Hinault on Armstrong and his critics ...

[jeffg]

Here's a gem from the ever diplomatic Badger:

Eurosport: Amidst the doping innuendo that is continually swirling around cycling, some have made the connection between Armstrong and the medications he was allowed to take – and may currently still be taking – because of his cancer…

Bernard Hinault: Yeah, I've heard that and here's what I have to say to that bunch of assholes: I wish you just one thing: That you have the same sickness. That you have one foot in the grave. Then you'll see how much you'll want to live. How much you'll want to do what you love and do it to it's maximum.

[sfscott]

Outstanding.

[Ozz]

Good for Hinault!

[dirtdigger88]

I knew I respected that man

Jason

[Climb01742]

can he run for president? such honesty is rare, refreshing and fun to hear. french fries for everyone!

[bulliedawg]

I now have a reason to overlook his hair.

[SBash]

Climb: You can't be honest and run for president anymore. Thats a fallacy! I wouldn't lower a honest man to those standards.

SB

[shaq-d]

hinault has said that to others too. notably, outside magazine, july 2004, the tour de france issue, p.86. i was surprised by the force of what he said. but it doesn't make me gain or lose any suspicion of lance armstrong, or anyone in the tour, doing doping/drugs.

sd

[Kevin]

I like a man who tells it like he sees it.

Kevin

[bcm119]

He makes his point very succinctly, but I wish he didn't have to do it by wishing cancer on others. I wouldn't wish that disease upon anyone, no matter how angry I was. I think Lance is clean too, but I'm not joining a rally started by such a mean spirited statement.

[Dekonick]

Bernards comment is less mean spirited than the attacks on the character of lance. I will always wonder how anyone in the pro circuit can stay totally clean. I dont think Lance uses any illegal drugs now; but Ill bet he is using everything else he can get his hands on... from sleeping in altitude tents to training his arse off.

If lance is using, then so is everyone in the pro peleton. I love watching them - dope or no dope. I wish - truely I wish -that drugs were not part of the sport!

Go Lance!

I will always use drugs... any that my MD prescribes me for appropriate medical conditions. :banana:

[Sandy]

To wish cancer on someone is "mean spirited" and remarkably insensitive to the devastating effect that the illness has on individuals and their families.


Sandy

[slowgoing]

It's probably not mean spirited at all from a French perspective.

[Sandy]

[slowgoing]

It's a joke, Sandy, about the arrogance and lack of tact of the French. Actually, I took his comments much more like, "let's see how you would act in a similar situation." I have friends and relatives who have died of or been severely disabled by cancer and heart attacks and strokes, etc., but I try not to judge people too harshly for making off the cuff remarks about these maladies. I don't think he is really wishing people had cancer. He's probably just less sensitive about this than others. So is that his problem or everyone elses?

[H.Frank Beshear]

in his shoes, to look through the glass darkly,to sit on a window sill in January looking at a gathering of crows wondering if the soul they come for is yours. To recover, to persvere, to live,to go to the visitation of a family friend who asked would you do it again?,yes I would, he died, I didn't and the looks on his families faces will go with me to the grave. I wasn't a world class cyclist to begin with, but I have sat in that room with those thoughts. I had the pleasure of meeting Lance in 1999 on the anniversary of my 10th year from a bone marrow transplant at the University of Nebraska Omaha for recurring lymphomas Hodgkins specific.I had chemo in 1983, radiation in 1984 , more radiation in 1985, chemo in 1988,and an autolougus stem cell transplant in 1989.I was Beta test group. I have been asked when did you think you were going to die? Never I always thought I would live dying wasn't part of the deal. I dont think that Bernard WISHED someone would get cancer I think he meant you should try to walk a mile in his shoes,ect. I have been there done that and threw the da**ed T-Shirt away. Sorry for the rant, some of you have been touched in other ways by cancer, and in many ways survivorship is the hardest of all to those of you I aplogize if I seem harsh or unfeeling, I'm not. I dont believe that Lance dopes and it hasn't a thing to do with the silly race in july. 21 years and counting in the only race that matters. Take care Frank

[Sandy]

1. None of us know whether lance Armstrong does or does not use drugs to increase his cycling abilities. I really don't care too much one way or another.

2. Slowgoing and Frank, I certainly understand quite well the excellent points that you both made.The statements made by Hinault, were made, at a bare minimum, with little thought to the depth of the tragedy that cancer often brings. I am not trying to label Hinault by a single statement that he supposdly made, but he certainly could have made the same statrement in a more caring and sensitive manner.


Sensitive Slowgoing Snail Serotta Sandy

[jeffg]

I agree with Mr. Beshear. Bernard is using hyperbole to make a point, i.e. that these callous jerks have not given a solitary thought to what Lance has gone through and that it is easy to sit in the peanut gallery and take pot shots at a man that has just been through one of the most harrowing ordeals we can be faced with, survived, and come back and spit in the face of those that canceled his contract, doubted him, and then called him a cheat when they had no more cover for their own cowardice and inadequacies. So, the hyperbolic gesture is this: If you have no empathy, if you feel cancer is an "advantage" a la doping, then perhaps you should try cancer on for yourself! If you think this is cruel or unfeeling, remember Hinault is speaking in an interview as a past (French) tour champion, not as a vodoo doctor. I swear, sometimes I feel that people need some perspective. Cancer has ravaged my family, and that is WHY I feel Hinault's comments. Not because I wish cancer on anyone, but because the lack of humanity of others makes my own blood boil and I imagine it does for all fair minded people. I would wager Hinault's comments get the public's attention. That, is a good thing in my book. Polemics have their place in this world, political correctness be damned! :argue: :argue: :argue: :argue: :argue:

[David Kirk]

I tip my hat to you Mr. Beshear. Thank you.

Dave

[Sandy]

Excellent analysis. I certainly understand Hinault's perspective, as you pointed out. Undoubtedly, others were not sensitive at all to Lance Armstrong and what he had to endure. But sensitivity shouldact in both directions, and I don't really think that "political correctness be damned" is totally justified.

I was actually only making one point about one statement from one individual. His statement was certainly done in an emotional, forceful, and effective manner, whether you liked the wording or not.

I am done now. I am old. I am quite old. I need my rest, as I am going on a ride tomorrow with some young folk, and I need all the energy that I can save.


Sandy

[H.Frank Beshear]

Sandy your kindess and wisdom endures beyond age, ride well and long. Frank

[Kevin]

Frank B,

Very touching story. I now understand why you beat me in the silent auction.

Kevin

[weisan]

Frank B,

Very touching story. I now understand why you beat me in the silent auction.

Kevin


Because HE HAS TO HAVE IT !!! ?? :D

Frank, thanks for sharing your personal experience. Golden gems that endure.

Hinault is a fairly straightforward person as I read in other's accounts of him. He expressed his emtions in a forceful manner, much like LA. A human reaction. We all do that sometimes. Nothing more, nothing less.

Sandy, your observation is a good one, the display of sensitivity is exemplary, and just as the Wonderful Counsellor would say, "Speak gently and in Love."

Praise be to God.
weisan

[William]

Though it may sound a bit harsh to many people, sometimes you need someone to cut through all the PC syrup and niceties to get to the meat of it. I believe, and others have already pointed out, that he was trying to make a point as straight forward and to the point as possible. Basically, until you have been through what Lance has, seen the other side, and thus is motivated to live life to the fullest… Then shut your innuendo talking - finger pointing - excuse making - winey asses up.

Could he have made his point in a nicer way? Sure, but it wouldn’t have had the impact that it has. Sometimes being too PC allows others to skirt around the fringes until someone calls them out.


William

[Sandy]

Excellent point that you make. I guess one can take a small hammer and bang and bang on a large nail and sooner or later get the job done, but no one would notice. Drop a 20 ton truck on the nail and presto, the job is done, and everyone will be talking about it.

You surely nailed that one!

Looking out for dropping trucks,


Seeing Sandy

[Dekonick]

Lance is a hero. He is one of my hero's. He will always be one... he does more than many realize for the cancer community. It bothers me that everyone is anti Bernard because of his comment. (I am certain he would not wish anyone to suffer the cruel reality that is cancer!) My response stands that the reporters and critics are targeting Lance because of his success - and dont care about what he means to cancer patients and survivors alike. I (like many) have had cancer touch my life and take loved ones from me -

I believe Sandi is correct - that Bernards comments are harsh; but they are in defense of a friend.

I believe Sandi is caring and thus points out the cruelty of wishing cancer on someone esle.

As far as dope - If Lance dopes, then they all probably do. I doubt he does anything illegal - and he (they) are amazing regardless!

[William]

I guess one can take a small hammer and bang and bang on a large nail and sooner or later get the job done, but no one would notice. Drop a 20 ton truck on the nail and presto, the job is done, and everyone will be talking about it.

Exactly!
Sometimes it takes that 20 ton truck to get it done.

Now Sandy, since you are such a nice person, Here are my point making homies ready to hammer home whatever point you wish to make. :)

William

[dirtdigger88]

after watching my grandmother die from cancer and my mother fight with every ounce of her soul to survive (and she did) cancer I would like to sit down with someone who thinks cancer is any kind of "advantage". I would probably have to kick their ass right then and there

Jason

[vaxn8r]

Well, you can legitimately argue that Lance neer could have won a tour if he had not had CA. First off he likely never would have lost the weight. He'd have been a really strong rider, he'd have a bunch of stage wins, maybe some classics, but never a tour win.

This is not to demean what he went through, what anyone goes through to beat CA. But it happened and he did reap tangible benefit.

How you can make the next jump to illegality, or unfair advantage....well, that simply is made by ignorant people. I don't mean that in a negative manner, just that they are ignorant about the facts of CA and chemotherapy, radiation and surgery and how those all coalesce to completely ravage your body. Taking EPO when your HCT is 12 and you're sick as hell is a far cry from those elite athletes taking it to push the 50% "limit".

[Kevan]

I'm the first to vouch that Sans is the mans, but please...

you're making my job harder trying to keep his head from swelling under his helmet. :D

Hinault did a slam-dunk is all. Is it needed to make the point? No. But the game is better for it. :cool:

[Too Tall]

Frank. Words like that only come from a man who walks the walk. If you aren't a published writer it's time to start.

William, I used to work in a coal mine where those "trucks" were used. you've never lived until one of those doods is crawling up your bumper at hwy speeds!!! Redefines road rage. The drivers would joke later about using my 3 ton explosives hauler to "fill potholes"....harrr harrr harr. Is it any wonder it's hard to make me blink?