WI Eno questions...

[SoCalSteve]

Hi all,

I'm in the process of setting up my first fixed gear bike.

I am having difficulty getting the Eno hub to work with my CSI, Ultegra brakes, and Michelin Pro Race2 700 x 25's.

When the hub is completely in the drop outs, the tire rubs against the brake caliper. Even when I play with the eccentric part, I cannot get the hub completely in the drop outs and have 1.) good chain tension, 2.) the tire not hitting the brake and 3.) if I get the tire to NOT hit the brake then the brake calipers are too high and hit the tires, not the braking surface of the rim...

OK, I guess the real question is: Does the Eno hub have to be completely in the drop outs? If it doesnt, then I am good to go. Or, maybe the question should be: Does the Eno work with 700 x 25 tires and regular reach brakes? Or, the real question is: HELP! Am I doing something wrong???

Anyway, hope this makes sense as I am a little frustrated and confused.

As always, thank you all in advance for your assistance,

Steve

PS: I may even have to go to my LBS and see if I have done something wrong or just not the way I'm supposed to (G@d forbid)!....LOL

[markie]

If you have socket style dropouts you want the hub all the way in. If you have horizontal dropouts you do not need an eccentric hub.....

You can try rotating the wheel on the hub both forward and backward to get chain tension. This might help. Otherwise double check you cannot remove another link from the chain. Have you checked with a regular, non eccentric, hubbed wheel that the 25s will fit?

[markie]

Oh and rear brakes are pretty useless on fixies. You only need it if you plan on SS'ing. Which IMO is pretty boring on the road.Then I do not live in CO.

[mjb266]

Hate to say it but it sounds like yours may be out of dish. I've got one and it runs fine. Try setting it up in the DO's without any chain tension and see if it still pulls to the one side. If you have horizontal drops then it does not need to sit the whole way back...if it's the verticals you don't want to run it cockeyed as it could misallign your dropouts.

[mjb266]

holy cow...three replies in two minutes

[markie]

5 now....

[justinf]

Steve-
When you say the brake caliper, do you mean the bottom center or one of the arms? If it is indeed off center, you have problems.

I understood you to mean the bottom center of the brake body, in which case you should experiment with a longer/shorter chain so that the eccentric hub pulls away from the brake body and into the desired range, while maintaining tension. Make sense?

[SoCalSteve]

If you have socket style dropouts you want the hub all the way in. If you have horizontal dropouts you do not need an eccentric hub.....

You can try rotating the wheel on the hub both forward and backward to get chain tension. This might help. Otherwise double check you cannot remove another link from the chain. Have you checked with a regular, non eccentric, hubbed wheel that the 25s will fit?

Socket style

I have an eccentric hub because it is a road bike (socket style).

I have tried rotating it until I started bleeding...One way, no chain tension, the other way brake pads hit the tires, not the rim braking surface...third way (third way)??? anyway, I cannot get the hub all the way in the drop outs and still have chain tension, the tire not hitting the center of the brake or the pads not hitting the braking surface..

Its a CSI, it accepts 700 x 25 tires no problem.

[SoCalSteve]

Oh and rear brakes are pretty useless on fixies. You only need it if you plan on SS'ing. Which IMO is pretty boring on the road.Then I do not live in CO.

Tell this to someone who is 6' 5" and weighs 250 and rides on the streets of Los Angeles.

Wouldnt you want a rear brake?

Who lives in CO?

[SoCalSteve]

Hate to say it but it sounds like yours may be out of dish. I've got one and it runs fine. Try setting it up in the DO's without any chain tension and see if it still pulls to the one side. If you have horizontal drops then it does not need to sit the whole way back...if it's the verticals you don't want to run it cockeyed as it could misallign your dropouts.

Its not out of dish, its not pulling to one side, its hitting the top center of the brake caliper.

Its not cockeyed, its aligned in the drop outs, just not 100 all the way in the drop outs.

[SoCalSteve]

[QUOTE=justinf]Steve-
When you say the brake caliper, do you mean the bottom center or one of the arms? If it is indeed off center, you have problems.

I understood you to mean the bottom center of the brake body, in which case you should experiment with a longer/shorter chain so that the eccentric hub pulls away from the brake body and into the desired range, while maintaining tension. Make sense?[QUOTE]

Its bottom center, not one of the arms. Its aligned just fine.

It does make perfect sense and I have tried both longer and shorter, the SRAM chain I am using PC-1 doesnt allow for small increments of longer or shorter. The master link doesnt work on every link, just every other one and that seems to be too much or too little. Does that make sense???

Help!

Steve

PS: Thanks everyone for trying to help, maybe I need it to be "eyeballed" by my local wrench.

[markie]

I dont think a rear brake does you much good on a fixie. Unless perhaps you need a brake to keep scrubbing off speed on long descents. If you brake hard with the front, it will unweight the rear wheel and it will be easy to stop it turning by leg resistance alone.

It sounds like you have one link too many in your chain. Or if your wheel cannot go all the way int the dropouts, one link too short. I suggest dropping the chain off of the cog putting the wheel in the bike (perhaps with the bike upside down) and look at how much movement you can get at the cog without the tyre hitting the brake.

[markie]

Who lives in CO?

The Denver Broncos?

[SoCalSteve]

I dont think a rear brake does you much good on a fixie. Unless perhaps you need a brake to keep scrubbing off speed on long descents. If you brake hard with the front, it will unweight the rear wheel and it will be easy to stop it turning by leg resistance alone.

It sounds like you have one link too many in your chain. Or if your wheel cannot go all the way int the dropouts, one link too short. I suggest dropping the chain off of the cog putting the wheel in the bike (perhaps with the bike upside down) and look at how much movement you can get at the cog without the tyre hitting the brake.

I did this and yes I can get it to work well with the rear brake BUT (and this is a big but) the chain tension decreases too much.

As I said in a previous post, unless I am missing something with this SRAM chain (and I hope I am) when I try to increase or decrease the chain, its TOO much in either direction.

The chain (which comes recommended highly for this application) does not allow a 1/2 link, only a full link and that is too much in either direction....

I think I will check the SRAM site as maybe they make a "1/2 link" that can be inserted to get JUST the right amount of tension...

THis would fix the problem 100% (or using a different, more user friendly and accurate chain).

Thank you for all your help!

Steve

PS: Do the Denver Bronco's ride fixies???

[markie]

There is a possibility you cannot get enough adjustability with the eno (I doubt it though). Instead of getting a half link I would suggest a rear cog one tooth bigger or smaller.

Oh and Sheldon does have a half link for you:

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/chains-wide.html

P.S.

Is the Pope Catholic?

[SoCalSteve]

There is a possibility you cannot get enough adjustability with the eno (I doubt it though). Instead of getting a half link I would suggest a rear cog one tooth bigger or smaller.

Oh and Sheldon does have a half link for you:

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/chains-wide.html

P.S.

Is the Pope Catholic?

With a 1/2 link I will be able to make all 3 things work in concert!

1.) proper chain tension

2.) brake pads hitting the braking surface of the rim (not the tire)

3.) Be able to use a 700 x 25 tire and having it NOT hit the bottom center of the brake.

Had I known that this 1/2 link existed (makes sense now that I am reading about it) I would have saved a whole bunch of time-energy-frustration and blood.

Thats the ticket! Its very close, yet far enough away that its needs this EXTRA little adjustment.

Thanks again and I will be calling around tomorrow to find this part.

Steve

The Pope is Catholic, who knew???

[markie]

Re-reading your last post....

All modern bike chains have the same distance between links, (unless you find a chain made entirely of half links). Wrap a chain around your chainring and you should see one complete link wraps around two teeth. Hence trying a cog one tooth more or less.... This is probably better than possibly comprimising the strength of a chain with a half link.

Make sense?


To answer an earlier question, I ride fixed a lot and only use a rear brake occasionally when I off-road.

[SoCalSteve]

Re-reading your last post....

All modern bike chains have the same distance between links, (unless you find a chain made entirely of half links). Wrap a chain around your chainring and you should see one complete link wraps around two teeth. Hence trying a cog one toothe more or less....

Make sense?

Totally makes sense!

But, I really want to use the gear combination that I have now (at least for awhile).

The half link does the same thing and allows me to keep the same gear combo, yes?

Make sense?

Steve

Unless there is a big compelling reason NOT to use a half link. Is there?

[markie]

You wont notice a one tooth difference (much).

What gear are you running anyhow?

PS I added more to my last post. I am out of synch.

[markie]

Unless there is a big compelling reason NOT to use a half link. Is there?

The strength of you chain may be comprimised. Not something you want to think about on a fixie as you hit 180rpm on that 40mph descent.

[SoCalSteve]

Re-reading your last post....

All modern bike chains have the same distance between links, (unless you find a chain made entirely of half links). Wrap a chain around your chainring and you should see one complete link wraps around two teeth. Hence trying a cog one tooth more or less.... This is probably better than possibly comprimising the strength of a chain with a half link.
Make sense?


To answer an earlier question, I ride fixed a lot and only use a rear brake occasionally when I off-road.

I will try the half link and see if it does appear to "compromise" the chain...

My friend "BigMan" who rides fixed ALOT as well, who is about my size, says that I should ride with a rear brake. As he knows about things for "big guys" I will take his word for it. No offense, but "normal" sized people have NO idea what is needed on bikes for BIG people. This is especially true for bike shop sales people.

[SoCalSteve]

The strength of you chain may be comprimised. Not something you want to think about on a fixie as you hit 180rpm on that 40mph descent.

This will not happen as I will have a front and rear brake to slow me down...

Thank you so much for all your assistance...Its late and I am off to bed now to dream of half links and ENO hubs...

Again, thanks!

Steve

[markie]

Ever read "heft on wheels"?

Sorry I cannot spell.

I personally would change cog than use a half-link in such a critical application, but they are your teeth, well at least for now. The front brake will not do you anygood if your chain breaks when cranking going uphill, or when descending very fast and your chain gets thrown jamming your rear wheel sending you into a big fish-tail skid.

It was a pleasure trying to help. Post up how it goes and a picture of the finished bike.

Mark

[SoCalSteve]

Ever read "heft on wheels"?

Sorry I cannot spell.

I personally would change cog than use a half-link in such a critical application, but they are your teeth, well at least for now.

I'll keep it in mind! Thank you for thinking so highly of my teeth...

Steve

[djg]

Ever read "heft on wheels"?

Sorry I cannot spell.

I personally would change cog than use a half-link in such a critical application, but they are your teeth, well at least for now. The front brake will not do you anygood if your chain breaks when cranking going uphill, or when descending very fast and your chain gets thrown jamming your rear wheel sending you into a big fish-tail skid.

It was a pleasure trying to help. Post up how it goes and a picture of the finished bike.

Mark

What's wrong with a half link? Assuming that he gets the right kind for his chain, and installs it properly, it should be a solid link.

I'd second the initial suggestion of trying to rotate the wheel down and back -- it may be counter-intuitive because it starts to move forward initially as it travels through it's arc. This may hit the right spot. It works for me with my CSi (which is fitted with Chorus road brakes, front and rear -- never removed from its earlier life as an all around road bike -- and Vittoria Evo Pave tubular tires in a size 24, which may be pretty close to what Steve wants to do). But if that doesn't work, I'd look for a half link.

[Andreas]

To answer an earlier question, I ride fixed a lot and only use a rear brake occasionally when I off-road.

P.S. Is the pope catholic?

I ride fixed a lot and use my rear brake a lot. But I live in the hills and there is nothing flat here.

Decelerating on average puts three times as much stress on the connective tissue (tendon, muscle, bone) as accelerating. So a great argument can be made for using brakes to take some stress of your body.
Also, I live on a hill and have to descend wherever I go first. Doing that in a cold climate my muscles don't like starting the day with resisting.

So, yep, rear brakes riding fixed are great for where I live and how I ride.
Not a heavy guy either (5'11, 140lbs).

Andreas

P.S. The pope is german to answer your question :p

[SoCalSteve]

What's wrong with a half link? Assuming that he gets the right kind for his chain, and installs it properly, it should be a solid link.

I'd second the initial suggestion of trying to rotate the wheel down and back -- it may be counter-intuitive because it starts to move forward initially as it travels through it's arc. This may hit the right spot. It works for me with my CSi (which is fitted with Chorus road brakes, front and rear -- never removed from its earlier life as an all around road bike -- and Vittoria Evo Pave tubular tires in a size 24, which may be pretty close to what Steve wants to do). But if that doesn't work, I'd look for a half link.

This has been tried and it WILL hit the right mark when I either get a half link or change out the cog (one tooth up or down). The amount of adjustment that I need for that "sweet spot" is very minimal and will not work with the chain the way it is now.

Thanks,

Steve