Price Of A Pastrami Sandwich Redux

[Bill Bove]

Giro is going to begin shipping their new helmet, the Ionus next month. Retail is going to be $225.00. My partners says we are not going to stock a 225 dollar helmet, it is to much.

Why?

We sold the 189 dollar Atmos.
We sell 2000 dollar Zipp wheels.
We sell 300 dollar carbon handlebars.
We sell 250 dollar Fizik saddles.

Why is 225 dollars too much for a helmet?

I am going to buy one for my self and I will put a size run on the floor. Right now we still have more than a couple of Atmos' in stock so I'm not going to go heavy with the new one untill we sell off some the old ones and see how well the Ionus is received.

Will you buy a 225 dollar helmet?

[terry]

in a million years.

[Steve Hampsten]

Your partners are nuts - it will sell just fine.

2 to 5K for wheels? That's crazy.

$225 for a chunk of foam and plastic that keeps you alive and functioning normally if you should hppen to "use" it? Seems reasonable to me. Even better if it looks good, feels comfortable, and is the latest and blingiest.

[Serotta PETE]

Since it will probably fit as good as a Atmos, it would really depend of how much I like the color and the style. (I agree with you on what is the big deal when you can 2000+ wheels, 300+ bars, 200+seats)

I think some will buy it to get the "latest" style/function/smile but others will say "WHY?"" The cost difference is not much from a 175+ ATMOS so it will be a personal decision.

Probably it is lighter? more venting? etc BUT can one tell the difference. I probably could not for I really like the ATMOS and the new SPECIALIZED helmet is also nice if it fits. The Gyros fit my head very well so I have stayed with the brand.

THe BELLS do not fit me head as well, so they are out of the running.

let us know how they sell..

PETE

[Ozz]

...Will you buy a 225 dollar helmet?
I dunno....what's it look like? ;)

[Ken Robb]

Does a $225 helmet meet any tougher specs or provide any more protection than a $40-50 helmet?

They all look about equally ugly to me. I almost always wear one except on really short errands when I don't plan to go fast and crash. :rolleyes:

[Elefantino]

I think a C-note for the Monza is excessive. Two and a quarter for the Ionos and it had better have a Magic Fingers® machine in it.

I also think everything Assos is overpriced. And $400 for shoes is ridiculous. And only a rich dolt would buy a $10K+ bike.

Then again, I often wish I were a rich dolt.

[djg]

I don't know your customers, but I'd be surprised if you didn't selll a few of them.

I'm not likely to run out and buy one myself -- I've got a couple of Bell Ghisallo helmets in rotation and they're fine. On the other hand, it seems to me that somebody might like the ventillation a little better, or the marginal weight savings, or the styling, or just want something new and different. Folks drop the extra 50 - 100 bucks on such preferences all the time. Not all folks, of course, but some do. I mean, is there some bit of cycling kit (shoes, jackets, bibs, CF bits of this or that) where nobody pays that kind of extra freight for that sort of perceived difference?

[Serotta PETE]

At the 2006 Tour de France, Giro will debut a new prototype road race helmet, named Ionos (pronounced 'i-ah-nOs'). Here's what they have to say about it:

The members of the Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team, the Rabobank Team and the Phonak Team will ride in Ionos prototypes throughout the Tour de France. All combined, these three teams will log approximately 50,000 miles wearing the Ionos, providing them with feedback on fit, ventilation, styling and performance.

The most notable feature of the Ionos is the one that pro riders demand first - massive vents. There are 21 active Wind Tunnel vents in the Ionos, and they cool the riders by pulling fresh air into the helmet and circulating it through a system of internal channels while forcing heat out of the helmet. This is the same technology found in our famed Atmos and Pneumo helmets, but it's pushed to a new level of performance in the Ionos.


Giro's latest lid

The other prominent feature on the Ionos is a visible weave of carbon composite at key areas of the helmet's surface. This is a revolutionary reinforcement structure called In-mold Carbon Reinforcement, which runs throughout the helmet's liner and around the vents. The I.C.R. is a unique design made from carbon composite that is 'tuned' to provide incredible structural support, impact dispersion and resistance to penetration. It plays a significant role in the Ionos' ability to manage impacts, and it reduces the helmet's overall weight as well. Other features include our patented Roc Loc 4 system, which provides vertical and lateral fit and stability adjustments, and In-mold construction for lighter weight with enhanced durability.

[Bill Bove]

http://www.giro.com/ionos/

[sjbraun]

Not a problem. How many $250-$350 bibs are sold to members of this forum?

The rumor mill in Tucson says Ralph at Fairwheel bikes sold a $25K bike last week. Hey that includes $10k for the wheels, so it wasn't too extravagant.

There seem to be plenty of people willing to pay lots of money for their toys.

If I were you, I'd ask for the gold plated model to go in the display case.

Steve- who looks for most everything on sale.

[97CSI]

Not up for the $225 model. But, if you have any good deals on a red Atmos, I'm interested.

[davids]

I wear an Eclipse that I bought for $50 on an end-of-the-year close out. It meets ANSI and Snell safety guidelines, it's light, reasonably cool, and comfortable.

I'd pay full price (around $80) to replace it. But I don't see the value in spending two to three times as much.

Am I missing something?

[chuckroast]

I wouldn't buy one. I don't think the wheelset comparison is appropriate. A $500 wheelset feels faster, climbs better and makes me feel like a better rider (compared to a $200 wheelset). I don't know from direct experience, but I would bet a $1000 wheelset would accentuate this difference even more. A $200 helmet won't make me faster or feel like a better rider than a $50 helmet and I really don't care about how it looks on me.

[Bruce K]

It looks like the Giro version of the Bell Sweep to me.

The Atmos never fit me well and the Sweep is less money to boot.

BK

[rwsaunders]

$225 seems to push the limit, but you sell a lot of higher end bikes and accessories, right? I overheard a woman in line in front of me at my LBS last week tell the counter salesman that she was looking for something unique for her husband (birthday gift); something that he wouldn't buy himself. One Flight Deck computer, a pair of Sidi's and an Assos jersey later, she was out the door. He was still coming down from his high when he sold 3 innertubes to me. There's your market.

[93legendti]

I'd buy a $225 helmet sooner than I'd buy a $200 pair of shorts.

[RIHans]

When it costs $165...But I ride pretty much with guys I trust, 5 days a week...On a group ride , I look out for the FNUGYS that are half-wheelin, and stay away. And wear a crash-hat...

[soulspinner]

I'd buy a $225 helmet sooner than I'd buy a $200 pair of shorts.

Damn straight. Its your brain after all. My bum doesnt deserve it. Women with beautiful bums is a different story. :cool:

[keno]

You like the helmet, buy the helmet. This isn't some great economic, moral question.

I'm always amused to read about some folks who will gladly spend money on a gallon of bottled water that will cost more than the highest-test gasoline out there, or on fine beers or wine reserved for the monks who created them and Robert Parker, or on the latest go-faster item the manufacturer and their marketing gurus who persuade some that they will ride like the wind, or on jeans that cost more than a mink coat, or on a coffee machine that goes zero to espresso in less than five seconds yet patch inner tubes.

Stick to your principles by all means no matter how inconsistent, but keep the economy going for us slackers who use eBay other than when buying custom fit Serottas.

keno

[Ti Designs]

It all depends on the customer. A value based customer thinks "is this $225 helmet twice as good as one that costs half that?", the answer is probably no (fit and color issues aside) and goes for the less expensive one. If the customer is quality based and they can see or feel the difference, the answer is yes. Any shop needs to look at it's customer base to make decisions like this one. I'll bet Signature Cycles (the "high-zoot" fit studio in Manhattan) not only sells that helmet but also offers a Bluetooth enabled version for $400 with an optional monogramed travel case for another $125.

[stevep]

I wear an Eclipse that I bought for $50 on an end-of-the-year close out. It meets ANSI and Snell safety guidelines, it's light, reasonably cool, and comfortable.

I'd pay full price (around $80) to replace it. But I don't see the value in spending two to three times as much.

Am I missing something?

david,
you already owe me so much money that i had better not see you riding around in a $225 helmet.
ill have to put the clamps on.

" ok on the pound of on sale coffee... i dont want you to fall asleep at work.."

[sspielman]

The pricing of helmets is hilarious and scandalous at the same time. From a manufacturing standpoint, there is no substantial difference in a top end helmet and a styrofoam cooler that sells at WalMart for $1.99....and there is no real difference in the manufacturing cost of the top model as opposed to the bottom one. The top model represents what the company CAN DO ...and market accordingly....and the lesser models simply have features witheld from their construction....It is interesting that helmet manufacturers will market their expensive products "because your brain is important and is worth every penny for protection".....and yet at the same time think that their potential customers are stupid enough to pay over $200 for something that cost $1.79 to manufacture....

[stevep]

helmets are fashion accessories.
like sunglasses.
how much different is a pr of $250 oakleys than a $50 pr of optik nerve?
rhetorical question. the answer is very very little.

some folks like to use more stylish products and have the money to support the whim.

the answer lies in how many people on this site really need a $5,000 bike ( or more), how many could easily ride a $1,200 generic bike. probably a lot, certainly makes very little if any performance difference.


but you have the $$$ and you choose to spend it the way you wish.

some of us like poor grant maclean suffer along with 8-9 campy bikes hoping that one of them will work properly when one shimano bike would probably suffice.

[gt6267a]

some people need to have the best. some people like second best. i suspect having a higher model will make the atmos more attractive to many customers.

[J.Greene]

I'm not an early adopter, I still wear a cinelli hairnet :beer:

JG

[Ti Designs]

the answer lies in how many people on this site really need a $5,000 bike ( or more), how many could easily ride a $1,200 generic bike.

When my Seven broke and I was looking for a replacement bike I took a good look at my age and my skill level and went shopping for a $600 bike to match - none of them fit. If I went based on that, I would look at what's between my ears and probably wear a shower cap...

[RABikes2]

Giro is going to begin shipping their new helmet, the Ionus next month. Retail is going to be $225.00. My partners says we are not going to stock a 225 dollar helmet, it is to much.
I've worn a Giro Pneumo helmet for years. Why? Because it fits my head. I've tried numerous other brands and styles of helmets on, but they just don't fit as well. When I'm fitting a customer for a helmet, I pull out usually 3 different ones; two from one (unsaid) brand and the other a Giro. After properly fitting the helmet, the customer is the one who says which one fits and feels better on their shaped head.
I agree with you Bill. In a short amount of time, a size run will show if the helmet can sell or not in your area.
RA

[Tom]

Of course you need to stock at least a couple. This way, the $175 helmets will start selling.

[William]

I wouldn't buy one. I don't think the wheelset comparison is appropriate. A $500 wheelset feels faster, climbs better and makes me feel like a better rider (compared to a $200 wheelset). I don't know from direct experience, but I would bet a $1000 wheelset would accentuate this difference even more. A $200 helmet won't make me faster or feel like a better rider than a $50 helmet and I really don't care about how it looks on me.

It's a style and percieved value/stature issue.

From a $30 helmet to a $225 helmet, they all have to pass the same test standards.


With that said, you'll move some.



William

[davids]

david,
you already owe me so much money that i had better not see you riding around in a $225 helmet.
ill have to put the clamps on.

" ok on the pound of on sale coffee... i dont want you to fall asleep at work.."
Peets gives me a free cup of coffee every time I buy a pound of beans. I figure if I go every day, I'll never need to buy a cup of coffee again!

p.s. Obtuse says Sora will work just as well as Dura Ace for the Love. And it's a few dollars less. He says you'd agree.

http://bike.shimano.com/media/images/cycling/global/ast_folder/282x182-group_sora_v1_m56577569830543309.jpg

[stevep]

When my Seven broke and I was looking for a replacement bike I took a good look at my age and my skill level and went shopping for a $600 bike to match - none of them fit....


hmmm,
all the $200 bikes were sold out?

[stevep]

[QUOTE=davids]
p.s. Obtuse says Sora will work just as well as Dura Ace for the Love. And it's a few dollars less. He says you'd agree.

i think what he meant was...the sora is good enough for you...

my copyright..hes too cheap to say it cause it costs him $.25 per use.

[Bill D]

Of course you need to stock at least a couple. This way, the $175 helmets will start selling.

This is the answer that resonates the most with me. A lot of people want quality, but not necessarily top of the line. So they get the second one down, thinking that it's almost as good as the best but at a cheaper price. I'm not a marketing guru, but from what I've read, isn't this a common phenomenon in all sorts of retail sales?

In the context of cycling products, it seems like this leads to a gradual ratchet effect on prices of just about every cycling product out there. Think about bibs or handlebars or stems or shifters or helmets or lots of other things. Not so long ago, a $100+ helmet seemed expensive. When the $150 helmets came out, that seemed ridiculous, but those $100 helmets looked cheaper by comparison. Now we're talking about a $200+ helmet, which makes that $150 helmet seem like a true bargain. Maybe the new features and technology justify the increases in price and maybe they don't, but there's no doubt that an unreasonable price today can start to look reasonable tomorrow when there's something that's even more expensive available.

-bd

[davids]

i think what he meant was...the sora is good enough for you...

my copyright..hes too cheap to say it cause it costs him $.25 per use.
That would explain the many hand symbols and gestures he was making at me and Harold...

[weisan]

bill-pal, I am sorry to tell you this...'(N)rash-bar have you beat. But you already know this.

At that price, I expect a built-in MP3 player + coms radio with my SO. :D