Threshold Power?

[Geoff]

I have started a somewhat more controled and methodical training program and as part of it I did a 20 min threshold test. Not having a good long hill or a good long flat in the area I did my test on the trainer. I have a 1up tariner which is supposed to have a pretty good power curve if you know your speed. Well teh test went well, I think I could have whent a little harder but for a first try pretty good. Heres the question my Avg HR was 177 for the 20 min and my watts from the 1up chart was approximatly 160 watts. Does that number seem low? I can ride the A group with out any fear of getting dropped and do some work on the front. Is this a reasonable number or is the trainer way off. I know it will be off by some and is only an approximation but it just seems low.

What do you all think. btw I wieght about 178 and am 6'1" and ride about 8 hrs a week and race 4s when the race is close.

Geoff - still in denile about my terreible power output.

[Chris]

That's too low based on your height and weight. You either did some math wrong or the estimate is just off on the trainer. If you aren't going to use a power meter don't worry about equating it to watts. Those numbers can just be intimidating anyway. What you want to know is are YOU making any progress. Repeat the test every month or so and see if you are going further each time. The trainer is best for this because it is consistent. The only drawback is that motivation can be difficult on the trainer.

[dtandy]

Geoff,

That number seems low to me. I go about 170 lbs and ride a similar amount to you. I have a Nashbar trainer with a power meter and at 160 watts the intensity of my effort is pretty low and easy to sustain for a long time (hours, not minutes). Now, the Nashbar trainer could be off but I also have a couple of nice climbs where I live and have used the vertical gain, mass and ascent time numbers to calculate my power output on the climbs. The numbers that I get are in the 260 watt range for time frames in the 13 to 15 minute range and I hurt on the climbs. My common experience between the trainer and the climbs have been intervals that I've ridden in the 250 watt to 350 watt range on the trainer depending upon duration. The intensity effort feels very similar at 260 watts on the trainer and at 260 watts on the climbs.

My guess is that your trainer is off. If you are able to hang on A rides and take a few pulls on the front, I think you should be looking at numbers well over 200 watts for a 20 minute effort. That's a swag on my part but it should be in the ballpark.

Also, without knowing your max heart rate, 177 bpm doesn't provide much information. What is your max heart rate?

Dave

[1centaur]

I have a Computrainer which is supposed to be very accurate on watts and I'd say 160 is obviously very wrong given your Cat 4 abilities. Well over 200 is much more likely.

[david]

definitely low.
for reference, i'm 50 years old, 5'8" and i can hold 270 watts for half an hour.
that's measured on a computrainer, cross checked with both an ergomo and a powertap.
and believe me, i'm hardly gifted. i can hang with the 5s. maybe, maybe the 4s. but at your size and your ability to hang in an A race, yo gotta be pushing way, way over 200. more likely near 300.
check the protocol and your math. you should be happier with the number :banana:

[GregL]

Definitely sounds low. I'm a 6', 175 lb. masters 40+ Cat. 4. I've done a VO2 max test at a local university on a cycling ergometer that showed ~325 watts at threshold. That seems about right based on my 10 mile TT times and hill climb numbers.

Any way to calibrate your trainer? Regardless, the reply about your relative power increase over time is very appropriate. If you are getting stronger and racing well, the numbers are really not important.

Rgards,
Greg

[Too Tall]

How come I've got a diff. answer than everybody else???

The number is the number...whatever. Forget the number. If you repeat the test, see consistent HR and the "number" remains steady than that is your CP20 using that setup on that date. This will not translate to on the road using a diff. method for measuring your power in watts. Keep doing what you are doing and I'm positive you'll see that reproducable testing scenarios using consistent equipment/condtions etc. is far more important than seeing true watts.

I'm pretty jazzed that you are into doing some testing it really is an essential element for understanding how to train effectively very very kewl.

[zank]

Listen to Too Tall. He's the power man. :beer:

[david]

using consistent equipment/condtions etc. is far more important than seeing true watts.



word.

[wanderingwheel]

Here's one more opinion for you. Since you're doing this test inside, your power will trend lower than if you are on the road due to heat. "Bicycling Science" (I think that's the book) says that it only takes 10 minutes to overheat and fail inside at the same power that you can hold for over an hour outside. From my own experience with a Powertap, I could stay in the high 200's on the road, but would start to have problems on the trainer once I got above 200 for very long.

[Geoff]

thanks for all the input.

First off my max HR is about 205 age 35 and my HR while excercising has always been elevated compared to others.

Thanks TT the test was really just to set the HR zones, but since there was this power chart with the trainer I was curious. You are right it is the change between tests that's the proof of the pud'in.

I was out on a group ride on Sat and was climing a hill about 5% for about 0.5 mles and one of the guys riding next to me (he's about the same size as me) had a SRM. I peaked over and he was putting out about 315 watts. This effort felt pretty close to my 20min test effort. Not that that means anything but it sure does make me feel better than mister 160.

Geoff

[LesMiner]

I use a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine trainer. Last Winter I set up my trainer and worked my way up to maintain a constant 20 mph on my cycle computer. That relates to 250 watts according to Kurt's power curve (http://www.kurtkinetic.com/powercurve.php) I am 60 so I am way older than you so my max heart rate is considerably lower. That does not mean my ability to output power would be that much less than you. Try using the power output based on speed on the trainer rather than heart rate. At 250 watts I was at 130 bpm HR. For you that HR would be insignificant, not even a sweat. When I was young and skinny an easy spin on a trainer for me would be 150 bpm HR easily.

[Sandy]

definitely low.
for reference, i'm 50 years old, 5'8" and i can hold 270 watts for half an hour.
that's measured on a computrainer, cross checked with both an ergomo and a powertap.
and believe me, i'm hardly gifted. i can hang with the 5s. maybe, maybe the 4s. but at your size and your ability to hang in an A race, yo gotta be pushing way, way over 200. more likely near 300.
check the protocol and your math. you should be happier with the

"number :banana:

"...i'm 50 years old, 5'8" and I can hold 270 watts for half an hour...." Big deal! I am 66 years old, 6' 0" and I can hold a conversation for about 10 minutes..I then start to doze off..... :) :)


Sleepy Simpleton Serotta Sandy

[stevep]

you entered your weight wrong.
thats my pick.
you put pounds and it asked for kg.

[ada@prorider.or]

my buddy world class
53 years
340 watts 1 hours
hart rate 160

[david]

"...i'm 50 years old, 5'8" and I can hold 270 watts for half an hour...." Big deal! I am 66 years old, 6' 0" and I can hold a conversation for about 10 minutes..I then start to doze off..... :) :)


Sleepy Simpleton Serotta Sandy

sandy,
you got me beat by about 9 minutes on the conversation thing... wait, what were we talking about? ;)

[Geoff]

I use a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine trainer. Last Winter I set up my trainer and worked my way up to maintain a constant 20 mph on my cycle computer. That relates to 250 watts according to Kurt's power curve (http://www.kurtkinetic.com/powercurve.php) I am 60 so I am way older than you so my max heart rate is considerably lower. That does not mean my ability to output power would be that much less than you. Try using the power output based on speed on the trainer rather than heart rate. At 250 watts I was at 130 bpm HR. For you that HR would be insignificant, not even a sweat. When I was young and skinny an easy spin on a trainer for me would be 150 bpm HR easily.

I was using speed not HR. 1up has a chart that compares its value to the Kirt and the Cycleops trainers. I figure the way they calibrate it has alot to do with the numbers. I use 25mm PR2 tires and it has to depend alot on how much tire presure you run and how tight the drum on the trainer is to the tire. any how I need to find some one with a SRM or PT hub to come over and calibrate it for me.