Opinion; Does Serotta belong at NAHBS?

[NAHBS]

Folks,

I have to say that the Serotta company has been one tough nut to crack.
Dont get me wrong here, I am not bit#hing at them or ranting or grinding any axe.

The fact is, I DO want them to exhibit at NAHBS. The problem is that I have hit a brick wall each and every time. I wont even go into the fact of what happened last year, but I want opinions from list members if they feel that Serotta "belongs" at NAHBS, not from a "are they worthy" standpoint, because we all know they fit into our criteria, but from a "are they missing the boat" standpoint.

Discuss?

DW

[14max]

*

[1centaur]

My impression of the presenters at that show is that they have some combination of needing the marketing exposure and wanting to associate with very similar builders, either for social reasons or competitively. The people coming to the show are afficionados of the rare and the high quality, priding themselves on their taste and discrimination.

Serotta has its own marketing methodology (and a very effective one it is) and its production numbers are well outside of the band I perceive at the show. Its social and competitive needs there would seem to be slight, and if peers are voting on best bike and all that then Serotta would probably lose because it's not "one of us." The attendees would look at the bikes respectfully but would be inclined to affirm their special taste by preferring low volume producers.

Therefore Serotta would be mostly wasting marketing dollars by going, only improving the odds of getting a sale from the marginal show attendee. More effort with the dealers would always give more bang for the buck for Serotta's marketing dollars.

One man's opinion.

[rnhood]

Being that they have the capability of building a custom bike, I would say they do belong. Actually, I suspect they have more "hand made custom" capability than we see at first sight since their business model makes necessary compromises in order to address both the custom and, the production marketplace required for growth.

Serotta has some ideals and material science that probably sets them apart from both the production outfits like Specialized and Giant and, the small one or two man craftsman shops. I believe they should make an appearance at your show and, focus on on strength and core values instead of trying to compete in the artistic venue.

[93legendti]

Folks,

I have to say that the Serotta company has been one tough nut to crack.
Dont get me wrong here, I am not bit#hing at them or ranting or grinding any axe.

The fact is, I DO want them to exhibit at NAHBS. The problem is that I have hit a brick wall each and every time. I wont even go into the fact of what happened last year, but I want opinions from list members if they feel that Serotta "belongs" at NAHBS, not from a "are they worthy" standpoint, because we all know they fit into our criteria, but from a "are they missing the boat" standpoint.

Discuss?

DW

I'm not sure what you hope to gain by this thread, but maybe you should take "no" for an answer?

[NAHBS]

I've wondered about Serotta's involvement (or lack thereof) since I heard/read about the show. I am curious what the criteria is for a builder to be able to exhibit. Is there a ceiling/limit to the number of frames a person or people put out a year? Does the company have to have a limited number of builders in general? I think what I'm trying to figure out is if the NAHBS is more exclusive due to lower number of framesets generated by smaller builders or if the doors are open to bigger companies like Serotta that seem to generate a lot of off the peg models along with custom jobs...

The criteria at this point is;
1. All in house production, i.e. no overseas subcontracting
2. Custom offerings; paint, geometry, etc.
3. Operates ethically and carries Liability Insurance.

many more, but those are the main issues.

DW

[NAHBS]

I'm not sure what you hope to gain by this thread, but maybe you should take "no" for an answer?

Ummm, its not that I am taking a "no" for an answer...

I want to find out if the attendees think they are missing something here...

DW

[e-RICHIE]

insert mouth open foot (http://www.frameforum.net/forum2/index.php?s=&showtopic=4844&view=findpost&p=32973) atmo -

[Pete Serotta]

I think it comes down to what the value that you and the value that SEOTTA sees in being at the show.

Every firm that is in business for the long haul needs to look at their expenses and the return (either real or as a result the action) as it affects the botton line of profit.

I could get into my opinion but it would be just that.

Let me suggest that you talk to LESLIE (Leslie@SEROTTA.COM) who is Direction of Marketing and Communications.

Her vote and opinion, as well as Ben's, are the ones that count.

THanks PETE

[CNY rider]

I think there are two separate issues here.


First from the consumer standpoint: I live on the East Coast and very much look forward to attending when the show finally comes east. As an attendee I would love to see Serotta there. I'm a fan of the bikes, and don't live near an LBS where I can see the new models each year. So for me, the answer is that they should be there.

For Serotta though, I'm not sure how much sense it makes. Most folks do have access to Serottas locally, and those attending the show are more likely to want to interact and probably transact business with the one man shops that they otherwise will never get the chance to see or meet.

[NAHBS]

I think there are two separate issues here.


First from the consumer standpoint: I live on the East Coast and very much look forward to attending when the show finally comes east. As an attendee I would love to see Serotta there. I'm a fan of the bikes, and don't live near an LBS where I can see the new models each year. So for me, the answer is that they should be there.



See, this is the kind of input I wanted to see.

[ecl2k]

I don't think the attendees of the show will be missing anything. People will go to this show to see something they can't see at a high end bike dealer

Ideally (but not realistically) one additional criterion should be that the person whose name is on the down tube should be directly involved in the framebuilding. I think serotta seems to be a large united-states bike factory that can take custom orders similar to litespeed, moots, seven, independent fabrications or any other companies that can build to order.

For what it's worth, I want to see some art at this show, and serottas are more along the mass production end of the spectrum. I don't think serotta could compete for best in show nor would they bother building a bike that could, I don't think they care.

[J.Greene]

I can see reasons for both sides.

I see the value in being at the show and letting my audience know that I was the only company in attendence that could deliver a custom geo Ti frame in 6 weeks, or whatever the short wait is.

JG

[Ginger]

I can walk down to my local shop and see a Serotta. Just like I can see a Cannondale or a Trek. I can pick up a catalog and read about the bikes. I'm not going to go to travel all the way to NAHBS to see something I can see at my local shop or at Interbike.

Part of it is scale, if you're going to go after Serotta, I suspect you're also inviting Seven, Moots, IF, and hey...why not Cannondale.
You start smudging lines of who's invited to include larger makers and you cease to differentiate why I should go to this event. Turn it into NABS instead of NAHBS.

[Ginger]

I can see reasons for both sides.

I see the value in being at the show and letting my audience know that I was the only company in attendence that could deliver a custom geo Ti frame in 6 weeks, or whatever the short wait is.

JG
Not every small builder has a 5 year wait list. I bet there are small ti builders out there who could do it in shorter time.

[Your_Friend!]

insert mouth open foot (http://www.frameforum.net/forum2/index.php?s=&showtopic=4844&view=findpost&p=32973) atmo -


Friends!

It Is As If There Were

A Parallel Universe!


Love,
Your_Friend!

[Fixed]

bro tryed to get into that universe a couple of times they must have heard of me ....locked doors
cheers

[J.Greene]

Not every small builder has a 5 year wait list. I bet there are small ti builders out there who could do it in shorter time.

who?

I'm interested

JG

[thejen12]

I have a friend who went to the show this year because she wants to buy a custom bike and she is evaluating what builder she wants to use. She got to see a lot of them at the same time and compare notes, etc. Serotta wasn't there, and from that perspective, it was their loss. I'm sure she would have loved to have seen them there and talked to them to help her with her decision.

I think most people going to the show like to see the offerings from many different vendors under one roof, and from that perspective, Serotta would definitely be a vendor worth seeing.

Jenn

[Bill Bove]

bro tryed to get into that universe a couple of times they must have heard of me ....locked doors
cheers

...only so many chairs at that table bro.

original thread, yes.

why aren't they at interbike?

[big shanty]

Since it is a "consumer show", I would think a consumer would only benefit from Serotta's presence if the person who will potentially be building a bike for the consumer is in attendance. IF not, forget it. If so, and they are unable to communicate wants/needs for a bicycle....still a waste of resources for Serotta, and a waste of time for everybody.

[Marcusaurelius]

who?

I'm interested

JG


I know Dekerf Cycles doesn't have a long wait list.

[Ahneida Ride]

Yea.

Serotta is not at Interbike, They used to be ......

I would LOVE to attend an east coast version of the hand bike show.
I would LOVE to see Serotta represented. We all know that Serotta makes
a truly exemplary product and is a world leader in real innovation.
and they build dang nice bikes to boot !!!!!!

Their machine shop resembles an Alien space ship. They can do just about
anything. and they are always floating around new ideas. Serotta is creative, Ben was smart enough to hire Mr. Dave Kirk!

Serotta does not do a very good job of tooting their horn. Much advertising
is ground level word of mouth. I guess that is my job.

My guess is that Ben and Company looked at the bottom line and said that
the risk is not worth the reward. That is, their budget is rather limited.
At the end of each month, Ben has to pay, Electrical, water, gas, Mortgage,
salaries, health care, steel suppliers, Ti suppliers, Mortgage on Carbon plant
in Cal. etc. The bill must be staggering.

My guess is that if more funds were available, they would attend.

Consider this .... They have a DEMO van that tours the country.
What is the cost to purchase this van/trailer, stock it with bikes,
haul it around the US, pay for food, and hotel for 2 members of the Serotta
staff, pay for Insurance on the van and trailer, pay for maintenance on the
van, pay for all the graphics on the van .... Well you get the picture ....
Did I mention gas for the van/trailer at 3 frn a gallon?
Efficiency for Van/Trailer is measured in gallons/mile.

I bectha the DEMO VAN eats up almost the entire advertising budget!!

Some day I just gotta catch the Hand built bike show !!!!!
( Oh yea. If you don't think Serotta's are hand built, take a tour of the
factory )

Hope I did present myself as a wise guy. Not my intention. ;)

[Steve Hampsten]

...only so many chairs at that table bro.


The food there is so bad...and such small portions.

Why should Serotta go to Interbike OR Nahmbs? Vegas sucks and is expensive and Nahmbs is focused on small builders. People go to Nahmbs to see Richard, Sacha, and Dario and to drool over shiny polished lugwork; they go to Vegas to smoke and gamble (not that here's anything wrong with that) and look at Chinese bikes. Where does this make sense for Serotta?

Doesn't it make sense for Serotta to concentrate on their dealers - remember those? Isn't that how Serotta/Moots/Seven/IF?Cannondale all sell their bikes? I see Moots doing Ride the Rockies and Bicycle Tour of Colorado; these rides put them in contact with both customers AND dealers - it's win/win for everyone. I imagine Serotta does something similar - I know they do. If Moots can sell more bikes by not leaving their home state, why travel to a consumer show?

For a builder like Bilenky or Pereira or Mint, Nahmbs is probably a good use of resources in terms of putting their product in front of an educated consumer, and it's a good chance to mix with other builders. However, the same consumer can simply walk down the street in Portland to see Serottas in the local bike shop.

Why pay for the same meal twice?

[Ahneida Ride]

Since it is a "consumer show", I would think a consumer would only benefit from Serotta's presence if the person who will potentially be building a bike for the consumer is in attendance. IF not, forget it. If so, and they are unable to communicate wants/needs for a bicycle....still a waste of resources for Serotta, and a waste of time for everybody.


That Guru is Mr. Kelly Bedford. Serotta's designer. All designs go thru Kelly.
I think Kelly used to attend Interbike .....

But if Kelly attends, that is time that bikes are NOT being designed. :( :eek: :o :no:

[Ahneida Ride]

Doesn't it make sense for Serotta to concentrate on their dealers - remember those?

Great Point Steve.

I guess that is why Serotta has the Demo Van/Trailer.

Demo rides are soooo convincing. I live close to the factory.
Lori was kind enough (back in the old days) to give me a Legend.
I was sold America immediately.

Lori also gave me an severe excoriation for not wearing a helmet.
She was right. A Helmet saved me a while back. Thank God I was on
a beater bike and not my Legend when I guy ran into to me at the
NYC 5 Boro's tour.

[Ginger]

I know Dekerf Cycles doesn't have a long wait list.

Have you checked Scott Quiring? Carl Strong?

[Grant McLean]

Doesn't it make sense for Serotta to concentrate on their dealers - remember those? Isn't that how Serotta/Moots/Seven/IF?Cannondale all sell their bikes?

Yes it does.

The framebuilders that deal with clients directly should attend the NAHBS.

If the brand is sold at retail through a dealer network, I don't really see the show
having the same impact for them, as their clients can go to a local shop.

-g

[93legendti]

It's not you. It is Serotta:

http://www.amazon.com/Hes-Just-That-Into-Understanding/dp/068987474X

[Big Dan]

no

[NAHBS]

Yes it does.

The framebuilders that deal with clients directly should attend the NAHBS.

If the brand is sold at retail through a dealer network, I don't really see the show
having the same impact for them, as their clients can go to a local shop.

-g


Well, maybe I shouldnt "let the cat out of the bag", but I.F. has decided to NOT hit vegas this year. Instead they have invited their dealers to NAHBS to show product. That being said, I do feel it is worth it as many of the dealers will be in attendence.

Just sayin.

DW

[Len J]

The food there is so bad...and such small portions.

Why should Serotta go to Interbike OR Nahmbs? Vegas sucks and is expensive and Nahmbs is focused on small builders. People go to Nahmbs to see Richard, Sacha, and Dario and to drool over shiny polished lugwork; they go to Vegas to smoke and gamble (not that here's anything wrong with that) and look at Chinese bikes. Where does this make sense for Serotta?

Doesn't it make sense for Serotta to concentrate on their dealers - remember those? Isn't that how Serotta/Moots/Seven/IF?Cannondale all sell their bikes? I see Moots doing Ride the Rockies and Bicycle Tour of Colorado; these rides put them in contact with both customers AND dealers - it's win/win for everyone. I imagine Serotta does something similar - I know they do. If Moots can sell more bikes by not leaving their home state, why travel to a consumer show?

For a builder like Bilenky or Pereira or Mint, Nahmbs is probably a good use of resources in terms of putting their product in front of an educated consumer, and it's a good chance to mix with other builders. However, the same consumer can simply walk down the street in Portland to see Serottas in the local bike shop.

Why pay for the same meal twice?

If I were an advisor for Serotta, I would ask the question, what is in it for them?

I don't see anything at your show that would help them:

-Name recognition....I don't think so.
-Orders.........again, I don't think so. Their business model is one that works through loyal dealers. Everything they do is about the dealers. I think if you could access the serotta dealers network & ask this same question, the answer would be no.


Me, I trust Ben & Co to make the right decisions for their co.

Len

[MRB]

who?

I'm interested

JG
Carl Strong for starters, and there aren't many that are better. Equal perhaps but not better. imho.

JA

[Ginger]

Well, maybe I shouldnt "let the cat out of the bag", but I.F. has decided to NOT hit vegas this year. Instead they have invited their dealers to NAHBS to show product. That being said, I do feel it is worth it as many of the dealers will be in attendence.

Just sayin.

DW

Well...are you selling the show to Serotta on the basis that there will be IF bike shops interested in their bikes at the show?

I don't think that would matter to Serotta as they seem pretty picky about who has their bikes. I know shops who carry another small builder who would love to carry Serotta but can't due to Serotta's criteria.... And I think Serotta has a bit more class than to poach bike shops who are at the show to see IF.

So...not being on the business side of Serotta, I don't think they'd be interested in a kmart cattle call for shops, they have a vetting system already.

So that leaves exposure to consumers. And they have the demo system with their dealers for that...

So, it would be nice for them to go, 'cause they are great bikes and great people...but...why would they?

[Sandy]

I'm not sure what you hope to gain by this thread, but maybe you should take "no" for an answer?

93legendti makes a lot of sense here. Comments given by posters on this thread have been excellent, per the norm. Hoever, what we say and think mean very little, I believe. Serotta's decision and they have opted not to go. In actuality, I would think that this thread probably would be a negative to Serotta relative to Serotta changing its mind. I am sure that those at Serotta have thought it through and made their decision.

Bottom line- I don't think what we say herein means too much. Serotta has spoken.


Soft Spoken Sandy

[Ginger]

93legendti makes a lot of sense here. Comments given by posters on this thread have been excellent, per the norm. Hoever, what we say and think mean very little, I believe. Serotta's decision and they have opted not to go. In actuality, I would think that this thread probably would be a negative to Serotta relative to Serotta changing its mind. I am sure that those at Serotta have thought it through and made their decision.

Bottom line- I don't think what we say herein means too much. Serotta has spoken.


Soft Spoken Sandy
Well...we don't know that they have.
Is the real question: Does Serotta belong at the show and should concessions be made to make it more palatable to them so they show up?

[e-RICHIE]

...should concessions be made to make it more palatable to them so they show up?
huh atmo?

[MarleyMon]

My motto (right after "Eat Drink and Be Marley")

is "The More, the Marley-er"

[NAHBS]

If I were an advisor for Serotta, I would ask the question, what is in it for them?

I don't see anything at your show that would help them:

-Name recognition....I don't think so.
-Orders.........again, I don't think so. Their business model is one that works through loyal dealers. Everything they do is about the dealers. I think if you could access the serotta dealers network & ask this same question, the answer would be no.

On a side note, this thread feels ingenuous to me.......it appears that you are trying to put backpressure on Serotta through the forum.

Me, I trust Ben & Co to make the right decisions for their co.

Len

Len,

See post at ff please.

DW

[Sandy]

Well...we don't know that they have.
Is the real question: Does Serotta belong at the show and should concessions be made to make it more palatable to them so they show up?

I guess that you are correct. Probably decided not to attend last year. The initial post did, however, not indicate any positive indication of attendance for this year.

Sandy

[Johny]

YES, Serotta should go. Actually everyone should go and drink with archibald and jerk at NAHBS.

[bluesea]

I wont even go into the fact of what happened last year, but I want opinions from list members if they feel that Serotta "belongs" at NAHBS, not from a "are they worthy" standpoint, because we all know they fit into our criteria, but from a "are they missing the boat" standpoint.

Discuss?

DW

Isn't this all about you missing the boat in having Serotta's name added to the list of attendees of your show?

[Len J]

Len,

See post at ff please.

DW

Saw & responded....my misunderstanding....I just came back to edit this.

Len

[stevep]

i thk they should be at both shows.
why the handmade show?
cause they make fine crafted top notch full custom bikes and are capable of delivering them in a reasonable time frame. the stuff is nice and it belongs there.
why interbike?
there are many, many new dealers every year who are not familiar with the product. they dont understand the breadth of the line. ti, steel, carbon, etc. they dont know that these custom bikes can be delivered relatively quickly and their competition is frequently at these shows displaying cool product to get the dealers excited...and to steal serotta dealers away.
why not go?
it costs a lot

[e-RICHIE]

i thk they should be at both shows.
why the handmade show?
cause they make fine crafted top notch full custom bikes and are capable of delivering them in a reasonable time frame. the stuff is nice and it belongs there.
why interbike?
there are many, many new dealers every year who are not familiar with the product. they dont understand the breadth of the line. ti, steel, carbon, etc. they dont know that these custom bikes can be delivered relatively quickly and their competition is frequently at these shows displaying cool product to get the dealers excited...and to steal serotta dealers away.
why not go?
it costs a lot
the iceman speaketh atmo.

[Ginger]

the iceman speaketh atmo.
Hmmm...I met the Iceman, his name is Steve...but not that Steve.

www.iceman.com

(fun race in a miserable end-of-season LaBrea sand pit sort of way...unless there's snow...and yes...I've actually raced it! But don't look for my name in results...it was years ago...and yes...I did horribly.)

[shinomaster]

I'm trying to figure out if a Serotta HSG cross frame is better than a Lemond Poprad.

[Ahneida Ride]

i thk they should be at both shows.
why the handmade show?
cause they make fine crafted top notch full custom bikes and are capable of delivering them in a reasonable time frame. the stuff is nice and it belongs there.
why interbike?
there are many, many new dealers every year who are not familiar with the product. they dont understand the breadth of the line. ti, steel, carbon, etc. they dont know that these custom bikes can be delivered relatively quickly and their competition is frequently at these shows displaying cool product to get the dealers excited...and to steal serotta dealers away.
why not go?
it costs a lot

I expressed one opinion, this is the flip ......
Which is more valid ??? :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

In the the end, it's a frn decision.

[david]

i'll leave the business case to ben.

from a consumer standpoint, i'd love to see serotta there. (and moots, if, etc.)

serotta will always be in my consideration set. and i can always check out a serotta or two at my local shop. that's where i bought the two serottas i currently own.

but if nahbs comes to the east coast, i'll be there. and my intention will be to fall in love and put down a deposit or two.

it will be so much fun, and so seductive, to see all these great frames in one place, there for the taking.

and if serotta's not there? well, if they ain't at the bar, i ain't likely to go home with them.

[aLexis]

I don't think the attendees of the show will be missing anything. People will go to this show to see something they can't see at a high end bike dealer

Ideally (but not realistically) one additional criterion should be that the person whose name is on the down tube should be directly involved in the framebuilding. I think serotta seems to be a large united-states bike factory that can take custom orders similar to litespeed, moots, seven, independent fabrications or any other companies that can build to order.

For what it's worth, I want to see some art at this show, and serottas are more along the mass production end of the spectrum. I don't think serotta could compete for best in show nor would they bother building a bike that could, I don't think they care.

Did the Serotta demo van run over your puppy? You have some oddly spiteful comments about Serotta in your four posts.

FWIW, Ben (Serotta - from the downtube) is very involved in the making of his frames.

[Ahneida Ride]

I
Ideally (but not realistically) one additional criterion should be that the person whose name is on the down tube should be directly involved in the framebuilding.

When I purchased by Legend, I had a small issue with the Fork.
I stopped by the factory. I was speaking with Lori when Ben happened
to be passing by. He was going to lunch, but instead stopped, spoke with
me, addressed and fixed the issue.

Ben could have just as easily ignored me and walked out the door.
He did not. :banana:

Ben is there all the time. Just bop in, and you will fine him.
To state the Ben is not involved in the day to day activities of the
firm is absurd and just not true. :no:

Do you really expect Ben to be firing a torch? By that logic, Kelly should
be firing a torch also and not designing frames.

I guess it all depends on what your definition of "directly involved in the framebuilding" is. I am sure Ben could back to actual frambuilding.
Serotta's production could also down to 100 frames a year too. :eek:

[Ahneida Ride]

Perhaps I should add, I ride in that area, sometimes I park in the Serotta
lot. Ben is always floating around.

And Kelly DOES fire up a torch once and a while.

[Serotta_James]

Go visit some of the mass-produced US factories, and then come visit us. The difference is striking.

I've been our West Coast Business Manager for the last couple years and I've made the conscious decision not to go to the NAHBS. Quite simply I thought that given the budget, it was best for us to concentrate on supporting dealers by educating them and supporting their events.

The move to Portland is a good one and might change things for us regarding this event.

[e-RICHIE]

The move to Portland is a good one and might change things for us regarding this event.
james join us at dwf's booth after 1pm on
saturday. that is when happy hour starts atmo.

[Serotta_James]

I thought it was always happy hour in Portland...
At least it has been everytime I've been there.

[e-RICHIE]

I thought it was always happy hour in Portland...
At least it has been everytime I've been there.
look you just bring ray manzarek, some sheet music,
and a mister mike, and we'll all do a light your fire
youtube atmo. c'mon - get the band back together.

[Fixed]

bro he was the doors imho cheers

[DarrenCT]

look you just bring ray manzarek, some sheet music,
and a mister mike, and we'll all do a light your fire
youtube atmo. c'mon - get the band back together.

if this nahbs involves drinking lots of beer, i may have to attend

l8r
-d

[SoCalSteve]

james join us at dwf's booth after 1pm on
saturday. that is when happy hour starts atmo.

If James is going, I may have to fly up for the day just to meet all you guys..Sure didnt work out last year AT ALL for me as work and life got in the way of having fun, fun, fun in San Jose!!! Gee, when would I ever have a chance to have dinner with E-Richie and Dave Kirk at the same time???

Just sayin'

Steve

[jerk]

look you just bring ray manzarek, some sheet music,
and a mister mike, and we'll all do a light your fire
youtube atmo. c'mon - get the band back together.


serotta james-

i'm bringing the whole frucking jmewkill posse and you better be there. i know you didn't sign a no-compete clause and i've got some contract work lined up for you as an official stranahan's whiskey taster. you don't show up, you not only insult the mewkiller. you insult the whole posse.

jerk

[deanster]

who?

I'm interested

JG
Sachs as in Richard Sachs Cycles. My wife was glad that I didn't bring a credit card or check book to the show. I would have layed down the green stuff for a cross bike he brought to the show...WOW! I have to say that the show last year had a great collection of bikes. Custom is custom and hand built custom bikes are something to behold...check out the website it is worth the effort. Also, you should check out Columbine bikes, a small builder out side of Ft Bragg, CA...download their brochure it will bring tears to your eyes. And they use state of the art materials including Stainless.
I recently sold my Ti Carbon Frame and went back to steel. I found a very light Mondonico Diamond Extra lugged frame (Columbus Neuron) and with my Record group (2004) and a steel fork (light pinarello Vires) the bike weighs in at 17.9 lbs (pedals, wb cages, and saddle) included. My 2 kids will be graduating from CU Boulder in May of 08 and I will be going to the NAHMB show with cash in my pocket and Sachs or someone else will be on the receiving end.
A good Serotta highend frame would be a welcome addition to the show for highlighting what Serotta does...just for show including the fit methodology.

[jerk]

james-
i don't see those tickets bought yet.....


jerk

[jmewkill]

So.. tell me about the hash bars again?

[stevep]

I heard those lily livered sissies at Anvil aren't going to Interbike either!
:beer:

i heard he spent all his promotional money on his sex change operation.
at least that what e-richie told me...

[djg]

[QUOTE=Archibald]...

I think I get it now, it's like, practically everything is illuminated.

[Serotta_James]

I'm going to be living in your 'hood soon, Jerk.
We can snuggle all the way from Logan to PDX...

[e-RICHIE]

I'm going to be living in your 'hood soon, Jerk.
We can snuggle all the way from Logan to PDX...
he's in boston not provincetown atmo.

[J.Greene]

Sachs as in Richard Sachs Cycles. My wife was glad that I didn't bring a credit card or check book to the show. I would have layed down the green stuff for a cross bike he brought to the show...WOW! I have to say that the show last year had a great collection of bikes. Custom is custom and hand built custom bikes are something to behold...check out the website it is worth the effort.

Deanster,

Can he build me a Ti bike in under 6 weeks? How about with a carbon fork and carbon stays also? Anyway I won't even look at his website now, we broke up last night. It was not me, it was him.

JG

[e-RICHIE]

Deanster,

Can he build me a Ti bike in under 6 weeks? How about with a carbon fork and carbon stays also? Anyway I won't even look at his website now, we broke up last night. It was not me, it was him.

JG
here's a tie you can have by thursday atmo -

http://im.edirectory.co.uk/products/919/r/silkstrippedart.jpg

[bozman]

Carl Strong for starters, and there aren't many that are better. Equal perhaps but not better. imho.

JA

+1

When I checked with Carl in late-May he was at 10 weeks or less for a ti frame, fwiw.

[Steve Hampsten]

That was a car we were in? I thought it was the DWF ManCave on Wheels(tm) - adding to the funk seemed like a reasonable thing to do at the time.

And I want my kidney back.

(Would it not make sense for an enterprising bicycle tool company to sell logo'ed - oh, I don't know - shot glasses, say? You can pay me later. Oh yes - you also promised me a set of MAX tubes and lugs. I have not forgotten)

[72gmc]

Well, before Archibald tossed a flaming bag of dog poo into the fireworks factory I was going to say that if Serotta felt the need to hang out with the NAHBS crowd I, as a consumer, would love to meet the people and see some of their heritage (i.e. bikes built for legendary racers of yore) as well as some of their current work (including "uncharacteristic" bikes like a certain wine-hauler unveiled recently).

But that's their if to answer. And I'm the guy left on the corner while everyone else runs to see the big pretty flames.

[shinomaster]

I thought it was always happy hour in Portland...
At least it has been everytime I've been there.

What are you trying to say? James you should build a free custom Ti frame for Ryan Weaver. Paint it like a gum ball.

[rphetteplace]

nevermind

[Peter P.]

Serotta should ABSOLUTELY attend. They should look at it as an opportunity to showcase the skills of their builders by offering one-off/custom frames and/or focus on the finishes to illustrate what their paint department can do, or if not can do, then at least it will confirm their competence.

Next, perhaps they'll gain ideas from other builders, or make connections with some of them that will turn into future business relationships.

If Serotta doesn't show up, then shame on them.

[rounder]

I think it would be cool for NAHBS to be open to all comers from North America...but all entrants must be prepared to build and sell (make available) what they bring. I bet the folks already there (sachs et al) would more than hold their own.

[Archibald]

[Ensconced a safe distance away from a very dangerous and offensive post reflecting on all manners of indiginities, such as drunkeness, natural bodily functions, and the occasional barnyard animal, we find Serotta Pete is now holding the Holy Censor Hand Grenade of Antioch]

Serotta Pete: How does it... um... how does it work?

Serotta Andrew: I know not, my liege.

Serotta James: Consult the Book of Armaments.

Serotta Andrew: Armaments, chapter two, verses nine through twenty-one.
[reading] And Saint Attila raised the censor grenade up on high, saying, "O Lord, bless this thy censor grenade, that with it thou mayst blow thine inappropriate posts to tiny bits, in thy mercy." And the Lord did grin. And the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths, and carp and anchovies, and orangutans and breakfast cereals, and fruit-bats and large chu...

Serotta James: Skip a bit, Brother...

Serotta Andrew: And the Lord spake, saying, "First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Censor Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy post, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it.

BBD: Amen.

Serotta Pete: Right. One... two... five.

Serotta James: Three, sir.

Serotta Pete: Three.

:banana: :banana: :banana:

[93legendti]

You might need a 5th alias.

[Pete Serotta]

Archibald, I do this censoring thing as a very last resort....I am not in the SEROTTA employ and do this on a volunteer basis, I want to keep the FORUM open and "free expression" as possible - for ALL to enjoy

In regard to this thread, it had to do with the topics of "jews" and also Richie's wife.... It was your ID and one other that were involved with the topic.

While I am sure that you meant nothing personally. It could be found distasteful to some and quite franky not to pass the buck, it did feel offensive to me, and no I am not Jewish and it was not my wife.

Additionally but as a side note, it had nothing to do with NAHBS or bicycling in general. The other fellow with the ID(jmekill) that tried to define was also deleted.

We need to "police" ourselves and when we don;t I have the unpleasant and unpopular task of doing something. In the past we sent private notes and took entire threads down. I think it is best to keep the tread open whenever possible and also to say why and what was done. (That is why I showed to the forum public that it was deleted and I did it.).

I truly am sorry for doing it and ask all of us to treat others as we want to be treated and think about what we type and what it could mean to others when we do it.

Again I apologize for doing it but I felt I was left with no other choice. I assure you I have much better things to do than scan threads and try to act like a web cop or censor.


[Ensconced a safe distance away from a very dangerous and offensive post reflecting on all manners of indiginities, such as drunkeness, natural bodily functions, and the occasional barnyard animal, we find Serotta Pete is now holding the Holy Censor Hand Grenade of Antioch]

Serotta Pete: How does it... um... how does it work?

Serotta Andrew: I know not, my liege.

Serotta James: Consult the Book of Armaments.

Serotta Andrew: Armaments, chapter two, verses nine through twenty-one.
[reading] And Saint Attila raised the censor grenade up on high, saying, "O Lord, bless this thy censor grenade, that with it thou mayst blow thine inappropriate posts to tiny bits, in thy mercy." And the Lord did grin. And the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths, and carp and anchovies, and orangutans and breakfast cereals, and fruit-bats and large chu...

Serotta James: Skip a bit, Brother...

Serotta Andrew: And the Lord spake, saying, "First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Censor Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy post, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it.

BBD: Amen.

Serotta Pete: Right. One... two... five.

Serotta James: Three, sir.

Serotta Pete: Three.

:banana: :banana: :banana:

[Archibald]

Archibald, I do this censoring thing as a very last resort....I am not in the SEROTTA employ and do this on a volunteer basis, I want to keep the FORUM open and "free expression" as possible - for ALL to enjoy

In regard to this thread, it had to do with the topics of "jews" and also Richie's wife.... It was your ID and one other that were involved with the topic.

While I am sure that you meant nothing personally. It could be found distasteful to some and quite franky not to pass the buck, it did feel offensive to me, and no I am not Jewish and it was not my wife.

Additionally but as a side note, it had nothing to do with NAHBS or bicycling in general. The other fellow with the ID(jmekill) that tried to define was also deleted.

We need to "police" ourselves and when we don;t I have the unpleasant and unpopular task of doing something. It the past we sent private notes and took entire threads down. I think it is best to keep the tread open whenever possible and also to say why and what was done. (That is why I showed to the forum public that it was deleted and I did it.).

I truly an sorry for doing it and ask all of us to treat others as we want to be treated and think about what we type and what it could mean to others when we do it.

Again I apologize for doing it but I felt I was left with no other choice. I assure you I have much better things to do than scan threads and try to act like a web cop or censor.
Yo Pete - You're a decent fellow; I don't hold it against you and I find the whole thing very funny.

[pdbrye]

Archibald, check your pm for some additional insight.

[Kirk Pacenti]

Serotta Pete: How does it... um... how does it work?

Serotta Andrew: I know not, my liege.

Serotta James: Consult the Book of Armaments.

BBD: Amen.

Serotta Pete: Right. One... two... five.

Serotta James: Three, sir.

Serotta Pete: Three.

:banana: :banana: :banana:

This reminds me of "The Prisoner", the British Spy-Sci-Fi series from the late 60's.

Prisoner: Where am I?
Number Two: In The Village.
Prisoner: What do you want?
Number Two: Information.
Prisoner: Which side are you on?
Number Two: That would be telling. We want information, information, information...
Prisoner: You won't get it.
Number Two: By hook or by crook we will.
Prisoner: Who are you?
Number Two: The new Number Two.
Prisoner: Who is Number One?
Number Two: You are Number Six.
Prisoner: I am not a number. I am a free man.
Number Two: Ha, ha, ha, ha....

They used this bit in an Iron Maiden song of the same name once too... ;)

[Bud_E]

This reminds me of "The Prisoner", the British Spy-Sci-Fi series from the late 60's.

Prisoner: Where am I?
Number Two: In The Village.
Prisoner: What do you want?
Number Two: Information.
Prisoner: Which side are you on?
Number Two: That would be telling. We want information, information, information...
Prisoner: You won't get it.
Number Two: By hook or by crook we will.
Prisoner: Who are you?
Number Two: The new Number Two.
Prisoner: Who is Number One?
Number Two: You are Number Six.
Prisoner: I am not a number. I am a free man.
Number Two: Ha, ha, ha, ha....

They used this bit in an Iron Maiden song of the same name once too... ;)

One of my favorites :

[cadence90]

Nobody belongs at any party they don't want to attend, imho.
Some people just prefer watching TV at night....

[cadence90]

who?

I'm interested

JG
Jim Kish can usually build a great custom ti frame in under 6 weeks.

And these, among other (non Seven/IF/Moots) guys, are all in the same ballpark, certainly under 5 years, give or take:
Bill Holland
Spectrum/Kellogg
Kent Ericksen
Carl Strong
Bill Davidson
Scott Quiring
Dekerf
Dean (this one included just for laughs, ho, ho!) :banana:

[cadence90]

Len,

See post at ff please.

DW
Should Shimano and Campagnolo ever be cross-indexed with Sachs-Huret and Sturmey-Archer? :confused:

[e-RICHIE]

Should Shimano and Campagnolo ever be cross-indexed with Sachs-Huret and Sturmey-Archer? :confused:
i'm gonna cross-index with curt and produce goodrichies atmo.

[cadence90]

i'm gonna cross-index with curt and produce goodrichies atmo.
Yikes.
Will they have hair on their heads?

[Steve Hampsten]

i'm gonna cross-index with curt and produce goodrichies atmo.

bagels with lutefisk, yo?

[J.Greene]

i'm gonna cross-index with curt and produce goodrichies atmo.

Can I be first in line?

JG