What was wrong with threaded?

[bw77]

Let me say first, that I am out of it in terms of the reasons driving current bike trends.

I have a 7 year old steel Bianchi, horizontal top tube, Nitto stem to get the bars up to 1" below the saddle. Looks ok to me.

To get the bars up with threadless, it's some combination of:

sloping top tube
extended head tube
spacers
up-angle stem

I just don't like the look, and it makes no sense to me that threaded has gone away, except on custom bikes.

Just wondering why.

Bill

[RPS]

In time efficiency prevails, and threaded system is less efficient IMO.

[Jason E]

You are right. It is not the most convienient for everyone.

The reasons the powers that be like it are:

Less parts = less expensive, all other things being equivalent
Easier to assemble/adjust
lighter (which they can market)

Others may have other reasons, or disagree with these, but this is just the basics of how it came about.

With the evolution of the parts on a bike, comes the evolution of the bikes and their specific use. This is why there are traditional goemetry bikes and 'comfort' class, like the pilot, or now the Madone Performance fit vs the Pro-fit.

There are still custom builders and smaller companies theat will get you what you want.

[Fixed]

bro there is nothing wrong with it imho on a road bike the fat cats got to come up with new improved stuff .... to mount on your bike it's an easy change they just go through you wallet
cheers

[chakatrain]

...of the quill stem myself. Wish we could find a way to bring that back.

The stem clamping on to the steer tube with however many spacers just doesn't look as sexy to me, for whatever reason.

I do think, however, the stem faceplate innovation is a great step forward (see, I'm not a total grouch!).

[Ken Robb]

sometimes I think the ideal would be a quill stem with a removable faceplate so we could swap bars easily and still adjust the height w/o spacers, etc.

[Kevan]

those of us looking to clamp a stem on an older 1" steerer now have to include a shim when ordering 1-1/8" stems.

[Dekonick]

sometimes I think the ideal would be a quill stem with a removable faceplate so we could swap bars easily and still adjust the height w/o spacers, etc.

+1

[Grant McLean]

I just don't like the look, and it makes no sense to me that threaded has gone away, except on custom bikes.



Bill


Alu and carbon steerers can't be threaded, that's why threadless is everywhere.

Also, from a manufacturing standpont, any uncut threadless steerer will work
on any frame, so there is no need to stock 5 or 6 sizes of fork with the threads
located on the correct height of the steerer for the headset.

There is nothing wrong with "threadless" as a design, it's great. What's wrong
is the lack of stems in anything other than a block of aluminum!

how about some production stems like these:

[72gmc]

I agree, Grant. I waffled quite a bit on this issue when I was having my Davidson built. I like a Nitto drop bar with a 25.4 clamp diameter, further limiting my options. So I chose threadless because a) there is so much more product on the market, b) I like removable faceplates, and c) I plan to have a custom stem like that Pereira made for me someday. A long-term custom goodie strategy is important to me.

I do have a 1" steerer, though, so I have to shim my Salsa cromoto. Such is life.

[93legendti]

Listen to Coach e-RICHIE:
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=199240&postcount=4
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=199284&postcount=22
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=199398&postcount=67
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=199455&postcount=73

[e-RICHIE]

gets it atmo -




ps
arrange disorder for beer and chips -
:beer: :beer: :beer:
:beer: :beer: :beer:
:beer: :beer: :beer:

[Bradford]

I just don't like the look, and it makes no sense to me that threaded has gone away, except on custom bikes.

I don't think the vast majority of cyclist care if their stem points up or down, or if they have spacers showing or stem showing. I also don't think most people care if their top tube slopes or not.

Also, for most people, tightening a threaded headset is hard to do. Heck, most people don't even have the right wrench.

For the vast majority of cyclists, threadless is a much better idea.

[93legendti]

gets it atmo -




ps
arrange disorder for beer and chips -
:beer: :beer: :beer:
:beer: :beer: :beer:
:beer: :beer: :beer:

I don't know if I "get it", but I try to pay attention.

[musgravecycles]

how about some production stems like these:


Here ya go G
:D

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z311/jhcakilmer/1-1.jpg?t=1189187422

[93legendti]

I get this:

it's the overall headset top-bottom that has gotten
smaller, not the stem shapes/types. to rectify the
loss of real estate caused by a miniaturized headset,
a builder will often raise the upper head lug area to
"compensate" for the missing hardware. in most cases,
15-18mm is all that's needed, and it can be achieved
gracefully and with elan. the underlying issue that is
always part of these ugly/not ugly debates is that industry
has taken the h.t. extension concept to the extreme, and
often uses the overall length to cover up the entire area
that once was taken up by a bit of quill.
whether you like threaded or threadless, there is no need
for all these head tubes to come up to the bottom of the
business end of a stem. where were you all in the pre-90s
when folks had some quill showing yo? nobody was ranting
about head tubes needin' watering so as to grow up higher.
or-were-they?!

[Grant McLean]

Here ya go G
:D


oh ya baby, now that's the stuff i like :)

g

[guyintense]

Those are nice looking stems, but this one pretty cool too. Agree?

[Dekonick]

Alu and carbon steerers can't be threaded, that's why threadless is everywhere.

Also, from a manufacturing standpont, any uncut threadless steerer will work
on any frame, so there is no need to stock 5 or 6 sizes of fork with the threads
located on the correct height of the steerer for the headset.

There is nothing wrong with "threadless" as a design, it's great. What's wrong
is the lack of stems in anything other than a block of aluminum!

how about some production stems like these:

I LIKE them sam I am...

[hansolo758]

sometimes I think the ideal would be a quill stem with a removable faceplate so we could swap bars easily and still adjust the height w/o spacers, etc.


+1.

Threadless came into fashio with MTBs. which outsell road bikes. It's cheaper for the industry to have 1 standard and achieve economies of scale.

[RPS]

sometimes I think the ideal would be a quill stem with a removable faceplate so we could swap bars easily and still adjust the height w/o spacers, etc.You mean like this one at 271 grams for 10 CM?

[hansolo758]

You mean like this one at 271 grams for 10 CM?


man, that particular one is **tt ugly. How about a Nitto pearl with a removable faceplate?

[e-RICHIE]

You mean like this one at 271 grams for 10 CM?
that is not a very elegant looking puppy atmo!


ps -
hansolo758 atmo!

[dirtdigger88]

this is slightly better- but I heard they had some flex to them

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/images/products/Accessories/cinelli1.jpg

Jason

[RPS]

that is not a very elegant looking puppy atmo!


ps -
hansolo758 atmo!My point -- and it's heavy too.

Sometimes it's better to embrace technology and adjust one's taste accordingly. But then I prefer the simple lines of threadless.

[e-RICHIE]

But then I prefer the simple lines of threadless.
me too atmo -
i see no shortcomings w threadless.

[Louis]

But then I prefer the simple lines of threadless.


:confused: :confused: :confused:

Nothing simpler than a quill stem. So many (not all, but most) of the threadless stems look like industrial pressure vessels, with all the bolts and stuff protruding all over the place.

[Louis]

i see no shortcomings w threadless.

At least one I can think of: Once a steerer tube has been cut it's not very easy to increase/modify the height of the bars without lots of gyrations and esthetic compromises. With a quill you have many more simple options.

[e-RICHIE]

Nothing simpler than a quill stem. So many (not all, but most) of the threadless stems look like industrial pressure vessels, with all the bolts and stuff protruding all over the place.
atmo to cover all the bases of headset assembly,
wear, ease of maintenance, and ability to service
and replace parts quickly, threadless trumps atmo.
you are correct about the ugly iterations, but no
stem is more elegant atmo than a good forged
AL threadless. oval concepts forvever...
At least one I can think of: Once a steerer tube has been cut it's not very easy to increase/modify the height of the bars without lots of gyrations and esthetic compromises. With a quill you have many more simple options.
i can't buy that. the same can be said for threaded.
that's the thing - folks don't go around cutting their
forks willy nilly and then wake up a week later atmo.
besides, what are esthetic compromises? it's okay to
have gobs of quill exposed to get heightened, but a few
spacers offend?


ps
arrange disorder
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :D

[RPS]

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Nothing simpler than a quill stem. So many (not all, but most) of the threadless stems look like industrial pressure vessels, with all the bolts and stuff protruding all over the place.Louis, we all have different tastes, and I find elegance in simplicity of function.

The threaded quill stem itself may be simpler in some ways, but the complex headset more than offsets it for me. All the exposed parts don't look any cleaner to me than a few spacers and a clamp bolt or two.

[RPS]

me too atmo -
i see no shortcomings w threadless.e-R, have you ever converted a threaded fork to threadless, particularly without replacing the steerer?

[e-RICHIE]

e-R, have you ever converted a threaded fork to threadless, particularly without replacing the steerer?
i wouldn't.
atmo the added heat to necessitate the repair is a liability. fixing
wrecks is one thing; i don't look for trouble unless nigella lawson
is involved.

[FlaRider]

i wouldn't.
i don't look for trouble unless nigella lawson
is involved.

Or Leona Helmsley's maltese.

[eddief]

the Salsa SUL Quill. I think Salsa could have done some interesting things with either colors, chrome, or anodizing these things. On a small diameter tubed steel frameset these look damned good to me.

http://aebike.com/page.cfm?PageID=30&action=details&sku=SM0022

[palincss]

i can't buy that. the same can be said for threaded.
that's the thing - folks don't go around cutting their
forks willy nilly and then wake up a week later atmo.
besides, what are esthetic compromises? it's okay to
have gobs of quill exposed to get heightened, but a few
spacers offend?


People may not "wake up a week later" -- but they may find the shop has cut the steerer too short when they built up the frame; or they may find that when they are 10 years older they just can't comfortably tolerate what once was perfect. 10 years is nothing in the life of a bike like yours, so although it might not be a week later, this could end up biting hard sooner or later.

Unless, of course, you're saying the forks don't have that long a life, so before your 10 years go by you'll get another opportunity?

[e-RICHIE]

People may not "wake up a week later" -- but they may find the shop has cut the steerer too short when they built up the frame;
sue the shop!
or they may find that when they are 10 years older they just can't comfortably tolerate what once was perfect. 10 years is nothing in the life of a bike like yours, so although it might not be a week later, this could end up biting hard sooner or later.

in that case invert the stem?

Unless, of course, you're saying the forks don't have that long a life, so before your 10 years go by you'll get another opportunity?
i said that?

[Fixed]

bro this is great right from the horses mouth . man are we lucky to have the master to ask ..whatever he says is gospel in my book and a lot of other cats feel the same way thank you
cheers hic up :beer:

[Louis]

whatever he says is gospel in my book

Perhaps, and there are lots of factors to consider, but in the threaded vs threadless issue I think personal taste and aesthetics are an important part of the equation (at least for me). So what someone else says, although useful to the conversation, is not necessarily "gospel" or the final word.

Yes others here know a bunch more about building bikes that I do, but threaded vs threadless, is a decision I make myself (assuming I have a choice) and I'm guessing that if they can accommodate it, nearly any decent builder will respect that choice.

Louis

[Your_Friend!]

bro this is great right from the horses mouth . man are we lucky to have the master to ask ..whatever he says is gospel in my book and a lot of other cats feel the same way thank you
cheers hic up :beer:



Fixed!

I Agree!

e-Richie-san

Is _Very_ Knowledgeable!

And _So_ Nice To Share

His Wisdom!



Love,
Y_F!

[regularguy412]

For me, it's mostly an aesthetic issue. Seems that, in days of old, one almost never saw an upturned stem. Sure, there might have been a bit extra quill showing, or maybe even a tall spacer between the lock nut and the adjustable cup (on an uncut steerer), but in either case, the forward part of the stem was parallel ( or nearly parallel ) to the ground. One could buy the stem one thought was prettiest and then adjust it vertcally, while still maintaining a clean, horizontal line.

I suppose it really goes back to newer style frame dimensions and their manufacturing process. With the two biggest CF bicycle manufacturers selling monococque frames and having bascially 5 different sizes for consumers, the stem/steerer interface has become the point at which sizing adjustments for individual consumers takes place. If it puts more people on bikes and makes them fitter, then it's a good thing. I am just glad that there are builders like Serotta, Kirk, e-Richie, et. al., to whom consumers can still go to get custom bicycles. Then we can choose the stem and fork that we want.

Mike in AR

[93legendti]

the Salsa SUL Quill. I think Salsa could have done some interesting things with either colors, chrome, or anodizing these things. On a small diameter tubed steel frameset these look damned good to me.

http://aebike.com/page.cfm?PageID=30&action=details&sku=SM0022
Check the price...any color and style you want as long as it is black. $49.95 is a bargain.

[cadence90]

sometimes I think the ideal would be a quill stem with a removable faceplate so we could swap bars easily and still adjust the height w/o spacers, etc.
There were some. That horrendous Profile H20 or whatever; maybe Salsa made one; Cinelli had that weird Oyster thing, etc.
Deda Murex was not too ugly.

http://www.lastazionedellebiciclette.com/images/prodotti/murex_02.jpg

[jsiska]

Last November I purchased a 10 year old Serotta TG that had a 10cm Salsa quill stem. The handlebar was set way too low for my 58 year old body, and was about 1cm too far out in reach. The Salsa is a nice stem but it is too short to allow it to be raised much more than where it was when I bought the bike. I purchased a 9cm Nitto Technomic quill stem and adjusted it so that the handlebar is exactly one inch below the top of my saddle. As I age into my 60s, I still have a couple of inches to raise the handlebar should that be necessary. I couldn't be happier. It made the ride comfortable, and the Nitto looks very nice on that steel frame. If the bike had a threadless stem I would have had a greater problem adjusting the bike to by liking. When shopping for a previously owned bike the purchasher not only has to take in consideration of the size of the bike, but also how easily adjustments can be made to taylor the bike to his/her size to be comfortable. IMHO, it is easier to find a buyer for a bike if it has a quill stem than a threadless stem. There are so many varriables it looking for a previously used bike. Frame material, size, condition, etc., and being able to make adjustments easily is a positive.

Jim

[regularguy412]

There were some. That horrendous Profile H20 or whatever; maybe Salsa made one; Cinelli had that weird Oyster thing, etc.
Deda Murex was not too ugly.

http://www.lastazionedellebiciclette.com/images/prodotti/murex_02.jpg

Heck. I _LIKE_ the looks of that Deda Murex stem. Mebbe I'm just a sucker for those classic looking Italian quills.

Mike in AR

[saab2000]

Haven't ridden it yet. Not set up yet completely. But my best riding has taken place on threaded bikes. Being slower today has nothing to do with threadless or threaded forks.

Threadless is more traditional and looks better on a traditional (but modern) bike. No less good. Just different.

Threadless is the new paradigm. As is carbon and other things.

Nothing wrong with traditional. Nothing wrong with modern. Different. Same. Better. Worse. Hmmmm...... I have high hopes for my traditional Serotta with a threaded steel fork.

But it needs some racing tubular wheels with tied and soldered spokes!! :D

[Fixed]

bro you are taking your time with the build i bet it is going to be fine when you are done .it looks fantastic imho
cheers

[Brons2]

Let me say first, that I am out of it in terms of the reasons driving current bike trends.

I have a 7 year old steel Bianchi, horizontal top tube, Nitto stem to get the bars up to 1" below the saddle. Looks ok to me.

To get the bars up with threadless, it's some combination of:

sloping top tube
extended head tube
spacers
up-angle stem

I just don't like the look, and it makes no sense to me that threaded has gone away, except on custom bikes.

Just wondering why.

Bill

I just took my Rivendell to France for PBP and the theaded stem was very inconvenient for shipping in a bike box as I could not remove the handlebars from the stem without tearing off the brake levers, bar tape, etc. And being so big (I am 6'7") with large stem, 46 cm handlebars, etc, it did NOT want to fit in the box (Trico Iron Case) as a single assembly. I finally ended up tucking the the stem under the bottom layer of foam below the frame and the brake levers at the foam layer with the wheels, above the frame. This caused the box to bulge but oh well it got there.

On the way back I ripped the bar tape off, pulled the bar-end shifters out, removed the brake levers and removed the handlebars from the stem. Then it all fit very neatly but now I have to retape my bars and I can't figure out how to get those Campy bar-ends back into the holes at the end of my bars. To the shop I go....

My Paul Taylor is threadless and it would have been much easier. It has 4 bolts on the end of the stem to remove the handlebars, and then the stem is also removable from the fork.

Oh well.

[Brons2]

sometimes I think the ideal would be a quill stem with a removable faceplate so we could swap bars easily and still adjust the height w/o spacers, etc.

yeah. i would be for that.

[saab2000]

bro you are taking your time with the build i bet it is going to be fine when you are done .it looks fantastic imho
cheers

Taking my time because I have no time for other stuff!! I am in NYC at the moment..... Sitting on the left seat. Not overwhelmed, but breathing it all in! In my 'other life' of flying airplanes I have passed a major milestone and am just breathing the fine air where I sit now! I'll get back to the Serotta CSI this weekend.

BTW, the bike world is nicer! Ride report for the CSI soon I hope. It is further along than the pics show.

[michael white]

here's another option along the lines of what you're descibing. . .I don't have one, but have been thinking about it. Looks functional, haven't decided about the looks. It's at Tulio's Big Dog Cyclery.

best,
mw

[Brons2]

Taking my time because I have no time for other stuff!! I am in NYC at the moment..... Sitting on the left seat. Not overwhelmed, but breathing it all in! In my 'other life' of flying airplanes I have passed a major milestone and am just breathing the fine air where I sit now! I'll get back to the Serotta CSI this weekend.

BTW, the bike world is nicer! Ride report for the CSI soon I hope. It is further along than the pics show.

You upgraded to the left seat? Congrats. Are you still flying RJ's or are you mainline now?

[Brons2]

here's another option along the lines of what you're descibing. . .I don't have one, but have been thinking about it. Looks functional, haven't decided about the looks. It's at Tulio's Big Dog Cyclery.

best,
mw

FUGLY!!!

yuck!

[saab2000]

You upgraded to the left seat? Congrats. Are you still flying RJ's or are you mainline now?

Still flying the so-called RJs. Working harder than 'mainline'. Scheduled for 7:59 today. 1 Minute less than the legal max. And did 13 hours of duty time. Flying to China would have been easier. 5 legs and and out of KLGA today. Charlie Foxtrot.

Should get signed off on the left seat tomorrow. Fun, but like starting over!! 'Twas time for the next step.

[Louis]

I just took my Rivendell to France for PBP and the theaded stem was very inconvenient for shipping in a bike box as I could not remove the handlebars from the stem without tearing off the brake levers, bar tape, etc.

B,

Why not just remove the quill from the steerer tube? That's what I do when I ship my DeRosa.

Louiss

[Brons2]

B,

Why not just remove the quill from the steerer tube? That's what I do when I ship my DeRosa.

Louiss

I did remove the quill. The whole assembly is just massive considering my quill stem is both tall and long, and I run 46mm handlebars. It all fit neatly when disassembled, but I didn't want to do that on the way over owing to my freshly taped bars.

I used a Trico Iron Case. It may have been easier just to use AA's cardboard box. They sell one at the airport, not sure how much it is. It's a big box...118 inches l+w+h.

[taz-t]

why I like most quill stems...

[bw77]

Thanks for all the great repsonses to my question. I have a much better understanding about this now.

You guys are great!

Bill

[swoop]

what was wrong with wood rims?


i think the new stems are really a conspiracy started by hacksaw manufacturers...

[jcmuellner]

I used a Trico Iron Case. It may have been easier just to use AA's cardboard box. They sell one at the airport, not sure how much it is. It's a big box...118 inches l+w+h.

I have threaded and just pulled the quill, released cables (canti)...though bars are only 42cm. I saw threadless folks at the Campanile who had a stack of spacers they couldn't remember which order to put them back or lost one...

Wonder if some of these travel cases, like the Trico are too specific for more creative packing? I've used an old Colorado Cyclist coroplast box for two PBPs and it works quite well, though I do carry a little grocery trolley so I can wheel it around more easily.

Special bonus for this kind of case, even though my box was oversize at 90" l+w+h, it was under the 50lb mark and so no charge for baggage to France. I think the Trico alone is near 30lbs and an issue that my buddy had to contend with.

OK, I've drifted the thread far enough...

[michael white]

what was wrong with wood rims?


i think the new stems are really a conspiracy started by hacksaw manufacturers...


haliburton must be in on it