Persitent Hotfoot problems-Big Toes

[Randonneur]

Over the past few years I have been plagued with persistent hot foot problems. The problem involves my big toes on both feet. I get a burning sensation that starts out in the tip of the toe and progressively works its way back until the whole toe is affected. The problem typically starts around 70-80 miles into a ride and flairs up quite frequently for the duration of a ride. The pain gets so bad that I find myself getting off the bike quite often just to cool my feet so I can continue riding.

At first I thought it was my shoes, so I purchased a pair of SIDI Geniuses last year. The problem continued, so this year I decided to purchase a new pair of clips-Shimano Dur Ace and change out my socks to Cool Max brands. I thought having a bigger toe base to support my foot and improving the ventilation in my toe box area might help with the problem. The problem still persisted. After looking at the problem more closely, I noticed that my toes were closer than they should be to the tip of the shoe. In addition, the seams in the toe box area were hitting my big toes. Most recently, I purchased a pair of SIDI Genius Mega's and went up one size in my shoe. I also added an Orthotic insert because the shoe was a little too big with the standard insert. This weekend will be my true test if this fixes the problem. I’m riding a 600K event and I’m a little concerned about the problem flaring up again.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to resolve this problem? I was going to purchase a pair of Carnac’s but the importer said they are at the end of their season and do not expect any more shipments for a few months.

Thanks,
Tom

[dave thompson]

Often the 'hotfoot' problem isn't due to the shoes, but to inflamed or damaged nerves in the foot. Morton's Nueroma (http://www.podiatrychannel.com/mortonneuroma/)is an example. As you get older your feet have a tendency to spread out as the muscles and tendons loose their elasticity. Have you seen a Podiatrist?

[Too Tall]

"R" guy, Congrats in advance on your brevets so far. At this point making any big changes to your pedals, cleats etc. right before a big event is a bad idea. Thin socks, loose shoes and such are good. What I'd suggest is to add a mild pain med. Try "Eccotrin".

Once the damage was done I was never able to solve my Morton's neuroma and eventually went with custom shoes by Bart Sheldrake "LUST". Bart made the shoes roomy and with a perfect mold of my foot...not an idealized version. The effect was to create a total support bed and hot foot is a thing of the past.

This yr. I've quit all that silly (kidding!) long distance riding and am racing USCF. Guess what? My feet have healed and can now use all my old shoes.

Good luck and safe roads on your 600. Report back!

[Climb01742]

too tall, what did you think of your LUSTS? (man, is that a set up line or what?) where did you get them fitted? if i may ask, what did they cost? thanks.

[quattro]

Randonneur, I have had Morton's Nueroma for over two years now in my left foot. I also switched to Sidi Mega's and use a full length custom orthodic in mine. In addition, I use a metatarsal pad on my orthodic. The pad has self adhesive on the back, once you find the spot it needs to be placed under your foot you can tape it to your insole. The pad should sit behind the metatrsal bones, it will raise the bones and take and pressure off of the nerve that passes between them. This has pretty much taken care of the burning and numbness I would get while on long rides. I wear the same orthodic and pad in all of my shoes. If you haven't seen a foot doctor that should probably be your first stop, find one that is sport related. Good luck.

[Marron]

I wonder if problems with the big toe are the result of a Morton's Nueroma or possibly something else? You could try the pads which provided relief for my numbness and hot foot sensation, but I understand the problem to be associated with the outside/center of the foot, not the interior. The other change that may help is the use of Smart Wool socks. They seem to provide more cushioning and ventilation over long rides than any others I've tried.

The one last observation I would make is that the use of looser shoes can only help so much. At some point I've found that you begin cinching them up tighter than you might otherwise to avoid slipping inside the shoe.

[shaq-d]

just to re-emphasize the loose shoe thing..have u tried biking with the laces untied or tied very very loosely? i hardly tie mine at all and it helps a lot, and i don't feel any degradation in power/etc.

sd

[quattro]

...I have given up wearing any type of sock now for over two years. Even the thinest sock made my cycling experience uncomfortable. My Sidi Mega's do not have laces, two velcro straps and one rachet strap. I keep the two velcro straps about as lose as possible, and rachet the top strap to a comfortable tighness, but the Sidi's are a very comfortable fit with my custom orthodic, I am very happy with my present set-up. BTW- I wear the Sidi Dominator 4 mountain bike show with Speedplay Frogs.

[Too Tall]

*I am not hyjackin' this thread!!!! Climbd%$d, People giggle all the time about the LUST logo, it's OK. The shoes are beyond good. Bart is an artist. I was fitted by an ortho appliance fitter in Boulder, CO. You need to get with one of his approved fitters or no shoes. I've ridden across the USA 3 times in these shoes and PBP twice in these shoes....no mo hot foot! That said, they are not made for USCF racing. I have a very different pair that are outstanding for USCF stuff...but they kill my feet on long training rides.

[MadRocketSci]

then saw this thread...what a coinky-dink!

His name is Dr. Saxena (at the Palo Alto Clinic) and he seems pretty accomplished from his website. However, most of his experience seems to be with runners. Anyway, my problems are with numb toes, even on shorter rides of 30-40 miles, especially if there's a lot of descending. Seems having that outside leg extended while taking a curve puts a lot of pressure on my feet.

Dr. Saxena knew a lot of the lingo for pedals and shoes, and does cycle, so I think he knows what he's talking about. For my case of the numb toes, he suggested:

1) get shoe stretched at a cobbler...my feet are wide in front and narrow in the heel.
2) move cleat back. I use Time Impacts, and he said it might not be the most biomechanically efficient thing, but he always recommends starting back and moving it up slowly.
3) if 1 and 2 don't do it, try Look pedals and cleats. He thought the brass cleat for the Time Impacts might have something to do with it. Apparently Look is mostly plastic (I've never used them...are Shimano pedals similar?)

He mentioned not liking Speedplays for numb toes, and said that there was some study done that showed that carbon fiber soles put more pressure on the ball of the foot. He recommends nylon soles. My particular problem is not lack of circulation, which is what I thought, but nerves being compressed. He had a resident examine me who said that i might have some of that Morton's Neuroma. But, he also didn't seem particularly concerned.

If 1 and 2 don't help, I think I'll also try the Metatarsal pads. Quattro, and anyone else, what brand of metatarsal pad do you use? Spenco? I'm wondering if there's a particular kind that works well in cycling shoes. Metatarsal pads are a recommendation of Curtis Cramblett, a bike fitter/coach with a background in physical therapy.

Hope this info is useful to someone,
MadRocketSci

[Too Tall]

M.R.S. - A good fitting shoe trumps just about everything and a stiff sole makes pedal choice nearly irrelevant....if you get my drift. If you have numb toes, it is highly likely your metatarsals are squeezed (from the sides) and you need a wider toe box. If you have an old old crapped out set of shoe try cutting out the toe box completely...everything north of the front strap and see how that is. Report back!

[William]

Speaking of custom cycling shoes, has anyone tried Lamson's? I have heard good things about them. I was looking into them a number of years ago when I was having trouble finding shoes for my size 15 canoes. I ended finding some Sidi's that fit well and decided not to go the custom route. I have stuck with Sidi's but I'm starting to get a little numbness in my toes/ball of my foot when I've been out for a while. I suspect it came from wearing a pair of work shoes much longer that I should have on concrete floors. I may have damaged a nerve and I know I should go and get it looked at.

Anyway, the custom route is starting to look appealing again. Though I may try some of the orthotics suggested first.

William

[Randonneur]

Quattro,

I read the weblink on Morton's Neuroma provided by another member and I'm not sure if there are variants to this problem. The article says the problem occurs between the third and fourth toes. Does anyone know if this has an indirect effect on the big toe area or if there is a variant of this problem that would affect the big toe?

I'm riding my 600K brevet this weekend and I'm curious to see if the new shoes and orthotic inserts will fix my problem. If not, I will definitely be visiting a podiatrist this summer. My goal is to ride BMB next year, plus a 1000K and PBP in 2007. I would hate to miss out on these events if my problem is easily fixed.

Thanks,
Tom

[D2shoe]

The symptoms you are describing do not indicate Morton's neuroma. It sounds more like you need a shoe that has more of a curved last. Most cycling shoes are straight lasted. A curved lasted shoe will allow your big toe to curve towards the center line of your body more. Thus taking the pressure off the toe. Give me a call if you want to discuss this further.

[William]

QUOTE]A curved lasted shoe will allow your big toe to curve towards the center line of your body more. Thus taking the pressure off the toe.[/QUOTE]

Are you saying this would be a better option for a person who tends to "toe in" a bit when pedaling? One of the reasons I switched to Speedplay pedals was just that. I tend to toe in a little and wanted the freedom of movement.


William

[D2shoe]

Yes that can be part of the problem. I was refering to the shape of your foot. WHen you stand bare foot, do your big toes curve inward?
Like my hoof?!

[William]

No, my foot appears straight, but the toes splay slightly outward. That may account for my slightly "toed in" position. That would more or less have my toes pointing straight ahead.
When it gets inflamed it feels like there is a knot on the bottom center of the ball of my foot and the base of my second and third toes get very painful to the touch. The numbness I only seem to get when I've been riding for a while.

I bought a pair of good LOWA hikers that have good support and seem to help things settle down if I only wear them for a few days... :confused:

William