A Tubular disappointment

[Mud]

We have been riding Corsa CXs this summer and have been pleased with the ride but the tires do not seem to be very durable. Only one flat at the very end of the first ride on them (piece of metal) but we have been plagued by slow leaks from what seem to be very small punctures but no nails. Even had a leak by the valve stem which appeared after 1000 miles on the tire.

When we had Corsas on our first roadbikes (clinchers) we were also plagued by flats after 1000 miles, as though the tire gets too soft.

I know that people love the Veloflex tubulars and I find the Contis really too hard to get on but I have had no problem with the Conti Sprinters riding them 1000s of miles over two winters with no flats. I am about ready to buy some barbells and build up my old body so I can use Conti Competitions on the bikes after I get totally fed up with these Corsas.

[djg]

I just mounted a conti comp last week and it went on fine. I really think that pre-stretching is key with these things--it's a little bit of elbow grease but no mess getting it on a dry rim, and that makes the real job much, much easier.

[Nick H.]

How irritating. Maybe you were just unlucky with the Corsas? I've been checking the weightweenies forum to see what the favourite tub is over there - a high proportion of the members are racers. Opinion is fairly even divided between Corsas, Sprints and Veloflex.

I used to use the Vittoria Paves - but I expect they are too wide and heavy for you. Have just taken delivery of ten Dugast SPs. They have a lot of puncture protection, with a carbon belt, and Dugast say they have been used by some pros with very good results. They are 22 mm and 245 grams, and 98 euros, so I hope they will last me a while. I will use Pit Stop in them. Have you tried it?

[Longdaddy]

Vittoria- this is a totally biased opinion, but I would only consider a quality tire like a CX tubular for race day/special event only. Fast tire, but prone to puncture. I quit using them for the same reasons you have found. I like Tufo and Conti for tubular. Again, total bias on my part, no scientific basis at all..
Try the sealent that TUFO makes. Provides instant protection for smaller holes (1 or 2 mm).

[merckx]

Check to be certain that the removeable valve stem is tight. If it is slightly loose, they will leak air.

[Mud]

It was a hole about 1/2 inch from the valve on the tape side. Annoying. I don't race. We are the true 13-15 mph riders. As I have said previously, I am at a point in my life that I feel I should not compromise my passion. I ride a beautiful bike, a tricked out wheelset, why not enjoy a great tire. My wife's stuff is even nicer.

I am retired, and just getting by, but we ride 5 days a week so why not enjoy every moment.

But I have had trouble with the Corsas from the start. My first ride on them was 50 miles or so and ended on a flat from a piece of metal in the parking lot a few feet from the car. I had the 215gram Tufos last year and they were awful. If we rode them soft (120#) they were like riding in mud. High pressure and we might as well have been on solid steel.

The Conti Sprinters are tough. I can run then at lower pressure and the ride is fine. The trouble is getting them on. They are a really tight fit. I will order a six pack of Tour De France Coca Cola to help me get them on and I think the new Black Chili Contis may be the best compromise. I am really getting too good at gluing tubies and giving Ron at Tire Alert too much business. :crap:

[CalfeeFly]

Try some Pit Stop...there is a recent thread on it. It will take care of those annoying little holes.

Good luck.

[Bill Bove]

Sorry Mud but the CX's are performance tires, you have to accept that they are not going to be as durable as something a little less supple and heavier. I used to use them only as race or big event tires on my lighter wheels. Everyday rides were done on Vittoria Mondials or Team TSDs.

[Nick H.]

May I suggest the Pave Evo CG? Vittoria describes it like this: "Especially for those who cycle all year round, in every kind of road and weather conditions, including pavé and heavy rain, Vittoria decided to improve one of its most traditional models, the 'CG', and raise it to the EVO level. With its new Corespun K2 casing (50% Polycotton, 50% Kevlar®), Pavé EVO CG is probably the strongest tubular available on the market." The 24 mm model weighs 280 grams. A few extra grams, but perhaps a fair trade off for that nice anti-puncture Kevlar.

[Mud]

I still carry it but wasted money for me. My last thread, did not work and was messy-and I did follow directions.

I do understand everyone's points but I think somehow you miss mine. I am not disappointed as in angry, I was just hoping for more. I had hoped that the tubulars would be a little hardier than the clinchers, but obviously not. They are wonderful to ride, just annoying.

Now I have to decide if I want to stay with "annoying" or change at some point to a better tire for everyday riding. But I am happy in the knowledge that I now know the difference between a good tubular and a great riding one. I guess I could remove the valves and put in a shot of Stan's before going out on new ones. That might work.

This was a lament, not a call for help. :)

[terrytnt]

Hey Mud, I know you've thought this through, but I stopped using Corsa CX when I heard they were no longer 'hand-made' and NOW being produced in China... not sure that's the problem, but that was my decision. Last summer I moved to Veloflex both Criteriarums and Carbons. STILL HAND-MADE IN ITALY. I'm totally pleased with this tires, 1000s of miles without problems (knock on wood).

Give Veloflex a try Mud before you give up with tubulars....

[Mud]

I would have to eat too much crow and listen to "I told you so". The Veloflex are expensive. I pay about $45 a pop for the CXs through ProBikeKit which is less than I can buy them through the shop. Most times, a distributor allows 1 or 2 purchases a year for an employee rate. The owner rides so I really have little chance to use the discount. I have thought about the Veloflex Carbons but it would cost me $250-300 to outfit 2 bikes, plus I would need a couple of spares to be kept in the house. I had 2 CX spares but there are 2 tires out for repair now. It is a lot of money to invest in tires. I am not pleading total poverty but a couple of hours a week in a bike shop and SS put Carbons at the bottom of the list right now. Hopefully I will get some more use out of what I have before I make an "executive decision" on what to do. BTW Veloflex tires are not known for being puncture resistant either.

[oldguy00]

The guys over at weight weenies seem to complain about contis having too much rolling resistance. Not sure how noticable that is in the real world though...

[terrytnt]

Understand Mud... YES, Veloflex are pricy and not puncture resistant... Actually had my first flat in years after only a few hundred miles. It's now at TireAlert for repair.

You're right, we do pay a premium to use these tires, but I try to be careful (watch the road, wipe down after long rides to inspect, deflate after use, keep bike off tires when not in use, etc) and ride them to the very end 3K.

Overall, considering many other expensive sports, cycling is on the low cost end... that's how I justify ;)

[Mud]

WW guys are a little off center. Sometime ago there was a link on this forum with rolling resistance of tires. I am not at my computer now so I can't give you the link but if you PM me with an email address I would be glad to send it along later on today or in the evening. If any clincher guys are reading this thread there is also a clincher chart. Not all tires are covered but it is interesting.

Bruce

[NateM]

Mud,
how do you like the ride of the Cx when it has a replacement butyl tube in it? Can you feel the difference? I put up with them being fragile and try not to ride on glass strewn roads but I always thought that a good tubular should have a latex tube.The really nice supple ones do.Thoughts?

[Mud]

my wife has the first Corsa to come back from Tire Alert so it may be a while before I know. It felt heavier when I put it on but asking my bride of almost 40 years to make a quality judgment on a tire is really tough.

[Too Tall]

MudBro - What DJG said...Conti. Comps are very durable. My last set were ridden daily until threadbare :) Stretch as usual and than with the base tape glue dry (a must) spend some quality time with bare feet + hands going around the tyre and stretch stretch stretch like mad...apply a last thin wet coat on the rim real quick and mount the tyre. If you wait toooo long the conti. will "unstretch" if you will. Also, that's bunk regards rolling resistance for these tyres...it is utter nonsense in the real world.

[Tom Kellogg]

The whole CX durability thing seems kind of odd to me. I have been racing and training on CXs for about ten years and have only flatted as a result of nails, glass, a big rock/pot hole etc. Granted I am only about 150 lb. and our roads are not too bad, but I have never experienced the type of spontanious flats that are described here. Below, please find a photo of my rear training tire after 4300 miles. Those areas where the tread is worn through to the casing extended around the entire tire. Still didn't flat. I figured that it would eventually flat so I replaced it. I typically get 4500 miles from a front and about 3500 miles out of a rear on my training wheels and about half of that on my race wheels. One note; Vittoria is famous for not tightening the valve cores into the valve stem during assembly. I tighten all of mine down before mounting. My 2 cents.

[R2D2]

You go Tom!!!!
A picture is worth a thousand punctures..........

[Mud]

but I do take care of the tires. The fact that people have good luck doesn't preclude others from having bad luck with the same product. I am smart enough to keep the valve stems tight, keep spare Vittoria valve stems in the house, and use teflon tape where valve extenders are necessary. I am 150#, wife is 117#, and our nightly ride is between 13-14 mph. That does not sound like we are killing the tires. The roads aren't bad right now.

This is an expensive tire. I have a set of wheels for each on us with Sprinters that are ridden over glass, nails, and the worst NJ has to offer in the winter, and no flats. They don't ride as well as the Cxs but certainly from an economic point of view they have much going for them.

I put up this post as a lament, and others experience the same thing. I have two tires out for repair and will continue to get as much use as possible out of them until it is time to switch wheels again, so I will see how many miles I finally get and how many flats.

To ride tubular tires and not know what a great tire feels like does not make sense. When they are worn out I will decide what to do, until them we will just ride. :banana: