Knife Question (William inspired)

[Keith A]

William's post got me thinking again about carry some protection with me when I ride. With the increasing aggression/frustration of drivers on the road, I have often considered carrying something with me for protection if someone decided to get physical. I am certainly not an advocate for violence, but if a person got out of their vehicle to try and harm me (I have had this happen once before) I would like to be able to deter them from doing so or be able to protect myself.

So William's choice of protection seemed like a good option and wanted find out more about knife choices. So is the Spyderco Endura the way to go? You would certainly want something that is very resistant to rust as it would often be damp from sweat.

What do you guys/gals think?

[davidlee]

Pepper spray is the way to go.

[Spinner]

to generate real or fake calls to the police are incredible defensive weapons.

[CNY rider]

You would certainly want something that is very resistant to rust as it would often be damp from sweat.

What do you guys/gals think?


.357 stainless would fit the bill quite nicely.

A bit heavy and it does stretch the jersey pockets......

[Michael Maddox]

No. A knife is NOT the way to go. In the case of an attack, an untrained and emotionally agitated knife-carrier is:
1) going to have the knife taken away from him
2) going to be stuck with the knife

Additionally, brandishing a weapon of that sort is going to escalate an encounter to the realm of assault. If you wave this about, you are assaulting someone with a deadly weapon, regardless of the incidence of battery. If your assailant is willing to escalate, you are now likely to be shot or otherwise injured or killed. If not, you are likely to be arrested once your assailant reaches a phone. There is NO use for a weapon as a deterrent.

The first rule of these encounters:
1) avoid them. Run, ride, flee such encounters.

Assuming this is not possible, and you do, in fact, fear for your life:
2) act to kill. Do NOT act to disable, maim, or frighten. Act to KILL.

There is no middle ground here. If you are going to carry a deadly weapon you MUST know how to use it and be WILLING to use it to kill.

Forgive me for being so blunt, but it's VERY important that you realize this: carrying a knife for protection is one of the dumbest things you could do. If you feel your life is threatened, you will not be in a position to defend it. If you don't, you have now assaulted another human being, regardless of what he/she yelled at you. I BEG you. Don't do this.

Consider carefully your needs for defense. Most people shouldn't carry anything at all, but simply flee in the most expedient manner. Indeed, that is the BEST course of action in most situations, armed or not. If you must carry a weapon, it should be a legally-obtained and -carried firearm that you are competent to carry and use.

[gt6267a]

My guess is that if you are not practiced / trained in using a knife, in an excited state (as you surely will be in a fight if you don’t do it often) the knife will be as dangerous to you as your attacker.

Unless you have experience fighting, I think the best thing you carry with you is a level head with the ability to know when to reason and when to run. A cell phone to call the police seems like a good idea. Maybe pepper spray, but, again, unless you practice with it, I bet in a high strain situation you are as likely to spray yourself as the attacker.

Instead of buying a knife, maybe buy self-defense lessons?

edit : MM's advice seems quite good. What do you gain by engaging someone in this type of conflict?

[Keith A]

Michael -- You make some very good points! I certainly agree that avoiding any confrontation is the best solution (which is what I did when a driver exited his truck and came after me). Even though I am trained and experienced with both handguns and rifles, I am not ready to carry a handgun with me. However, I do think that the pepper spray option might be something to consider.

[Kevan]

to a gun fight. I'm ag'n such steps.

[93legendti]

William's post got me thinking again about carry some protection with me when I ride. With the increasing aggression/frustration of drivers on the road, I have often considered carrying something with me for protection if someone decided to get physical. I am certainly not an advocate for violence, but if a person got out of their vehicle to try and harm me (I have had this happen once before) I would like to be able to deter them from doing so or be able to protect myself.

So William's choice of protection seemed like a good option and wanted find out more about knife choices. So is the Spyderco Endura the way to go? You would certainly want something that is very resistant to rust as it would often be damp from sweat.

What do you guys/gals think?

Well, let's see. If the attacker got out of his/her car, the attacker would be on foot and you'd have your bike. You could ride away. If the attacker had a gun and you had a knife, you'd be in trouble--unless you can emulate the closing scene in "The Warriors". If you had a knife and the attacker had a knife, you could ride away. So, what good does a knife do you?

What William did was break the law and, imho, dumb. Bill Pearl once said "Big pecs do not stop bullets". I do not care how big you are, deliberately breaking something on someone's car as a pure act of revenge is stupid and illegal. Take down the license plate #, call the police. Choose zone 5 and escape.

[J.Greene]

Keith,

with FL's new laws re: deadly force I think that pulling a knife would get you killed and it may even be OK in the eyes of the law when your not around to tell your side of the story. I like to joke about carrying a 10mm Colt Delta Elite, but I really think it's a bad idea. If your roads are that bad, I'd just reconsider commuting or put up with the danger. Pulling a knife is not the answer.

JG

[deechee]

wouldn't you want a nice rusty knife to stab someone with so you can maximize bacterial infection? haha.

Seriously though I'm with the others. I won't carry anything I'm not afraid won't be used against me. Heck I cut myself with the kitchen knife often enough.

Sigh. I hope you never get yourself into that kind of situation. I always thought running away was cowardly but I think its the best solution for any normal person. All the more reason to do some triathlons; at least I can swim and run away fairly quickly when need be :D

[Too Tall]

You want to get that close?

How about running shoes. Dewd.

PS - Dewd

[david]

in an earlier thread, didn't somebody mention throwing stars?
now THAT'S a reason to switch to shimano :banana:

[Chris]

I tell em that I am not the droid they are looking for...

The throwing star thread gets a close second for my vote :)

[konstantkarma]

I have been carrying a can of pepper spray in my right jersey pocket for years. It is the 2 oz size that shoots a 20 ft. stream Pepper Spray (http://www.pepper-spray-store.com/products/policehome-2_15.html) . I originally started carrying it to dissuade relentless dogs, but I have never had to use it on canines or homo sapiens. The instructions warn you to make sure you never spray it into the wind! :no:

[Keith A]

Okay guys, you have certainly convinced me that carry a knife for protection is indeed a bad idea -- although I was never convinced it was a good idea in the first place. Your replies helped cement this in my mind.

However, pepper spray may be an option worth considering.

[davidlee]

Obviously the best idea to to get the License plate and call but 911 but if the driver gets out of the vehicle and you can't get away, having pepper spray will, AS A LAST RESORT, stop him from attacking you . It's simple to use and absolutely better than nothing.
It is also so small and portable that once you have it, you will never forget to bring it . Many times I've been out in the middle of nowhere, had some Psycho flip me off , and wonder if he was waiting around the next corner with a 2x4. A quick check o' the jersey pocket to flip the switch to "On" and I feel ALOT more secure. Out there, there is no running away and no cell coverage . It's not a cure-all but at least a little insurance.
david

[itsflantastic]

No. A knife is NOT the way to go. In the case of an attack, an untrained and emotionally agitated knife-carrier is:
1) going to have the knife taken away from him
2) going to be stuck with the knife

Additionally, brandishing a weapon of that sort is going to escalate an encounter to the realm of assault. If you wave this about, you are assaulting someone with a deadly weapon, regardless of the incidence of battery. If your assailant is willing to escalate, you are now likely to be shot or otherwise injured or killed. If not, you are likely to be arrested once your assailant reaches a phone. There is NO use for a weapon as a deterrent.


+1

[imp25rs]

As someone who collects knives I would say get some pepper spray. You don't have to be right next to the person to use it. Plus, you are on the bike so you don't have to stay in the area. I carry a knife all the time and NEVER pull it out during a confrontation. :no: It is just asking for more trouble.

If you are looking for a a good pocket knife I would suggest Benchmade. I beat the crap out of mine and never have a problem with them. Spyderco is good too, I just don't care much for the design of them.

[bostondrunk]

...
What William did was break the law and, imho, dumb.

I believe Willy's post about the honda encounter was a joke, no?
:cool:

[William]

First and foremost, don't ever carry a weapon you are not prepared to use. Be it a firearm, edged, or impact weapon (That includes pepper spray). I carry an Endura for a lot of reasons, least of which is to use against another person. But, I am trained to use one if (god forbid), the need ever arose. Even then, 99% of the time I would use it as a fist load and not even open it. I wouldn't advocate anyone carry a weapon they are not trained to use under stress. Now, when I say "trained", I'm including adrenal stress training where someone is forcefully trying to attack you and you must learn to function through the adrenaline dump that happens when the chit hits the fan. The thing is, that is where most people fall apart. I've seen high ranking martial artists fall apart when really pressed. They were great at point sparring and doing forms and thought that would carry over to self-defense situations. It doesn't for the majority of people. That being said, I would never recommend that anyone carry an edged weapon without the requisite training.

Understand, a knife is a truly nasty weapon. It's not something to be toyed with or carried for self-protection on a whim. It's too easy to cut your self, and it's too easy to hurt someone else.

One of the systems I train and teach is based off of bladed weapons. But, once the mechanics are learned, the same movements carry over to impact weapons and open hand. Essentially, I can pick up just about anything and use it for self-defense. Remember the movie The Borne Identity? How Damon's character would pick things up and use them, pens included? That's kali (Arnis, Eskrima).

I am a big guy, that's true. I have never been one to use it or walk around and look for trouble....well, that's not true for my 20 something drinking days, but I digress. Avoiding situations is first. De-escalation techniques are second. And if that doesn't work, and there is no way out, knowing what to do and having the control to take it as far as it needs to go is key. A simple motto I adhere to is:



I would rather know it and not need it,

then need it and not know it.

A slight variation:

I would rather have it and not need it,

then need it and not have it.



Since 93legendTi has called the Police on me, it's time for me to apologize. If you go back and look at my post on the stem encounter, I edited it minutes after posting it stating that everything happened except - the encounter with the Honda. I had a beautiful ride that day except for getting buzzed by a Honda. As I rode on I started thinking it would be fun if.... That day dream led to my posting it to liven things up. I figured it was so over the top that folks would catch it right off. At first it was fun waiting to see who caught it (My Cuz RA called me on it in a PM). I was going to fess up but then things got real busy, the teachers in my area are on strike and we have no where for our children to be right now so Mrs William and my self are tag teaming and I just haven't been on the forum much the last couple of days. I finally get on and I see old 93 branding me as a hoodlum and menace to society. Sorry folks, I didn't mean to let it go that long, or to get 93's panties all bunched up. ;)







William

PS: Even with Pepper spray, by a couple of cans and practice getting it out, and firing it off. Become familiar with how it sprays, how far the stream goes etc. The time to get familiar with it is not when you really need it.

[LesMiner]

I believe Willy's post about the honda encounter was a joke, no?
:cool:

The post did read like something you would like to do but never actually do, especially after a confrontation with an idoit driver. In my version I would have cut two valve stems so that the driver would need a tow because cars typically have only one spare.

[weisan]

told ya...it's just a movie. :cool:

[Tom]

Stick 'em with quills! It's the only way!

[93legendti]

I believe Willy's post about the honda encounter was a joke, no?
:cool:

I don't know, but I see by his next post it probably was. I only read William's first post and didn't go back and check it. That said, seems like the OP might have been basing this thread on W's original post. Sorry William, no panties in a bunch here--you're only a menace and a hoodlum to imaginary valve stems. :)

[chrisroph]

Get a cross bike and ride in the dirt where there are no cars.

[bostondrunk]

willy eats peppa spray for breakfast!! Rhea eats the waffles..

[palincss]

William's post got me thinking again about carry some protection with me when I ride. With the increasing aggression/frustration of drivers on the road, I have often considered carrying something with me for protection if someone decided to get physical. I am certainly not an advocate for violence, but if a person got out of their vehicle to try and harm me (I have had this happen once before) I would like to be able to deter them from doing so or be able to protect myself.

So William's choice of protection seemed like a good option and wanted find out more about knife choices. So is the Spyderco Endura the way to go? You would certainly want something that is very resistant to rust as it would often be damp from sweat.

What do you guys/gals think?

I think dog spray would be a whole lot easier to explain should the cops come, and I'd certainly feel a lot better about using it in a situation you describe than I would about trying to stab someone. Apropos of William's comment about the need for practice, I'm sure you could find an obliging dog that would give you both cause and opportunity to practice.

[Keith A]

Apropos of William's comment about the need for practice, I'm sure you could find an obliging dog that would give you both cause and opportunity to practice.Got two of those right across the street. The owners will often let their dogs roam around without a leash and they come and poop in our yard -- and the boxer gets very aggressive and has chased my wife into our house. BTW, I realize that owners that are the real problem and not the dogs.

[gdw]

Leave the dogs alone and test spray the owners.

[Too Tall]

Yo Kef! I do want to share something that I've used more than once effectively. If you are challenged begin repeating their tag number out loud and say it loudly. Works.

[Sandy]

Got two of those right across the street. The owners will often let their dogs roam around without a leash and they come and poop in our yard -- and the boxer gets very aggressive and has chased my wife into our house. BTW, I realize that owners that are the real problem and not the dogs.

I suggest that you report the dogs to animal control in your area.


Sandy

[Keith A]

Sandy -- I have reported them to Animal Control, but they stated they didn't have the resources to come out for every animal on the loose. All they would do is send a letter to the owner. They did tell me if I wanted to restrain the dogs, they'd try and get by sometime :rolleyes:

This is from their website...

Why does it take so long for Animal Enforcement Officer’s to respond? We are a small department in comparison to other county agencies in Brevard County. The faster response of other agencies is due to their greater numbers. We average a little over 300 calls for service daily. There are over 5,000 police, fire and rescue providers including City, County, State and Federal agencies to cover all of Brevard County. BASE has about 15 Animal Enforcement Officers to provide the same coverage area 24 hours per day. This is a ratio of better than 333 to 1. The animal populace exponentially outnumbers the people populous in Brevard County by an even greater ratio. There are over 23 cities and townships in addition to unincorporated areas of Brevard County, which we provide full coverage with approximately 15 field officers 24 hours per day, 7 days per week. According to the last census, Brevard had a population of approximately 495,000 residents. Divide this by 15 Animal Enforcement Officers and it comes out to one officer for every 33,000 residents and we have one animal enforcement officer for about every 200,00 square miles in Brevard County.

[C5 Snowboarder]

I have agree with those above in the Carry No weapons approach. Sounds great on the surface but unless you are trained in the art and PRACTICE the art - forgetaboutit. Also-- you will be in more trouble than the other guy 99% of the time -- it will be a felony on your record if you live.

Cell phone and license number is the best approach. The days of Teddy Roosevelt are over “Bike softly but carry a big stick" just doesn’t fly in most states.. Florida and Texas excluded.

[Ozz]

...luckily I had my camera phone for protection. They posed, then rode off to pester someone else.

[Kevan]

...luckily I had my camera phone for protection. They posed, then rode off to pester someone else.

but when it's Sandy doing the pesterin' that camera phone of yours ain't gonna do diddlysquat.

[toaster]

Nowadays we have the ubiquitous cell phone with camera option.

If you find yourself about to be involved in a confrontation with a motorist use the camera feature to take a picture of the license plate and then ready it to take a picture of the offending motorist's face if he/she starts to confront you.

This will provoke the attacker, if they are so inclined, to direct their attention to getting the cell phone in their possession since it is potentially incriminating or they will change their intentions and verbally abuse you but will want to leave.

One weapon readily available to me is my bicycle. I will use it to create space between me and my attacker and I will use it to beat them back.

911 is very slow but may buy you time by dialing it and telling the abuser you will have the operator on the phone to witness the verbal exchange if the motorist is going to get into an argument and doesn't appear to want a fight.

Regarding physical confrontations, I'll reserve comment since I'd know what I'd do if I was in a fight for my life but I don't want to suggest it as an option unless it is absolutely necessary. In that case, it's every man for himself and good luck in court.

[Elefantino]

I am a chicken. Although I'm 6-5, I prefer to smile and wave. If someone yells at me at a stoplight, I say, "Have a nice day!"

I don't know what I'd do in a confrontation. I'd probably try to pull a Paul Newman-as-Butch Cassidy and obfuscate before kicking the assailant in the peaches.

But I can't imagine carrying a weapon on a ride. And we have some parts of Jacksonville where that would be the rule, or at least required.

Either way … as Rodney said, "Tough crowd. Tough crowd."

[beungood]

Pepper spray isn't always the answer either. It is not 100% effective , I have sprayed alot of people at work and it does not always work and you have to also consider cross contamination, will you be able to effect your escape of you catch some of the spray which has been blown back into your face from wind? Also with weapons laws , If you use it on someone it is the same as a knife (at least here) Assualt & Battery with a Dangerous weapon.

Wliiam has touched on the Cardinal rule, DO NOT use A Weapon unless you are mentally prepared to use it and it includes the ability to deploy it while under duress.

And if you still have to go hot,being able to ARTICULATE WHY you did it will go a long way in keeping you out of trouble (I was in fear of dying, bodily in jury.. etc) The knife was in my pocket as it usually is, ; a weapon of opportunity..

Stay safe!

[rwsaunders]

Pepper spray isn't always the answer either. It is not 100% effective , I have sprayed alot of people at work and it does not always work and you have to also consider cross contamination, will you be able to effect your escape of you catch some of the spray which has been blown back into your face from wind?

Sounds like a tough crowd lurks in your office.

[JohnS]

Sounds like a tough crowd lurks in your office.
I believe he's a cop.
From the general responses I've read here over the years, almost none of you should carry a weapon since you don't have the proper training or mindset.

[ada@prorider.or]

William's post got me thinking again about carry some protection with me when I ride. With the increasing aggression/frustration of drivers on the road, I have often considered carrying something with me for protection if someone decided to get physical. ?



i would go for get ready to do track racing or find another hobby

[Dekonick]

:crap: :D :confused:

Personally I wave and smile - even when deep down I am burning with rage and fear at almost being smooshed.

:)

[mflaherty37]

What you need is a penis shaped squirt gun with milk in it.

[rwsaunders]

I believe he's a cop.
From the general responses I've read here over the years, almost none of you should carry a weapon since you don't have the proper training or mindset.

I sort of figured that out, as not too many people outside of the postal service take out their fellow employees. :cool:

[Kevan]

PBS Nova has an upcoming special on the history, design and making of the samurai sword.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/samurai/