New Mavic Clincher 1300 gram wheels??

[DarrenCT]

So I was having a beer at the LBS tonight and someone was saying that Mavic will soon release a clincher wheelset that is like 1300 grams.

Anyone have inside info???

[itsalldark]

I saw them today at my local bike shop----Alberto's Cycles. Very cool, with carbon spokes. I heard the Mavic rep tell the staff they would be one of 200 shops that would be getting demo sets very soon!! They are the best looking set of wheels I have ever seen. I own a pair of SL's now and a pair of 303's both tubular---I put my name in for a pair!

[Avispa]

http://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-6833227.html

Cheers!

A.

[Fixed]

not bad for $1500 imho
:beer: cheers

[Grant McLean]

I saw them wheels at the Cannondale dealer demo a couple of weeks ago.
They look cool. I had a spin on them, but the bike wasn't familar to me,
so I couldn't say how the wheels really felt.

They will look hot on the right bike... on most they'll look like crap. imho.

g

[BumbleBeeDave]

Black spokes--to match my bike. Check.

Gold nipples--to match my bike. Check.

1300 grams for the set--Check.

I think that about covers it. Where do I send the check? :D

BBD

[Grant McLean]

Gold nipples--to match my bike.


BBD

Actually, the nipples are lime green,
or chartreuse if you will...
(you don't say that everyday, do ya!)

g

[RPS]

"Obviously, from a speed point of view, these wheels are "slower" than the Ksyrium which weren't the fastest either. The spokes are guilty, they are very large and offer a big contact with the air flow. Wheels overall drag is 1.35 times higher than the Ksyrium ES, and 1.57 times the the Cosmic Carbone Ultimate."

So are they mostly about the weight savings? :confused:

[Grant McLean]

So are they mostly about the weight savings? :confused:

It's about ride quality, and high lateral stiffness.


g

[RPS]

It's about ride quality, and high lateral stiffness.


g
Grant, I didn’t get that from the article. I’ll have to do more research on this.

Referring to vertical stiffness:

“Thus, for the front wheel, the carbon spokes make the wheel harder since it is 100N/mm harder than a Ksyrium ES (from 1600N/mm to 1700N/mm).”

The rear wheel seems a little stiffer laterally than the Lightweight standard, but not the front:

“The lateral stiffness of these new R-SYS is up to 56N/mm for both front and rear wheels. As a comparizon, the Lightweight Standard are, respectively for the front and rear, 60 and 43N/mm.”


I hope some of the wheel experts will jump in and share their thoughts.

[Grant McLean]

Grant, I didn’t get that from the article. I’ll have to do more research on this.


you didn't get that from this:

"In concrete terms, what's the pros and cons of the TraComp system?

A weight save

A stiffness increase"

Those fancy charts can be enlarged.
The Lightweight wheels are the gold standard for lateral stiffness,
if the new mavic's are anywhere near those, that's a huge improvement
for mavic!

g

[RPS]

Those fancy charts can be enlarged.
gThanks Grant. The large spokes just don't work for me.

[Simon Q]

These would be good climbing wheels - stiff, light and aerodynamics don't matter as much. However, as they are apparently as aero as a brick they will be at a disadvatage to many other wheels at speed. Great innovation but I will wait until they integrate the technology into a more aero package.

[stevep]

I saw them wheels at the Cannondale dealer demo a couple of weeks ago.
They look cool. I had a spin on them, but the bike wasn't familar to me,
so I couldn't say how the wheels really felt.

They will look hot on the right bike... on most they'll look like crap. imho.

g

prince makes a bike?
hmmm.

[Grant McLean]

prince makes a bike?
hmmm.

Actually, it's "the artist formerly known as Prince",
but that wouldn't fit on the downtube....


g

[labratmatt]

I don't mean to be a Mavic hater, but I'm not that excited. Here's why:

1. If Mavic claims 1300 grams, it's probably more. Maybe an extra 50 or 75 grams?

2. In the 1300 gram range, it's not that hard to build up a more aero, easier to maintain, clincher wheelset. Something with Tune hubs, Sapim X-rays, and IRD, Open Pro, or Aerohead rims. If you wanted to go cheaper and gain a few grams, you can get American Classic hubs and less expensive spokes. Heck, you could even go with the American Classic Sprint 350 with Sapims and be under the price of the Mavics and probably weigh less.

Blah.

[Too Tall]

G., I think he's "Prince" again...go figure? Anywho, I quit paying attention to him when Morris Day stole the show.

I have a real hard time accepting these factory built wheelsets.

[Mud]

since we order high end wheelsets regularly from them. Obviously I was trying to get a demo (lotsa luck). They are a race wheel, very stiff and not for the old and slow crowd unless you are into this type of wheel.

[jeffg]

G., I think he's "Prince" again...go figure? Anywho, I quit paying attention to him when Morris Day stole the show.

I have a real hard time accepting these factory built wheelsets.

I have a set of Ks and Eurus from 2003. I like them fine and have thousands of miles on them (each set has done ventoux at least 3 times), but they inhale compared to my new handbuilts with DT rims, Hugis and CX-Rays. The handbuilts are lighter, more comfortable and feel faster downhill. The Eurus are more aero but I would trade them in a heartbeat for another set of DT handbuilts ...

[Avispa]

I saw them wheels at the Cannondale dealer demo a couple of weeks ago.
They look cool. I had a spin on them, but the bike wasn't familar to me,
so I couldn't say how the wheels really felt.

They will look hot on the right bike... on most they'll look like crap. imho.


Actually.... The wheels on the picture that Grant posted are either custom for that bike or a special job that someone other than Mavic did (like changing the rim). The final production wheels will have an all silver rim (which I don't like) and gold nipples...

Now, I wonder who would need stiffer wheels than the Ksyrium (SL, ES, etc.)

A.

[RPS]

These would be good climbing wheels - stiff, light and aerodynamics don't matter as much. However, as they are apparently as aero as a brick they will be at a disadvatage to many other wheels at speed. Great innovation but I will wait until they integrate the technology into a more aero package.The innovation seems to be that they can place spokes in compression; which requires a large diameter spoke so that it doesn't buckle under load (albeit a light compressive load). Unless someone comes up with a material that is much stiffer than carbon, I'm not sure how they can be made smaller with this technology.

Interesting design nonetheless.

[Fixed]

since we order high end wheelsets regularly from them. Obviously I was trying to get a demo (lotsa luck). They are a race wheel, very stiff and not for the old and slow crowd unless you are into this type of wheel.
bro I guess i stick to my wooden tubulars and my walker
cheers :beer:

[Grant McLean]

Actually.... The wheels on the picture that Grant posted are either custom for that bike or a special job that someone other than Mavic did (like changing the rim). The final production wheels will have an all silver rim (which I don't like) and gold nipples...

Now, I wonder who would need stiffer wheels than the Ksyrium (SL, ES, etc.)

A.

the photo shows all silver rims.
it's just the lighting that makes them look dark.

you can see a huge photo:

http://accel12.mettre-put-idata.over-blog.com/0/02/72/10/mavic-08/grandes/rsys1_paire.jpg


g

[DarrenCT]

anyone actually buy these yet?

[Jeff Weir]

Darren,
send me a check and i will personally get a set to you, next week at 2:00.

[DarrenCT]

Jeff,

I forgot to tell you.... I got my new passport. Your photo was perfecto...

Thx so much!

[SWorks4me]

In another thread...

our shop already has them in stock and a demo set. the nipples turned out to be a weird goldish green. they are by no means, an attractive wheelset. as soon as i put some miles on them, i will post.

[DarrenCT]

BTW, someone talk me out of getting these faggy new Mavic wheels. I don't need anything crazy like this....

[1centaur]

Here's how not to get them:

Even if they ride great, which in some ways they probably don't, they look terrible (silver, yellow, black, and chartreuse). When the black rimmed ones without yellow stickers (the premium version) and with a few more beta tested miles in their construction come out you'll look at these and say, "Why? Why?, Why?"

[SPOKE]

anyone actually buy these yet?

i confess, i have a set on order. shipment from Mavic sometime in september. :beer:

[vaxn8r]

Here's how not to get them:

Even if they ride great, which in some ways they probably don't, they look terrible (silver, yellow, black, and chartreuse). When the black rimmed ones without yellow stickers (the premium version) and with a few more beta tested miles in their construction come out you'll look at these and say, "Why? Why?, Why?"
I've seen them too. The spokes are huge. The nipples are lime green and are big, like the K's. The hub is silver and looks somewhat unfinished and even a bit dated. It looks like the hubs from the first gen K's. I haven't demo'd them yet.

For 1,300g wheelset I'd get Rolf Elan aero. First off, they are true 1,300g wheels and Mavic always lies about wheel weights. Not to mention the aero issue. Not to mention the price $$$.

[jerk]

carbone ultimates for going uphill and carbone pros for everything else and carbone sl's for when it's raining....i just don't see where these things fit in. they're like the anatomic hbars of wheels.

jerk

[ergott]

carbone ultimates for going uphill and carbone pros for everything else and carbone sl's for when it's raining....i just don't see where these things fit in. they're like the anatomic hbars of wheels.

jerk

+1

In the Mavic line of wheels I would never ride anything other than the Carbones in their various guises. I'd rather have a 5-year-old set of Carbones than those. On all but the most serious climbs (Mt. Washington and the like), all data shows that aero trumps light. You can discuss this all you like, but the truth is there. You can see this in the wheel choice of the pro guys. Yes, they are not always the best measure of what you should ride, but in this case the trend is there. Guys (and gals) who want to go faster go aero.

[Ti Designs]

"Obviously, from a speed point of view, these wheels are "slower" than the Ksyrium which weren't the fastest either.

I like slow wheels, that way I can keep up with them!!!

[swoop]

So I was having a beer at the LBS tonight and someone was saying that Mavic will soon release a clincher wheelset that is like 1300 grams.

Anyone have inside info???


fugly. greenish spoke nipples. looks like a wagon wheel. doesn't make sense aero wise to me. i'm sure they ride nice.. but yuk (demo'd on a friends bike).

but that doens't mean you won't love them. the fat spokes look slow to me... you know what i mean when i say that?

[ecl2k]

On all but the most serious climbs (Mt. Washington and the like), all data shows that aero trumps light. You can discuss this all you like, but the truth is there.

Do you know what the minimum rim depth/size that is required for a wheel to be considered aero? There are a lot of <40mm rims out there that claim to be aero, but it seems like they're in the grey zone of "kinda aero, kinda light" so it isn't clear what benefit you get from using them. Also, do you (or anyone else) know the approximate minimum speed required to achieve a benefit, and does that speed increase as the size of the rim decreases? If a 32mm rim only matters at >20 mph and I'm averaging 17 mph then it seems like a practical figure to be aware of.

[Simon Q]

Do you know what the minimum rim depth/size that is required for a wheel to be considered aero? There are a lot of <40mm rims out there that claim to be aero, but it seems like they're in the grey zone of "kinda aero, kinda light" so it isn't clear what benefit you get from using them. Also, do you (or anyone else) know the approximate minimum speed required to achieve a benefit, and does that speed increase as the size of the rim decreases? If a 32mm rim only matters at >20 mph and I'm averaging 17 mph then it seems like a practical figure to be aware of.

All things being equal deeper the better for most conditions but it is a combo of depth and shape. I undertsand that 303s at 43 mm are more aero (and lighter and more comfy) than Carbones which are 53 mm deep (and may be stiffer). I also understand that straight V shapes (like Lightweights) with the sharp trailling edge are an even less aero shape again but then they are lighter and stiffer than almost anything out there. Just depends what you want. One might argue it is self serving but Zipp have some good aero info re aerodynamics on their website and the link below is a good seemingly non-biased review that backs up Ergott's point about aero is king.

http://www.biketechreview.com/archive/wheel_theory.ht

[Too Tall]

You'll have to watch Purple Rain again for the million'th time G. He went back to being Prince and Morris Day is still broke :rolleyes:

[cmg]

http://www.biketechreview.com/archive/wheel_theory.ht

link didn't work, got another?

[ergott]

add an m to the end of the address.

[Fixed]

I like slow wheels, that way I can keep up with them!!!
bro you should write a book that is a great line .imho
cheers

[Simon Q]

add an m to the end of the address.

Thanks Ergott, sorry guys!

[zap]

Another dumb wheelset from Mavic.

The only wheels from Mavic worth a damn are 2nd gen to current Cosmic Carbones.

[Jason E]

+1

In the Mavic line of wheels I would never ride anything other than the Carbones in their various guises. I'd rather have a 5-year-old set of Carbones than those. On all but the most serious climbs (Mt. Washington and the like), all data shows that aero trumps light. You can discuss this all you like, but the truth is there. You can see this in the wheel choice of the pro guys. Yes, they are not always the best measure of what you should ride, but in this case the trend is there. Guys (and gals) who want to go faster go aero.

I wonder if the pro's use Aero because they are strong enough to go fast enough up hill so that it matters, whereas below a certain speed, weight becomes more important....

I know the overall answer is if yoou are going that slow, you need to ride more so that you have the strength to worry about aerodynamics again, or none of it matters anyway!

Curious, will these come in tubular?

[weatherman]

In another thread...

our shop already has them in stock and a demo set. the nipples turned out to be a weird goldish green. they are by no means, an attractive wheelset. as soon as i put some miles on them, i will post.

Believe I was the first person from your shop to ride the demo set--had them August 9-12. These went on my S-Works Roubaix SL in place of my Zipp 303s (ceramic bearings). First off, everyone is right, these are some dramatic (somewhat odd) looking wheels and I think they will either clash terribly with most frames or look great (in a few cases).

So, style points aside, lets talk about the ride since that is what is important (right?). I put approx. 80 miles on these wheels--Two rides. One with my usual riding buddy (our 30 mile training loop--approx. 1,500 feet climbing) and one 50 miler (lots of rollers--out to Spring Hill, you know where--probably about the same in terms of elevation gain).

My take--they accelerate and climb fast. To me, better than my Zipps. However, I thought the ride was rougher (my Zipps are clinchers) with the Mavics and I just didn't feel like I had the juice to keep them at speed on the flats as easily--hammering flats in the mid 20s I just couldn't get my speed up as high with the Mavics as I can with the Zipps. Not to mention maintaining it near LT. Granted, maybe it was me, the weather etc. but I was slower on the flats. I compared speed data over the same stretches of road with my Edge 305 to come to this conclusion (it wasn't just a seat of the pants feel).

Note, I even swapped my tires off the Zipps onto the Mavics so the tire was eliminated as a variable in the test.

So, cool wheels, likely you will love or hate them given the dramatic styling. They are fast, and if your usual riding involves lots of climbing (I live in Kansas) than maybe they are for you or if you are purely a weight weenie. If you are looking for a solid all-around wheel and don't live in a mountain state, likely I would look elsewhere if you want an everyday set of fast wheels.

Just my $0.02. :)

[vaxn8r]

Another dumb wheelset from Mavic.

The only wheels from Mavic worth a damn are 2nd gen to current Cosmic Carbones.
I hear that a lot, and I used to think the same thing. Now I have two sets of K's (don't ask why because they are exactly the same wheel) anyway, I think the K's are still an upper tier wheelset. They are medium weight, non aero--like 99% of wheels out there. The hubs are wonderful. The braking surface is machined and flawless. They have decent lateral strength so they handle and corner well. Downsides, not alot besides their looks...love 'em or hate 'em. But there's a lot of ugly wheels out there; Mavic doesn't have a patent on ugly. Anyway, the "rap" they get is undeserved and most likely a product of their marketing success. Everybody likes to pile on the market leader ATMO.

I still am not interested in the new Mavics, or even the ES. The ES shaves a bit of weight off the SL at a cost of durability and dollars. To me the weight savings is negligable for the amount of problems I've seen with ES's.

[BumbleBeeDave]

I currently have a set on backorder at Performance Bike at a killer price. My current K's have about 18k miles on them and have been rock solid, thus the desire for another set. But the yellow and black color scheme was also desireable, given the scheme of my bike.

But it looks like the 2008's with black/gray scheme (a la the Carbone Premium) means I'm gonna be on endless backorder and eventually get sent the new ones. Maybe better for reliability to go with something else?

BBD

[1centaur]

"My take--they accelerate and climb fast. To me, better than my Zipps. However, I thought the ride was rougher (my Zipps are clinchers) with the Mavics and I just didn't feel like I had the juice to keep them at speed on the flats as easily--hammering flats in the mid 20s I just couldn't get my speed up as high with the Mavics as I can with the Zipps. Not to mention maintaining it near LT. Granted, maybe it was me, the weather etc. but I was slower on the flats. I compared speed data over the same stretches of road with my Edge 305 to come to this conclusion (it wasn't just a seat of the pants feel).

Note, I even swapped my tires off the Zipps onto the Mavics so the tire was eliminated as a variable in the test."

Now that's a helpful review - real time went into the riding and the thinking and the reporting. Thank you.

[Moosedryvr]

Now that's a helpful review - real time went into the riding and the thinking and the reporting. Thank you.


+1. Great review. Thanks for the time and effort.

Shawn G

[rustychisel]

+ 1.

Slightly OT: but there's a point to be considered here. Not that I have anything against factory wheels (K's on my regular road bike) but I'm seriously tee'd off that wheel components are now becoming scarce items.

I've been waiting 6 weeks for a Mavic OpenPro 32h rim in silver. That's a pretty standard item in my book, but it's become unobtainium. I have a beautiful Suntour Superbe Pro hub just waiting for the build. And I can't get the rim. Sheesh... it's not like I live at the end of the world or anything…

[Gothard]

Same here. 4 weeks and waiting for a 28 Mavic open. This is ridiculous. It is like going to the bakery and being told "no flour"...

[Simon Q]

Believe I was the first person from your shop to ride the demo set--had them August 9-12. These went on my S-Works Roubaix SL in place of my Zipp 303s (ceramic bearings). First off, everyone is right, these are some dramatic (somewhat odd) looking wheels and I think they will either clash terribly with most frames or look great (in a few cases).

So, style points aside, lets talk about the ride since that is what is important (right?). I put approx. 80 miles on these wheels--Two rides. One with my usual riding buddy (our 30 mile training loop--approx. 1,500 feet climbing) and one 50 miler (lots of rollers--out to Spring Hill, you know where--probably about the same in terms of elevation gain).

My take--they accelerate and climb fast. To me, better than my Zipps. However, I thought the ride was rougher (my Zipps are clinchers) with the Mavics and I just didn't feel like I had the juice to keep them at speed on the flats as easily--hammering flats in the mid 20s I just couldn't get my speed up as high with the Mavics as I can with the Zipps. Not to mention maintaining it near LT. Granted, maybe it was me, the weather etc. but I was slower on the flats. I compared speed data over the same stretches of road with my Edge 305 to come to this conclusion (it wasn't just a seat of the pants feel).

Note, I even swapped my tires off the Zipps onto the Mavics so the tire was eliminated as a variable in the test.

So, cool wheels, likely you will love or hate them given the dramatic styling. They are fast, and if your usual riding involves lots of climbing (I live in Kansas) than maybe they are for you or if you are purely a weight weenie. If you are looking for a solid all-around wheel and don't live in a mountain state, likely I would look elsewhere if you want an everyday set of fast wheels.

Just my $0.02. :)

Did the ceramic bearings in the 303s make a difference? I am thinking of taking the plunge... Thanks

[stevep]

+ 1.

Slightly OT: but there's a point to be considered here. Not that I have anything against factory wheels (K's on my regular road bike) but I'm seriously tee'd off that wheel components are now becoming scarce items.

I've been waiting 6 weeks for a Mavic OpenPro 32h rim in silver. That's a pretty standard item in my book, but it's become unobtainium. I have a beautiful Suntour Superbe Pro hub just waiting for the build. And I can't get the rim. Sheesh... it's not like I live at the end of the world or anything…


rusty,
a note from mavic.

dear rusty,
you are at the end of the world. you should move to ohio. they have plenty of those rims there.
sincerely,
your friends at mavic.

[vaxn8r]

I currently have a set on backorder at Performance Bike at a killer price. My current K's have about 18k miles on them and have been rock solid, thus the desire for another set. But the yellow and black color scheme was also desireable, given the scheme of my bike.

But it looks like the 2008's with black/gray scheme (a la the Carbone Premium) means I'm gonna be on endless backorder and eventually get sent the new ones. Maybe better for reliability to go with something else?

BBD
Dave, from 3 buddies who use them: first broke 3 spokes, one at a time. They finally sent him a new wheel. Second had some unidentified popping sounds emanating from the wheel. Never could figure it out. Third also broke a spoke. I just don't think the reliability is there with the ES wheelset. The SL's are cheaper, apparently far more durable and not much heavier. I wonder if problems with the ES forced a different design?

[rustychisel]

rusty,
a note from mavic.

dear rusty,
you are at the end of the world. you should move to ohio. they have plenty of those rims there.
sincerely,
your friends at mavic.

:fight:

I agree with what you say and will fight for your right to say it, but for one small point. If deeds count for anything it's pretty clear I have no friends at Mavic.

[Larry]

"Obviously, from a speed point of view, these wheels are "slower" than the Ksyrium which weren't the fastest either. The spokes are guilty, they are very large and offer a big contact with the air flow. Wheels overall drag is 1.35 times higher than the Ksyrium ES, and 1.57 times the the Cosmic Carbone Ultimate."

So are they mostly about the weight savings? :confused:


Why buy a new, high-tech set if they are reported as being slower?
......at least slower on the flats?
......good climbers? Who knows?

Sounds like a take-off of Topolino tech. Carbon spokes, Fat carbon spokes.

[Nick H.]

As another poster said, I'd rather build some: Tune hubs, Sapim CX Ray spokes and Ambrosio Excellight rims would come in at a similar weight, be more aero, much cheaper, and easy to repair at any bike shop or even at the side of the road. Plus you could have the hubs in six different colours.

[Fixed]

+ 1.

Slightly OT: but there's a point to be considered here. Not that I have anything against factory wheels (K's on my regular road bike) but I'm seriously tee'd off that wheel components are now becoming scarce items.

I've been waiting 6 weeks for a Mavic OpenPro 32h rim in silver. That's a pretty standard item in my book, but it's become unobtainium. I have a beautiful Suntour Superbe Pro hub just waiting for the build. And I can't get the rim. Sheesh... it's not like I live at the end of the world or anything…
bro they don't want you to build your own wheels anymore ..they want you to buy prebuilt imho... I'd rather have what your building any day but that just me ...
cheers

[Fixed]

I putting together a set of nos 330 mavic's why don't they make a rim like that anymore .. cheers
here's the standard excuse the factory burned down ...

[stevep]

I putting together a set of nos 330 mavic's why don't they make a rim like that anymore .. cheers
here's the standard excuse the factory burned down ...

great rims in the day.
a little light for current 10 spd bikes...too much dish.
they make the best daamn riding wheels you will ever use fixed.
what length spokes you need?
i may have some 300s and 300/298..right?
3x 32 hole...small flange.
let me know...ill look.

[Fixed]

steveb thanks but i think i have everything
i'm using that hugi hub you sent me in the rear .
you are one nice bro ..imho
cheers

[RPS]

Why buy a new, high-tech set if they are reported as being slower?
......at least slower on the flats?
......good climbers? Who knows?

Sounds like a take-off of Topolino tech. Carbon spokes, Fat carbon spokes.Larry, my question was a little tongue in cheek.

Placing spokes in compression seems odd to me since it is so easy to pretension spokes so that they don’t become unloaded in tension when a lateral load is applied to the wheel. The main benefit imho is that less spoke tension may lead to a lighter rim, but that’s so far off my radar that it doesn’t register – not even a bleep.

If ride “softness” is added due to more flexible spokes (i.e. – like Topolino you mention) then lateral stiffness will suffer provided everything else is equal.

A couple of years ago I watched a large guy grab a Topolino rear wheel at Interbike and load it laterally so as to move the rim what seemed like ½-inch or more sidewards. The cool thing is that nothing broke; but showed that the spokes can stretch quite a bit under load. Lateral stiffness is a different matter.