sinkewitz /?

[ada@prorider.or]

sinkewitz has be caught with doping T/E ratio 24/1
sould be 4/1



so clean tour ????


what do you think?????

[stevep]

he shouldn't have drunk the bottle handed to him by the indian guy at the hotel labeled...
100% moose testosterone.

not a good career move.

[sspielman]

sinkewitz has be caught with doping T/E ratio 24/1
sould be 4/1



so clean tour ????


what do you think?????

I think that his "legal team" will be following very closely what happens to Floyd.....

[jeffg]

was it an internal T-Mobile test? If he failed a TdF test then the much vaunted T-Mobile internal testing is not worth much, is it? At least the old Eastern Block tests figure out who was going to fail for the purposes of pulling the athletes from competiton (but claiming the athlete was "injured," not doped)

Stevep: He should not have had that whisky with Floyd after the stage!

[Nick H.]

German TV has pulled the plug on the Tour.

Sinkewitz was tested on 8th June - so much for the T-Mobile testing which was supposed to pick up anomalies missed by the UCI tests.

I don't see how the sport can retain any big sponsors now. I will be amazed if the T-Mobile bosses don't walk away from cycling in disgust.

We can pray that Sinkewitz' B sample doesn't test positive. But that never happens, does it? Sinkewitz won't spend $1m like Floyd on appeals. He will be out of the sport within weeks.

Sinkewitz was revealed to be a patient of Dr Ferrari this time last year. Evidently he still is. How many of his team mates are?

[ada@prorider.or]

was it an internal T-Mobile test? !

was tested by german national cycling union


and german national tv stops broadcasting tour!!!!!!
by today due to this doping case

now you also wonder
gerdeman?

mmmm
its really bad this happens with t mobile

[jeffg]

was tested by german national cycling union


and german national tv stops broadcasting tour!!!!!!
by today due to this doping case

now you also wonder
gerdeman?

mmmm
its really bad this happens with t mobile

Telekom also sponsors Bayern Munich. If they want to cut ties with doping and cheating they should cut ties there, too. Cycling truly is the whipping boy of pro sports ...

I hope Kloeden wins and stars in Borat, the Sequel!

[Nick H.]

It's so sad. I really thought the sport had reached its low point and would bounce back.

[bostondrunk]

With all the talk of riders being asked to give back their yellow/green jerseys (Zabel, Riis, etc), WHY has no one in the press asked why no french riders have been asked to give back polka dot jersyes??? VIRENQUE?!?!?!?

Funny how you never hear anything about french riders in investigations....

[BdaGhisallo]

Funny how you never hear anything about french riders in investigations....

Come on now!! It's because all the french riders are clean!! Have you learned nothing these past few years? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[jeffg]

With all the talk of riders being asked to give back their yellow/green jerseys (Zabel, Riis, etc), WHY has no one in the press asked why no french riders have been asked to give back polka dot jersyes??? VIRENQUE?!?!?!?

Funny how you never hear anything about french riders in investigations....

for slamming Prudhomme and asking this precise question. Festina scandal, anyone? How about a certain Moreau caught up in that, no less? If he were to win it would be a vindication of clean French cycling, no? What a joke

As for ARD/ZDF (German state television) pulling out of the TdF, good riddance. The hoopla about cancelling Stuttgart and banning Zabel (I don't hear anything about banning anyone like Moreau, for instance) is just pandering and a disgrace. Schaeuble has enough problems with his "let's start a Gitmo program" and has more than enough foot in mouth at present ...

[paczki]

Cleaning up takes time when you have a lot of riders and teams who view it all as a way to get a competitive advantage. It will be a gradual process, at least until the next new untestable super-drug comes along. Watching the high mountains everyone is so even, it seems like there's less EPO surge. And how long has it been since a Columbian won? It is a sign that high-altitude training is having a positive effect when Columbians are not just being dropped by EPO users. Remember Herrera!

I feel bad for young Linus. And Mick Rogers. And others who get tarred with the doping brush because they are on the same team. Looking at Gerdemann suffer yesterday I can't see any reason to think he's on anything but pain.

The TdF has been incredibly exciting.

[paczki]

Moreau was suspended, way back. There's no sign that he and the other French riders are on the drugs, not the least because of their performance since 1997! The huge drop in performance against the elite field across the board is a pretty clear indicator. The laws in France and testing regimens are MUCH more stringent.

[J.Greene]

was it an internal T-Mobile test? If he failed a TdF test then the much vaunted T-Mobile internal testing is not worth much, is it?

T Mobile handles the blood testing but relies on the federation who they support with cash for the other testing. I think it's a positive they got the guy, but the sponsors may not think so. It will be interesting to see if the contract he signed brfore the tour to forfit a years salary if got is legally binding. I'd not be surprised if employment law in the eu is very liberal.

JG

[bpm]

Whether you believe he doped or not, does anyone else find it disturbing that once again we are hearing about a rider's doping based on his A sample result being released, which if I'm not mistaken, is clearly a violation of policy/procedure. If this guys B sample comes back clean, the rules say he didn't commit a doping violation. But, the damage is now done. Guilty or innocent, he'll never clear his name in the eyes of most.

[93legendti]

Guilty until proven innocent is the new innocent until proven guilty...

[SWorks4me]

so this may lend something to the theories of elevated testosterone levels after hard efforts...

as far as big sponsors leaving. let them. they get what they deserve for not holding the DS's directly responsible.

at the end of the day, I'm not turning pro,(cat 2 hurts enough) but i will still continue to race and the team that i manage will continue to grow. I love bicycles. always have, always will.

[ada@prorider.or]

I think it's a positive they got the guy, but the sponsors may not think so.

bob stapleton said he be fired

[mdeeds71]

Interesting that the boys on Vers are saying this test was from last year.

[rpm]

If the sample was taken on June 8, why are we just hearing about it now? How long does it take to do the test? Couldn't the results have been revealed and Sinkewitz booted well before the start of the Tour?

This is just exactly what we didn't need in the middle of a tour that has everyone excited again. It was absolutely essential to get through this tour without another revelation, either by running clean or by being really, really good at covering up the doping.

Hypocritical thought it may be, big American and German sponsors are going to walk away, as will daily TV coverage.

[Samster]

there's a good read out there called "the crooked path to victory." i got it at borders.

the point this book makes is that cycling from the very beginning was all about having athletes engage in activities that were at the outer envelope of human physical ability. and that doping has been (and probably still is) integral to the sport. so perhaps unlike baseball, football, soccer, tennis, etc., where the sport began as pastime and likely got doped up later on as the field became more focused on competition, cycling started with drugs as a means to achieve physically heroic ends. at least that's what the book suggests.

so you have a basic culture of doping that persisted much in the open until the simpson affair, at which point it became more and more of an underground activity. but the point is that doping has been a part of the culture of the sport.

culture takes a long time to change...

[tomwd3]

Pulling the plug on coverage stinks for so many reasons.
Let's see...punish the fans through no fault of thier own.
punish the team sponsor, who paid out of pocket for the out of competition test. (BTW, aren't these supposed to be secret until a B sample???)
Punish the team, who's seemingly done everthing they can to prevent cheating.
You can't follow these people every minute of every day.
Oh and lastly, punish the sport that is doing by far the most to rid itself of doping.
So, if you're a German viewer, maybe they'll fill the previously scheduled time slots with re-runs of last season's soccer matches.
No doping scandals there. :confused:

[keno]

and there are all of those lbs that won't be improving sales because of the Big Turn Off. Yes, the fans, but these shop owners have money on the table.

keno

[BdaGhisallo]

I know it is axiomatic that we treat Sinkewitz as a villain from this point on, but is there anyone else who wonders if he really did dope or is simply the victim of a bad test? I can't recall exact numbers, but this has to be the fourth or fifth non-negative for testosterone recently. If the riders are all as savvy in the doping game as we suspect, wouldn't they have concluded that the testosterone game was up long ago? Too risky - try something else?

It is a real shame all around. This sport is arguably doing more to clean up the problem of doping in sport (notice I didn't say just cycling) than any other sport, many of which are doing absolutely nothing. The team will suffer, his teammates will suffer from guilt by association and the efforts to clean up and reform the sport will take a hit from the knee jerk reaction at this news, and "guilty until proven innocent" will be further cemented as the path to go.

It's all so sad.

[Too Tall]

Guilty until proven innocent is the new innocent until proven guilty...

;) Obviously you have no experiance riding the French subway system.

[93legendti]

;) Obviously you have no experiance riding the French subway system.

I did in '75...

[saab2000]

Moreau was suspended, way back. There's no sign that he and the other French riders are on the drugs, not the least because of their performance since 1997! The huge drop in performance against the elite field across the board is a pretty clear indicator. The laws in France and testing regimens are MUCH more stringent.

Correct. Moreau admitted, served his time and is back.

[regularguy412]

Interesting that the boys on Vers are saying this test was from last year.

+1 on that info.

Seems fishy that this result is only released _NOW_ , a year later, DURING the Tour.

If the guy is 'non-negative',, then he was 'non-negatife' A YEAR AGO. Doesn't seem to me that it does much of anyone any good to release this info now.

Mike in AR

[mdeeds71]

If it is fact a year old...now I see why they are not broadcasting it. Seems they are picking and choosing when to release this type of news.

[Nick H.]

If the Versus guys said it was last year they made a mistake. Everybody else - including Reuters - says it was on June 8th this year. The story was announced by BDR, the German cycling federation.

[ada@prorider.or]

Pulling the plug on coverage stinks for so many reasons.
:


well i do not agree
they said in advance before the tour if there is another doping case they will stop coverage live

in wich they did
find it a good thing to sent a strong message to the riders
to finaly stop this,,as many riders agree that it has to stop

[mikki]

Whether you believe he doped or not, does anyone else find it disturbing that once again we are hearing about a rider's doping based on his A sample result being released, which if I'm not mistaken, is clearly a violation of policy/procedure. If this guys B sample comes back clean, the rules say he didn't commit a doping violation. But, the damage is now done. Guilty or innocent, he'll never clear his name in the eyes of most.

+1

[jeffg]

Moreau was suspended, way back. There's no sign that he and the other French riders are on the drugs, not the least because of their performance since 1997! The huge drop in performance against the elite field across the board is a pretty clear indicator. The laws in France and testing regimens are MUCH more stringent.

Both Moreau and Virenque served suspensions, that's not the point. The point is they are not being written out of the history books or demonized as dopers. If Zabel is a black sheep, so is Moreau, and Zabel admitted it without being locked up in investigatory detention (Moreau). If Zabel is being stripped of his green jersey, then what about Virenque's polka dots? Seems like a double standard to me ...

[Johnny P]

Makes me wonder about the reliability of this test. How can the T/E ratio be so off and why? Is it because of very low epitestosterone values? Labs can make mistakes too. I think that for the protection of the riders, from false positives, the A and B samples should be tested by two different, but certified labs. The risks seem too great to try and dope and why dope with testosterone? It make no sense to me. :confused:

[paczki]

You can't punish someone who's already been punished again. Zabel was never punished. It's simple as far as I can tell.

I agree all the French love for Virenque is ridiculous. Unlike Virenque, and like Millar whom there's also a lot of love for, Moreau confessed.

[BdaGhisallo]

You can't punish someone who's already been punished again. Zabel was never punished. It's simple as far as I can tell.

I don't think this is a case of double jeopardy, as you imply. Suspending a rider and taking away the titles he won whilst engaging in the activity that brought on that suspension is not double jeopardy. David Millar served two years for his doping infraction, and also lost the World Time Trial title that he won in Hamilton in 2003, when he was doing what he got suspended for. They didn't catch him at that race, which further emphasizes that point. He got banned for being caught in possession of products, then confessing to when he used them.

[gt6267a]

http://www.velonews.com/tour2007/diaries/articles/12824.0.html

Vande Velde's View: That burnin', burnin', burnin' ring of fire

... One big loser of the week and I use that term in the broad sense when it comes to him, is Patrick stinky pits (sorry, I don't know how to spell his last name).

He smashed his face after the race the other day and then found out he turned a positive test this morning. And you thought you were having a bad week?!?

Not that I feel for him in the slightest way. Frankly, if he needs any help re-breaking his nose, I know a lot of people who would love to give him a hand.

[Avispa]

Both Moreau and Virenque served suspensions, that's not the point. The point is they are not being written out of the history books or demonized as dopers. If Zabel is a black sheep, so is Moreau, and Zabel admitted it without being locked up in investigatory detention (Moreau). If Zabel is being stripped of his green jersey, then what about Virenque's polka dots? Seems like a double standard to me ...

Jeff,

I wonder, if you became president in 2008. Would you go after Bush, Clinton, Tenet, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Powel, etc.?

Or you just let it go, move on and start an new presidency that would aim for a better country and better choices?

I think the so called "black sheeps" ASKED for it.... Let's not make martyrs out of Devils, please! They were the ones that came crying about their past actions. What do you think Tour organizers and many former sponsors do, if tomorrow Lance admitted he doped? The guy would get crucified! (except by his yellow band followers, of course).

They are not going after riders that have kept quiet (the French ones included) because they are letting it be as it was and are accepting the things as they are now (publicly, at least).

A.

[toaster]

Since when did testosterone become the cyclist's drug of choice?

The performance benefits have yet to be proven for endurance athletes and the recovery benefit appears to be anecdotal at best.

Or, is this more of the same bad testing based on T/E ratios and false positives backed by the same lab delivering the same result on the B sample?

Personally, I am very suspicious of the testosterone accusations being perpetrated by the UCI and WADA against riders in the press that are used for scandal and to incite outrage.

[jeffg]

Jeff,

I wonder, if you became president in 2008. Would you go after Bush, Clinton, Tenet, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Powel, etc.?

Or you just let it go, move on and start an new presidency that would aim for a better country and better choices?

I think the so called "black sheeps" ASKED for it.... Let's not make martyrs out of Devils, please! They were the ones that came crying about their past actions. What do you think Tour organizers and many former sponsors do, if tomorrow Lance admitted he doped? The guy would get crucified! (except by his yellow band followers, of course).

They are not going after riders that have kept quiet (the French ones included) because they are letting it be as it was and are accepting the things as they are now (publicly, at least).

A.

I do not think the comparison to politics is apposite here.

My point is that ASO began stripping folks of jerseys when it was a matter of non-French riders. How does it look if Riis is stripped of yellow and Virenque keeps the polka dot jersey in the 1996 tour? Does Ullrich become the winner? Does Virenque, who was third? Once you start re-writing history on a selective basis you begin to see the issues. That is all I am saying.

[Avispa]

I do not think the comparison to politics is apposite here.

My point is that ASO began stripping folks of jerseys when it was a matter of non-French riders. How does it look if Riis is stripped of yellow and Virenque keeps the polka dot jersey in the 1996 tour? Does Ullrich become the winner? Does Virenque, who was third? Once you start re-writing history on a selective basis you begin to see the issues. That is all I am saying.

I am just using politics as an example of someone that has done wrong in the past...

What I am saying is that IF Virenque and others would confess they used dope during a specific time; they would probably be going through the same Riis, etc. are now facing. Virenque (and Moreau and others) got caught and served their suspensions, then moved on. Riis and others have just decided to confess now [when Prud is the boss], then the axe!!! I do not think this has anything to do with non-French riders... IMO.

[93legendti]

I am just using politics as an example of someone that has done wrong in the past...

What I am saying is that IF Virenque and others would confess they used dope during a specific time; they would probably be going through the same Riis, etc. are now facing. Virenque (and Moreau and others) got caught and served their suspensions, then moved on. Riis and others just decided to confess... I do not think this has anything to do with non-French riders... IMO.


Virenque did confess that he used peds during the '98 TdF:

http://espn.go.com/moresports/news/2000/1024/835679.html

[BarryG]

You can't punish someone who's already been punished again.
Sure looks like Tyler's going through the wringer again for what was possibly the same blood doping involvement.

[Avispa]

Virenque did confess that he used peds during the '98 TdF:

http://espn.go.com/moresports/news/2000/1024/835679.html

Bro,

Thanks for digging the facts, but when did Virenque admitted?

I think the issues JeffG (Jeff, please correct me if I am wrong) and I are talking about are current events with Prudhomme at the helm; not something that happened 7 years ago! Which has always been my point!

All these recent confessions and busts... As I have said, Prudhomme is acting on stuff that has happened while he is the boss (or on his way as he was in the '06 Tour), not the day or month or year before!

Cheers!

A. ;)

[BdaGhisallo]

From Cyclingnews.com today:

"The German television sender ZDF said that there may be procedural problems with Sinkewitz' test. ZDF revealed that it had information that the control sheet for the test indicated that the room where the sample was taken was open to the public.

Sylvia Schenk, former president of the German cycling federation, the Bund Deutscher Radfahrer (BDR), has called it "a formal error, at most. But right now there is a lot of indications [that we have a doping case].""

Yep, just as I suspected. Another athlete is going to get shafted by unscrupulous enforcement authorities. Why is it that when an athlete commits the slightest infringement, or merely doesn't follow some procedure, like the current hullabaloo with Rasmussen and his whereabouts not being know by the Danish Federation, they are to be crucified? But when the authorities charged with enforcing the rules commit an infringement, or don't follow their own procedures, it is simply discarded as an immaterial distraction?

Sure, they didn't do the test properly, but they know in their hearts that he's guilty, so what does it matter?

F*cking outrageous!!!!!

[paczki]

I agree that the presumption of guilt is really unfair in these cases. Its totally unfair that the riders suffer and the team owners and managers rarely do to the dame degree. With Puerto and Festina it's not an individual test though, although with Puerto all the leaking of information was atrocious -- Valverde was involved then not for example.

With Tyler Hamilton you may be right and he's being double-punished, although I can't remember the details. Wasn't the Olympics involved which is a different testing organization. I've gotta say after he mounted the twin defense I had no pity.

I do think riders like Moreau who confess when caught should then be treated with dignity after they serve their suspensions. Virinque did not confess at the time, if I remember correctly, even though he was caught in flagrente delicto. Their responses were totally different.

[Avispa]

can you guys hear the thunder around Rasmussen's name?

I am afraid he will get busted soon!