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Frank
08-23-2007, 11:11 PM
and I swear I will never again buy a complete bike if it has to be shipped. Never, ever, under any circumstances :crap:

When I got home today I had two boxes sitting on my front porch. The Pinarello had arrived! I went to bring them in and saw the big box had a big black mark about the width of a tire (hint, hint!) and the side and top of the box at that site were smashed in.

I was hoping it was just cosmetic damage to the box, so I opened the box lid to look in. The bike was packed very well...sturdy bike box, pipe insulation on all the tubes, bubble wrap, extra cardboard around the sides, even shipped the wheels in a separate box to keep them from scratching the frame, etc.

The first problem I noticed was an STI shifter lever bent at a 90 degree angle...not good. I then moved the pipe insulation off the top tube to see if all was well there...it wasn't. The top tube is crushed and almost touching on the sides. I needed to see no more, so I called FedEx, filed a phone claim, took some pics, closed the box back up, and will send the boxes back and fax a claim to them tomorrow.

I had sworn I would not buy anymore complete bikes, but this one was such a great bike and deal that I fell off the no-buying-complete-bikes-that-have-to-be-shipped wagon. I will never, ever, under any circumstances make that mistake again.

Your_Friend!
08-23-2007, 11:14 PM
Frank!

I Am Mad!

And _So_ Sorry!

Love,
Your_Friend!

SWorks4me
08-23-2007, 11:15 PM
...your first clue should've been, the Orbea box and not a Pinarello box.

J/K, I am truly sorry. I hope Fed-Ex and whoever shipped it can work something out with you. Good luck, and keep us posted.

fierte_poser
08-23-2007, 11:16 PM
Oh snap! :crap:

chuckroast
08-23-2007, 11:17 PM
Arrrrgggghhhhh, that tire mark is gruesome.

Sorry about the disapointment. Hope the claim goes smoothly.

Lincoln
08-23-2007, 11:20 PM
Those last two pic.s make me want to cry. Good luck with your claim, I hope it goes smoothly.

stackie
08-23-2007, 11:25 PM
That is absolutely ridiculous. These shipping goons are crazy these days. They "accidentally" drove over it with a truck?

So far this year, they managed to kill my espresso machine (double boxed with foam peanuts inside inner box and between boxes) and a Vanilla print that Sacha shipped out. On the Vanilla print, they punctured the box right through the "fragile" label.

Jon

cmg
08-23-2007, 11:41 PM
bastards............ post about the claim process. FEDEX did this?

swoop
08-23-2007, 11:43 PM
what did they do, drive a forklift over it? that's ridiculous damage.

Steelhead
08-23-2007, 11:45 PM
Thats a damn shame. Does the seller have another - or was this a one off deal? Best of luck. :confused:

PK9
08-23-2007, 11:54 PM
I am SO SORRY for you.

That's the saddest thing I've heard all day.

Good luck.

jimcav
08-24-2007, 12:07 AM
i had one bike damaged by fedex--something punctured the box like a spear. i filed the claim. it was inspected and they even slapped a "sorry we damaged it " label on the box. then they denied it and said the SHIPPER had to file it. and so they did, and then fedex denied it saying it was "inadequately packed". it was all well wrapped but something punctured the box.

anyway, i wish you luck and hope they treat you better.

sn69
08-24-2007, 12:08 AM
Sympathies, amigo. Not cool in the least. :cool: :crap:

Frank
08-24-2007, 12:08 AM
I ship all of my frames via FedEx, because they have been so much better than UPS was when I used them. I have only had one claim with FedEx, and that was as a shipper. Sent a f/f to a fellow and looked like a fork lift tine went through the box and bent the seat stay badly. I submitted a FedEx claim on Wed, they picked up the f/f from the fellow on Thursday, they contacted me the following Tuesday and said their claims person had looked at it, said the packing was great and it was their fault, and paid me in full immediately.

I have seen some complete bikes I would have liked to own, including some on this forum, but the complete bike shipping issue (usually poor packing job but definitely not the case here) kept me away. This one was too pretty and such a good deal I couldn't say no, but I have learned my lesson forever again :crap:

Archibald
08-24-2007, 12:11 AM
i had one bike damaged by fedex--something punctured the box like a spear. i filed the claim. it was inspected and they even slapped a "sorry we damaged it " label on the box. then they denied it and said the SHIPPER had to file it. and so they did, and then fedex denied it saying it was "inadequately packed". it was all well wrapped but something punctured the box.

anyway, i wish you luck and hope they treat you better.
Sounds like every Fedex claim I've ever had.

Frank, I'm sorry for your disappointment and hope Fedex does right by you; shipping damage can really harsh your mellow.

coylifut
08-24-2007, 01:00 AM
i've had two ups claims. 1 bike and 1 computer. the made me whole each time with out trouble. i've never used fed-ex. i hope yours goes smoothly. it's going to be hard to deny that claim with those tire marks.

cleavel
08-24-2007, 01:09 AM
Hello,

That is very sad. :(

Hope that the claim goes smoothly but money won't replace a classic bike like that. Much better luck in the future.

ecl2k
08-24-2007, 01:26 AM
There must be some misunderstanding, that's their new model with advanced pina-recked geometry, pina-ruined tubing, and top-tube PowerDent (forzammaccatura) which was manufactured in collaboration with Michelin technology.

alancw3
08-24-2007, 04:14 AM
i'm with you on shipping complete bikes. it's like playing craps. you never know. every time i send or receive a bike i am like on pins and needles throughout it's whole journey. almost not worth the hassle anymore. i think things have gotten a lot worse with the common shippers. imho. sorry about your loss.

bostondrunk
08-24-2007, 05:23 AM
What model pina was it??
Hopefully the parts and wheels are OK, since as others said, you probably won't get anything any time soon out of FedEx....

William
08-24-2007, 05:51 AM
Man, that sucks. It's not even mine and I grimaced when I saw those photos. They obviously ran that over with a fork lift.

I feel for you. :crap:



William

Fixed
08-24-2007, 06:47 AM
bro fed ex sux .imho

weisan
08-24-2007, 07:54 AM
I am sorry Frank. What a bummer.

DfCas
08-24-2007, 08:18 AM
Sorry to see such damage on such a nice frame. I hope it all works out for you.

I don't understand,however,how a frameset only would have fared any better. Can someone enlighten me?

CNY rider
08-24-2007, 08:20 AM
Reminds me of an episode of a TV show (don't think it's on anymore) about Southwest Airlines.

There was a woman flying southwest to her wedding. Somehow her gown got dropped when they were loading the luggage and it looked like they ran over it with the plane.

Wasn't really white any more.

vandeda
08-24-2007, 08:24 AM
Frank that's horrible. It amazes me that they would have the audacity to just drop off the box at your place like nothing happened ... they freakin' drove over the box, it should be quite evident that something got damaged. People these days really tick me off ... no one seems to want to take responsibility for anything it seems. I hope it all gets worked out for you!

Tom
08-24-2007, 08:25 AM
Reminds me of an episode of a TV show (don't think it's on anymore) about Southwest Airlines.

There was a woman flying southwest to her wedding. Somehow her gown got dropped when they were loading the luggage and it looked like they ran over it with the plane.

Wasn't really white any more.

Maybe they knew her.

regularguy412
08-24-2007, 08:34 AM
Maybe they knew her.

LOL

-- in a biblical sense, no doubt.

Mike in AR

regularguy412
08-24-2007, 08:38 AM
During the last month or so, I've been helping out the LBS by building up their new bikes as they come in. I've seen at least 3 bikes come in with some kind of damage. So far, the rate seems to be,, about every third shipment there is one bike with shipper-induced issues. Some are only cosmetic, i.e., minor paint scratches. However, one came in with the steerer end of the fork and top nut crushed in. Looks like only the fork needs to be replaced, but will have to cut the steer tube/ nut off to get the fork out.

This stuff happens. Makes me glad ( and feel extremely lucky ) that my CSI made to to Saratoga Springs and back without incident.

Mike in AR

stevep
08-24-2007, 09:02 AM
too bad.
hope it comes out ok.
shipping is getting worse and worse.
tons of pressure on the guys delivering the stuff.
any ups drivers here?
those guys work their arses off imo.

Jeff N.
08-24-2007, 09:08 AM
I've had a FEDEX claim. It was a few years back. It was a vintage Sansui G-901DB stereo receiver that looked like it'd been dropped out of a 7th floor window. I had to keep on 'em. FEDEX eventually coughed up every cent. A happy ending. Jeff N.

Ozz
08-24-2007, 09:17 AM
...shipping is getting worse and worse.
tons of pressure on the guys delivering the stuff.
any ups drivers here?
those guys work their arses off imo.
I worked on a loading dock for a shipping company when I first got out of college for a couple months...it was all about the number of packages moved during your shift...the supervisors checked in every hour to make sure you were on track...it was a weird environment.

Sorry about the bike....

jerk
08-24-2007, 10:11 AM
any ups drivers here?
those guys work their arses off imo.

and don't know how to use zippers.

jerk

Bobbo
08-24-2007, 10:22 AM
I worked on a loading dock for a shipping company when I first got out of college for a couple months...it was all about the number of packages moved during your shift...the supervisors checked in every hour to make sure you were on track...it was a weird environment.

Sorry about the bike....

I worked for UPS, part time, while in college. $8/hr, and that was like all the money in the world to me. But I earned every stinking cent. Froze my A55 off in the winter, loading packages out of a truck onto a conveyor. I hated the supervisor - he would stand at the end of the truck with a stopwatch and clipboard and count your packages per minute.

Everyone in that company hustled their nuts off, believe me. To this day, I will not get in the way of a UPS driver making a delivery. And yes, there were plenty of goons, and lots of damaged shipments. I guess it's a crapshoot.

dave thompson
08-24-2007, 11:07 AM
.Everyone in that company hustled their nuts off, believe me. To this day, I will not get in the way of a UPS driver making a delivery. From the UPS website: "UPS drivers typically earn US$27.34 an hour (straight time)."

norman neville
08-24-2007, 11:28 AM
too bad.
hope it comes out ok.
shipping is getting worse and worse.
tons of pressure on the guys delivering the stuff.
any ups drivers here?
those guys work their arses off imo.

it can be very physical and those guys do work their butts off and do get hurt and have to work through nasty pain for not much money. and they get their balz busted constantly over nonsense.

the worst thing to see are the older guys still making deliveries who need the money. sure, it was fun when they were young. they'd go out drinking every night, work long hours the next day, have some cash for hookers and smack. then the years go by, they've got a wife and a kid or three and they're not so young anymore. it takes months to shrug off the wrecked shoulder or knee, but they need the money now and taking a lower-paying job is not an option.

the ups drivers are lucky they have the union behind them. i've known guys who were badly injured on the job who got the care and were able to come back to their jobs, keeping their route or whatever. the job sucks. i wouldn't want it.

i also shipped a frame across the country once, with thousands of dollars of insurance making it a special handling, high-value package. the thing never showed on their tracking until it got to the sort center a week later, the day before delivery. oops.

Tailwinds
08-24-2007, 11:31 AM
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

OUCH! That hurts to look at, and it's not mine! I'm sorry that happened to your bike, Frank.

BumbleBeeDave
08-24-2007, 11:51 AM
it can be very physical and those guys do work their butts off and do get hurt and have to work through nasty pain for not much money. and they get their balz busted constantly over nonsense.

the worst thing to see are the older guys still making deliveries who need the money. sure, it was fun when they were young. they'd go out drinking every night, work long hours the next day, have some cash for hookers and smack. then the years go by, they've got a wife and a kid or three and they're not so young anymore. it takes months to shrug off the wrecked shoulder or knee, but they need the money now and taking a lower-paying job is not an option.

the ups drivers are lucky they have the union behind them. i've known guys who were badly injured on the job who got the care and were able to come back to their jobs, keeping their route or whatever. the job sucks. i wouldn't want it.

i also shipped a frame across the country once, with thousands of dollars of insurance making it a special handling, high-value package. the thing never showed on their tracking until it got to the sort center a week later, the day before delivery. oops.

I feel for them. But regardless of their work conditions--everyone thinks they're overworked and underpaid--it doesn't excuse incidents like this.

It's very difficult for me to believe that anyone with the smarts to do the job would not have the smarts to realize that after this happenes to a package it probably has some interior damage and it should be checked. It would not surprise me if Frank is paying for some FedEx employee's anger at his boss, his ex-wife, etc . . .

BBD

Birddog
08-24-2007, 12:05 PM
t would not surprise me if Frank is paying for some FedEx employee's anger at his boss, his ex-wife, etc . . .


Nahhhh, it fell off a pile and a fork lift ran over it. Why would they bother to take the time to check a pkg; they know the recipient will let them know if there's a problem. The show must go on.

As for working conditions of delivery guys; it's no worse than a life in construction, maybe even better, and almost positively better benefits. Do you know where you find sympathy? It's in the dictionary, between $hit and syphilis.
I'd have been an engineer if I just could've done the math.

Birddog

BumbleBeeDave
08-24-2007, 12:07 PM
Nahhhh, it fell off a pile and a fork lift ran over it. Why would they bother to take the time to check a pkg; they know the recipient will let them know if there's a problem. The show must go on.

As for working conditions of delivery guys; it's no worse than a life in construction, maybe even better, and almost positively better benefits. Do you know where you find sympathy? It's in the dictionary, between $hit and syphilis.
I'd have been an engineer if I just could've done the math.

Birddog

. . . they would take a moment of extra time to prevent a customer being unhappy. :rolleyes:

Customer service is dead. Maybe we should have a funeral . . .

BBD

MarcusPless
08-24-2007, 12:11 PM
I received a frame/fork via UPS that was reasonably packed, but the box was obviously crushed, similar to the OP's box. The UPS driver simply left it at my door. :no:

I called them up and the driver came back the next day to pick up the box/frame/fork. I thought they would simply look at locally (there are large UPS facilities here in San Diego), realize that it was obviously their mistake, and cut me a check. Wrong. They shipped it back to the original shipping point for inspection and told me that the shipper (seller) had to file the claim. Any money I might receive would have to come from the guy that sold me the frame/fork; UPS wasn't interested in dealing with me.

Thankfully the seller was a reasonable guy and immediately refunded my money, and thankfully for him he had it packed and shipped through a UPS store. I have no idea how this turned out for the seller/shipper, but I suspect he (eventually) made out OK.

I doubt that it makes much of a difference whether it's a complete bike or just a frame/fork when they drive a fork lift over the box. :D

--Marcus

Ozz
08-24-2007, 12:11 PM
it can be very physical and those guys do work their butts off and do get hurt and have to work through nasty pain for not much money. and they get their balz busted constantly over nonsense.....
true....

I was "on call", meaning I had to hang by the phone until 9:00 PM to find out if I was working that night....it was 1986, so no cell phones yet. My shift was 11:00PM until 8:00AM. Lunch at 3:00AM in the industrial area of Seattle is interesting...strange crowd at the AM/PM Mini Mart Nice reverse commute, I was going home as everyone else in the world was going to work.

Comment about the supervisor with clipboard and stopwatch is dead on.

I tweaked my back and the union was after me to join so I called it quits after about 8 weeks. I figured it was time to find a job more in line with my college degree....went to work full time at a bank, and was making less than working part-time on the loading dock... I think I was getting about $18/hour or so...

FWIW, about half the guys I was working with had college degrees and ended up there cuz the money was better than they could make with their degrees.

Still sorry about bike and not trying to make any excuses for the handlers...just pointing out it is a tough job.

BURCH
08-24-2007, 12:16 PM
It's very difficult for me to believe that anyone with the smarts to do the job would not have the smarts to realize that after this happenes to a package it probably has some interior damage and it should be checked.
BBD

This is what I am thinking. How does someone run over a box and not think to do something about it.

How is it that there is rarely time to double check your work, but always time to fix it after the error is realized?

gt6267a
08-24-2007, 12:16 PM
Like any situation in life, I say look at this as an opportunity.

BumbleBeeDave
08-24-2007, 12:20 PM
. . . but this just seems so symptomatic of things in so many service--and other--industries these days. The employees are not stupid. They could do something about it if they wanted to. But they just don't give a sh*t. And this is entirely apart from sympathy for their working conditions. I agree it's not a picnic working there. But so many people these days just seem to be immune to doing ANYTHING extra to make things come out right . . .

Old Codger BBD

Ken Robb
08-24-2007, 12:25 PM
I guess I don't see how a complete bike is more vulnerable to shipping damage than a frame or frame/fork.

I have bought and sold (many more of the former) and shipped bikes and wheels by UPS and never had a problem. Maybe I should quit while I'm ahead? Nah. :beer:

dave thompson
08-24-2007, 12:34 PM
I guess I don't see how a complete bike is more vulnerable to shipping damage than a frame or frame/fork.

I have bought and sold (many more of the former) and shipped bikes and wheels by UPS and never had a problem. Maybe I should quit while I'm ahead? Nah. :beer:
If the complete bike is properly packed, generally no problems. What folks that ship complete bikes often don't realize, or think about, is how many different ways their bike box is going to be handled, dropped or tossed. More often than not, packed wheels start wandering around inside the box causing a great deal of damage, often unrepairable. The shipping company will (rightly) deny the claim stating the bike was improperly packaged.

Ozz
08-24-2007, 01:00 PM
. . . but this just seems so symptomatic of things in so many service--and other--industries these days. The employees are not stupid. They could do something about it if they wanted to. But they just don't give a sh*t. And this is entirely apart from sympathy for their working conditions. I agree it's not a picnic working there. But so many people these days just seem to be immune to doing ANYTHING extra to make things come out right . . .

Old Codger BBD
The handlers are paid to move items as fast as possible
They are graded on how fast they move
If an item is damaged and they take the time to inspect, report to a supervisor, whatever...productivity is lost.
If their productivity drops...they don't have a job...which is what they "give a sh*t" about.

Not saying it's right....just saying how it works. They shipping companies have figured out what paying claims cost, and it is the cost of doing business. One claim out of every 100,000 items shipped is good enough. Tough break if it is your one of kind, sentimental, can't be replaced item. :crap:

J.Greene
08-24-2007, 01:49 PM
I just recently shipped 2 bikes back and fourth between Orlando and the Seattle area. I used Trek Madone boxes sourced from the local trek dealer. The boxes had internal straps and foam pads to keep the wheel separate from the bike. The parts of the box that needed to be was double thickness. These are the best boxes I have seen. They were also bigger and more expensive to ship. But it was worth it. I don't think they would have withstood a forklift. I'd reccomend these to anyone looking to ship a bike.

JG

MassBiker
08-24-2007, 02:05 PM
I am with you 100% BBD, the service industry today is pathetic at best.

Fixed
08-24-2007, 02:12 PM
bro i can loan you a bike if you need p.m. me
cheers

Tom
08-24-2007, 02:17 PM
Millions of packages get where they are going with nothing going awry. Did we forget that?

By no means do I wish to demean the very real affront done to the original poster but extending this to the decline and fall of western civilization is a bit of a reach, no?

BumbleBeeDave
08-24-2007, 02:21 PM
Not saying it's right....just saying how it works. They shipping companies have figured out what paying claims cost, and it is the cost of doing business. One claim out of every 100,000 items shipped is good enough. Tough break if it is your one of kind, sentimental, can't be replaced item. :crap:

Yeah, I know. And to be fair to them, I have no idea of what actual percentage of the parcels they ship end up damaged. It's probably small. But I've just heard so many horror stories here on the forum--but with no context as far as percentage of total bikes shipped. But you gotta admit Frank's case is a pretty egregious example--that has REALLY been crunched! :crap: :(

And again, to be fair to FedEx, sometimes the original shippers are none too careful. I just had to return a pair of Mavic ES wheels to Performance--when they arrived there was NO padding in the box--no inernal boxing or bracing, bubble wrap, no peanuts, no nuthin'! Judging by the labels on the box, they had apparently just taken them in the box they came from France in and shipped them right back out. The only padded thing in the box was the wheel bags--and the wheels were not in them. Of course the box was crunched and there was a big divot out of one of the rims. Of course I sent them back and ordered a pair today from someone else. How could they send 'em out with NO padding? God knows . . .

But I stick by my point that caring for the customer in general is a dying art.

BBD

Bobbo
08-24-2007, 02:35 PM
This is what I am thinking. How does someone run over a box and not think to do something about it.

How is it that there is rarely time to double check your work, but always time to fix it after the error is realized?

You guys are living in Wonderland. What OZZ said. Do you have any idea of the incredible volume these companies are moving? So a dude running a forklift forgets to hit the brakes - whoops! There goes one package - oh well, ship it out and let the claims people deal with it. There's no time to stop the entire train. if they did, your 3 day shipment would take 2 weeks. It's not perfect and it's not fair. It's just the way it is.

Ozz
08-24-2007, 02:36 PM
...But I stick by my point that caring for the customer in general is a dying art....
with that...I can't argue....It is a rare find...(insert plug for our host here ;) ).

The "caring" should probably come from the claims group...although I am almost certain their first mandate is fraud prevention.

sc53
08-24-2007, 02:38 PM
Damaged packages always end up with the recipient for claims filing. The carrier doesn't intercept damaged packages and proactively start a claim itself! That's up to the shipper and recipient. If the shipper didn't purchase insurance then there is only recovery up to the $100 that UPS and I think FedEx too automatically include in their shipping cost. Then if the carrier finds your claim worthy--ie, you have your sales receipts, shipping invoice, proof of insurance, etc--AND that the shipper properly packaged your item, you may get your claim accepted. Like the previous poster said, it's the shipper who receives the insurance proceeds, and you must communicate with him to get your money back. If he didn't insure the package for the full amount you paid him--he won't get that amount back from the carrier, and may not feel obligated to refund you all your money!
I am speaking from a decade's worth of experience buying and selling high end, expensive and sometimes quite heavy and/or fragile stereo gear on Audiogon. Many claims, many runarounds, a few payouts. Mostly I've been made whole by sellers but not on eBay. The eBay seller only insured the package for half what I paid--though I expressly told him I wanted to pay for FULL insurance--and then when FedEx eventually paid him the claim, he took weeks to refund me only half what I had paid him. He didn't even refund me my shipping costs, which he had billed me!
Nothing to be done but leave bad feedback for him. Very weak response.
Hope you have much better luck and your seller comes through quickly and satisfactorily!

bhungerford
08-24-2007, 02:51 PM
just got my CDA, FedEx, damaged. although i don't think it was fedex's fault cauase the box looked fine. rear derailleur and dropout is bent up/broken. i've been waiting since Memorial day, this sucks.

BURCH
08-24-2007, 02:59 PM
You guys are living in Wonderland. What OZZ said. Do you have any idea of the incredible volume these companies are moving? So a dude running a forklift forgets to hit the brakes - whoops! There goes one package - oh well, ship it out and let the claims people deal with it. There's no time to stop the entire train. if they did, your 3 day shipment would take 2 weeks. It's not perfect and it's not fair. It's just the way it is.


I don't think it is a wonderland. A box gets run over and you are telling that FedEx does not have a standard procedure to handle this? Some procedure that says to quickly place this box where a non shipping person can handle the issue/damage?

I would gladly accept that the person who damaged the box looked around and when no one noticed, walked away from it so they don't have to take responsibility. But I can't accept a theory that says FedEx has no precedure for dealing with a clearly damaged box. Someone not reporting it I can accept, but I would think that FedEx as a company expects to provide better service than that. You don't get to be as great a powerhouse as FedEx by accepting "It's not perfect and it's not fair. It's just the way it is." Poorly run and unsuccessful companies follow those guidelines.

norman neville
08-24-2007, 03:35 PM
I don't think it is a wonderland. A box gets run over and you are telling that FedEx does not have a standard procedure to handle this? Some procedure that says to quickly place this box where a non shipping person can handle the issue/damage?

I would gladly accept that the person who damaged the box looked around and when no one noticed, walked away from it so they don't have to take responsibility. But I can't accept a theory that says FedEx has no precedure for dealing with a clearly damaged box. Someone not reporting it I can accept, but I would think that FedEx as a company expects to provide better service than that. You don't get to be as great a powerhouse as FedEx by accepting "It's not perfect and it's not fair. It's just the way it is." Poorly run and unsuccessful companies follow those guidelines.

if a box gets crunched, for all anybody knows what is inside is fine. deliver it and see what happens. they don't stop the process for anything.

and most of the time, the drivers don't load their trucks so they have no idea what's there or what it looks like until they make the stop. if it's a drop with nobody home, they leave the crappy-looking box as quickly as they can and assume everything inside is fine. that's the process. if the drivers start wasting time wondering if the thing inside the box might be damaged, they will find themselves with a supervisor up their rears.

Fivethumbs
08-24-2007, 03:46 PM
I love all the "devil's advocate" type of responses that have been posted. The bottom line is that someone ran over a package and then went about their business as if nothing happened. That's lame.

sc53
08-24-2007, 03:57 PM
Yeah it's lame but that's the nature of the service these carriers offer. There is NO procedure for taking a package out of the mailstream because it looks damaged. It's delivered and then becomes part of the claims process. If you happen to be home when the broken package is delivered, you can refuse delivery, and the carrier will take it back to his HQ for what they call "inspection," but you still need to file a claim etc. or you run the risk of never seeing the package again. If FedEx or UPS started diverting packages that looked messed up they would be subject to thousands of lawsuits for conversion/theft. Sometimes the package is a total mess but the contents somehow survived, so no problem. Many people won't ship with FedEx or UPS but there is no other carrier who is errorless and damage-free. That's why you buy (and overbuy) insurance and keep good records of your sale/purchase and shipment. Then keep your fingers crossed.

norman neville
08-24-2007, 04:09 PM
I love all the "devil's advocate" type of responses that have been posted. The bottom line is that someone ran over a package and then went about their business as if nothing happened. That's lame.

but it's what they do. it's their business. their procedure. their system. they have a claims department. package handlers and drivers are not part of that department.

these annoying damages are the main reason why they stopped getting signatures on residential deliveries. the easiest way to handle an ugly package is to refuse it, take a snap and stop payment, but if you're not home and they leave it on your porch, it's been delivered and you're out of luck. dump and run. a decent liz phair song or something.

if they had their wish, both ups and fedex would abandon residential deliveries all together and strictly do b2b shipping, but that's impossible and unsustainable, so they will simply make the entire experience as sucky and difficult as possible for everyone.

i think the frame at the top of this thread came from cd'o and cr dale, so he should know his way around damage claims.

BumbleBeeDave
08-24-2007, 04:12 PM
Many people won't ship with FedEx or UPS but there is no other carrier who is errorless and damage-free.

And that's the larger problem in a nutshell. Like many other industries these days such as auto insurance and airlines, they know you really have no other choice. As long as neither of them is worse than the other or the USPS, and if you want to ship large packages at reasonable cost, you have no other choice. With airlines if you want to get across the country in less than a week, you have no other choice. With auto insurance you're required by law to buy it--you have no other choice.

They don't care if they do a good job or if you're happy or not because because they don't have to. You have no other choice and they know it. When the service or merchandise gets to a certain level of specialization, the rules of the market no longer apply because you as a customer no longer have a choice.

BBD

MartyE
08-24-2007, 04:12 PM
Frank,

that is horrible, and I know how much you wanted that Pinarello. . .
but I do have to agree with other posters that complete bike or frame would
not have mattered. What did Dale have to say about it?

Marty

Erik.Lazdins
08-24-2007, 07:20 PM
Hey Frank,
I'm sorry this happened to you especially on a bicycle. What a bummer.

Louis
08-24-2007, 07:27 PM
if a box gets crunched, for all anybody knows what is inside is fine. deliver it and see what happens. they don't stop the process for anything.

Detroit tried this method of manufacturing for years until the Japanese showed the world that there are much better ways of doing things. Today GM, Ford and Chrysler, are not perfect, but much better. Competition forced them to improve. Unfortunately, there isn't a whole lot of competition in the shipping business.

If Fed Ex and UPS were half as sensitive to customer satisfaction as the auto manufacturers, I doubt very much that Frank's story would have happened as it did.

Louis

norman neville
08-24-2007, 09:09 PM
Detroit tried this method of manufacturing for years until the Japanese showed the world that there are much better ways of doing things. Today GM, Ford and Chrysler, are not perfect, but much better. Competition forced them to improve. Unfortunately, there isn't a whole lot of competition in the shipping business.

If Fed Ex and UPS were half as sensitive to customer satisfaction as the auto manufacturers, I doubt very much that Frank's story would have happened as it did.

Louis

manufacturing crap, ie detroit, and shipping/delivering crap, ie the crunched frame.

it is competition which has in fact created this metric of handling/delivery rates in relation to customer satifaction. numbers demand that damages become the responsibility of the customers.

any new shipping company who wished to compete with ups/fedex would have the same goals and the same attitude toward the inevitable oops. they would consider sop and move on.

manet
08-24-2007, 09:46 PM
.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e61/easterncaster/000_0634-731263.jpg

Your_Friend!
08-24-2007, 09:49 PM
Manet!

Do You Hide

In That Box!

When You Paint

Pretty Pictures?!


Love,
Your_Friend!

spincoast
08-25-2007, 06:00 AM
Sorry Frank.

I know how much you were looking forward to that bike.

barry1021
08-25-2007, 06:08 AM
just got my CDA, FedEx, damaged. although i don't think it was fedex's fault cauase the box looked fine. rear derailleur and dropout is bent up/broken. i've been waiting since Memorial day, this sucks.

what do you think happened?? Nobody ships a damaged bike I would think. boy that does suck

b21

barry1021
08-25-2007, 06:13 AM
You were really excited about that bike.You can always buy on EBAY. Here is a picture of the boxed Campy wheels I won earlier in the year-That's the skewer sticking out. No way the hole was made by the skewer, And yes there is one on the other side. And the seller went to mediation to complain that I gave him neutral feedback. Yikes!

b21

Frank
05-11-2008, 05:25 PM
Some of you may remember back last August when I bought this complete like-new Pinarello from a very reputable, experienced, and great to work with bike shop. The bike was shipped in two boxes (wheels in one box, rest of bike in another) and the frame was destroyed:

Another Serotta thread got me to thinking about how that turned out for the seller (he refunded my money immediately. I sent many pics and statements and followed up for several months with him.) so I sent him an e-mail today.

The result? He still has the punctured box with the destroyed frame in it at his shop. FedEx denied the claim several times for several reasons, the latest being they had to have the original bill of sale for it which he didn't have as it was a trade from a customer who bought a new bike from him. They continue to deny the claim, he still has the damaged bike.

Unbelievable!

Chris
05-11-2008, 06:36 PM
That really sucks for both of you. Sorry to hear about that!

Sasha18
05-11-2008, 08:27 PM
Maybe we should start a letter writing campaign. Got the claim number? I'll write them. That's ridiculous. For any bike, but a Pinarello? Just sad.

Dekonick
05-11-2008, 08:53 PM
That is just wrong. I bought a Bianchi a few years back - it came with a nice dent in the down tube - with a hole in the side of the box. UPS paid the claim without too much of a fight - it was obviously their fault. Fed Ex of late has been getting a bad rep for not paying out... if they screw it up, they should bear the responsibility - after all why else pay for the ^%$ insurance?