white face. Without the wild colors people don’t recognize it. 2) No swatch guard. Though, if I had one in black, I might put it on!

[MarleyMon]

now that serotta has a fairly wide range of stock frames to go alongside their custom ones, i'm curious: how do you see the two? are they equal? are the customs better, and if so, by how much? how much more would you pay for a custom...or would you expect to save for a stock? serotta seems to be trying to "balance their portfolio". what's your take?

1. I see them at my local serotta dealer or online.
2. no, not equal
3. yes, custom is better, by a few hundred dollars.
4. see #3 ... but I would go stock.
5. I like the HSG bikes, one would fit me very well. I would pay more for
different paint. I don't need a custom geo, I'm not sure I would be be able
to discern differences in tube shapes, so I like the stock options.

[RPS]

I think there are two different parts to custom:

The rider needs to be their own advocate for fit. Get your contact points nailed down first.

The 'custom bike' part is to best translate those contact points into a bike that rides great.
In my mind, every bike should be custom. For any given set of rider contact
points, it's the best solution to set up the geometry around those dimensions,
not the other way around, atmo. Of course it's entirely possible that a
stock frame will be the same dimensions... but ideally, it's the bike made to the
rider, not the other way around.

gGrant, standard frames normally vary in increments of 1 CM or less in what counts the most, so what are you doing to the geometry to improve the situation enough to warrant a "custom" for most riders?

[swoop]

didn't we have this discussion already? it depends on what you want. the thing is you chose. you decide. you can eat it the way it was cooked or you can order it to taste.

better, not better.. i don't know what that means. on one you can make different choices than on the other. it seems a mute point if you like to assert some choices... or pointless if you don't.

[e-RICHIE]

didn't we have this discussion already? it depends on what you want. the thing is you chose. you decide. you can eat it the way it was cooked or you can order it to taste.
the bee-meister gets it atmo -
...but I wanted a bike that no one else has--something that is uniquely mine.
BBD

[Steelhead]

Yes my CDA has carbon seatstays, and it was at least back then, my understanding that the Serotta frames available in both stock and custom sizes were the same price. Ie., A stock CDA for $1750 or a custom CDA for $1750. I think the same goes for the stock v. custom Concours, etc...

[MarleyMon]

... it seems a mute point if you like to assert some choices...

an oxymoronic Freudian slip? or Zen koan?
"a mute point" - I like it!

[davids]

...a mute point...
Take one as needed:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2007/tech/newarrivals/01-10/MootsCyclesWoolTrainer.jpg

[swoop]

an oxymoronic Freudian slip? or Zen koan?
"a mute point" - I like it!


woopsie! life without an editor is not e-z! if you could hear but not talk, would you ride stock or custom?

[Grant McLean]

Grant, standard frames normally vary in increments of 1 CM or less in what counts the most, so what are you doing to the geometry to improve the situation enough to warrant a "custom" for most riders?

What dimension is "counts the most"? Trail? Front Center? Top tube? Stem?

Two bikes with the same set back and reach and can be configured differently.

A "custom" bike isn't about top tube length increments out of a catalog,
it's a whole design optimized for one specific rider's postion and preferences.



-g

[MarleyMon]

...if you could hear but not talk, would you ride stock or custom?

I could not say.

[e-RICHIE]

What dimension is "counts the most"? Trail? Front Center? Top tube? Stem?

Two bikes with the same set back and reach and can be configured differently.

A "custom" bike isn't about top tube length increments out of a catalog,
it's a whole design optimized for one specific rider's postion and preferences.

-g
g i think...
by dint of the steeper head angle the frame on the right
will have a longer reach, despite that the tt and stem add
up to 64.5 atmo.

[davids]

g i think...
by dint of the steeper head angle the frame on the right
will have a longer reach, despite that the tt and stem add
up to 64.5 atmo.
This guy's good!

I thought the one on the left looked faster, atmo.

[Grant McLean]

g i think...
by dint of the steeper head angle the frame on the right
will have a longer reach, despite that the tt and stem add
up to 64.5 atmo.


Yes, it's like trying to herd a bunch cats...
Nail down one thing and everything changes.

It's close enough. (less than 3mm :) )

It's the angle of the stem that changes,
(the reach changes as stem rotates 1.5 degrees)
As long as the bar height is the same, the reach will
be very close.

edit:
Actually, atmo, the reach is SHORTER with the steaper head angle.

g

[e-RICHIE]

Yes, it's like trying to herd a bunch cats...
Nail down one thing and everything changes.

It's close enough. (less than 3mm :) )

It's the angle of the stem that changes,
(the reach changes as stem rotates 1.5 degrees)
As long as the bar height is the same, the reach will
be very close.

g
without logging on to ask jeeves, i'd wager that the
steeper head angle there would add at least a cm to
your reach atmo.

[Grant McLean]

without logging on to ask jeeves, i'd wager that the
steeper head angle there would add at least a cm to
your reach atmo.

where do you get "add"?

the stem is rotating closer to the seat tube, no?

The head angle is pivoting on a fixed point - the top tube, no?

please explain

g

[e-RICHIE]

where do you get "add"?

the stem is rotating closer to the seat tube, no?

The head angle is pivoting on a fixed point - the top tube, no?

please explain

g
the steeper head angle throws that stem further
away from the saddle atmo. and it also bring in
the front center all things being equal.

[Grant McLean]

the steeper head angle throws that stem further
away from the saddle atmo. and it also bring in
the front center all things being equal.

Maybe by about 1 or 2 mm and you just raise the bars by that amount.

My example was to keep the FC equal, and decrease trail, and
keep the reach close enough.

One is my colnago, one is my deRosa. Both bikes are 52cm -bars to the saddle
tip, and the set back is so close, that moving 1 mm or two on top of the saddle
takes care of anything else.

The 'add or subtrack' reach depends on the angle of the stem, no?
If you have a '17 stem and the steeper head angle brings the stem
below the parallel line with the ground, the reachs gets less, not more.
right?

g

[e-RICHIE]

Maybe by about 1 or 2 mm and you just raise the bars by that amount.

My example was to keep the FC equal, and decrease trail, and
keep the reach close enough.

One is my colnago, one is my deRosa. Both bikes are 52cm -bars to the saddle
tip, and the set back is so close, that moving 1 mm or two on top of the saddle
takes care of anything else.

The 'add or subtrack' reach depends on the angle of the stem, no?
If you have a '17 stem and the steeper head angle brings the stem
below the parallel line with the ground, the reachs gets less, not more.
right?

g
well there ya' go.

[Grant McLean]

well there ya' go.

Anyway... the whole point is the whole :)

I think we're :beer: on that one.


g

[e-RICHIE]

I think we're :beer: on that one.


g
anything but keith's atmo puleeeze.

[swoop]

I could not say.

i hear you.

grant.. if i had to kill one member of your family (hi dad) which one would effect the most change in the way the family feels at thanksgiving? its like that. granddma doesn't climb so well, mom oversteers, dad's bottom bracket is dragging if you know what i mean, and my sister induces speed wobble. the dog provides some comfort though.


custom or stock is like.. loving the family you have even if you hate some of them or ..like being able to order your family from a catalogue and then feeling like you can't admit out loud you hate some of them because you picked them.

it's bad metaphor wednesday. lets party.

[Grant McLean]

i hear you.

grant.. if i had to kill one member of your family (hi dad) which one would effect the most change in the way the family feels at thanksgiving? its like that. granddma doesn't climb so well, mom oversteers, dad's bottom bracket is dragging if you know what i mean, and my sister induces speed wobble. the dog provides some comfort though.



swoop gets it atmo


g

[davids]

swoop gets it atmo


g
Waitaminute... Is he killing your dad?

[swoop]

this is the end.. (Dm) beautiful friend the end (Em). right?

*cough.

[Grant McLean]

Waitaminute... Is he killing your dad?

swoop is cheeseburgers and donuts?


g

[davids]

swoop is cheeseburgers and donuts?


g
No! Cheeseburgers and donuts killed Jim Morrison, atmo.

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palladium/1409/jimdoor.jpg

[Grant McLean]

for the record, i'd kill anyone messing with my bikes.

Also, remember that the Jerk got it right in the "ethics of copying geo" thread.
If you think the catalogs are actually the geo of the built frames, you'll
be mistaken....

g

[RPS]

What dimension is "counts the most"? Trail? Front Center? Top tube? Stem?

Two bikes with the same set back and reach and can be configured differently.

A "custom" bike isn't about top tube length increments out of a catalog,
it's a whole design optimized for one specific rider's postion and preferences.



-gAssuming the same contact points which was the original question, are you saying that when two riders request a fitting you can honestly tell them something like that a standard 73 degree head tube angle is not ideal for them; that rider "A" needs a 72.8 and rider "B" needs a 73.2 degree head tube angle? BTW, I was not referring about HTA as the dimension that counts the most when fitting a standard frame.

There is custom and there is custom. Custom for the sake of dictating build choices as suggested by many here is one thing, but the part about custom geometry for most riders is beyond logic to me. Sure, a few riders with really odd body proportions or unusual needs, but for most?

Grant, are you sure about the front center numbers in your sketch below? I'm just doing the math in my head but the difference in rake doesn't seem enough to compensate for the HTA and end up with the same front center.

[RPS]

without logging on to ask jeeves, i'd wager that the
steeper head angle there would add at least a cm to
your reach atmo.Are you serious about one centimeter? :confused:

[Grant McLean]

Assuming the same contact points which was the original question, are you saying that when two riders request a fitting you can honestly tell them something like that a standard 73 degree head tube angle is not ideal for them; that rider "A" needs a 72.8 and rider "B" needs a 73.2 degree head tube angle? BTW, I was not referring about HTA as the dimension that counts the most when fitting a standard frame.

There is custom and there is custom. Custom for the sake of dictating build choices as suggested by many here is one thing, but the part about custom geometry for most riders is beyond logic to me. Sure, a few riders with really odd body proportions or unusual needs, but for most?



Think about it the other way around.

There are no measurements until the frame is built. The location of the wheels
below the rider are placed on purpose in their position. The rider's position
over their bike is NOT resultant of the geometry, the numbers are resultant
of their location. Half a degree here, a few mm's there, and you're wheels
aren't where they should be, atmo.



Grant, are you sure about the front center numbers in your sketch below? I'm just doing the math in my head but the difference in rake doesn't seem enough to compensate for the HTA and end up with the same front center.

The top tube length is where the difference is. That's how the FC is the same.

[Grant McLean]

Are you serious about one centimeter? :confused:

I think there was a slight overthinking...

i'm pretty sure this is what he means -


-g

[shinomaster]

I would consider a custom ti cross frame if they would build it very light to suit my 144lb skinny body. I don't need a super sturdy frame like a legend.

[Steelhead]

I would consider a custom ti cross frame if they would build it very light to suit my 144lb skinny body. I don't need a super sturdy frame like a legend.

Indy Fab Ti Planet Cross, custom.

[Big Dan]

The stock 56L works for me. 56x56....
Not sure if it's still available.

:p

[93legendti]

I would consider a custom ti cross frame if they would build it very light to suit my 144lb skinny body. I don't need a super sturdy frame like a legend.

Shino, a Serotta custom is a bike built for YOU:
"...The Concours Cross is our ultimate cross bike, combining the performance and durability of Titanium with our flagship Serotta Custom personal fit and ride. A versatile race bike, the flexibility of our custom platform lets us tailor the build just for you. Race it, commute on it, use it for bad weather or off-season training - or just ride it for fun. The Concours Cross is built for the way you ride..."

http://www.serotta.com/pages/concours_cx.html

[RPS]

I think there was a slight overthinking...

i'm pretty sure this is what he means -


-gGrant, your bikes are similar to mine as related to contact points. I ride a 54 CM with 55 TT and 73 degree HTA and STA.

With minor adjustments, I could replicate my contact points on your two frames. In your opinion, would your two bikes be that different for me than for you? Would they work for you but not me?

[Grant McLean]

Grant, your bikes are similar to mine as related to contact points. I ride a 54 CM with 55 TT and 73 degree HTA and STA.

With minor adjustments, I could replicate my contact points on your two frames. In your opinion, would your two bikes be that different for me than for you? Would they work for you but not me?

too many variable to say.

post a photo of your bike in profile.

g

[taz-t]

i hear you.

grant.. if i had to kill one member of your family (hi dad) which one would effect the most change in the way the family feels at thanksgiving? its like that. granddma doesn't climb so well, mom oversteers, dad's bottom bracket is dragging if you know what i mean, and my sister induces speed wobble. the dog provides some comfort though.


custom or stock is like.. loving the family you have even if you hate some of them or ..like being able to order your family from a catalogue and then feeling like you can't admit out loud you hate some of them because you picked them.

it's bad metaphor wednesday. lets party.

Take out dad - trust me...

- Oedipus

[RPS]

too many variable to say.

post a photo of your bike in profile.

gGrant, the top picture is the most recent I have, but has a temporary quill adaptor installed. The stem looks shorter than it is -- the distance back to the steering axis is about the same as when I had a “7” stem installed (older picture included for reference).

I’m not sure what you can conclude about my question from a picture, but I’m curious as to how sensitive you think I’d be regarding fitting on the two bikes you posted.

Please keep in mind that I’m not asking if the bikes would be different from each other, but rather if they would be different for you versus me when adjusted to replicate my contact points.

[Grant McLean]

I’m not sure what you can conclude about my question from a picture, but I’m curious as to how sensitive you think I’d be regarding fitting on the two bikes you posted.

Please keep in mind that I’m not asking if the bikes would be different from each other, but rather if they would be different for you versus me when adjusted to replicate my contact points.


My deRosa and your bike have wheels in pretty much the same place.
You're sitting farther back on your bike than i am, but your front center
is maybe even a tick shorter than mine, so where sitting in pretty much
the same place over the bike.

Would I suggest you to be on a 53cm deRosa? Not really. You'd have the
seat slammed all the way back, and a high rise stem. A bigger one would
have a shallower seat angle, centering the rails, and a longer head tube,
so you wouldn't need as many spacers.


g

[RPS]

Thanks Grant, but I remain unconvinced that most riders need a custom geometry. Some yes, but not many. Even though your bike is too small for me and the geometry is different, the most I’d need is a different seat post and I’d be good to go. I could easily move the saddle up and back 1 CM each -- and maybe have to flip the stem -- but that’s about it.

Provided one can choose from various stock geometries of the many available models as a starting point, I see little need to vary geometry for most riders. In my case I would never start with a model that has a 71.1 HTA and a fork with 43 MM of rake, but many stock models from various manufacturers with approximately a 73 HTA would easily work for me.

My deRosa and your bike have wheels in pretty much the same place.Isn't that pretty much the case with most bikes of similar size? One maybe two percent difference at most?

[Grant McLean]

Thanks Grant, but I remain unconvinced that most riders need a custom geometry. Some yes, but not many. Even though your bike is too small for me and the geometry is different, the most I’d need is a different seat post and I’d be good to go. I could easily move the saddle up and back 1 CM each -- and maybe have to flip the stem -- but that’s about it.

Provided one can choose from various stock geometries of the many available models as a starting point, I see little need to vary geometry for most riders. In my case I would never start with a model that has a 71.1 HTA and a fork with 43 MM of rake, but many stock models from various manufacturers with approximately a 73 HTA would easily work for me.

Isn't that pretty much the case with most bikes of similar size? One maybe two percent difference at most?

I think you hold your beliefs because you're right in the middle of the size range.

If you are small like me, almost no brands stock geo is what i like. If you're even
smaller, the differences between brands are dramatic. If you're larger there
are big differences between brands.

It's no different than saying "i'm 5'10", 165lbs, size 10 feet, and i have no problem
getting clothes and shoes".

shocking...

Given the choice, i'll take 'made to measure' anything over stock.

g

[BoulderGeek]

Grant's explanation above is exactly what I thought on this topic.

I'm 6' even, size 11 feet, 33" legs, 205lbs (hey, I'm muscular, OK?).

Downside: so is a large percentage of the (American) population. Good deals on clothes are usually gone by the time I get there.

Upside: stock frames and other things usually fit me well. My stock 58 Nove seems perfect for me, and I can't imagine the custom option adding much if anything (and the risk of negative compromise scares me). A stock 59 Colnago also feels great, etc.

I'm easy to please with well made machinery. Now, girlfriends, on the other hand.... :confused: :no:

[RPS]

I think you hold your beliefs because you're right in the middle of the size range.Yes, I understand that 54 to 56 CM frames are the most common, so I'm lucky there. However, my body proportions are not in the middle of the bell curve. I have long femurs and arms for my size.
If you are small like me, almost no brands stock geo is what i like. If you're even
smaller, the differences between brands are dramatic. If you're larger there
are big differences between brands.Grant, don't these differences between brands make it easier to find one that fits right without having to go custom, provided you are flexible on brand?

[Grant McLean]

fits right without having to go custom, provided you are flexible on brand?

Virtually everything you say includes a "provided".

I think we agree on everything, provided we're talking about the same thing.


g

[RPS]

Virtually everything you say includes a "provided".

I think we agree on everything, provided we're talking about the same thing.


gOK, it's idiotic to think in black and white. There, no provisions. :rolleyes: