Shop ride

[flydhest]

So there's a new LBS in DC that I'm pretty excited about. One of the owners is a bud of TooTall's, so you know we're on the right track. They've been open about 3 weeks and they had always wanted to have a shop group ride, but it wasn't moving along because of other commitments. Long story short (I know, too late) I'm in to try to make sure it's a great bike shop.

The general ethos is keeping it easy while we get out of the District, both for warming up and for chatting. There will be a couple of places once we're out in the 'burbs for people to hammer or to sprint for lines or to attack on hills should they want to, but I was going to force a regrouping after each.

So, besides general stuff like the above, for those who organize such regular group rides, what else is: 1) a must, 2) a no-no, or 3) a "this made our shop ride great"? The first few will be very casual and likely have low rider turnout. Eventually, teaching will be part of it as (hopefully) we attract riders who are new to the sport.

Discuss.

[Smiley]

DONUTS you fool :banana:

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . (you fool!)

BBD

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . pick a great coffee shop or cafe for regroup and apres-ride gathering and stick with it so anyone who knows the ride but wants to go slow will know where to go to either catch up or be part of the fun afterward.

Also post the route map in the shop in a prominent place.

BBD

[Bart001]

I think that you need to make certain things very clear to the participants, as you advertise the rides:

--Will people get dropped?
--How fast and far will you ride?
--Are there different groups, each with a "leader?"

Part of the goal of a shop ride is to garner goodwill for the shop. So, make things enjoyable for the actual and potential customers who'll be on the ride!

[vaxn8r]

Be consistent, even for bad weather or even if only one other person shows, you have to have the ride. If you find reasons to call it off, it's doomed.

[Louis]

I think you have to decide what kind of "vibe" you want to promote. Or at least realize what kind of vibe the ride seems to be morphing into, to see if that matches your goal.

One way of looking at it:

"Go-fast racer-boy attitude" vs.

Friendly "everybody is enjoying this because it's not too competitive" vs.

"This stinks, because although we are all on the same route, there is not much group interaction, so I might as well not be riding with these other folks."

Louis

[flydhest]

Vax,
Good point. I think the shop owner and I will be in conversation to make sure that there is always someone going out for the ride.

Bart,
Check. It will likely be the same route each time, at least for the foreseeable future. I plan on making sure no one gets dropped. As it will be the same ride consistently, eventually, I'm hoping that it won't matter if people fall off the back and new people will have to check in if they don't know the way. One ride for now until it seems necessary to have more. Enjoyable . . . well, that'll be tough since I'll be there :p Seriously, though, enjoyable is the plan. I think I'll take to hammering on Saturdays and make this ride enjoyable.

BBDave,
Map of the route, check. I'll see if the shop will start selling the local area bike maps and take one and trace a highlighter on it.

No doughnuts.

[Smiley]

WHAT , NO Honey Glazed :banana:

Count me out of that ride Bim !

[zap]

snipped

The general ethos is keeping it easy while we get out of the District, both for warming up and for chatting. There will be a couple of places once we're out in the 'burbs for people to hammer or to sprint for lines or to attack on hills should they want to, but I was going to force a regrouping after each.



Chuck's a great guy. I've known Chuck for a good long time and we (along with timb) used to ride together quite a bit. He knows what a good hard ride is all about and has lead them from D.C. before.

But Louis has a point. It's one thing to lead an AA ride for a club and another to do a shop ride. Chuck needs to decide what exactly he wants to promote.

There are a number of D.C. area shop/team rides were one goes hard for two to five miles, stop and regroup. Crashes are common and for me, because of the regrouping, it's just not real riding.

I prefer the Saturday goon ride where it's easy for a bit then all hell breaks loose for the next 25 miles.

Fly, riding with you is always enjoyable :D

[manet]

yo

double yellow line rule
car passing rule
stop sign rule
red light rule
worn out shorts rule (think about that phrase)

[flydhest]

Zap,
Good points. Group size will matter a lot. I don't imagine this will be a AA group ride in the near term. I could imagine in the future that there could be two with one being that, but getting as many people as possible talking about the shop and getting warm-fuzzies about it seems like at least the short-run goal.

Louis,
Your last point is very much what I hope to avoid. Thoughts on how to miss that?

manet--urban, fixed gear, no brake, group ride. What could be better?

[manet]

no rider over age 64 rule

[Ozz]

. . . pick a great coffee shop or cafe for regroup and apres-ride gathering ...
Critical.....nice for pre-ride caffeine also.

[zap]

Louis,
Your last point is very much what I hope to avoid. Thoughts on how to miss that?



My $2k. No cue sheet ride at moderate tempo for the first few weeks. Get to know one another, feel things out, etc.

Currently, the cycling schedule for this saturday is looking rather poor. Let me know if your going out from the shop this Saturday. I promise i'll ride nice since I won't know where I'm going ;)

[flydhest]

zap. kewl. The ride will be Sunday at 8:30. I had sorta planned on no cue sheet . . . ever. Cue sheets scare me when there's traffic and people are supposed to be riding together.

[lemonlaug]

Good coffee is a little bit thin in that immediate area, but pressed for a LCS suggestion I might recommend Sparky's Espresso Cafe just up 14th st. It's small and potentially crowded, but will probably do. Or is at least worth a try, I'll drink the first mug and let you know how it is.

[Smiley]

No ride with Zap and Zip is ever easy , Put them two on a tandem and its a TaeBow work out :banana:

[dave thompson]

no rider over age 64 rule
I represent that remark! (I really do)

[Waldo]

To generate good will have the owner open the shop to ride participants early -- at the time of the gathering -- and have him make tubes, floor pump, miscellaneous small items available for sale/use to those who need them. Not a bad idea for the shop to have free (good) coffee available to riders in small cups.

[Karin Kirk]

I'm in my second year of organizing a new group ride out here, and we're slowly morphing our way into a successful format. I agree with what others have said, that communicating the expectations clearly is really important. If you say you'll have a "moderate" pace, what does that mean? So put the pace in terms of average mph.

You might consider having two groups. The ideas of trying to keep the whole group together, or letting a group drift off the front, only to make them wait, are not great solutions. These types of compromises often don't really work for anybody, it's dangerous, and turnout may suffer. So I might suggest that you let the riders sort themselves out so that people can find a group that fits them. Then you are more likely to have a ride that will be fun for a wide range of people.

Our local ride actually has three groups now; we just added the third group for really new people (or those over 64?? :)). With the addition of the third group I am finally satisfied that everyone is getting what they want/need out of the ride and the feedback has been very positive.

We also do lots of coaching on these rides. Another benefit to the multi-group format is that each group gets the level of coaching they need.

Good luck!

[TimD]

no rider over age 64 rule

One of my local crew is at least 68, has a rest pulse of 28, and would stand a good chance of kicking your a$$ (on the bike) for uttering that one in his presence. It is nothing for him to crank out 70 miles on his single-speed in the dead of winter. He's my hero.

[manet]

I represent that remark! (I really do)

keno's on the same frequency

[vaxn8r]

To generate good will have the owner open the shop to ride participants early -- at the time of the gathering -- and have him make tubes, floor pump, miscellaneous small items available for sale/use to those who need them. Not a bad idea for the shop to have free (good) coffee available to riders in small cups.
Sorry but Ugghhhh!

If people don't show up on time with equipment and ready to go I'm outa there. Been on shop rides like that and it's always the same 3 people that need to change a tire or grab something to put on their bike or even just get air. Enough already. Why should everyone sit around for 20 minutes while somebody is getting ready? Show up and get going on time!

I'm just sayin' in my experience that won't work if you're on a timetable...and some people will be.

[stevep]

one thought.
if the ride is to start at 8:30.
it should start at 8:30.

when you start to wait for some idiot that drives up at 8:30, has to change, etc...you will regret waiting for anyone.
ditto the change flats, tubes, etc.
bike needs to be ready to ride.

it is critical that everyone on the ride knows what the ride is. one ride will never be enough for newbies, enthusiasts, etc.

[Too Tall]

Too true Vax. The very best model for a great shop ride still had not been cast :) Wtih Flyman stepping up I feel certain the mojo will be off the hook :)

Shop owner "gets it" and has plans to show early so folks can use the rest room and make minor repairs etc. and he gets to ride :)

Leaving on time, clear expectations yep.

I expect this to become a very large ride in time and looking forward to new folks to take the reins for various speed groups blah blah blah. It's alllll goood.

Saturday shop rides are ok...but SUNDAY shop rides are like honey on a warm biscuit bro....dat's the bizness.

FWIIW there is a very decent coffee shop one block away and they've a real live barrista woo woo.

[djg]

So what's the shop?

[Sandy]

no rider over age 64 rule


Oops!! I guess that counts me out! :rolleyes:


Sad Snail Slow Sandy

[manet]

Oops!! I guess that counts me out! :rolleyes:


Sad Snail Slow Sandy

dog lovers r grandfathered in

[Ginger]

15 minute rule: Ride start time is published as 8:15. Rain or shine the ride leaves the parkinglot at 8:30. On the dot. If you pull up at 8:30, nobody's wait'n for your sorry rear. Ever.

If yer gonna have a no drop ride, rather than leading, ride leader rides sweep or has someone who is designated as sweep who actually does the job.

Keep to your advertised speed. People who show up capable of that speed are not going to return if the ride winds up going up two clicks.

[SadieKate]

I'm with Ginger on the leader and a sweep for no-drop rides. We also include a rule that no one goes in front of the 1st ride leader, or if they do and they ride through an intersection it becomes one less nose to count and their rescue index goes to zero.

We had one person who broke this rule on every ride in the hills, usually on some fast and steep descent. We got so tired of chasing her down that she has been uninvited from riding with us. :crap:

[flydhest]

Karin,
Useful, thanks. As the first ride hasn't gone off yet, three groups could mean three solo rides :D but as it evolves, I think what you wrote makes a lot of sense. Ride speed being posted is something to consider. Again, I think it might have to wait to see how things develop.

Vax. Roger, that. 8:30 post time, 8:45 roll time. Ifs, ands, or buts can be left on the sidewalk or can figure out how well they can chase. The first 5 or so miles are going to be very mellow, so chasing shouldn't be hard.

Dan, Bike Rack, 14th and Q. Sunday, 8:30.

TimD, manet was yanking chains, one in particular. I would, however, be skeptical of claims of anyone, any age, who would have a good chance of kicking manet's ***. The average poster here, sure, I believe one can make claims. Manet . . . not so much.

[djg]

snipped
There are a number of D.C. area shop/team rides were one goes hard for two to five miles, stop and regroup. Crashes are common and for me, because of the regrouping, it's just not real riding.

:D

This would just never happen on a ride in the National Capital area. Certainly not if people were wearing white and red jerseys.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[flydhest]

Certainly not if people were wearing white and red jerseys.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.


. . . see, that's funny.

To put things into perspective, at least for local riders, I have in mind that on the stretch after Macarthur Blvd hill, dialing down the pace while on Falls to River so that those who got dropped on the hill can catch up. Or, for example, on the Bicycle Place ride, the sprint on Democracy (although I don't plan on taking this route) after that, there are lights and a section of road where the group that gets strung out in the sprint can get back together.

Hammering for 2 to 5 miles will just open such a gap that, I agree, it isn't really riding to regroup.

[TimD]

TimD, manet was yanking chains, one in particular. I would, however, be skeptical of claims of anyone, any age, who would have a good chance of kicking manet's ***. The average poster here, sure, I believe one can make claims. Manet . . . not so much.

I sit corrected :) Hard to judge the road skills of someone who is better known here for posting waaaaay offbeat images.

[Lifelover]

Consistency is the key to a good group ride. Post the stat time and the speed and stick with it.

If the ride grows the shop owner can give up any thouhgts of riding. Every week so many people will show up that need "minor" work done before the ride that he will either have to be a prick or not ride.

[manet]

TimD, nice a fly' with those kind words, but the facts are: keno (chain yank'e) is twenty years my senior.. man is ripped, if life didn't get in his way (confusing him in doing so), he'd be on the national age group team. and his jersey wouldn't read 'AARP' or 'viagra'.

[TimD]

Indeed. The guy I'm thinking of is a Senior Games participant, FWIW.

[Karin Kirk]

Something else I do for our group rides is send out a weekly email with a reminder about the ride, info about the route and topic, plus a fun picture from maybe the Tour or whatever else is relevant, a link to a Maynard Hershon essay that's relevant, or other added info.

Just a thought. It seems to help foster a sense of goodwill about the rides, and it helps establish the tone of the rides too.

[flydhest]

Something else I do for our group rides is send out a weekly email with a reminder about the ride, info about the route and topic, plus a fun picture from maybe the Tour or whatever else is relevant, a link to a Maynard Hershon essay that's relevant, or other added info.

Just a thought. It seems to help foster a sense of goodwill about the rides, and it helps establish the tone of the rides too.

you are officially my hero and I fear I will fail--consistently--to live up to your example.

Wow. I want to live in Montana and ride in your club. That sounds like it creates a real esprit de corps.

[manet]

I want to live in Montana

you'll need to learn the double haul

[flydhest]

you'll need to learn the double haul
I suppose I was casting about for suggestions. Now all I need is a woman who knows what to do with a stripping bag.

[manet]

I suppose I was casting about for suggestions. Now all I need is a woman who knows what to do with a stripping bag.

i like to pet stripers

[Ginger]

you are officially my hero and I fear I will fail--consistently--to live up to your example.

.

Fly, you don't know the half of it...you should see her garden.

[Too Tall]

you are officially my hero and I fear I will fail--consistently--to live up to your example.

Wow. I want to live in Montana and ride in your club. That sounds like it creates a real esprit de corps.

Dewd...meebbee possible. I setup the google group and think there is prolly a reoccuring calendar function???? If not I can find something that will germinate at appropriate times all on it's own. Daaaaaaaaaamn that's creeepy.

Send me some verbage.

[flydhest]

Dewd...meebbee possible. I setup the google group and think there is prolly a reoccuring calendar function???? If not I can find something that will germinate at appropriate times all on it's own. Daaaaaaaaaamn that's creeepy.

Send me some verbage.

Don't you need to be getting ready to fly across the country or sumpin'.

[Too Tall]

Don't you need to be getting ready to fly across the country or sumpin'.

No....SCOTTY....the engines can't take it...WE MUST HAVE MORE POWER...

No kidding Flyman, I'm multi-tasking to the maximus. Gotta quit. Peace.

[Karin Kirk]

you are officially my hero and I fear I will fail--consistently--to live up to your example.

Wow. I want to live in Montana and ride in your club. That sounds like it creates a real esprit de corps.

Glad I could be helpful Fly, but gosh no, this ride is hardly worthy of hero status. (The garden... well, anyone who wants to come over and weed will get hero status in my book!)

We had a healthy and friendly club even before I stepped in, so I can't take credit for anything other than adding this new ride to their schedule. Interestingly, it started out as a women's-only ride to help build skills and confidence in aspiring women racers. I used the email thing was a hook to draw out those shy gals that might not be brave enough to just show up without some extra encouragement.

But then guys started coming to the rides too because they liked the coaching, or they offered some coaching of their own. So this year I added more groups so the fast guys can do their thing, the women can do theirs, and the newly formed "casual group" can get some tutelage too. The topic-based approach is a departure from most club rides and it stems from how we train skiers. So far it's been really well-received and fun, but it is a different type of thing from the typical shop ride.

[SadieKate]

I suppose I was casting about for suggestions. Now all I need is a woman who knows what to do with a stripping bag.Sorry, I'm already taken. :rolleyes: I even came with my own bike/fish-mobile and I'll share in the rowing.

[manet]

I suppose I was casting about for suggestions. Now all I need is a woman who knows what to do with a stripping bag.

oh and we like to refer to it as a stripping BASKET so there's no confusion

[flydhest]

So we had the first shop ride today. 10 folks turned up, so I'm happy. No one was dropped . . . ok, one guy let himself get dropped because he scooted up the road to talk to this woman on a sweet bike and missed the turn, but didn't care and . . . .well anyway. 40 miles, not especially fast. Our "escape route" from the District went over like a charm. Lots of local riders who had never seen that part of the District. Cool. Everyone left with big smiles, lots of thank yous, and lots of plans to be regulars.

It seems clear, however, that at least two different rides will be necessary soon. One for the cyclotouriste crowd that wants to talk and roll at 15 or so. The other will be the trash talking go-for-sprints kind of ride.

So far so good.

[csm]

I don't think a stripping bag would work too well? has to be a basket. or an uncluttered deck.

[Karin Kirk]

Nice going Fly!
Hopefully the good vibes will continue and the turnout will grow over time.
Glad to hear you are off to a good start.

[Ti Designs]

Keep to your advertised speed. People who show up capable of that speed are not going to return if the ride winds up going up two clicks.

I can't stress that one enough. As the leader of many group rides I've noticed that the fast riders have three problems to contend with. First there is the need to go fast - get on the bike and there's that little voice... Second, (and this is the one most of 'em don't get) is that their eyes are mounted in front only - no clue what's going on behind them. The key to keeping a group together is knowing what the whole group is up to. In many group rides the fast guys never leave the front, the slower riders tack onto the back until they vanish, and nobody else knows when or where. You know you're guilty of this when at some stop you say "hey, didn't we have 12 people at the start?". The third problem is the angry significant other for the rest of the day...

Most of the faster riders hate running group rides because they see it as a tootle ride they don't need - why not spend the time in the big ring making others suffer? I know that running a group ride is a great workout if done right. First, you have to know what's going on in the whole group. That means you're seeing both sides of the ride, and getting between them. Going back is easy, just move over and let riders past. This is also good for the new riders who feel their place is dead last, so they can slip off the back unnoticed and get lost on roads they don't know - help move them into the group. At some point there will be a split in the group and the leader becomes the communication between the two sides - it's interval time!

The ride leader has to go into it knowing that they have a hard job - it's not just riding the route, it's keeping the group as a group. It means lots of fast intervals, sometimes being the person to chase down the rider(s) who missed the turn. It means being part teacher for the new riders who aren't comfortable in the bunch. It also means being decision maker. If the route is OK for a smaller group and 30 riders show up, a few changes may have to be made and regroup points may have to be added and announced.