OT: I blew up badly at 24 hour challenge

[swalburn]

The 24 hour challenge was on Saturday, and for the second year in a row it got the best of me. The heat really zapped me. It was very warm and humid. Long distance cycling is just a different breed of sport. Is there a way to effectively train for it? I rode a lot in preparation. I was very careful about what I ate and when I ate it, but still started to cramp before it got dark. At 6:45 (10:45 into the race) I had completed 169 miles and was feeling pretty good about myself. My body just started to shut down at that point even though the temperatures got cooler. I only rode a couple more hours. I was wondering if anyone on this forum participates, and has any advice. If it would have been a 12 hour race I would have been fine, but right now I need a different approach to compete in the full 24 hour race.

[jeffg]

#1: Ask Too Tall, I just ride the occassional DC

Without knowing more about your training it's hard to say what the issue is.

How fit are you? Do you ride for long stretches at the pace you were trying to maintain? Was the route flat, etc.

[Len J]

from reading Too Tall and other endurance athletes accounts of their endeavors, it's that the 2 things that normally kill an ultra-endurance effort are:

- Nutrition &
- Hydration

It is a very tough balance to be disciplined enough to find a food that is easily digestible over an extended period of time.

Your description makes me wonder if you didn't enter caloric deprivation. You may want to experiment with alternative methods of hydration and Nutrition.

Len

[scrooge]

I was wondering how the weather was this year...I rode it a couple of years ago and it was low 70s and overcast--perfect. Last year, I didn't ride, but I remember going for a longer solo ride that day and feeling like absolute garbage--it was just too hot (I was living in GR at the time). I think part of what's come out of TT's recent experience is that you can only train for hot by riding in hot--so don't beat yourself up about this one. It's called a "challenge" for a reason...

Anyway, its an awesome ride, I hope to do it again some day...and to see you there.

PS: Just remind yourself that 99.97% of the population thinks you're insane for riding as far as you did--that's nothing to sneeze at either.

PPS: Did you do any night laps?

[swalburn]

I really focused on taking in a lot of calories. I was popping endurolytes at every stop, but the heat just was too much for me. I couldn't bring my temperature down. Maybe I should have gone out slower. I just turned 30 this year, and I swear this appears to be one of those events that gets a little better with age. I saw a lot of older guys who had been there and done that and had this race figured out. They new what to eat and when to eat, and what speed to ride at. Experience definitely is an asset.

For the record, I was it much better shape this year than last, and the heat was way worse last year, although it was very hot this year. I just didn't handle the heat as well as this year. Oh well, it was still a good experience.

[ejh]

from reading Too Tall and other endurance athletes accounts of their endeavors, it's that the 2 things that normally kill an ultra-endurance effort are:

- Nutrition &
- Hydration

It is a very tough balance to be disciplined enough to find a food that is easily digestible over an extended period of time.

Your description makes me wonder if you didn't enter caloric deprivation. You may want to experiment with alternative methods of hydration and Nutrition.

LenI'll 2nd that, 3 of the 5 times I didn't finish the leadville 100, run that is, was from nutrition. And I learned more from the DNF's then other long races that I did finish. Eric

[Ginger]

Egads...I missed it again?

Sorry to hear that you blew up...

I will say that figuring out nutrition for distance events is a bit of a pita. Train all you will but until you actually do the full time/distance with that nutrition plan you don't actually KNOW that it will work, and what you have to do to "fix" it in differing conditions. With the celiac, I'm switching over to the hammer nutrition products (gluten free) and while I'm doing pretty well with them on centuries, I don't quite have it figured out yet...still something not "right" that caused about a two hour "issue" in the heat of the day...something just isn't "there" yet.

Ah well.

[timto]

I haven't done a 24 hours but have done TransRockies and spent several 10+ hour days on the mtb.

Learning YOUR proper pace is crucial! My goals were to finish each day feeling good and to that effect I rode my own race, monitored my heart rate and made sure I wasn't riding over 140bpm for any extended periods of time. Yeah that means I was near the bottom end of the pac but I felt really great and looked forward to each km. Meanwhile others were pulling out due to heat stroke, cramps etc. I also ate constantly and not sugary energy stuff all the time. I'd often pull out a bagel on the longer fire road sections and just constantly nibble on it - sometimes I'd have this thing in my hand for like 20 minutes before it was gone. Point being? I never bonked. Never cramped, just found a good rythm for me and ate frequently and in small bits.

I think if you are a more performance oriented athlete out for a PB or to kick some butt you should ignore my advice - it comes from a slow person.

But pacing (with HR monitor) and lots o' food did wonders for me. FWIW

Tim

[Nick H.]

The rules for hydration are 'little and often' and 'drink before you get thirsty'. I follow the same rules for nutrition using trail mix. I have one of those tiny triathlon bags on my top tube, just behind the stem, and fill it with trail mix, and just keep nibbling as I go. Eating a big lump of food every two or three hours has got to be much harder for your system and carry a higher risk of the dreaded bonk. I have only ever bonked once and it was such a horrible experience that I think the memory of it is always somewhere high up in my subconscious - and I react by nibbling! The great thing about trail mix is that it's so widely available, plus you can leave it on the bike for several days without it going too stale, plus it has a good combo of slow-release energy, natural sugars, salt, protein and so on.

[chuckred]

MICHAEL SECREST BREAKS 24-HOUR WORLD RECORD

CARSON, Calif. -- 17 years to the day after commencing his unbroken transcontinental record ride, Michael Secrest proved himself once again as one of the toughest, most enduring, cyclists on the planet by overcoming a bout of exercise induced asthma to break his own 24-hour indoor unpaced world record with a mark of 535.86 miles, at the ADT Event Center Velodrome in Carson, California, June 16.

I think Timto's advice about pacing andconstant nibbling is probably key - while 12 hours is my max experience, the hardest thing for me to do is to start out way easier than I think is necessary... You may be near the back at first, but as you keep a steady pace, you'll be stronger for the second half than those who blow up early and are just surviving... No credit is given for being first at the half way point!

The adrenalin and herd mentality at the start can easily suck you into a much harder pace early... (Especially if you're doing a 24 hr race when you're working hardest at the hottest part of the day - think like desert animals and conserve during the day then make up for it during the cooler evening hours.) Of course, I'm talking only on what I think I'd plan to do, but can't really speak from experience, so what do I know....

[Birddog]

Swalburn, how would you describe yourself as a sweater? Heavy? as in profuse? If so, then your physiology is such that you just have a tougher time keeping your core cool. This is exacerbated when the humidity gets up in the 80's or more. Your ability to sweat and have evaporation assist in keeping you cool is limited by the humid air covering your pores. Add to this the problem of digestion. If you are taking in a lot of calories, esp with solids that require more processing for digestion, then blood that is ordinarily assisting in keeping you cool is diverted to your gut to aid the digestive process. In simple terms, there is a power struggle going on in your body. Of course scientifically, it is a bit more complex than I describe, but that's it in redneck terms. Just be thankful you didn't (heat)"stroke out", and better luck next time.

Birddog

[scrooge]

... I swear this appears to be one of those events that gets a little better with age...

I'll second that. The year I did it, I was 24. I got third in my age group (340.7), which was cool, but then I looked at the overall standings and realized that the young group was by far the least competative. The winner was 52-ish and road 478. It was amazing to watch...

Regarding nutrition: I find that there are some foods ("bike food" esp.) that are fine on cooler rides, but make me want to puke when it's hot out. The same goes for distance--some will be fine on shorter rides, but then longer rides are a no go...when I did the 24hr., I found the best foods for me were my wife's homemade quesidillas, cookies, and a little ensure (that stuff is amazing!).

On the bright side, you're that much closer to your 1000 mile jersey...I really want to get one of those some day...

[scottfa]

I was there Saturday as well. Actually, it was a nice ride. I only did 168 miles due to rear end(mine) and lighting issues. I heard that someone did 502 miles!!!!!!!!!! This is my second year and I did much better health wise. I took along P&J sandwiches and drank a lot of watered down gatorade. Also, my wife was there at a couple of the checkpoints and that really helped not only with cold drinks and candy bars but also moral support. I also took along some Cliff shots that has extra sodium and some Rolaids for the magnesium. It seemed to help.
If you thought that this year was hot you were not there last year! 98 degrees and a strong wind. It was brutal. I finished the 127 mile loop but cramped up in both legs in the final ten miles. Boy, there was a painful experience that I won't forget!

I really like the ride. Were you there for the finish at 8:00AM? I rode three laps and got a round of applause as if I rode the whole night. Heck, I'll take that. Anyway, the last rider who had a chance was pushing to get in by the cutoff and everybody was begging him to hurry but he missed the time by 17 seconds! Ouch.
I'll be there next year!

[swalburn]

I was there the year before, and for some reason I handled the heat better. This year I had so many gels and cytomax, I literally couldn't stomach it anymore. I think next year I will consume more regular food and just plain water. I was worried about being calorie deficient. Additionally, I may have just road to fast. I looked at my computer this morning and I averaged 19.5 mph over 191.5 miles. That is just stupid on my part. Last year I averaged about 18 mph for the ride. My back side was also giving me severe problems. I used assos cream but that is just a long time in the saddle. To be honest, I enjoy the 50 mile hammerfest than these ultra distance events. These long distance rides take so much discipline and the are hard to train for. Two weeks before the challenge I ripped off a sub five hour century. I really felt good about myself, but this year the heat absolutely got the better of me. My legs never really gave me problems other than some mild cramping, but the rest of my body just broke down. The pavement on the course is not the smoothest, and at the end my back was not very happy. I've never had any back problems before. Anyway, I'm not trying to make excuses. I just realize that I need a lot more training. It is always good to get a little dose of perspective.

[Too Tall]

Swalburn - ESPECIALLY when heat combined with stress is a factor that overwhelmes ADAPTATION...in otherwords you are over reaching your ability or pushing it to the edge that my best advice is to infact cut back calories and keep hydration on high side of normal.

Training for this sort of thaing!!! Specificity my man...specificity.

[scottfa]

Gheesh 19.5?????? I learned last year that going out too fast is a problem. It is hard not to do it....you have the group start and eveybody goes out too fast. I did it again this year with a paceline of about 12 riders. The women were showing off pulling at 22 MPH and dropping out of sight.....I kept up until one tough climb and I looked back and presto!!!!!! No paceline left. It was just me and two leaders. That was stupid, I can't do that and finish the 126 mile loop in shape.
Anyway, these distances are very hard on me as well. I am better at 30-70 mile stuff. But also, it is a sport that takes a long time to learn. After two years I feel that I can do 200-250 miles next year. It just takes being in the saddle for these very extended periods to learn.
I came home dissapointed but now i am excited. It is a multi year challenge...the best kind.

I don't know about a lot more training. Unless you can do 10 hours at about 16 mph!!!! Now THAT takes some discipline :)

For me, it is important to keep in mind that it is a personal test....me against myself, not against the other riders. Comparing myself to the big boys who have team pacelines, and a lot of support at checkpoints is unreasonable.

You are already a much better rider than I am......but yesterday was my personal best :)

[swalburn]

I think experience definitely helps. I did a lot more long distance riding this year in preparation. I probably rode at least 10 to 15 metric centuries this spring. Some of them on back to back days. I've never had a problem with my legs all spring, and they really weren't the problem on Saturday. I just had no answer for the heat. Anyways next year I will go a little slower, and need to find some rides that over 150 miles in length.

[davep]

I've not done a 24 hour race, but I've ridden many brevets or 24 hours and more. From your description you definitley went out too fast, and as TooTall said, probably ate too much. In extremely hot weather, I cut back the calories and boost the water and electrolytes. Of course, that also means cutting back the effort.

In long distance riding/racing experience is much more important than in the shorter stuff. Try to find brevet series you can ride next spring. Not only will the riding be good, but you'll probably meet more experienced riders who can give you lots of tips (you have to talk about something when riding 600k). Good luck.

[Dennis1234]

I am a long time lurker here, but never post, but I feel I can say something about the Michigan 24hrs race and riding 24 hrs. I have done Michigan 7 years and have a 430 mile ave. I won the 50-54 year old cat. This year with
450.1 miles. The main key to ultra distance riding is to stay on the bike. I learned along time ago that every three minutes off the bike, means the competition is 1 more mile ahead. I am not sponsored by Hammer and e-caps, but there products are really a god send. Their website is full of great info. They talk a lot about over eating and over drinking etc. It is a learning
curve. As others have said, it sounds like you ate and drank to much. I am
155 lbs and started of drinking in approx 300 cals and 20ozs of water for the first 3 hrs when cooler and could digest it. Then till night time, I took in approx 20 oz of water but only 150-200 cals per hr. Then after dark I started
taking all the calories I could, approx 350 – 400 per hr. Went thru 3 electrolytes pills per hr!!!!!!! Specifically for Michigan the key to high mileage is stay with leaders and main group for first 126 miles, (usually a 21-23 mph ave), then make sure you stay with the group or a group for the middle laps, and get on the night loop as soon as possible!!! Night loop is very fast and should be able to ave. over 20 mph on it. Middle loops sucks.
NOW if somebody could solve my problem I have. As I have gotten older
Peeing of the bike has become a problem or when I stop to pee it takes a second to get it going. I lose time there. This year there were 12 of us together at the end of first lap, but I had to stop to pee and lost the group at
Point and had to ride the 5 middle laps by myself which knocked my ave speed down to 20.7.

[Andreas]

NOW if somebody could solve my problem I have. As I have gotten older
Peeing of the bike has become a problem or when I stop to pee it takes a second to get it going. I lose time there. This year there were 12 of us together at the end of first lap, but I had to stop to pee and lost the group at
Point and had to ride the 5 middle laps by myself which knocked my ave speed down to 20.7.

Drink a lot of soy milk for 3 months prior to the ride :D
That will shrink you prostate and re-establish flow...

:beer: