Weird Saddle experience...

[benb]

Just curious if anyone has had trouble like this.

I've been riding a Specialized Alias (155) for about 1300-1400 miles, longest ride has been 115 miles, lots of 50 milers and a handful of 75-80 mile rides.

It took a while for me to get the saddle "right" but it's never been perfect. Good enough though.

But now all of a sudden the last couple hundred miles it's totally gone downhill.

I've had numbness (the bad kind) my last 2 long rides, and yesterday in only 40 miles I got a saddle sore in a place I've never, ever had one before. The numbness has always been after climbing steady grades around 7-8% in the saddle. The saddle sores seem to be from sliding forward when going downhills in the saddle.. (friction between shorts & saddle) Problem is when I start putting the nose up that's when the numbness starts & the front of the saddle hurts like crazy.

My sit-bones measure out at 150mm.. this year was the first year I knew I had "wide sitbones" after 7 years of heavy cycling.

I've had more trouble with saddles sores this year then ever before and I've *never* had numbness ever, even though I was frequently riding saddles that were way too narrow. I've put up with lots of "pain" but never numbness and saddle sores have been very rare.

I think the thing is this year I've been trying to ride saddles with cutouts and I don't think it works at all for me...

I'm close to ordering a Brooks.. not sure which one to try but I'm leaning towards the Team Pro. The other one I was going to try was the Selle San Marco Aspide Glamour, which is actually a women's saddle. It seems to have the right shape for a man and several guys have recommended it to me. It's cheap too, the price and weight of the Brooks stuff is definitely getting to me, as I've been trying too many saddles.

A big issue seems to be many wide saddles have wide noses & too much padding.. which is no good for me. I'm thinking I want something 155-160mm wide in the back but then seriously narrow like a flite through the middle & nose. (The brooks designs do seem to have this)

But anyway I'm mostly curious on the weirdness of why this saddle would suddenly seem to have gotten so much worse. No change was made to my position... is this likely something about my butt just saying "no" all of a sudden or is it the saddle breaking in or breaking down?

I think I'm sticking my Toupe 143 back on for now since I have it and it costs $0... at least it doesn't give me saddle sores... I'd rather deal with "pain" then sores or numbness.

[SoCalSteve]

Just curious if anyone has had trouble like this.

I've been riding a Specialized Alias (155) for about 1300-1400 miles, longest ride has been 115 miles, lots of 50 milers and a handful of 75-80 mile rides.

It took a while for me to get the saddle "right" but it's never been perfect. Good enough though.

But now all of a sudden the last couple hundred miles it's totally gone downhill.

I've had numbness (the bad kind) my last 2 long rides, and yesterday in only 40 miles I got a saddle sore in a place I've never, ever had one before. The numbness has always been after climbing steady grades around 7-8% in the saddle. The saddle sores seem to be from sliding forward when going downhills in the saddle.. (friction between shorts & saddle) Problem is when I start putting the nose up that's when the numbness starts & the front of the saddle hurts like crazy.

My sit-bones measure out at 150mm.. this year was the first year I knew I had "wide sitbones" after 7 years of heavy cycling.

I've had more trouble with saddles sores this year then ever before and I've *never* had numbness ever, even though I was frequently riding saddles that were way too narrow. I've put up with lots of "pain" but never numbness and saddle sores have been very rare.

I think the thing is this year I've been trying to ride saddles with cutouts and I don't think it works at all for me...

I'm close to ordering a Brooks.. not sure which one to try but I'm leaning towards the Team Pro. The other one I was going to try was the Selle San Marco Aspide Glamour, which is actually a women's saddle. It seems to have the right shape for a man and several guys have recommended it to me. It's cheap too, the price and weight of the Brooks stuff is definitely getting to me, as I've been trying too many saddles.

A big issue seems to be many wide saddles have wide noses & too much padding.. which is no good for me. I'm thinking I want something 155-160mm wide in the back but then seriously narrow like a flite through the middle & nose. (The brooks designs do seem to have this)

But anyway I'm mostly curious on the weirdness of why this saddle would suddenly seem to have gotten so much worse. No change was made to my position... is this likely something about my butt just saying "no" all of a sudden or is it the saddle breaking in or breaking down?

I think I'm sticking my Toupe 143 back on for now since I have it and it costs $0... at least it doesn't give me saddle sores... I'd rather deal with "pain" then sores or numbness.

Life's too short NOT to ride a Brooks saddle...

Havent I said that before?

Just sayin'

Steve

[Tom]

Check the shell.

I had two Specialized saddles. The first one, the metal rails snapped off one morning after less than a year. It had never been moved since the bike left the shop, and the shop doesn't break stuff, so I chalk it up to a bad set of rails. So did the shop, they simply handed me another one.

The second one, shell cracked nearly in half. Maybe it didn't like cold weather, I don't know.



I assumed abrasions and saddle sores were part of the deal, especially in hot weather.

I got a Fizik Arione. No issues of any kind some 4000 miles later. Saddles are like running shoes. Really good ones might not fit you at all - I never was able to find a New Balance shoe I could ever wear without severe foot pain - and a cheapo one might be perfect. I really like the Fizik. It's not cheap but it works really well for me.

[Firenze]

2385 miles on my Brooks Swallow - never a problem.
Bought mine from Wallingford - They offer a "6 month unconditional satisfaction guarantee to trade or get a refund". Hard to beat that. They occasionaly sell the returns on ebay at about 1/2 price.

Steve is right, life is too short and my rides are too long not to ride a Brooks.
Arch

[benb]

I sent Wallingford an email on assistance regarding trying a Swift/Swallow or a Team Pro.

I'll probably try the Swift if they'll let me switch to the Team Pro if it doesn't work out right.

I have to admit I like the Aesthetics of the Swift and Swallow way better then the Team Pro and B-17.. at least for my Concours.. if I was looking for a seat for a Rivendell or something like that I wouldn't care at all.

I'll have to check my saddle.. that's really interesting that they could crack.. I've never had a saddle crack, I have trashed rails on MTB seats before. The rails on my Alias are definitely fine, but I haven't looked at the underside to see if it could have cracked.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . is that the ones I've seen have been pretty expensive and users say it takes a while to get the saddle broken in and adapted to your particular perineal geography. Until that happenes you might continue to have the same sort of problems.

I agree with Tom about the Arione. I had one for the past 2.5 seasons until the saddle bed cracked in half on the MS ride some weeks ago. I have an e-mail and photos sent in to Fizik's warranty person, but so far have not heard back. I would buy another one in a second . . . wide, long and comfortable.

If you want to experiment, though, eBay is a godsend for saddles. Because they are such a personal thing, there's lots on there where somebody has bought one, ridden it twice, decided they don't like it and they put it up for auction--and you save money.

Another cost-saver opetion is that most bike stores of any size have a bsket full of "take-offs" from bikes they have sold and sometimes there's some pretty nice stuff in there at fire-sale prices. Worth checking . . .

BBD

[benb]

There's no way I can make do on an Arione. It's like a 20 minute saddle for me due to it's extreme narrow width. (I've tried it before.. and I've also owned an Aliante) Fizik is definitely not trying to attract buyers with wider sitbones.

Trust me I've tried lots.. no way I'd even consider trying a Brooks if I hadn't already spent a fortune on cheaper saddles.

[SoCalSteve]

. . . is that the ones I've seen have been pretty expensive and users say it takes a while to get the saddle broken in and adapted to your particular perineal geography. Until that happenes you might continue to have the same sort of problems.

I agree with Tom about the Arione. I had one for the past 2.5 seasons until the saddle bed cracked in half on the MS ride some weeks ago. I have an e-mail and photos sent in to Fizik's warranty person, but so far have not heard back. I would buy another one in a second . . . wide, long and comfortable.

If you want to experiment, though, eBay is a godsend for saddles. Because they are such a personal thing, there's lots on there where somebody has bought one, ridden it twice, decided they don't like it and they put it up for auction--and you save money.

Another cost-saver opetion is that most bike stores of any size have a bsket full of "take-offs" from bikes they have sold and sometimes there's some pretty nice stuff in there at fire-sale prices. Worth checking . . .

BBD

I think this is a misconception..If you have the saddled mounted correctly in the first place....It will be comfortable from the beginning....it will get MORE comfortable the more it breaks in...

I hated my Brooks the first time I used it...I didnt have it tilted properly and could not get comfortable and kept sliding....I asked the fine people on this forum and they set me straight...

Many thousands of miles later, I am still loving my Brooks saddles, whether they are new right out of the box or have a thousand miles on them...

Like everything else, your results may vary as it it is so subjective and personal...All I know is that it worked for me....

As for the looks and weight aspect...The looks will grow on you and for weight...If you are able to sit comfortably in your saddle for long periods of time, isnt that worth a weight penalty? (I could go on and on about this weight thing, but I wont)

Good luck,

Steve

[benb]

I'm not really having any issues with the weight.. it's not a huge increase in weight as I'm already using fairly large saddles.

Cost and appearance are the thing. There is nothing retro/classic about my bike.. it'd take some getting used to.

Doesn't really matter though.. unless I end up racing next year I ride alone 99% of the time, no one is going to say anything about my saddle and I completely agree.. the more comfy I am, the faster I'll be.

[BumbleBeeDave]

If you're comfortable with the, er, comfort, the weight, AND the looks, then that's great. I'm all for the comfort, I just want less weight and more modern looks and there's enough choice in the market to be able to have that. Sounds like Ben may feel kinda the same way. Nothing wrong with Brooks if you happen to like the feature set. I just don't happen to.

BBD

[Climb01742]

how you tried a regal?

[benb]

So after emailing Wallingford I just ordered a Swift Ti in Black.

They had said the price was going up from $235 to somewhere near $350 for the Swift Ti or Team Pro Ti after the current supply runs out... so I will have a rude surprise if the Swift doesn't work out. (If it doesn't work maybe I'll just return it and try something else completely.)

Even $200 seems insane for a saddle, but if it works...

edit: I haven't tried a Regal.. it sounded like they are actually less then 150mm wide so I've thought they'll be too narrow.

There return policy is really awesome.. the policy I'm used to is, "Yah you can return it within 2 weeks, but it has to look flawless". I've never been able to return one cause usually even mounting it on the bike will mark the Saddle rails.

You guys got me.. in my original post I did indeed mention the weight as bothersome. Realistically it's not the end of the world though.

[shaq-d]

So after emailing Wallingford I just ordered a Swift Ti in Black.

They had said the price was going up from $235 to somewhere near $350 for the Swift Ti or Team Pro Ti after the current supply runs out... so I will have a rude surprise if the Swift doesn't work out. (If it doesn't work maybe I'll just return it and try something else completely.)

Even $200 seems insane for a saddle, but if it works...

edit: I haven't tried a Regal.. it sounded like they are actually less then 150mm wide so I've thought they'll be too narrow.

There return policy is really awesome.. the policy I'm used to is, "Yah you can return it within 2 weeks, but it has to look flawless". I've never been able to return one cause usually even mounting it on the bike will mark the Saddle rails.

well ok, but the brooks b17 is only 70 bucks, not 200... the swift/etc. looks just like a race saddle, slim and not wide. if what you have is large sit bones i still suggest a basic brooks b17.

also, if ur saddle got gradually worse, is it possible the seat post was sliding down? might have to re-raise it.

sd

[benb]

Wall Bike suggested the 2 I was talking about.

My seatpost is not slipping.. I'm super paranoid. It gets checked like 2-3x a week.

Gotta actually say the Serotta seat collar seems to be awesome.. I wouldn't ever expect to see the post slip in a million years.

[davids]

I got a Fizik Arione. No issues of any kind some 4000 miles later. Saddles are like running shoes. Really good ones might not fit you at all - I never was able to find a New Balance shoe I could ever wear without severe foot pain - and a cheapo one might be perfect. I really like the Fizik. It's not cheap but it works really well for me.
The Arione is the worst saddle I have ever used, except for all the others. (The Regal is a close second.) After three years, the one on my Seven is beginning to 'hammock' a bit - I will absolutely replace it with another Arione.

But Tom's correct - Saddle fit is very personal. If the Alias was working well for you, I'd look for something with a similar shape but better reliability!

[Ken Robb]

In my experience it's not ALL about the width but it is about the shape. I love my B-17 and Team Pro Brooks. But surprise-surprise I'm very comfy on my Ariones; they are narrow but their curve obviously fits mine and so spreads the load over a large area and thereby reduces psi on my skin.

[SoCalSteve]

Just curious as to how long a $100.00 to $150.00 plastic saddle lasts...Maybe 5 years, if that...

A Brooks saddle at $200.00 (taken care of ) will last, Oh, Im not sure...maybe a LIFETIME...I think its a MUCH better investment.

As someopne once told me about the looks of a Brooks saddle: Dont get off the bike and no one will see the saddle.

As for weight, the Ti railed Brooks saddles are between 300 and 400 grams...Arent most plastic saddles about 200 to 250 grams? I mean, except for the ones that are just a slab of carbon fiber...Ouch!

Just sayin'

Steve

PS: When people see that I ride a Brooks saddle, most of them are more curious than anything...Maybe because they are all in such pain (not quite sure as to the why)...

[fiamme red]

...is that the ones I've seen have been pretty expensive and users say it takes a while to get the saddle broken in and adapted to your particular perineal geography. Until that happenes you might continue to have the same sort of problems.In my case, I used a Brooks B-17N for 2,000 miles, and it was still as hard and uncomfortable as if it were new. And the B-17 was too wide for me and I kept getting saddle sores. So I've given up on Brooks saddles.

You might try an old-fashioned plastic saddle, e.g., Regal or Rolls (or Concor or Turbo, if you can get one).

[benb]

I forgot about that...

If the Brooks works I can easily recoup the cost by selling some of my collection of plastic saddles.

I've bought 4 plasti-saddles this year. $430 total. :crap:

[Clydesdale]

I haven't found it yet. Tried the trans am and liked it fine but never got away from some soreness. The gel saddles hate me and I feel the same toward them. On a recent ride atop an arione, I got a burning sensation on the bottom of my right cheek. Ignored it until I got home and checked everything out. The saddle bed had cracked all the way through and at the side, it was gapping and pinching on every pedal-stroke. Not a saddle sore exactly, more like a wound. Anyway, threw an old concor light back on the bike and it is doing fine. I tend to do better with minimal padding and like the saddles with a little lip on the back to sit on when things get tired/sore.

One thing about it, you don't hear many people say they tried a brooks and didn't like it. That must mean something.

Good luck

[Simon Q]

The only saddle that I never think about is the Aliante and it is therefore my favourite piece of cycling equipment. I had issues with most others - I tried almost all of them although not Brooks as the Aliante saved before I got there. I would have tried a Brooks but very happy that I have a light, modern sadddle that does the trick.

All very personal of course but in consumer reviews you do read of many people having the same experience of Aliante being a complete revalation: for those it suits it is a saviour. Set up (esp angle) is critical...

[wasfast]

As usual, there's a dozen "it's great" and "it's crap".....there's nothing more variable than saddle selection.

I have wide sits bones as well. It's really difficult to find proper fitting saddles. I have Aliante's on both my bikes and they are tolerable, the best solution I've found in the last 4 years and 16K miles. The biggest issue is that my sits bones are literally hitting the edges of the saddle.

My second closest choice to date is the Regal. It's a bit wide in the front section so my thighs rub more there.

One common choice is the Fizik Vitesse. Sold as a women's saddle, it's very similar to the Aliante but 25% of the cost and 155 wide. I have a brand new one that I'll send you on spec. If you like it, you pay $40. If you don't, just mail it back to me. PM if interested.

I had horrible issues with saddle sores the first 2 years. What has worked for me is Assos shorts and bag balm on EVERY RIDE. No lube and I'll get 2-3 sores easily. Not good. I've tried 5 different shorts with similiar 1 piece chamois and none were comfortable. Take a look at your current shorts and see if that may be the problem.

[vaxn8r]

ben, 2 thoughts on your original post. First, what about your shorts? Padding? Is it worn out. That can make a big difference. Padding wears.

Secondly, the new Specialized seats (like the Toupe) have been demonstrated to improve blood flow but they have to be slightly pointed downwards. If you level it off, it was no better than any other saddle at the blood flow thang, which in turn can cause numbness and other problems.

[vaxn8r]

Brooks aren't racing saddles.

[BarryG]

For those of us sensitive to developing central numbness and normally looking for a central recess/cutout in the saddle, is it correct to assume the Brooks is probably not a good choice?

[William]

I hate to keep bringing my size up, but at 255 - 260 pounds and just over six and a half feet tall, strangely the Flite saddle fits me just fine. Before I first tried it I thought there was no way that skinny saddle was going to work for me. I was wrong and I've been riding them ever since.

Oh, I've pondered trying out a Brooks or some other saddles many times, but then I always go back to the; "Why mess with a good thing" mentality.




William

[stevep]

i have 5 brand new concor lites sitting in boxes in my basement.
the new paranoia... in case they stop making the thing.
great saddle ( for me )

no interest here in trying anything else.

[regularguy412]

I think one has to determine if there are not other, physical factors at work to coincidentally cause a problem. Once again, I have only my own experience to correlate, so I know I may be opening up a whole new can of worms ( donning flame-retardant suit, now ).

I rode and raced for eight years, acquiring over 40,000 miles, before I finally figured out my saddle sore issue. I was usually purchasing one or two new saddles a year, thinking, ' It's _GOTTA_ this saddle, _THIS_ time'. Unfortunately, it never was 'this ' saddle.

When I finally got fitted for my first Serotta, it was determined I had a leg-length discrepancy. Every pedal stroke, my right leg was 'reaching' for the pedal at the bottom, thereby causing my pelvis to press down harder on the right side -- the side where I usually kept an ongoing saddle sore. I shimmed my right cleat about 3.5 mm and _VOILA!_ saddle sored disappeared. That was in 1997.

Now, that said -- fast forward to this Spring. I was forced to ride my poorly-fitting Cannondale while my Serotta was being refurbished. After about ten weeks of this 'old' bike, something happened. It _REALLY_ screwed up my back. I started getting numbness and occasionally weakness in myhands, toes, feet , legs hips and glutes -- though not all at the same time. Sometimes it was only minor tingling. Other times it was outright _PAIN_ in muscles that I 'knew' hadn't done enough work to warrant any pain, whatsoever.

X-rays were done and it was noted that I have a few vertebrae out of alignment. This, too, was likely the cause of my 'leg-length discrepancy', since my pelvis is tilted to one side in my body's attempt to 'balance' my torso.

As I am now treating this condition with non-invasive (read: chiropractic and inversion therapy), many of the physical symptoms have gone away. However, I still have a way yet to go; I've only been working on this issue for about eight weeks.

I have no idea of your age or what your position is on the bike. However, I feel that our bodies change over time. We become less flexible. The saddle that 'used' to work and feel right may now be dagger in your right butt cheek. I'd make sure it was not some kind of body change that has caused some of your issues.

Mike in AR

[theprep]

Try one size smaller bibs/shorts.

If your bibs are a little loose, they are more prone to bunch up. I'm 172-175 lbs and went from large to medium Verge's this season and realized a big improvement in saddle comfort.

Ariones work for me. The fizik Gobi is a great MTB saddle that I would like to try on the road some day.

[stevep]

Try one size smaller bibs/shorts.

If your bibs are a little loose, they are more prone to bunch up. I'm 172-175 lbs and went from large to medium Verge's this season and realized a big improvement in saddle comfort.

Ariones work for me. The fizik Gobi is a great MTB saddle that I would like to try on the road some day.


excellent point on the shorts. they are meant to be snug, the stuff stretches like heck.
chamois placement is much better when they are stretched.
im the same size..medium works way better than lg for me also.

[benb]

ben, 2 thoughts on your original post. First, what about your shorts? Padding? Is it worn out. That can make a big difference. Padding wears.

Secondly, the new Specialized seats (like the Toupe) have been demonstrated to improve blood flow but they have to be slightly pointed downwards. If you level it off, it was no better than any other saddle at the blood flow thang, which in turn can cause numbness and other problems.

Yah.. definitely could be shorts. However the ones I wore last weekend are like a month old. I have some older ones, but I make sure to wear the new ones for long rides.

I should indeed try to find some one size down.

The issue I've had with the Toupe, Alias, etc.. is if I tilt them down I just can't stay in position, I slide forward as I pedal, that's what's giving me these saddle sores this year I think. They're pretty awful if they're level, as the middle area of the saddle is so flexible that you end up feeling the nose more then a saddle without a cutout.

Pretty sure I just hate cutouts.. I've had more trouble with saddles with cutouts this year then the previous 7 years combined on saddles without cutouts.

[SoCalSteve]

For those of us sensitive to developing central numbness and normally looking for a central recess/cutout in the saddle, is it correct to assume the Brooks is probably not a good choice?

This is a wrong assumption as the Brooks saddle pushes your sit bones off the saddle and in turn pushes the "sensitive" area off the saddle as well...I hardly ever get numbness riding my Brooks saddles...the only instances would be when I am doing a great deal of climbing and not coasting or standing on the pedals for a great length of time...

A saddle does not have to have a cut out to make it effective in helping keep numbness away.

Steve

[Ahneida Ride]

I think this is a misconception..If you have the saddled mounted correctly in the first place....It will be comfortable from the beginning....it will get MORE comfortable the more it breaks in...

I hated my Brooks the first time I used it...I didnt have it tilted properly and could not get comfortable and kept sliding....I asked the fine people on this forum and they set me straight...

Many thousands of miles later, I am still loving my Brooks saddles, whether they are new right out of the box or have a thousand miles on them...

Like everything else, your results may vary as it it is so subjective and personal...All I know is that it worked for me....

As for the looks and weight aspect...The looks will grow on you and for weight...If you are able to sit comfortably in your saddle for long periods of time, isnt that worth a weight penalty? (I could go on and on about this weight thing, but I wont)

Good luck,

Steve


So Cal Steve is so correct.

Small changes in positioning make for huge changes in comfort.

A Brooks should not be painful out of the box.

[Ahneida Ride]

I hate to keep bringing my size up, but at 255 - 260 pounds and just over six and a half feet tall, strangely the Flite saddle fits me just fine. Before I first tried it I thought there was no way that skinny saddle was going to work for me. I was wrong and I've been riding them ever since.

Oh, I've pondered trying out a Brooks or some other saddles many times, but then I always go back to the; "Why mess with a good thing" mentality.

William

I'll make a Brooks convert outa Uncle William yet. ;)

But seriously, if something works, don't change it.

[Rapid Tourist]

I haven't studied everyt response on this thread but here are some important points (I think)

1, If your shorts are more than a season or two old, toss em out and get all new pairs of shorts you like. I started to get a lot of saddle sores at some point when nothing about my set up had changed, and it took me farrrrr toooooo long to learn that it was worn out pads causing the chafing. Now I replace shorts almost every season.

2. ride a brooks

3. if you can't stand the weight or the break in period of a brooks, try a Fizik Vitesse-- its the only saddle anywhere near the comfort level of a brooks that I have tried, and i have wide sit bones too.

[Ray]

This is a wrong assumption as the Brooks saddle pushes your sit bones off the saddle and in turn pushes the "sensitive" area off the saddle as well...I hardly ever get numbness riding my Brooks saddles...the only instances would be when I am doing a great deal of climbing and not coasting or standing on the pedals for a great length of time...

A saddle does not have to have a cut out to make it effective in helping keep numbness away.

Steve
I agree that a saddle doesn't need a cut-out to keep numbness away. The only saddle I was unable to setup in a way to prevent numbness was a real soft gel type dealio that came on my first mountain bike. Too soft, sunk in and there was pressure on everything. But, as everyone is saying, each saddle fits each butt differently. I've been riding Brooks' for years and like them, but they're not immune or perfect either. As you break the saddle in and your sitbones form indentations, they sink relative to the central 'ridge' of the saddle and, depending on your anatomy, that ridge can press on places you don't want it to. And the B-17, B-17N, Pro, and Swift are ALL different shapes so you might hate one, tolerate another, and love yet another. Or hate 'em all, despite how much Steve loves his :)

I've personally been riding an Aliante on my road bike for several years now and have been very very happy with it - no numbness and LOTS of comfort. But I developed a real honest-to-goodness saddle sore (not just yer common chafing, but a REAL pea-sized infected and painful folicular type of a thang) earlier this year in a location that the Aliante touches and some flatter (side to side) saddles do not. So, at the moment, I'm having either a brief flirtation or the beginning of a long and fruitful relationship with a Toupe, which is flatter and harder and cut-out and isolates the sit bones rather totally. Its felt good enough on my first shake-down rides that I'm gonna stay with it a while and see how I like it longer term.

But there's really no useful COMMON knowledge about saddles - everyone has to go through the process on their own and find what works best, or at a minimum least-worst, for them.

-Ray

[BarryG]

Thanks SC Steve, I'll give the Brooks (B17 ?) a try.

If anyone has a Brooks to sell or trade for a barely used Fizik Vitesse, please pm me.