Does a Meivici ride better than an Attack?

[Floyd Dakil]

As I understand it, the ride qualities are virtually identical. So, is the reason the MeiVici costs about $2,600 more than the Attack simply because you have more options (eg., top tube angle, frame finish) and a few better components in places that don't really matter (eg., titanium rather than aluminum bottom bracket)?

[Bruce K]

If your original premise is true (ride quality and characteristics being the same), and I can't confirm or deny it, then having more options like top tube angle, frame finish, tube stiffness, and higher quality materials would be the difference.

The Attack is painted because (in my understanding) the carbon cannot be clear coated or tinted. This would be a big negative for some folks (like me) who would want to see the weave of the carbon.

I can tell you that my Meivici rides noticably different from my Ottrott St. PArt of that is 3 years newer, part of that is slightly different geometires, and part of it is I am sure the design and construction of the carbon lugs vs the Ti pieces.

BK

[Sandy]

The MeiVici and the Attack use different tubesets, per the Serotta website. Please go to the "Models" section on the site and click onto " Model Comparison" and you will see differences and similarities of different models.


Sandy

[Floyd Dakil]

Doesn't "TC3" (Attack) and "TC4" (MeiVici) simply refer to the number of tube set choices rather than the quality of the tube set? And aren't the "customized lugs" on the MeiVici useful only insofar as they give you more choices in top tube angle?

Let me rephrase my original question. Given identical geometry, would a MeiVici ride better than an Attack?

[SoCalSteve]

Doesn't "TC3" (Attack) and "TC4" (MeiVici) simply refer to the number of tube set choices rather than the quality of the tube set? And aren't the "customized lugs" on the MeiVici useful only insofar as they give you more choices in top tube angle?

Let me rephrase my original question. Given identical geometry, would a MeiVici ride better than an Attack?

Identical geometry AND identical tubesets??? I am not sure how far you can "tune" an Attack...as for the other, its very tuneable.

If the Attack uses the same tunable tubesets and you have identical geometry, then I imagine that they share the same ride qualities, NOT aesthetic qualities...

Have you seen an Attack in person? I have and I was not fond of the paint scheme...Of course, your results may vary.

Good luck (and you cannot go wrong with either choice)

Steve

PS: Thats why they dont paint all turbo Porsche Cayennes and bicycles green.

[93legendti]

I have a Fierte Ti, Concours, Legend ST and Ottrott ST.

The Concours rides better than the Fierte Ti.
The Legend ST rides better than the Concours.
The Ottrott ST rides better than the Legend ST.

They all ride great.

Does the Meivici ride better than the Attack? I don't know, but I think the answer is yes.

[Skrawny]

I have been lucky enough to put both to the test for at least 40 miles.

Much depends on your definition of "better ride."
With the caveat that it is hard to compare apples to apples, I found that the Meivici was light and buttery smoooooth, while the Attack was also light, but quicker/friskier feeling and a little harsher as far as the ride. Please note that I am not calling the Attack "harsh" in any way, I'm just calling it harsher than one of the smoothest bikes I've ridden. I am also avoiding the word "stiff" because I am sure that I cannot twist the bottom bracket of either and there have been long debates on the merits and definition of "stiffness."

As Bruce K said, I believe that a good deal of the cost of a carbon frame goes into the aesthetic CF wrap around the tubes that looks so gorgeous on the Meivici. I surmise, that one of the cost savings on the Attack, is due to the lack of this CF wrap and is the reason it is only painted.

A good source would be one of the lucky chumps like Serotta James who get to ride these bike in multiple different setups and can give a sense of the "personality" of each model. (if you're out there James, when you in SF next? I need a Pliny!)

-s

[vaxn8r]

I have been lucky enough to put both to the test for at least 40 miles.

Much depends on your definition of "better ride."
With the caveat that it is hard to compare apples to apples, I found that the Meivici was light and buttery smoooooth, while the Attack was also light, but quicker/friskier feeling and a little harsher as far as the ride. Please note that I am not calling the Attack "harsh" in any way, I'm just calling it harsher than one of the smoothest bikes I've ridden. I am also avoiding the word "stiff" because I am sure that I cannot twist the bottom bracket of either and there have been long debates on the merits and definition of "stiffness."

As Bruce K said, I believe that a good deal of the cost of a carbon frame goes into the aesthetic CF wrap around the tubes that looks so gorgeous on the Meivici. I surmise, that one of the cost savings on the Attack, is due to the lack of this CF wrap and is the reason it is only painted.

A good source would be one of the lucky chumps like Serotta James who get to ride these bike in multiple different setups and can give a sense of the "personality" of each model. (if you're out there James, when you in SF next? I need a Pliny!)

-s

Never rode a Meivici but I rode an Attack. Saying it rides harsh is not far off base. Probably great for shortish races but I think with the stiffest tubeset and stiffest fork lay-up it was...overkill. Not really that fun to ride. OTOH, I don't think my Legend is ultra stiff but I've never had an issue getting it up to speed.

I think performance in a bike is much more determined by proper design and balance than in glueing or welding the fattest, stiffest tubeset you can find. ATMO.

[fierte_poser]

As I understand it, the ride qualities are virtually identical. So, is the reason the MeiVici costs about $2,600 more than the Attack simply because you have more options (eg., top tube angle, frame finish) and a few better components in places that don't really matter (eg., titanium rather than aluminum bottom bracket)?

Are you asking because you're just curious, or are you looking for buying advice? If you are just curious, then this forum is a good place to hear lots of quasi-informed opinions. We may or may not be able to get Serotta James to jump in and tell us about all the different carbon tubes Serotta uses from the top to the bottom of the product line and the differences between them, but, short of that, you're just going to get a [somewhat] random sample of responses. And... yes... I consider 'I rode an Attack for 40 miles... here's what I thought' somewhat random. Just sayin'...

On the other hand, if you're really looking for buying advice, I would call Serotta and talk to Kelly Beford himself. My suspicion is that Serotta has the flexibility in tubeset choices and geometry for both the Attack and the Meivici to build whatever sort of bicycle you are interested in. Its simply a different price point, but that price difference does include real differences.

The Attack is the penultimate choice... the Meivici is the ultimate choice.

My $.02,
Kent

[SoCalSteve]

Are you asking because you're just curious, or are you looking for buying advice? If you are just curious, then this forum is a good place to hear lots of quasi-informed opinions. We may or may not be able to get Serotta James to jump in and tell us about all the different carbon tubes Serotta uses from the top to the bottom of the product line and the differences between them, but, short of that, you're just going to get a [somewhat] random sample of responses. And... yes... I consider 'I rode an Attack for 40 miles... here's what I thought' somewhat random. Just sayin'...

On the other hand, if you're really looking for buying advice, I would call Serotta and talk to Kelly Beford himself. My suspicion is that Serotta has the flexibility in tubeset choices and geometry for both the Attack and the Meivici to build whatever sort of bicycle you are interested in. Its simply a different price point, but that price difference does include real differences.

The Attack is the penultimate choice... the Meivici is the ultimate choice.

My $.02,
Kent

Great advice!

He is the man with the BEST information about tubesets,etc and what Serotta can and will build for you...

Besides that, he is pretty great guy!!! :banana:

When I had my Ottrott built, I spoke to Kelly a couple of times along the way and with his advice, I ended up with the bike frame that I wanted.

Steve

[93legendti]

Great advice!

He is the man with the BEST information about tubesets,etc and what Serotta can and will build for you...

Besides that, he is pretty great guy!!! :banana:

When I had my Ottrott built, I spoke to Kelly a couple of times along the way and with his advice, I ended up with the bike frame that I wanted.

Steve

Ditto.

[Bruce K]

I have had conversations with Kelly for both the Ottrott build and the Concours Cross.

The Ottrott was exactly the bike I wanted it to be and the Cross was close, but Kelly carefully and gently explained why it had to be what it was.

The ride turned out to be perfect and it was only a minor geometry issue to create enough stand-over height that was the "compromise".

Steve Fairchild did most of the work-up on the Meivici and the bike was once again dead-on for what I wanted.

I guess what I'm saying is that theree are lots of knowledgable, patient, and basically good folks at Serotta who are generally more than happy to help out a customer.

That's why I keep going back to the well.

BK

[Pete Serotta]

Let me suggest that you get sized/fitted first for your body, type of ride, and any other characteristics AND then ask Kelly and your fitter what the advantiage of the Meivici is over the attack based on your requirements. There could or could not be advantages for your presonal situation.

Additionally, before dropping that amount of $$s take a look at the two and if possible have a ride.

Good luck shopping - - both are wonderful rides. Mike from CYCLESPORT has been able to put quite a few miles on both, as well as SEROTTA JAMES.



As I understand it, the ride qualities are virtually identical. So, is the reason the MeiVici costs about $2,600 more than the Attack simply because you have more options (eg., top tube angle, frame finish) and a few better components in places that don't really matter (eg., titanium rather than aluminum bottom bracket)?

[swoop]

when one thing is different han the other.. it doesn't mean that one is better or worse.. its just different, me thinks.

a bike is basically a bunch of compromises along any number of dimensions and so once you meet a certain threshold of functionality and fit.... it becomes less about better or worse and more about differences and range of application.

or something like that.com

feel me?

[Fixed]

I'm pretty dumb but imho it all depends on you
cheers

[SoCalSteve]

when one thing is different han the other.. it doesn't mean that one is better or worse.. its just different, me thinks.

a bike is basically a bunch of compromises along any number of dimensions and so once you meet a certain threshold of functionality and fit.... it becomes less about better or worse and more about differences and range of application.

or something like that.com
feel me?

New name for a website? or ???

Just askin',

Steve

[vaxn8r]

Are you asking because you're just curious, or are you looking for buying advice? If you are just curious, then this forum is a good place to hear lots of quasi-informed opinions. We may or may not be able to get Serotta James to jump in and tell us about all the different carbon tubes Serotta uses from the top to the bottom of the product line and the differences between them, but, short of that, you're just going to get a [somewhat] random sample of responses. And... yes... I consider 'I rode an Attack for 40 miles... here's what I thought' somewhat random. Just sayin'...

On the other hand, if you're really looking for buying advice, I would call Serotta and talk to Kelly Beford himself. My suspicion is that Serotta has the flexibility in tubeset choices and geometry for both the Attack and the Meivici to build whatever sort of bicycle you are interested in. Its simply a different price point, but that price difference does include real differences.

The Attack is the penultimate choice... the Meivici is the ultimate choice.My $.02,
Kent
Just curious on what you base your last opinion.

[fierte_poser]

vaxn8r,

Should have said, "For Serotta full carbon framesets..."

Are we good? :beer:

Kent

[vaxn8r]

Yeah, that's cool. I, for one, like reading people's opinions on frames. Especially if you know something about their experience, riding style, their size, whether or not they race or have raced or maybe if they just like to ride all day. But I think the more opinions the better. Add that to what you know you like and _then_ have a conversation with Kelly or whoever.

I see too many people ATMO buying high end bikes and turning them around and selling them. Some of them probably just like buying new things. Others probably should have asked more questions before diving into the highest price bike they could afford. Again, ATMO.

[Floyd Dakil]

I am trying to get an idea of the difference in ride qualities between the MeiVici and the Attack. I already have an Ottrott St and a Legend Ti and greatly enjoy their different ride qualities. Even though the Ottrott is "superior" to the Legend Ti, I love to ride the Legend for its bouncy comfort. So I totally agree with the poster who said that there's a distinction between "better" and "different." The Ottrott and the Legend are two different animals (but is that true of the MeiVici and Attack?).

I am also trying to get an idea of how much of the higher price of the MeiVici reflects merely aesthetic choices. To some degree, the choice of top tube angle is aesthetic. A lot of people prefer the classic look of a near-horizontal top tube, rather than a sloping one. With the Attack, you don't have a choice. (It has a sloping top tube.) But as for ride quality, I question whether horizontal or sloped really makes a significant difference. As for frame finish, I actually like the standard finish on the Attack, although I can totally understand why some would prefer the clear coat option.

Someone posted this photo of a MeiVici.

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/358/dsc0005mediumhl3.jpg

This is a lovely bike with a clear coat and candy red finish. But I think the white background of the Attack with candy red would also be lovely. So the greater finish options on the MeiVici don't seem worth the extra cost to me personally.

But if the ride qualities are different, I could see owning an Attack and a MeiVici. Someone reported earlier that the Attack is more responsive and accelerates faster than a MeiVici but that the ride of the Attack is harsh and the MeiVici is "buttery." It sounds to me like two very different bikes!

I've ridden the Attack, and I think it is vastly superior to the Ottrott. For one thing, it weighed about 15-1/2 pounds as opposed to 17-1/2 pounds. So it felt as if it had an invisible motor, making me feel like Superman (at least temporarily). Secondly, there is far less vibration on the Attack than on the Ottrott. So in that sense, it is a very smooth ride. But I do seem to feel every little grain of asphalt on the Attack. Whether you're on a grainy or smooth pavement, the Ottrott still feels like you're riding on rails. That's not true of the Attack, but I don't mind feeling the road as long as there is so little vibration. So to me, it makes perfect sense to own a Legend, an Ottrott, and an Attack. They all offer unique rides that are worth the cost of admission.

The question is whether the same can be said for the Attack versus the MeiVici.

I appreciate the suggestion to talk to the people at Serotta. But for now, I'm interested in getting commentary from Joe Public.

Thanks to everyone for your courteous replies.

[vaxn8r]

The more the merrier, bikes that is.

I would guess there might be more difference in how they build up your Meivici than in comparing an Attack and Meivici built with the same lay-ups. There are several lay-ups one can choose on either bike. The one caveat, the Meivici has an ST rear end and the attack doesn't iirc.

Good luck.

[SoCalSteve]

The more the merrier, bikes that is.

I would guess there might be more difference in how they build up your Meivici than in comparing an Attack and Meivici built with the same lay-ups. There are several lay-ups one can choose on either bike. The one caveat, the Meivici has an ST rear end and the attack doesn't iirc.
Good luck.

With all due respect, the only bikes that have the ST rear end are the Legend and Ottrott...Carbon rear end bikes and steel rear end bikes do not have ST rears.

This was explained to me by someone at Serotta ( I have forgotten who now)as the ST only works with a Ti rear end.

Steve

[Skrawny]

SoCal is correct.
The Meivici & Attack look like they should have an ST rear, but the bearing has been removed. Therefore they don't quite have an ST, nor is it really a CS seatstay.

-s

[Fixed]

bro here is how nice serotta is i called them and asked one of my typical dumb ouestions
i left a messeage and kelly b. himself called me back and told me never call them again ......
just kidding he called me back and took his time talked to me for a long time and even told me he use to buid and live in miami ..cool cat imho
cheers

[ecl2k]

Meivici costs more, so it rides better, if it didn't then serotta's universe would crumble, and the meivici owners would grumble. Expect a new model to appear in a few months which will cost more than the Meivici due to the use of a stronger, lighter, newly declassified carbon fiber and/or an improvement in framebuilding methods. Then people will post about Meivici vs the new bike, and everyone will say that the new bike is the ultimate, and the Meivici is next to the best. Welcome to serotta, may I take your order?

[vaxn8r]

With all due respect, the only bikes that have the ST rear end are the Legend and Ottrott...Carbon rear end bikes and steel rear end bikes do not have ST rears.

This was explained to me by someone at Serotta ( I have forgotten who now)as the ST only works with a Ti rear end.

Steve
***? Then how can the Meivici be the ultimate Serotta? I've read the ST stay is _the_most comfortable stay in the world. :confused:




Thanks for the info Steve.

[Fixed]

bro a lot of this stuff is in your head imho
cheers

[Jeff N.]

Looks like the '08 Meivici has cable barrel adjusters! They must've listened to me! Strong work! Jeff N.