great tour imho

[Fixed]

bro a little bit of everything... excitment everyday i enjoyed this years tour a lot .i hope you cats did too .. cheers now lets have a cold :beer:

[Grant McLean]

I'm having steak-frites to celebrate!

g

[stevep]

its an entertaining event no matter the rest of the stuff.

[Elefantino]

I got back from the ride this morning at 11, with the TT still on, and rewound the DVR so I could see the final three from the starthouse. I found it exciting, even if Phil was botching things left and right.

Popo should get major props for the job he did as a mountain goat this year.

Looking forward to the Vuelta. Contador is too young to double, but who knows. Maybe Valverde threw in the towel this month and is pointing toward September.

See? Even with all the sh*t, the sport still sucks me in.

I am weak.

[1centaur]

Agree on Phil botching - if that's a trend we're in trouble.

I agree it was an exciting Tour. Wide open is good. Getting rid of Ras, Kash and Kloden is almost worthy of an asterisk in the record book, but there were a lot of exciting stages and it was nice to see a fair number of breakaways survive.

[Nick H.]

I stopped enjoying it when Vino was caught. Until that moment it was the best Tour for years. Then I faced a few unpleasant facts. If you read this http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jul07/jul27news3 you'll see that Lemond has serious doubts about Contador. Greg is one of the very few pros I trust now. So yesterday's TT looked like a sham to me - proof of Bruyneel's expertise at doping without being caught. I won't give a damn about this sport until they clean it up. If that's 'never', so be it. Whoever Bruyneel gets to replace Disco is going to receive a letter from me congratulating them for sabotaging pro cycling.

[djg]

I stopped enjoying it when Vino was caught. Until that moment it was the best Tour for years. Then I faced a few unpleasant facts. If you read this http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jul07/jul27news3 you'll see that Lemond has serious doubts about Contador. Greg is one of the very few pros I trust now. So yesterday's TT looked like a sham to me - proof of Bruyneel's expertise at doping without being caught. I won't give a damn about this sport until they clean it up. If that's 'never', so be it. Whoever Bruyneel gets to replace Disco is going to receive a letter from me congratulating them for sabotaging pro cycling.

Apart from admiring his legacy on the bike, I trust LeMond to speak from the heart, and to say what seems right to him. I'm also quite sure that he's forgotten quite a bit more about cycling than I'll ever know. At the same time, it's hard not to notice that he's capable of jumping to conclusions and that he can be not a little prickly about his own specialness and legacy. Plainly, the scale of the doping problem in cycling doesn't mesh with "few bad apples" story and I cannot fault anybody for throwing up his or her hands in frustration. But I don't think much of finger-pointing absent first hand knowledge or -- at least in certain cases -- better evidence than GL seems to have. You say that he's one of the few pros you still trust. It seems to me that he hasn't been a pro bike racer for more than 15 years and, while I'd trust him to coach my kid, I'm not sure what to make of his public suspicions. I don't know what to think of Contador, but I'm watching again after a couple of days off and I'm inclined to take GL's suspicions about Disco as what they are -- suspicions. He allows as much.

I've been pretty low about all this at times, certainly in this tour. But, for whatever reason, I felt the drama again yesterday.

[Fixed]

bro why does everyone think lemond was clean ?
cheers :beer:

[michael white]

or because he's the one consistently pointing his finger at younger riders?

[93legendti]

bro why does everyone think lemond was clean ?
cheers :beer:

BINGO!! He's the only one who won clean? Riders doped before and after him? But he didn't? Right. Believe!!

[chakatrain]

...or perhaps even because of it all, this has been a spectacular tour, imo.

[yeehawfactor]

Fabian Wegmann has a Bart Simpson mask! He's wearing it now.

[72gmc]

Dislikes this year are obvious, but I had quite a few likes this Tour:
1. Linus Gerdemann--that desperate ride for yellow was cool
2. Horner--maybe he wasn't there quite enough for Cadel, but the guy's my age and he impressed me again
3. Gert Steegmans--lead out man deluxe? I think he's a main man soon
4. Levi and Cadel in the Pyrenees--they just rode beyond the pain
5. Fabian Cancellara in yellow--he reminded me of the Hinault era with that stage win

[rePhil]

I have had my doubts about GL when he took the "iron Injection"

[sjbraun]

With all due respect to GL, he's in a great position to cast doubt on the purity of modern riders, especially since all samples from his racing days are long gone. Greg sounds too much like someone who is jealous that he's no longer the golden boy of American cycling. Greg might be a great guy, and he was a great rider, today he comes off like an ungracious former champion. I guess I just never cared much for sour grapes. And that is what I get from GL.


Steve-Tucson

[Grant McLean]

With all due respect to GL, he's in a great position to cast doubt on the purity of modern riders, especially since all samples from his racing days are long gone. Greg sounds too much like someone who is jealous that he's no longer the golden boy of American cycling. Greg might be a great guy, and he was a great rider, today he comes off like an ungracious former champion. I guess I just never cared much for sour grapes. And that is what I get from GL.


Steve-Tucson


Oh please! Did you "get that from greg" by talking to him?
Or did you read that in an internet chat room, or think it up all by yourself?

:crap: :crap: :crap: :crap:

g

[93legendti]

With all due respect to GL, he's in a great position to cast doubt on the purity of modern riders, especially since all samples from his racing days are long gone. Greg sounds too much like someone who is jealous that he's no longer the golden boy of American cycling. Greg might be a great guy, and he was a great rider, today he comes off like an ungracious former champion. I guess I just never cared much for sour grapes. And that is what I get from GL.


Steve-Tucson
Agreed. From the special OLN ran on Greg L last year, it seemed to me he was bitter that HE was not the one who 5, 6 or 7 Tours. Maybe that's why every June/July he needs to make his attention getting negative statements. You don't see Big Mig, Delgado, LA, Roche, Moser, Gimondi, Zootemelk, Hinault, Chiapucci, Bugno, Rominger, or Merckx looking for attention everytime the TdF comes around.

[Grant McLean]

You don't see Big Mig, Delgado, LA, Roche, Moser, Gimondi, Zootemelk, Hinault, Chiapucci, Bugno, Rominger, or Merckx looking for attention everytime the TdF comes around.

Maybe the attention is there, but you haven't seen it in the USA.
All those guys you name are all over the media of their home countries.
I don't understand this attitude towards Greg.
Should he just shut up like Simeoni? is that your point?


g

[Louis]

Fixed,

I know that you're looking at the silver lining instead of the cloud, but I have to disagree with you. Overall for the reasons we all know, this tour stank.

A couple more "great tours" like this and I can guarantee that the sponsor money will be gone and big-time pro cycling dead and buried.

Louis

[Andreas]

Fixed,

I know that you're looking at the silver lining instead of the cloud, but I have to disagree with you. Overall for the reasons we all know, this tour stank.

A couple more "great tours" like this and I can guarantee that the sponsor money will be gone and big-time pro cycling dead and buried.

Louis

+1

Money might be gone already after this mess...
Even if Contador did not dope, breaking team and Dopestrong's tradition.

Some euro countries stopped broadcasting after the first doping case this year already. Sponsorship and broadcasting fees will be dramatically down after this pathetic TdF. It is the governing bodies that have failed more so than the riders.

[RPS]

bro a little bit of everything... excitment everyday i enjoyed this years tour a lot .i hope you cats did too .. cheers now lets have a cold :beer:Agreed. It's about time they got serious about turning it around. The future will be brighter for it. :beer:

[vaxn8r]

Maybe the attention is there, but you haven't seen it in the USA.
All those guys you name are all over the media of their home countries.
I don't understand this attitude towards Greg.
Should he just shut up like Simeoni? is that your point?


g
Thank you Grant.


Perspective.

[Erik.Lazdins]

bro a little bit of everything... excitment everyday i enjoyed this years tour a lot .i hope you cats did too .. cheers now lets have a cold :beer:

I enjoyed the tour a lot. I love seeing the event play out over 3 weeks. Though the doping bums me a bit, the route, the fans (provided they keep their dogs on leashes!) the daily stories all roll up into an event that is unmatched by any other sport!

Some don't like Paul and Phil - I like them.


I'll keep riding my bike and watching the tour.

[Elefantino]

bro why does everyone think lemond was clean ?
cheers :beer:
LeMond was clean, I think, to a point. There's no doubt that riders in the '80s did stuff, but its effect was probably incremental.

In 1991, the first year that the real dope started to be used (if you believe Greg), the playing field changed. The improvements were no longer incremental, but exponential. The peloton speeds jumped a lot.

Since then, it's been more exponential growth — with gene doping just around the corner.

For the record, I think LA doped until 1996. Don't think he did after. Call me naive.

[Ray]

For the record, I think LA doped until 1996. Don't think he did after. Call me naive.
You called me cynical - I feel obligated to take the challenge and call you naive.

-Ray

[Fixed]

bro the main thing is we are fans
they may have a code that we know nothing about . imho cheers :beer:

[Samster]

i like the sport enough to enjoy it in spite of itself. but some money will be bleeding out of the "industry" next year, i'd bet. i hope there's something left to watch on the tube because if it were my tv company, i'm not sure i'd carry it.

[Elefantino]

You called me cynical - I feel obligated to take the challenge and call you naive.

-Ray
Calling me naive is no challenge!

[3chordwonder]

"proof of Bruyneel's expertise at doping without being caught."

+1.

It didn't burnt my toast so much in the past when you could be almost assured that everybody in the first three GC places was on gear, but now watching believably clean riders being steamrolled by dopers is frustrating. May as well watch wrestling for all the integrity this sport has.

The scenery was beautiful as usual though. It's prettier than pro wrestling, anyway.

[chuckroast]

I respect all those who have been turned off by the shennanigans of this sport. For me though, this is the most compelling 3 weeks of television that I watch each year and this year's tour was especially so. I am engrossed, maybe even transfixed, every night. This year's tour was exciting and dramatic. Heck, I'm watching Eddy M right now, how great is that?

It will be back next year, looking forward to it.

[vaxn8r]

LeMond was clean, I think, to a point. There's no doubt that riders in the '80s did stuff, but its effect was probably incremental.

In 1991, the first year that the real dope started to be used (if you believe Greg), the playing field changed. The improvements were no longer incremental, but exponential. The peloton speeds jumped a lot.

Since then, it's been more exponential growth — with gene doping just around the corner.

For the record, I think LA doped until 1996. Don't think he did after. Call me naive.
EPO, HCG, soluable steroids all came into being in the very late 80's and early 90's. Prior to that doping was relagated to transfusions or amphetamines or fat soluable steroids, which were a pretty blunt tool.

The speeds of the peloton mirrored the bat speeds seen in MLB. Look at when average hitters started slamming them out of the park. Same time frame.

[stevep]

For the record, I think LA doped until 1996. Don't think he did after. Call me naive.

you are naive.

[Fat Robert]

effin freak show

anyway

roethke had a cool view of sex, imho

[Ray]

Calling me naive is no challenge!
I didn't say it was a BIG challenge. I don't like BIG challenges. I, for example, don't race or plan to. And I used to dope, but not to 'perform' better - just to have fun. Less challenging that way.

You're naive anyway :cool:

-Ray

[Avispa]

bro a little bit of everything... excitement everyday i enjoyed this years tour a lot .i hope you cats did too .. cheers now lets have a cold [one]...

A cold one, OK!

But I like the Giro 100 times more than I have ever liked the Tour. I don't know... Maybe those Italians know how to run a show without show stoppers?

I just wish they had the Giro on TV like to old days...

Cheers!

A.

[Avispa]

Should he just shut up like Simeoni? is that your point?

One little observation: Simeoni just didn't shut up, he was silenced!!!

A.

[Climb01742]

I respect all those who have been turned off by the shennanigans of this sport. For me though, this is the most compelling 3 weeks of television that I watch each year and this year's tour was especially so. I am engrossed, maybe even transfixed, every night. This year's tour was exciting and dramatic. Heck, I'm watching Eddy M right now, how great is that?

It will be back next year, looking forward to it.

+1
i guess this might be a classic half full/half empty situation. i see hope in this year's tour. and i enjoyed the open, surprising racing. it probably says more about me, but i'm a fan and i'm pulling for a brighter future.

[93legendti]

If "silenced" means "lost in court", yes, that is what happened:

Simeoni's complaint against Armstrong shelved
By Tim Maloney, European Editor

Italian Prosecutor Giuseppe Quattrocchi has decided to not pursue Filippo Simeoni's complaint in 2004 for intimidation and insults allegedly made by Lance Armstrong during Stage 18 of the 2004 Tour de France, from Annemasse to Lons le Saunier. Quattrocchi nixed Simeoni's case as he decided that the events were part of a sporting event and had nothing to do with public life.

Although Simeoni alleged that Armstrong threatened him, the case came down to Armstrong's word against Simeoni's and Prosecutor Quattrocchi has decided that Simeoni's allegations had insufficient credibility to proceed with.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/?id=2005/jul05/jul31news

Simeoni sued Armstrong for defamation in 2003 after an article in Le Monde, where Armstrong called him a liar with regard to his testimony in the investigation of Dr. Michele Ferrari.

In January 2006, the Paris civil court decided not to go forward with Simeoni's case, saying that the statute of limitations had already expired in the case against Armstrong and that Simeoni's lawyers had misinterpreted French law. The case was heard again in Latina, Italy on March 7, and Armstrong's lawyer, Enrico Nan, argued that Simeoni's lawsuit should be dropped "because a foreigner should not be held responsible in Italy for comments made to a French newspaper 'even if the Internet can be read anywhere,'" according to AP.

The other Simeoni vs. Armstrong case related to an incident in the 2004 Tour de France, where Armstrong personally marked Simeoni when he was trying to bridge to a breakaway, effectively dooming Simeoni's chances of staying away. Simeoni accused Armstrong of intimidating and insulting him (in relation to his testimony at the Ferrari trial), but the charges were dropped last year by a court in Lucca, Italy.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/mar06/mar08news2

[keno]

just interested, and have no dog in this fight, but you described blood transfusions as a blunt tool. Assuming Vino did just that, what am I missing here, as the tool seemed pretty sharp?

Generally, I loved the Tour from many aspects. The drugs and blood, the lies, the speculation, the drama of 31 seconds, manet upset about Levi, even the racing, make it a great show not only of athletics but of life, itself. In my view there never has been clean competition at the professional level nor will there ever be. Money, it's a gas. Not cynicism but realism. For those who believe otherwise, you're certainly more than entitled but I think you are living in a "what you don't know can't hurt you" world at the best.

BTW, with all the corruption in the sport you'd think that some enterprising participants, whether riders, mechanics, masseurs, chefs, or the like, would have a great story to tell for mucho dinero (kudos to Contador). A donde?

What would Keith Richards say?

keno

[Fixed]

just interested, and have no dog in this fight, but you described blood transfusions as a blunt tool. Assuming Vino did just that, what am I missing here, as the tool seemed pretty sharp?

Generally, I loved the Tour from many aspects. The drugs and blood, the lies, the speculation, the drama of 31 seconds, manet upset about Levi, even the racing, make it a great show not only of athletics but of life, itself. In my view there never has been clean competition at the professional level nor will there ever be. Money, it's a gas. Not cynicism but realism. For those who believe otherwise, you're certainly more than entitled but I think you are living in a "what you don't know can't hurt you" world at the best.

BTW, with all the corruption in the sport you'd think that some enterprising participants, whether riders, mechanics, masseurs, chefs, or the like, would have a great story to tell for mucho dinero (kudos to Contador). A donde?

What would Keith Richards say?

keno
cool bro +1
cheers :beer:

[Ray]

What would Keith Richards say?

What Keith Richards DID say when asked about his "drug problem" was that he'd 'never had a problem with drugs - he'd had a lot of problems with COPS though'. I think a lot of riders probably feel the same way.

-Ray

[Big Dan]

That Ferrari doc is a good guy....

[93legendti]

That Ferrari doc is a good guy....

Seems you are right:

Michele Ferrari absolved of all charges by Italian appeals court
By Tim Maloney, European Editor

In a decision earlier this week, an Italian Court of Appeal in Bologna absolved Dr. Michele Ferrari of the sporting fraud charges related to accusations by Filippo Simeoni, as well as charges of abusing his medical license to write prescriptions "because the facts do not exist" to support these charges.

Ferrari was the preparatore for many top cyclists, most notably Lance Armstrong. On October 1, 2004, Ferrari was convicted of sporting fraud and abusing his medical license to write prescriptions and sentenced by Judge Maurizio Passarini to suspend his medical license for one year and a fine of €900. One of Ferrari's main accusers was Simeoni, who Ferrari worked with from late 1996 to late 1997, claimed that Ferrari had given him erythropoietin (epo) and Andriol (synthetic testosterone). But the appeals court found that Simeoni's accusations against Ferrari had no basis in fact and threw out Passarini's judgement.
After the successful appeal, Ferrari's attorney Dario Bolognesi said, "We're satisfied with this verdict, but we are still awaiting the full text of the court's decision that will shed light on why they overturned the original decision, because we have requested that the previous decision is removed from Doctor Ferrari's record. And we may also sue for damages."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/may06/may27news

[Avispa]

That Ferrari doc is a good guy....

Seems you are right:
Michele Ferrari absolved of all charges by Italian appeals court
By Tim Maloney, European Editor

I'd guess we are starting to hijack the original post, so I will drop it with this reply!

One thing is what courts say/decide and another the reality of things, which is what I meant by Simeoni being silenced. Man, I do respect guys like Manzano!

In my book, Ferrari is just a great Doc as OJ was a good husband, oh my...

A.

[rwsaunders]

It's still an event to get excited about and share with your kids. The mountain stages continue to blow me away and make me want to head to France in 6 years for the 100th running. I think I'll bring the Missus too.

[m_moses]

It's still an event to get excited about and share with your kids.

I agree. It's a fantastic show and now I have same melancholy feeling I get every year when it's over.