Ore needed to make a Ti bike?

[pneumoped]

One of my friends tried to make me feel guilty after buying my Legend Ti by saying that it took "tons" of ore just to get enough Titanium for my bike. I've scoured the web trying to find information on how much ore it takes to produce say a pound or kg of Ti. Although I can now talk scientifically about Titanium, I was unable to find what I was looking for. Can anyone help?

I know that there are two kinds of ore within which Ti is found: Rutile (TiO2) is less abundant with a higher percentage of Titanium in it, and Ilmenite (FeTiO3) with a lot of iron in it. So, I suppose that it would depend on which ore produced the Ti in my bike. Logically, using Ilmenite would take a lot more ore per kg of Ti than Rutile would.

Anyone?

Thanks,
Chris

[ericmurphy]

I hope your guilt-tripping friend doesn't drive a car. :-)

I remember reading somewhere that titanium is one of the most abundant constituents of the earth's crust, but that it is difficult to refine from raw ore. Like aluminum, it requires huge quantities of electricity. So it seems unlikely that it would take a lot of ore to produce a given amount of titanium as opposed to, say magnesium.

I look at it this way: once a bicycle is manufactured, it mostly stops polluting. Yes, tires are difficult to dispose of, and chains, cassettes, rims, etc., do eventually wear out. But the amount of, say, lubricant a bike uses over its lifetime is negligible, and it certainly doesn't burn any hydrocarbons for fuel. Obviously, a 3,000-pound car (or 5,000-pound SUV) places much more stress on the environment than a 17-pound bike. Moreover, an auto engine produces 14 pounds of carbon dioxide for every gallon of fuel it burns. I know I exhale a certain amount of CO2 while I'm riding, but I doubt it's more than a pound or two over a 100-mile ride.

[Pastashop]

A write-up by Scot Nicol, who was head of Ibis awhile back, and is very knowledgeable:

http://www2.sjsu.edu/orgs/asmtms/artcle/articl.htm

There's also a nice write-up in one of the old Bridgestone catalogs about the making of various alloys used in bicycle frames. You can read it here:

http://www.scsr.nevada.edu/~wilhite/bstone1994cat.pdf

The primer on Titanium is on page 60

[davids]

The Technical Supplement to Seven's catalog has an excellent discussion of materials technology, especially around Ti. Check out their website to request a catalog: Seven Cycles (http://www.sevencycles.com/index.html).

[PaulE]

and if he knows how many tons of Ti, literally, are in a 747 or other commercial jetliner. :D

[bfd]

The following is from Gary Helfrich, one of the founders of Merlin Metalworks:

As one of those responsible for the titanium rush, perhaps I can shed some
light on where the titanium used in bikes comes from.

Most of the titanium used in bikes comes from Australia. Yup, the deserts
of western Australia are the source for most of the titanium ore used in the
world today. Titanium ore is an abundant resource (titanium is the fifth
most abundant metallic element on our planet), and white sand is the best
place to find it.

Most of this material never is never processed into metal. Over 90% is
refined into titanium dioxide, a common white pigment used in paint.

The most common destination for the sand used in making metallic titanium is
China. The Chinese produce a very high quality titanium sponge that is used
worldwide to produce primary mill products all over the world. The United
States, France, Russia, and Ukraine all produce sponge as well. Most US
producers of primary mill products use a significant amount of Chinese
produced titanium sponge.

In most cases, virgin material is mixed 1:4 with scrap material making
titanium one of the most recycled metals. This is where the Russian or
Ukraine material comes in. Most scrap from the former Soviet states is
contaminated, and cannot be used to produce ingot for tube production.
Material with high levels of chemical contamination can be used for low
quality castings, and finds its' way into golf club head, valve bodies, etc.

About the only titanium tube that you will find that contains significant
amounts of Russian material is tube from Russia. There is not a great
economic advantage in using poor quality scrap from Russia, when high
grade domestic scrap is available in the United States.

Litespeed uses material from Ancotech and Haynes International. The sponge
used to produce the raw material for these tubes is from either China or
Henderson (Nevada) depending on the price. Orement/Wah Chang or Timet
produce 100% of all the starting billets used by the big three companies in
the United States (Ancotech, Haynes International, and Sandvik Special
Metals).

Oremet (Albany Oregon) has broken and recycled an entire pressure hull from
an Alpha attack sub. None of the material was used to produce ingot for
tube production, but this may be a source for much of the Urban Mythology
surrounding bikes made from radioactive Russian titanium. Most of the
recovered material became golf driver heads.

Gary Helfrich
Arctos Machine

[csb]

yes it is

[ericmurphy]

aluminum is the devil

yes it is

Gives you Alzheimer's if you cook in it.

[MadRocketSci]

I know I exhale a certain amount of CO2 while I'm riding, but I doubt it's more than a pound or two over a 100-mile ride.

That used to be an argument people liked to pull in my greenie days. There's a difference in the CO2 you produce on a bike ride (or just sitting on the can) vs. the car. Assuming you don't eat petroleum products, the CO2 you exhale came from agricultural products which utilize existing atmospheric C02. The car burning fossil fuel turns carbon stored in the ground into more CO2 for the atmosphere.

just thought i'd assuage your guilt further :)

[Speedi Pig]

Velonews had an excellent artcile on Ti bikes late last year or early this year. Two things of note from the article: Titanium is the 5th most common element in the world. Also, Titanium dioxide is one of the whitest substances available. It is used to color the "m&m" on a popular candy so no chocolate for you if you're trying to conserve titanium.

[ericmurphy]

That used to be an argument people liked to pull in my greenie days. There's a difference in the CO2 you produce on a bike ride (or just sitting on the can) vs. the car. Assuming you don't eat petroleum products, the CO2 you exhale came from agricultural products which utilize existing atmospheric C02. The car burning fossil fuel turns carbon stored in the ground into more CO2 for the atmosphere.

just thought i'd assuage your guilt further :)

I was thinking about this when I was doing my post, but I was running out of time, and figured someone would eventually address it anyway. Et Voila!

[ericmurphy]

Two things of note from the article: Titanium is the 5th most common element in the world.

Not to split hairs (but I'm going to go ahead and do it anyway), but titanium is the fifth most common metallic element in the earth's crust.

But I think we're still kind of entitled to call it the "Fifth Element," aren't we? At least, those of us who are Luc Besson fans.

Hey, it's poetic license.

[pneumoped]

I hope your guilt-tripping friend doesn't drive a car. :-)

Good point. I'll reshape my rebuttal arguments and come at her from a different perspective.

Besides, not only do I ride my Ti Serotta for training rides, but I also ride it to work about twice a week which keeps me out of my car and reduces pollution.

Thanks,
Chris

[Bobbo]

Your friend is an idiot. Tell her to take a long walk off a short pier.
:bike: