Cleat alignment and knees...!

[RABikes2]

Like dauwhe, cleat alignment is testing me!

I've had knee problems for many years, so this isn't something new I'm working with, but they went from manageable to horrible in the past two weeks. :crap: I've been wearing a women's specific Shimano shoe since November. I've had hot foot problems for many years and there was no improvement with the shoes. I think my cleat placement might have been a little too forward because the ball of my foot (closer to toes) was developing a hard callous and my toes would get sore. My Shimano rep was at the store a few weeks ago and I asked him about the difficulty with hot foot and the discomfort at the top of the ball of my foot. He looked at my shoes on my feet and stated I was in the wrong size shoe. So I went from a size 40 Women's to a regular 41. Okay, cleat placement now? I was told to start with the cleats all the way back. I did and I've been playing in total hell since. :butt:

My knees have year's of injuries and damage, are extremely sensitive and the pain isn't always in the same places. Hey, I'm older, they've got over 100,000 miles on them, a few surgeries on the left knee, and both knees have nasty osteoarthritis especially under the knee caps. If I don't cycle and keep them moving, I'm really uncomfortable. Dealing with my knees and no cycling is worse since then I'm cranky on top of sore knees. I cycle; I deal with it. This pain now is more on the center and top on the right knee.
The left knee was doing okay, but I could feel discomfort in my pelvic region when I was pushing (I was extending too much) so, I pushed the cleat slightly (micro) forward, not as forward as on the last shoes, and now my left knee is feeling it, too. The pelvic over-extension feeling stopped though.

I am in misery. Last weekend, I did 104 miles on Saturday, with the new shoes and cleats, and it didn't feel too bad. Then during the week, after two very short rides, my right knee (especially) began aching and hurting more than usual; it started to scream. I've been icing, stretching, and working (massage) on my legs. This past Saturday, I did 110 miles. I could barely walk Saturday evening. I felt like a hammer had been taken to them. Bending, standing, walking was painful. The position when you're going to sit on a toilet seat and you're bending down to sit, that last 5-10 inches before you're there...OUCH, OUCH, OUCH! Crud, then getting back up! I had to take a pain med Saturday night (and that is a rare occurrence for me) as I was having that much difficulty blocking the pain, just laying there, to get sleep. On Sunday, I made several cleat position changes at different times during my 115 mile ride. I'm not talking "moving" the cleat, my changes are in the micro changes. My knees are that sensitive to change. After yesterday's ride, the knees were in less pain than Saturday, but still in pain and miserable. I use the BiSaddle saddle, so my position can change frequently.

Lifting my right knee was impossible Saturday night. When I'm on the bike, the pedal stroke pulling up and coming over to push, the pain is more severe with weight pushing through the stroke, but the pull isn't much better. I spin on my bike and haven't been pushing big gears; I couldn't even if I tried. Climbing ability or standing (out of saddle) is only tolerable once I get warmed back up (after a break, etc.) and I've cautiously tested them. It takes a while.

My Chiro is on RAGBRAI, so I will get adjusted as soon as he returns next week. I'm actually thinking of going back to my other, smaller shoes, because dealing with toe discomfort and hot foot (which I'm still getting) is better than dealing with this cleat adjustment stuff. When I get up in the morning (I've been sleeping with ice on the right knee), my knees are only so-so. There's a certain angle degree when bending (in walking or trying to lift my leg into a car) that almost takes my breathe away from the "discomfort". I'm not a wimp and my pain threshold is usually tolerable of discomfort, but I'm really miserable. I'm horrible at change. This just blows the big one.

I keep telling myself that this year's qualifiers and training rides have put me through the wringer for a reason. At least I'm hoping they've toughened me for PBP.

I'd appreciate any suggesions at this point. Hope you get relief from orthotics Dave.

RA

[fhernandez1960]

Ra,

The past two weeks I started developing pain in the inside of both knees and I was worried about along 300mile weekend benefit ride we just completed yesterday.

I too have bad knees. 30% cartilage on my left knee and ACL reconstuction and arthritis on both knees and blown mcl's. While looking for information, I came accross this book Andy Pruitt's Complete Medical Guide for Cyclists. A whole chapter on Knees describes the different knee issues and possible causes. One thing Dr. Pruitt mentions is try raising the seat 3mm which I did. It also discusses that too much float is actually bad for "bad knees" since the muscles are working too hard to stabilize the knee. I was riding speedplay x2's which I believe have 20 deg of float and I could see me doing a lot of inward movement of the toe when pushing up a hill off the saddle.

I switched three days before the ride to Look Keo's with a 4.5 Deg fload and Evan and Belmont Wheelworks in MA when through the RAD kit for set my cleat position to match my stroke. He brought back the seat height down after I had raised it. So the only variant this weekedn was the new pedal with little float. I finished the 300 miles without any pain.

I am not sure it will apply to you here but check out the book because it gives a good description of plausible causes depending where the pain is.

my 2 cents. It worked for me.

Good luck Francis

[dauwhe]

I think we should all set up a training camp in Colorado for the month before PBP. Andy Pruitt can fix up all our aches and pains, we can get massages every day, and do a bit of altitude training in between the massages and the gourmet meals.

Anyone care to sponsor us? : )

Dave

[Bud]

I think we should all set up a training camp in Colorado for the month before PBP. Andy Pruitt can fix up all our aches and pains, we can get massages every day, and do a bit of altitude training in between the massages and the gourmet meals.

Anyone care to sponsor us? : )

Dave

You can stay at my place as long as you pitch in for groceries. How's that for sponsorship ? ;)

[Ginger]

Ritaann,
Is there a stack height difference in the two shoes? You may have to raise/lower/move your saddle a touch to go with the new shoes...I'm sure you looked at that already.

Good luck!

[SadieKate]

Get Andy Pruitt's book, just for general reference if nothing else. All good suggestions above (including the CO trip).

My husband's hot foot came with shoes a tad too wide. A good footbed with a metatarsal bump solved it. I see people mentioning metatarsal bumps frequently as a solution.

Interestingly, I've never had hot foot with stiff soled shoes but I have always worn prescription orthotics for chronic chondromalacia, acute chondromalacia from an actual injury and then 4 ops to deal with the injury. The orthotic is only 3/4 length but does come up behind the metatarsal heads.

[SoCalSteve]

Like dauwhe, cleat alignment is testing me!

I've had knee problems for many years, so this isn't something new I'm working with, but they went from manageable to horrible in the past two weeks. :crap: I've been wearing a women's specific Shimano shoe since November. I've had hot foot problems for many years and there was no improvement with the shoes. I think my cleat placement might have been a little too forward because the ball of my foot (closer to toes) was developing a hard callous and my toes would get sore. My Shimano rep was at the store a few weeks ago and I asked him about the difficulty with hot foot and the discomfort at the top of the ball of my foot. He looked at my shoes on my feet and stated I was in the wrong size shoe. So I went from a size 40 Women's to a regular 41. Okay, cleat placement now? I was told to start with the cleats all the way back. I did and I've been playing in total hell since. :butt:

My knees have year's of injuries and damage, are extremely sensitive and the pain isn't always in the same places. Hey, I'm older, they've got over 100,000 miles on them, a few surgeries on the left knee, and both knees have nasty osteoarthritis especially under the knee caps. If I don't cycle and keep them moving, I'm really uncomfortable. Dealing with my knees and no cycling is worse since then I'm cranky on top of sore knees. I cycle; I deal with it. This pain now is more on the center and top on the right knee.
The left knee was doing okay, but I could feel discomfort in my pelvic region when I was pushing (I was extending too much) so, I pushed the cleat slightly (micro) forward, not as forward as on the last shoes, and now my left knee is feeling it, too. The pelvic over-extension feeling stopped though.

I am in misery. Last weekend, I did 104 miles on Saturday, with the new shoes and cleats, and it didn't feel too bad. Then during the week, after two very short rides, my right knee (especially) began aching and hurting more than usual; it started to scream. I've been icing, stretching, and working (massage) on my legs. This past Saturday, I did 110 miles. I could barely walk Saturday evening. I felt like a hammer had been taken to them. Bending, standing, walking was painful. The position when you're going to sit on a toilet seat and you're bending down to sit, that last 5-10 inches before you're there...OUCH, OUCH, OUCH! Crud, then getting back up! I had to take a pain med Saturday night (and that is a rare occurrence for me) as I was having that much difficulty blocking the pain, just laying there, to get sleep. On Sunday, I made several cleat position changes at different times during my 115 mile ride. I'm not talking "moving" the cleat, my changes are in the micro changes. My knees are that sensitive to change. After yesterday's ride, the knees were in less pain than Saturday, but still in pain and miserable. I use the BiSaddle saddle, so my position can change frequently.

Lifting my right knee was impossible Saturday night. When I'm on the bike, the pedal stroke pulling up and coming over to push, the pain is more severe with weight pushing through the stroke, but the pull isn't much better. I spin on my bike and haven't been pushing big gears; I couldn't even if I tried. Climbing ability or standing (out of saddle) is only tolerable once I get warmed back up (after a break, etc.) and I've cautiously tested them. It takes a while.

My Chiro is on RAGBRAI, so I will get adjusted as soon as he returns next week. I'm actually thinking of going back to my other, smaller shoes, because dealing with toe discomfort and hot foot (which I'm still getting) is better than dealing with this cleat adjustment stuff. When I get up in the morning (I've been sleeping with ice on the right knee), my knees are only so-so. There's a certain angle degree when bending (in walking or trying to lift my leg into a car) that almost takes my breathe away from the "discomfort". I'm not a wimp and my pain threshold is usually tolerable of discomfort, but I'm really miserable. I'm horrible at change. This just blows the big one.

I keep telling myself that this year's qualifiers and training rides have put me through the wringer for a reason. At least I'm hoping they've toughened me for PBP.

I'd appreciate any suggesions at this point. Hope you get relief from orthotics Dave.

RA

Ok, am I missing something here???

When you are in THAT much pain, why would you ride over a 100 miles? Does the expression: "Listen to your body" mean anything?

I bet if you went to a Doctor, they would tell you to STAY off the bike and let your body heal, rest and recover...

Sounds to me like an overuse injury and has nothing to do with cleat position, etc...Heck, you said you did over a 100 miles with no problems and a couple days later started hurting...if it were a cleat thing, you would have felt it sooner (when you were on the bike doing a 100 miles)...

Also, what ever happened to the philosophy that when you try something new (shoes, pedals, saddles, etc) that you DO NOT go for a 100 mile bike ride the first time out???

Leave the cleat position in the place where you felt it the MOST comfortable to begin with, stay off the bike, ice for 20 minutes and then use moist heat and do nothing strenuous for about a week except maybe stretch out your knees and some walking...

Just sayin'

Steve

[39cross]

I've gotta go with what Steve is saying here. After almost ruining my knees by running through pain until I almost couldn't walk, and then repeating the experience by pushing too high gears on a bike, I was in despair about them for a couple of years until I was able to build them back up again. Somehow, running multiple back-to-back 100+ mile days in pain when you're not a pro doesn't seem to make much common sense, although I cite my experience above to show I am no paragon of that uncommon commonplace.

You don't want to ruin the rest of your season being too aggressive, we want you to keep riding. If I was in your shoes...which I am not... then Steve's advice should be helpful, and others who will chime in I'm sure will have a lot more good advice.

[chrisroph]

Well, this may sound a little harsh but here goes......your foot/pedal interface is the most important connection with your bike. For many people, it needs to be just so to allow an efficient and pain free pedal stroke. It is common to spend far more time tweaking this interface than anything else. Thus, changing shoes in the middle of the season is always a difficult change to make. Changing your fore/aft cleat position is even more difficult as your body gets used to your position.

What I would do is go back to your previous set up and try to treat the pain resulting from your recent changes. It sounds like you have caused a variety of damage to your knees and your hip area. RICE is the best remedy as you know. Don't fight it. You likely need some rest.

Knee problems are difficult to deal with but my experience tells me that they can be remedied. Here is what worked for me. About 23 years ago, I had patellar tendinitis that knocked me off the bike for months at a time. In searching for a solution, I went to see a DO friend who made me some orthotics. I also bought a pair of some of the first time pedals in the country. The combination of the unique time float and the support and post of the orthotics got me to the point where I could ride a season long competitive schedule pain free. It took a while and a lot of tweaking and adjusting but it happened. Over the years, I have continued to ride without pain but my shoe type, pedal type, orthotic post, and fore/aft adjustment of the cleat need to be exact.

A couple seasons ago, I rode BTC and started on my ATACS instead of my impacts. That old tendinitis started coming back with a vengeance. On the Crested Butte rest day, I had to buy some impacts and carnacs to get me through the rest of the ride. This is after years of no pain. That is how tweaky my knees are.

Best of luck. Listen to your body, not somebody who off handedly says move your cleats all the way forward/back etc.

[SoCalSteve]

Well, this may sound a little harsh but here goes......your foot/pedal interface is the most important connection with your bike. For many people, it needs to be just so to allow an efficient and pain free pedal stroke. It is common to spend far more time tweaking this interface than anything else. Thus, changing shoes in the middle of the season is always a difficult change to make. Changing your fore/aft cleat position is even more difficult as your body gets used to your position.

What I would do is go back to your previous set up and try to treat the pain resulting from your recent changes. It sounds like you have caused a variety of damage to your knees and your hip area. RICE is the best remedy as you know. Don't fight it. You likely need some rest.

Knee problems are difficult to deal with but my experience tells me that they can be remedied. Here is what worked for me. About 23 years ago, I had patellar tendinitis that knocked me off the bike for months at a time. In searching for a solution, I went to see a DO friend who made me some orthotics. I also bought a pair of some of the first time pedals in the country. The combination of the unique time float and the support and post of the orthotics got me to the point where I could ride a season long competitive schedule pain free. It took a while and a lot of tweaking and adjusting but it happened. Over the years, I have continued to ride without pain but my shoe type, pedal type, orthotic post, and fore/aft adjustment of the cleat need to be exact.

A couple seasons ago, I rode BTC and started on my ATACS instead of my impacts. That old tendinitis started coming back with a vengeance. On the Crested Butte rest day, I had to buy some impacts and carnacs to get me through the rest of the ride. This is after years of no pain. That is how tweaky my knees are.

Best of luck. Listen to your body, not somebody who off handedly says move your cleats all the way forward/back etc.
The RICE Method:
Rest, Ice, Compression, Elevation

The RICE method often helps with many types of joint and muscle injuries. The method will ease pain and help speed recovery. The RICE method is very helpful if you use it right away after an injury.

Rest. For most injuries, rest the area until the pain decreases. For simple sore muscles, however, gentle stretching will reduce stiffness more quickly. Hold the stretch for 30 to 60 seconds, then rest and repeat five to 10 times. Do this several times a day.

Ice. Ice is the most effective treatment for reducing inflammation, pain and swelling of injured muscles, joints and connective tissues—such as tendons, ligaments, and bursas. The cold helps keep blood and fluid from building up in the injured area, reducing pain and swelling. Apply ice as soon as possible after injury, even if you are going straight to the doctor. To speed recovery and ease pain, raise the injured area and apply ice for 20 minutes (10 to 15 minutes in children) every two to three hours while awake. For best results, place crushed ice in a plastic bag and wrap with a moist towel. Use an elastic bandage to hold the pack in place. During the first 48 to 72 hours, or as long as there is any swelling, do not apply heat to an injury. Heat increases blood flow to the affected area, which makes swelling and pain worse.

Compress. Between icings, wrap the injured area with an elastic bandage to help control swelling and provide support. Begin wrapping at the farthest point away from the body and wrap toward the heart. For example, to wrap an ankle you would begin at the toes and wrap to the mid-calf. Don't sleep with the wrap on, unless told to do so by a doctor. And don't wrap too tightly! If the wrap begins to cause pain or numbness, or if toes become cool or white, remove the elastic bandage and wrap it more loosely.

Elevate. Raising the injured area above your heart will allow gravity to help reduce swelling by draining excess fluid. At night, place a pillow under the area to support and raise it.

I like to add moist heat as well...after icing...Seems to work for me.

[Bruce K]

Guys,

Without getting into RA's personal health issues, she has been a long distance/endurance athlete for more years than many of us have been riding our bikes. She has set distance over time age group records (211 miles in 12 hours at Sebring, FL) on her bike and competed in The Ironman in Hawaii.

Before that she was in the military and when she was young she was involved in other fairly athletic sports endeavors.

All of this basically means that RA has injuries and aches and pains that will never go away. She is probably a good candidate for knee replacements at some point. She rides more miles in a week than many of us in a month and is tougher on the bike than I would ever hope to be.

You all may remeber that she now rides a noseless saddle after injuries from nosed saddles forced her to have surgery and took her off her bike for a couple of months.

This latest issue is clearly shoe/cleat related and that is what she is looking for advice on. There has been lots of good advice for her so far.

The rest, ice, etc. is good advice but it is an everyday part of RA's life already. Getting off the bike is just not an option that she is willing to consider or follow.

I hope she can get together with Andy P. at Interbike and maybe make some progress with all this.

Good luck RA, we love ya.

BK

[SoCalSteve]

Guys,

Without getting into RA's personal health issues, she has been a long distance/endurance athlete for more years than many of us have been riding our bikes. She has set distance over time age group records (211 miles in 12 hours at Sebring, FL) on her bike and competed in The Ironman in Hawaii.

Before that she was in the military and when she was young she was involved in other fairly athletic sports endeavors.

All of this basically means that RA has injuries and aches and pains that will never go away. She is probably a good candidate for knee replacements at some point. She rides more miles in a week than many of us in a month and is tougher on the bike than I would ever hope to be.

You all may remeber that she now rides a noseless saddle after injuries from nosed saddles forced her to have surgery and took her off her bike for a couple of months.

This latest issue is clearly shoe/cleat related and that is what she is looking for advice on. There has been lots of good advice for her so far.

The rest, ice, etc. is good advice but it is an everyday part of RA's life already. Getting off the bike is just not an option that she is willing to consider or follow.
I hope she can get together with Andy P. at Interbike and maybe make some progress with all this.

Good luck RA, we love ya.

BK

I'm no Doctor and I dont even play one on TV, but...I have a feeling that tendonitis is at play and staying off the bike for awhile, letting her overuse issues heal AND THEN work on cleat position...

How can you possibley know if what you are doing "position wise" is helping if you are in such pain to begin with?

Just sayin'...Start from square one and eliminate.

Steve

PS: I was trained by Dr. Arnie Baker to be a cycling coach (if that means anything).

[Alan]

I think the best info on cleat placement and other related problems is on Cyclingnews.com. See link below for a start. You can correspond with them at no cost by sending an email to fitness@cyclingnews.com . I have done this a few times with good results.

Articles about cleat positioning are at:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/fitness/?id=2004/letters07-26#Cleat

I'd also suggest having someone who is knowledegeable to check out shims. This year I had shims put between my Time cleats and Sidi shoes and it has made a great difference in my riding. The shims distributed the load to my whole foot instead of the first metatarsal where the pain was concentrated. My local Serotta fitter, Kathy Krumme, did the fitting.

Alan

[RABikes2]

Ok, am I missing something here???
I guess you did miss something Steve; I didn't ask for medical advice, but for cleat alignment suggestions.

My orthopedic doctor, who is an accomplished cyclist and I can call on his cell for advice, or my next door neighbor who I sometimes cycle with and is a distance cyclist and who has been my NUCCA chiropractor for 12 years and knows my injuries, or my general doctor, who is a distance athlete, can all assist me when I ask them for their professional opinions. Even my gyn doctor is an accomplished runner and mountain biker and has an open ear any time I call him. None of them tell me to stay off my bike since they are familiar with my medical history. You gave unasked for medical advice and tried to diagnose somebody who you have never met nor talked to. I happen to make a living as a licensed massage therapist and wouldn't think of telling somebody I've never met what their problem is plus it is illegal for me to diagnose anything. I have found over the years that most people know their bodies better than anybody and if you listen to them, you can learn.

My doctors know and so do I, that no matter how long I would stay off the bike, my injuries are not going away. With my knees, the osteoarthritis would get worse as it does when I take any large amount of time off. I stopped running years ago when I knew I should because of the knee injuries. I'm not stupid and do listen to my body; I do what is appropriate for my injuries. There are those who accept the fact that their "problems" are not going to get better and learn how to deal with the physical problems they encounter. I wouldn't think of telling a client to do things this way in my practice, it is NOT for them, but we are talking about MY physical situation. I am using techniques that have worked for many years; FOR ME only. I have made a living as an LMT for 24 years and understand ICE, stretching, and other techniques and I do practice them.

That's nice that you were trained by Dr. Arnie Baker. Please remember, if you don't know a cyclist history, you shouldn't try to "coach" them. You think it was okay to be harsh and make references to my being stupid. Funny, but the best coach is a coach who understands that his athlete might not fit into the same box as 90% of the other athletes, but can adapt to the athlete who is different. I've never been in the same "box" as anybody. I've never been comfortable on my bikes, even my custom Legend, and I have logged over 100,000 miles. When others say their bike fits like a glove, I have no clue what that is like. I, and many others, deal with permanent injuries. I speak for myself only now, but it has meant more for me to learn how to work with the disabilities and thus, cycle. An example, I had surgery in 9/05 for damage and injuries from saddles and riding ill-fitted bikes for so many years. The surgeon made 3 major mistakes that left me with permanent nerve damage and constant nerve pain in the left pudendal nerve area (groin) and left underwear line from my pubic bone back to the sit-bone. The pain is there whether I cycle or not, but I made a choice not to give up my cycling. It is a part of who I am, what I am, and what I do for a living. I searched for a noseless saddle and the first one I rode for a 6,000 mile year; it about physically and mentally beat me, but I persisted. Kathy Krumme met up with a doctor at NIOSH and after interviewing me, he put me in touch with the owner of BiSaddle. I've been on the BiSaddle http://www.bycycleinc.com since mid-February and have logged over 4500 miles; this saddle has potential, even for me with constant nerve pain. I won't give up. People handle physical disabilities in different ways. I made a choice when it was apparent some of my injuries and damage were permanent. Again, the difficulties are there whether I cycle or not, so why not choose to ride and be happy because I'm riding? It's more positive, isn't it? Each athlete is different and there's no magic "one size fits all" box.

There are many research papers on the NIOSH site regarding cycling problems; visit the website sometime and if you have questions on any of the research, I'm sure Dr. Steve Schrader would be happy to answer you. Yes, Dr. Schrader and I have discussed my injuries; I consult knowledgeable doctors. http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/bike

Thank you Bruce and to the others that offered cleat advice; I did appreciate it. I've been off the bike this week and doing different types of rehab and my knees are improving daily from last week's mishaps. I made a mistake regarding cleat placement; a hard lesson learned. Dave, thanks for the reassurance. I've been training and gearing towards going to PBP for the past four years; I don't know if I can finish it or not, but I'll give it my best. That's all I can do and hopefully things will work out.

Peace,
RA

[Smiley]

RA , going to a bigger and wider toe box shoe should be a first step, next you should not have just slammed the cleat from a forward position to a rear position just that quickly. Grab the balls of your feet and mark with tape across the shoe and then use a straight edge to position the cleat across the balls properly. If you don't get what I am saying e-mail me and I will go over it with you. I have a client with hot foot that I am working with now so let me share some stuff with you about this client.
First where do you feel the pain or better said do you need to wedge your shoe as the Shimano's really lock the foot down tight. Also a wider platform pedal should be helpful , speed plays don't cut it here. Lastly we will be adding a Spenco pad in the shoe and getting rid of the shoe pad.

YOU can't just slam a cleat in a spot and NOT change the saddle position without screwing up KOP so get back to basics or risk further hurt. You should call me and we'll go over basics and BTW did you get your saddle issues fixed ?

[seanw]

ra, i am curious, going back to the initial issue you had with hotspot. are you using some type of orthotic or footbed with transverse arch support? that combined with proper fore/aft cleat placement is key to solving that problem. and the correct fore/aft position is not necessarily all the way back.
start with the cleats midline just behind the first met.
what pedal system are you using?

sean

[39cross]

Sometimes I think public posts on forums are a bit like a Rorschach inkblot test; we all see them a little differently, and interpret them according to our own experiences. We all know the adage about free advice, but on this forum I would like to think it is almost always given, however, in the spirit of attempted helpfulness, even if it is off the mark. I most sincerely hope you resolve your problem, and will be able to ride the PBP, I have a deep respect for the achievement this represents.

[Too Tall]

RA, I'm a little late to this. Christoph is right on. Making changes to your setup before a big event is not such a hot idea. At this point your training has reached the maximum volume and intensity before PBP or something approximating it anywho ;) Point is, any fit/function issues will identify themselves now. I'd encourage you to consider this the worst of it and you'll recover / taper until PBP and you're tried and true cleat setup was correct.

PBP will cause your issues to revisit, no doubt about it but you are a seasoned athlete and are prepared for it. We all deal with that during hard events right?

If in the event you feel ANY cleat placement is not working switch to traditional flat touring pedals and NO cleats. Use toe straps and cages, I am not joking. PBP is an endurance event not a criterium. You may find this your best "late in the game" solution that does no harm.

DOH! My .02 cents are all wore out cuz. Hope that helps.

[Climb01742]

RA, how are your knees tracking relative to your toptube? as you think about your cleat position fore/aft, also check whether clanting a cleat is needed.

i'd also second smiley's point about pedals with a wider base of support. i had hot spots with speedplays but since switching to shimano pedals, no hot spots and my foot feels more supported/stable.

one last thing: ride on, sister! :D

[William]

Hi Cuz! :banana:

I can't add anything here other then I wish you all the best!! You're one of my heros!! :cool:



From the crazy side of the family,
William :)

[RABikes2]

Here are a few photos of my bike that were taken a few months ago prior to a brevet. I've changed the lighting system, so the NR battery pack isn't on the top tube and I will be changing the front bag, too. A new handlebar was put on last week; I went from a 36 to a 40 Ritchey (38 mid to mid) and it helped with trap pinching. I've dealt with hand numbness in both hands, probably equal on both sides, but can be more on one side at any time. The kind of numbness that I'm unable to reach into a back pocket for food because I can't feel it in my fingers. The first ride with the new handlebar was good, but the second ride the numbness was bad again. The saddle can be adjusted in four areas when there is a hot spot, but I'm careful because it can alter my pedal stroke if I make one side (usually front) to wide. To use the teachings of a regular "fit" with the bike saddle is impossible due to I'm constantly moving around. With the BiSaddle, I do have balance, so I'm not always "falling" forward like I was on the first noseless saddle I used. Since these photos were taken, I have dropped the "nose" (front) a notch or two.

[Sandy]

I don't see any photos.


Shutterbug Sandy

[RABikes2]

I don't see any photos. Shutterbug Sandy
Sorry, never done photos before. I had them resized and I did the attachments, but when I try to post them, where do the photos go?! ugh.

[SoCalSteve]

Sometimes I think public posts on forums are a bit like a Rorschach inkblot test; we all see them a little differently, and interpret them according to our own experiences. We all know the adage about free advice, but on this forum I would like to think it is almost always given, however, in the spirit of attempted helpfulness, even if it is off the mark. I most sincerely hope you resolve your problem, and will be able to ride the PBP, I have a deep respect for the achievement this represents.

Thank you!

[Too Tall]

email to me RA I'll hep.

[RABikes2]

Thanks TT, they should be in your comcast e-mail.

[Too Tall]

Here yah go. :)

[RABikes2]

Thank you TT ;)

Here are a few photos of my bike that were taken a few months ago prior to a brevet. I've changed the lighting system, so the NR battery pack isn't on the top tube and I will be changing the front bag, too. A new handlebar was put on last week; I went from a 36 to a 40 Ritchey (38 mid to mid) and it helped with trap pinching. I've dealt with hand numbness in both hands, probably equal on both sides, but can be more on one side at any time. The kind of numbness that I'm unable to reach into a back pocket for food because I can't feel my fingers. The first ride with the new handlebar was good, but the second ride the numbness was bad again. The saddle can be adjusted when there is a hot spot, but I'm careful because it can alter my pedal stroke if I make one side (usually front) to wide. To use the teachings of a regular "fit" with the bike saddle is impossible due to I'm constantly moving around. With the BiSaddle, I do have balance, so I'm not always "falling" forward like I was on the first noseless saddle I used.

I went from a size 40 Women to 41 Men in the SH-R085. Bigger toe box and more room in the shoe. I use a Wellgo (Look) pedal with red cleats. Hot foot has been a problem since I was young and was made to wear tight marching boots in competitions as a competitive baton twirler. :D

I did have a thin shoe pad in my shoe, but again, was told to get rid of it. My knees were bothering me with my old shoes and their cleat placement. I was developing a harder calous under my toes, but didn't want to change because of the possible problems. When I got the new shoes, they were bigger and took advice regarding the placement. The rep meant well, he did, but he didn't know about my knees, etc. I realize now (too late), I should have asked for help in the shop with the placement. It has since been explained to me how I should have initially placed the new pedals (measuring).

There is no seat post left on the bike; I am all the way down, and in fact, when I try to move my saddle, it is hard because it is so tightly pushed in. This is due to the saddle brackets on the BiSaddle.

[gregclimbs]

without screwing up KOP so get back to basics


making the assumption that KOPS matters...

:D

g

[gregclimbs]

I went from a size 40 Women to 41 Men in the SH-R085. Bigger toe box and more room in the shoe.


FWIW, I have had some similar issues with hot foot.

the shimano WIDE shoes are about the widest short of the sidi megas. I couldn't get the megas to work because the rest of my foot is normal/narrow and my foot swam around in the heel cup and arch.

the r215 and r300 are the only shoes they make (I believe) that you can get in the wide (E) width.

they helped me a lot. that and playing around with inserts. it did reduce my problems but not completely eliminate them. and so this winter I will head down the full custom (simmons, lust, d2 etc).


g

[RABikes2]

Ginger - - I didn't move the saddle except for the individual pads. I'm unable to push the post down any further and if the saddle is moved up, it has to be really pulled. Realigning the saddle with the pads (4 different places for adjustments are available) and the base of the saddle, all actually different pieces is challenging (I'm improving).

I played phone tag with Dr. Pruitt earlier this year when I was looking for noseless saddle information. Thanks for your suggestion Bruce, I'll follow up on it.

Hey TT, :banana: ;) for your e-mail. I will be there to enjoy!

Steve...life is too short. Peace dear.

RA :)

[SoCalSteve]

Ginger - - I didn't move the saddle except for the individual pads. I'm unable to push the post down any further and if the saddle is moved up, it has to be really pulled. Realigning the saddle with the pads (4 different places for adjustments are available) and the base of the saddle, all actually different pieces is challenging (I'm improving).

I played phone tag with Dr. Pruitt earlier this year when I was looking for noseless saddle information. Thanks for your suggestion Bruce, I'll follow up on it.

Hey TT, :banana: ;) for your e-mail. I will be there to enjoy!

Steve...life is too short. Peace dear.

RA :)

Amen to that!

Hope it all works out for you...

Only the best,

Steve

[RABikes2]

I wouldn't be so impatient right now if the start of PBP wasn't 24 days out. There's been no riding since Sunday, the left knee feels better, but the right still has some cranky moments. Heck, if my son and I weren't going, I'd sure wouldn't be stressing about getting in more training miles. Thanks to all who sent encouragement. Positive thoughts bring positive results...! ;)
RA