Nice guns....

[KJMUNC]

Uh, is it me or do those arms look like they below on the Mrs Olympia stage and not at a Women's Pro race?

[dauwhe]

I sincerely hope no one ever posts a photo of me riding and comments on my appearance.

Dave

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . I think at a crit where power counts in a short event, she's gonna kick @ss. But it's not exactly an endurance physique. I respect anyone who has arms like that, though. That takes work.

BBD

[oldfatslow]

. . . I think at a crit where power counts in a short event, she's gonna kick @ss. But it's not exactly an endurance physique. I respect anyone who has arms like that, though. That takes work.
BBD
Plus juice, secret sauce, and good doctors.

[Lanternrouge]

Isn't that Laura Van Guilder (who has about 350 more wins than I do)?

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . at first glance, I thought of Tammy Thomas.

BBD

[KJMUNC]

I just hope my arms look like that when I'm 40+ too. :rolleyes:

[3chordwonder]

I realize that politeness means we're all refraining from commenting - and it's the good manners of people here that I like so much about this forum - but I don't mind admitting that I am a little freaked out by that photo.

[William]

~Things that make you go Hmmmmm....~ :rolleyes:





William

[1centaur]

I realize that politeness means we're all refraining from commenting

Actually I think it's unacknowledged sexism. If that was a man, we'd all be happy to say, "yeah, those arms sure are big for a cyclist" or "Not TdF GC material but not that uncommon in crits," but because it's a woman the fear is that somebody might be offended. C'mon people, we're equal, so treat her picture as you would a man's.

I'll start: Yes, nice guns. I don't remember seeing arms like that on any habitual cyclist.

[Russity]

And you're telling me she's never been busted for high testosterone levels???

[soulspinner]

Wow-that face scrunch!

[sspielman]

. . . at first glance, I thought of Tammy Thomas.

BBD

Good for you...At first glance I thought of Superstar Billy Graham....

[BumbleBeeDave]

I realize that politeness means we're all refraining from commenting - and it's the good manners of people here that I like so much about this forum - but I don't mind admitting that I am a little freaked out by that photo.

. . . but my first reaction when I see a woman that looks like that is that she's using something. I don't think that's an unnatural reaction, nor am I trying to be sexist. That's just not a "female fit" looking body--and I'm not talking sexy female roundness. Women can have great muscles and still look extremely feminine. It's just a more "male fit" looking body, and in a female pro cyclist that sets off alarm bells.

But to be fair to her, the human body can look extremely distorted when caught by high speed photography at the moment of maximum exertion. I've seen plenty of photos that have come in over the AP wire of female high divers, gymnasts, and tennis players where they don't look normal at all because of the way they were moving and flexing at the split second the photograph was taken.

BBD

[learlove]

looks like she has got some Lance EPOstrong going on. just kidding, about her, not the lance part, she's just giving some super effort.

[david]

Good for you...At first glance I thought of Superstar Billy Graham....

i was thinkin' rick james.

[Too Tall]

And after....

Look again...before.....

[Bruce K]

You mean that's NOT Gun-Rita whatshername? :rolleyes: ;)

She is defimitely in an all-out effort and is not someone I would want to mess with.

BK

[Ginger]

And after....

Look again...before.....
You know...everyone is commenting on her arms. The before and after pics? Same grimmace, just about same arms (which I keep saying: I grew up with girls with arms that big...they were built that way and they did a lot of farm work) ...but look at her legs.

Not saying that difference couldn't be caused by time and work. But she seems to have more fat cover now than then...so for her legs to look that much different?

fortunately, it isn't my problem.

[J.Greene]

Just follow the money. I'm sure she is using everything she can to win those $20 cash premes, $50 bike shop gift certificates, and $75 winner's purses. I hear last week was very profitable, at toona she only had to share a room with 6 teammates. I have also been told that host housing is the underground of the doping world. :rolleyes:

JG

[aLexis]

Just follow the money. I'm sure she is using everything she can to win those $20 cash premes, $50 bike shop gift certificates, and $75 winner's purses. I hear last week was very profitable, at toona she only had to share a room with 6 teammates. I have also been told that host housing is the underground of the doping world. :rolleyes:

JG

That's funny stuff. LVG is a great girl and definitely has some unique body issues going on. If she's doping though, she ought to get a better doctor, b/c she is not exactly riding the peleton off her wheel, like a certain Canadian used to. My girlfriend (who works 9-5) races against Laura a lot and even manages to cross the line ahead of her now and again. She has an amazing amount of respect for Laura, and always talks about how hard she works. LVG is one of the few women in the world who is acutally making a living cycling - although many of you would not call 40k a living - and she deserves every penny.

[Bill Bove]

Thanks for keeping it real.

You too BBD, things aren't always as they appear in a photograph. I've seen pictures of me a long time ago when I weighed in at 135lbs (a very long time ago) with the extra ten the camera adds and all the muscles contorted at just the right time it almost made it look like I had some.

[steelrider]

She can work on the ladder truck with me any day!

[A.L.Breguet]

.

[Bill Bove]

She can work on the ladder truck with me any day!
So what you're saying is she can pull your hose :cool:
Sorry, one more punch on my go to sexist guy heck card.

Nice bike, Orbea Opal, round bars too... but look at how far up they're rolled. I like my drops to point at a point in space halfway between level and my rear brake.

[steelrider]

Trucks carry ladders and tools, engines cary water and hose. Now if she'd like to play with tools....

[m_moses]

Interesting thread . . . especially after reading this one (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=31158)

Compare and contrast . . . :p

[swoop]

i keep hearing about her being a cool woman. so, i'm just keeping at being jealous of that build. i know for fact dotsie bausch can shred me on bike... and i've sat on van gilder's wheel in a 30 plus crit (i think it was on the amgen campus) .... it was single file the whole time, she offers no draft and i was thankful for the last lap flat tire. my age and putting the hurt on... and still had her race to do afterwards...

this is the most ripped my arms ever looked. it had to be the lens. but.. for the record.. i'm not very good.
i had posted her pic across the hall just for a laugh and out of wonderment. i didn't expect it to become a dopage thing.... so i'm culpable in it. also, women taught me how to race. they were the ones that took the time to show me. sue sonje, kate, carla, cheryl, dotsie.. they always gave really good advice when i was a beginner and intimidated by the dudes. i think they shred.

[chrisroph]

This kind of open and defamatory speculation is an unfortunate byproduct of what is going on in cycling. LVG is a talented and hard working racer who is thankful for and joyful about her successes.

If you saw pictures of my friend el caballo you would surely say that nobody could possibly have that kind of physique naturally but you would be dead wrong.

CR out.

[Ray]

This kind of open and defamatory speculation is an unfortunate byproduct of what is going on in cycling. LVG is a talented and hard working racer who is thankful for and joyful about her successes.

If you saw pictures of my friend el caballo you would surely say that nobody could possibly have that kind of physique naturally but you would be dead wrong.

CR out.
+1.

I was one of those who contributed to the speculation over in the other neighborhood and immediately felt bad about it and had to apologize. I saw LVG race in a local crit last month and she was so clearly the class of the field that she deserves all of the accolades she gets. And, from what I've since read about her, she's a really cool woman too. Deserves none of this ****e. But, yeah, in today's atmosphere, it's hard not to speculate negatively.

-Ray

[aLexis]

Given the state of pro cycling and the size of her arms, it is seems pretty reasonable for the discussion to move toward doping. I just get sensitive because I know these girls and see them race all the time, and the world of US women's pro cycling is a world away from ProTour/Euro type stuff. Teams are already run on shoestring budgets and riders paid pretty much nothing. All of the scandal on the men's side has only hurt the women, making sponsorship $$ that much harder to come by and races harder to promote.

So next time a big race comes to a town near you, come out a little early and cheer loud for the ladies. For instance, if you live in or near Charlotte or Winston-Salem, you will have lots to cheer for this Saturday/Sunday. Step right up, see Laura's arms in person. The first person to post a picture of themself getting a bear hug from her will win a prize!!!!

[JohnS]

If high school and amateur athletes are taking PED's, why not "shoestring budget" womens' teams??? Face it, women cannot naturally build "man style" muscles. Look at several of the men's racers who were busted for doping. How many here said they couldn't be guilty because they were such "nice people"? Remember Tyler???

[toaster]

I think it's rather unfair to single out this particular woman and her appearance and then to bring up issues such as drug use.

I'll bet Ms. Van Gilder is aware of her physical image and has to deal with people's perceptions about her appearance constantly.

She isn't too skinny or too fat, she happens to be very strong and loves riding a bicycle very fast.

And, that's OK.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . given the state of the sport today. It's unfortunate that it's come to this, but the reality is that it has. Of course she has to deal with people's perceptions of her appearance, but doesn't everyone have to deal with other's perceptions of their appearance? That's just life.

BBD

[J.Greene]

If high school and amateur athletes are taking PED's, why not "shoestring budget" womens' teams??? Face it, women cannot naturally build "man style" muscles. Look at several of the men's racers who were busted for doping. How many here said they couldn't be guilty because they were such "nice people"? Remember Tyler???

you make a fair point. High School boys can dream of football, baseball and basketball riches. But a pro women is many times racing for prizes don't cover gas money and have to do it before any fans show up. That does not mean some will not dope, but your more than likely seeing fair racing due to the types of events they race. There is no glory in racing around an industrial park crit course at 9am.

JG

[Ginger]

If high school and amateur athletes are taking PED's, why not "shoestring budget" womens' teams??? Face it, women cannot naturally build "man style" muscles. Look at several of the men's racers who were busted for doping. How many here said they couldn't be guilty because they were such "nice people"? Remember Tyler???

Well...John...you're wrong.
I've been on both sides of this discussion, on either forum. Why?
Those are certainly girl muscles, except perhaps that most recent picture of her legs. I grew up with girls who out muscled the guys. They were farm girls and did manual labor every day when they were growing up. They also generally had the genes to do so. People like that don't get a lot of press in this society.

Girls can have muscles like that.

But I agree that saying that anyone knows that someone doesn't dope because that person is "nice, loving, caring, why would they because the money is small" has been used at so many different levels, those people who use it really need to find a different argument.

Even very nice people do stupid things to themselves for a lot of different reasons and very few of them have to do with money.

[Ray]

Girls can have muscles like that.

But I agree that saying that anyone knows that someone doesn't dope because that person is "nice, loving, caring, why would they because the money is small" has been used at so many different levels, those people who use it really need to find a different argument.
Right, clearly. And it's just as wrong, for the reasons you mentioned, to speculate that they DO dope just because they have strong arms. Which I did, sort of jokingly, next door. But I shouldn't have - it serves no purpose and elevates the discussion not a mm.

-Ray

[fiamme red]

But to be fair to her, the human body can look extremely distorted when caught by high speed photography at the moment of maximum exertion. I've seen plenty of photos that have come in over the AP wire of female high divers, gymnasts, and tennis players where they don't look normal at all because of the way they were moving and flexing at the split second the photograph was taken.

BBDJennifer Capriati, for example:

http://www.markus-essler.de/alt/bilder/tennis/Jennifer_Capriati_25.jpg

http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/Jennifer-Capriati-Photograph-C12145462.jpeg

[dauwhe]

Evidence of doping:

[1] Failed drug test
[2] Dog's name appears on blood bag in doctor's office in Spain
[3] Spouse's car stopped at border, car is filled with EPO, syringes, etc.
[4] Eyewitness accounts of doping
[5] Evasion of drug tests

Not evidence of doping:

[1] Appearance
[2] Ability to accelerate on climbs
[3] How 'tired' someone looks at end of race
[4] Appearance
[5] Statement by **** Pound
[6] Does well in bike racing

Dave

[aLexis]

.

But I agree that saying that anyone knows that someone doesn't dope because that person is "nice, loving, caring, why would they because the money is small" has been used at so many different levels, those people who use it really need to find a different argument.

Even very nice people do stupid things to themselves for a lot of different reasons and very few of them have to do with money.

My argument for Laura not doping is that she is not dominating the field, like GJ used to when she was busted. (see my previous post). Being nice is just a bonus.

[shinomaster]

Lady looks like a dude.

[JohnS]

Lady looks like a dude. POTM!

[SWorks4me]

That's funny stuff. LVG is a great girl and definitely has some unique body issues going on. If she's doping though, she ought to get a better doctor, b/c she is not exactly riding the peleton off her wheel, like a certain Canadian used to. My girlfriend (who works 9-5) races against Laura a lot and even manages to cross the line ahead of her now and again. She has an amazing amount of respect for Laura, and always talks about how hard she works. LVG is one of the few women in the world who is acutally making a living cycling - although many of you would not call 40k a living - and she deserves every penny.

Yes, super nice. Just very gifted in stature. Her teammate Kelly Benjamin is a local and races with us on Tuesday nights when she is town.

The camera always have distorted cyclists to me...I remember back in HS when I was reading Winning, and I would look at these guys and think they were HUGE, but when I started traveling to races and meeting them, I was shocked just how slight they were actually built. Don't get me wrong Laura is ripped, in real life as well, but catch her at the right moment and it is Hulk time.

[JohnS]

My argument for Laura not doping is that she is not dominating the field, like GJ used to when she was busted..
None of the men dopers are, either...

[jmc22]

Originally Posted by BumbleBeeDave
But to be fair to her, the human body can look extremely distorted when caught by high speed photography at the moment of maximum exertion. I've seen plenty of photos that have come in over the AP wire of female high divers, gymnasts, and tennis players where they don't look normal at all because of the way they were moving and flexing at the split second the photograph was taken.


This is from the Charlote Crit just the other day, LVG is the one on the right... Her guns would make me wish she was on my side in a street fight.

[Ti Designs]

. . . given the state of the sport today. It's unfortunate that it's come to this, but the reality is that it has. Of course she has to deal with people's perceptions of her appearance, but doesn't everyone have to deal with other's perceptions of their appearance? That's just life.


One could also argue that in order for a grown man to go out in public wearing a skin tight zebra outfit would take some form of drugs, performance enhancing or otherwise...

[3chordwonder]

Well, not that I could possibly comment on her appearance, but she looks approx. 1 million times better in that last photo.

[GregL]

This kind of "photographic analysis," for want of a better term, is not terribly impressive. Many athletic women put on muscle easily. It's a shame when they have to be sensitive to the interpretation of others instead of being proud of their talents and physique.

My wife is a very talented athlete who builds muscle very quickly. She is extremely self-conscious of her musculature. When she's sure no one is looking, she will do some one-handed chin-ups (second hand holding on her other wrist). Throughout her athletic career, she has had to endure the rude comments of others (typically men whom she had defeated in sport...). She (and I) believe that any illegal performance enhancing substances (i.e. steroids) are nothing but cheating by another name. So when someone would mutter something under their breath about her strong arms, I would get very perturbed.

Several years ago at a local racquetball tourney, my wife played in the men's open division so that she could get some decent competition. One of the men she beat made the mistake of commenting that "she's on steroids" to me, not knowing I was her husband. At the time, I was about 215 lbs. of recently "retired" hockey player. The look on the guy's face was priceless when I quietly and calmly suggested he should be careful with his comments as her significant other could be standing next to him. He turned the most ghostly shade of white I have ever seen before begging for forgiveness and scurrying away.

I suggest you give LVG the benefit of the doubt. While I don't know her personally, I have seen her race at several CNY events. Those who do know her speak very highly of her.

Regards,
Greg

[Fixed]

bro how many of you cats been in a race where womwn can enter masters
I got beat in a sprint one time by a lady ..i felt bad turns out she was a former world champ on the track as a jr. she is a great rider but just dabbles at racing now she is a cat 1 though
cheers :beer:

[BumbleBeeDave]

One could also argue that in order for a grown man to go out in public wearing a skin tight zebra outfit would take some form of drugs, performance enhancing or otherwise...

My secret is out! ;)

BBD