Demise of the USA made tool

[oliver1850]

Snap On purchased Williams and moved production to Taiwan and China. Armstrong production has apparently been terminated after several changes in ownership. S-K sold to a Chinese company - still some USA made stock available but USA production is surely history. Craftsman plant in Texas was recently announced to be closing. I'm not clear on whether any of the Danaher/Apex Tools brands still produce tools in the USA. Bondhus, Eklind, Snap On, Mac, Wright, and Stanley/Proto are the only brands that come to mind that may still make tools domestically. Others?

[cinema]

Milwaukee makes a lot of tools here. They just opened a new factory. Dewalt has some i know for a fact my dewalt grinder is USA. A bunch of dewalt tools are made here. A few years ago i bought some of the still made in USA craftsmen stuff and it was total garbage so not always better

[Louis]

Believe it or not, there are a few TVs / monitors still made in the US (although I'm sure their total market share is tiny). If they can be made here I'm sure tools can still be make here too.

[oliver1850]

Milwaukee makes a lot of tools here. They just opened a new factory. Dewalt has some i know for a fact my dewalt grinder is USA. A bunch of dewalt tools are made here. A few years ago i bought some of the still made in USA craftsmen stuff and it was total garbage so not always better

Maybe I should have stipulated made in USA by USA companies. I think that the Milwaukee brand is Chinese owned. I have some and they are fine. China and Taiwan can surely produce quality tools. I should have also put hand tools in the title. Was not thinking about power tools.

What Craftsman was garbage?

[openwheelracing]

there will always be USA made products, but they may not be better in the future. Complacency is the real problem. Compete or lose.

[oliver1850]

Believe it or not, there are a few TVs / monitors still made in the US (although I'm sure their total market share is tiny). If they can be made here I'm sure tools can still be make here too.

I would not have guessed that. Perhaps the global labor market will even out eventually and more manufacturing will return, but in the near term it seems to be going the other way even for long term established domestic brands. What I find most annoying is the sale of US brands to China (S-K, Milwaukee).

[AngryScientist]

Snap On purchased Williams and moved production to Taiwan and China. Armstrong production has apparently been terminated after several changes in ownership. S-K sold to a Chinese company - still some USA made stock available but USA production is surely history. Craftsman plant in Texas was recently announced to be closing. I'm not clear on whether any of the Danaher/Apex Tools brands still produce tools in the USA. Bondhus, Eklind, Snap On, Mac, Wright, and Stanley/Proto are the only brands that come to mind that may still make tools domestically. Others?

I believe MATCO tools are still made in Jamestown NY.

Sad state of affairs on the other big names moving production offshore. I guess it's all about profit and bottom line, but it's hard to believe the economics of making high quality, high priced tools like snap on can't work out for MUSA. :mad:

[Mikej]

I am just guessing that its difficult for foundry / forging and chrome plating production to happen in America at this point. Building a new facility (guessing many are too inefficient and old) for those purposes may just not be possible due to additional or new EPA / gov't regulations. I work with a number of smaller foundry / non-ferrous casting / machining outfits and its getting expensive. Lots of chemicals involved. So it goes to China where their gov't doesn't care. China manufactured 30 + million automobiles a year. 2 coal fired power plants a WEEK go on line in China. America has been stripped of the ability to compete.

https://www.npr.org/2023/03/02/1160441919/china-is-building-six-times-more-new-coal-plants-than-other-countries-report-fin

https://qz.com/681753/the-united-states-newest-nuclear-power-plant-has-taken-43-years-to-build

[cinema]

https://toolguyd.com/milwaukee-tool-new-usa-factory/ all tools built at their new factory are hand tools. Lots of stuff from husky made in USA as well at home depot. Just got a USA pipe wrench from husky and a mud/paint stirrer for 1/2 inch drills. Both musa and both like $10-20 each

Germany always made the best tools anyway. I’m liking japanese stuff too. I like giving people here jobs but USA isn’t always desirable to me. I have owned chryslers you know.

[batman1425]

What Craftsman was garbage?

I don't know if it was a USA made one - I suspect so based on when it was purchased, but I had the ratchet on a Craftsman torque wrench let go while rotating my tires. Sent my knee and knuckles right into the concrete. Was a newer wrench and only saw occasional use. N=1 and all, but the bruises were enough for me to move on.

[unterhausen]

I have ridden past a working forging plant early in the morning on randonnees, and I'm sure that their neighbors are glad they are no longer in business. In fact, I don't even know where it was, the sound carries a long way. When I noticed it was gone, I tried to figure out where it was with no luck.

[gbcoupe]

I have ridden past a working forging plant early in the morning on randonnees, and I'm sure that their neighbors are glad they are no longer in business. In fact, I don't even know where it was, the sound carries a long way. When I noticed it was gone, I tried to figure out where it was with no luck.

Channellock? Pretty sure they're still made in Meadville, PA.

[ryker]

I believe MATCO tools are still made in Jamestown NY.

I believe Matco only rebrands tools and does not manufacture any themselves. They do manufacture toolboxes.

[wallymann]

...but it's hard to believe the economics of making high quality, high priced tools like snap on can't work out for MUSA. :mad:

profitability is not enough for shareholders...they demand EPS growth.

[deluz]

profitability is not enough for shareholders...they demand EPS growth.

It is pretty rare to find made in USA tools now.
Many times I buy vintage made in USA tools that last forever.

[jad3675]

Bondhus, Eklind, Snap On, Mac, Wright, and Stanley/Proto are the only brands that come to mind that may still make tools domestically. Others?

Cornwell tools, like Wright, located in Ohio.

[redir]

I thought Stanly was a UK brand?

[Red Tornado]

Snap On purchased Williams and moved production to Taiwan and China. Armstrong production has apparently been terminated after several changes in ownership. S-K sold to a Chinese company - still some USA made stock available but USA production is surely history. Craftsman plant in Texas was recently announced to be closing. I'm not clear on whether any of the Danaher/Apex Tools brands still produce tools in the USA. Bondhus, Eklind, Snap On, Mac, Wright, and Stanley/Proto are the only brands that come to mind that may still make tools domestically. Others?

The company I work for bought a used piece of equipment last year from Apex. The machine came from storage in South Carolina, I believe it was in a building that used to be one of their production facilities. I'm thinking they still have some manufacturing in the U.S. - not sure how much. They use much of the same machinery as my company, but not a competitor.

[einreb]

Cornwell tools, like Wright, located in Ohio.

Klein Tools makes some in the US...

https://www.kleintools.com/content/american-manufacturing

[FriarQuade]

While we only make bike specific tools, we make them all in Oregon, ~85% of them in our shop. I wouldn't have it any other way.

I think the consolidation of the tool making industry and the shareholders that drove those decisions are the root cause of the offshoring. When you're turning over millions a year a few tenths of a percent of margin can make for a big stack of dollars come year end. Perhaps the other factor is when the brand became disconnected from the manufacture. Too many people want to hit the easy button and have someone else make their stuff instead of putting in the extra work and capitol to do it themselves. There's pros and cons to both and for Abbey I'll take the hit on margin all day to have the control, flexibility and lead times that improve for owning the majority of our manufacturing

[one60]

Chapman Manufacturing is US based, US manufactured and woman owned! Making great tools since the '30s.

I have their 'bicycle tool roll' and the bits are some of the best I've ever used. The precision is amazing. Customer service is great as well...sure they would be happy to put together whatever combination you wanted.


https://chapmanmfg.com/collections/all

[RWL2222]

I think about this a lot. In a bit of thread drift, if you scale this question up, it's a sad state of affairs in the machine shop world. In the not too distant past I spent a some time, as a customer, in high end machine shops. Many got blown out in the 2008 downturn, and it's happening again with the pandemic downturn, compounded by the "gray wave"--knowledge that is retiring, with no one to replace the old guys. In the US we live in the services economy--why work in a factory, when I could sit in front of a computer all day? I was recently pointed to a local machine shop that does high end (10 thou) work, and is about to go out of business. They can't find people and price point to do the work. Why?--

1. Labor arb: With the press of a button, I can send a CAD drawing to the lowest bidder
2. Regulations: Abroad (china) offered no pesky environmental/safety regulations, HR dramas, etc.
3. Precision machining requires an attention to detail, quantitative skills, and years of training. The model in the US was the journeyman apprentice. That's gone.

The realization that we are dependent for critical supply chains (e.g. pharmaceuticals, precision manufacturing, chips), and the defense resupply demands of the Ukraine war have created a huge demand in the US for precision tooling and manufacturing. We have the chance now. We should take it.

[oliver1850]

I believe Matco only rebrands tools and does not manufacture any themselves. They do manufacture toolboxes.

I'm confused about Matco. Pretty sure they manufactured tools when they were owned by Jacobs. When Jacobs was owned by Danaher at least some Matco tools were made by Armstrong (post 1990). Danaher sold Matco to Fortive in 2016 and Armstrong production ceased in 2017. Matco is now owned by Vontier (all according to Wikipedia). Would be interested to know who makes their tools currently. The current ratchet heads closely resemble last generation Armstrong, and at least some are made in USA ($254 for a flex head 3/8 drive ratchet).

[oliver1850]

Cornwell tools, like Wright, located in Ohio.

Thanks. I had no idea they were still in business.

[dave thompson]

Chapman Manufacturing is US based, US manufactured and woman owned! Making great tools since the '30s.

I have their 'bicycle tool roll' and the bits are some of the best I've ever used. The precision is amazing. Customer service is great as well...sure they would be happy to put together whatever combination you wanted.


https://chapmanmfg.com/collections/all
I used Chapman gunsmiths tools when I was in the firearms biz, really good stuff. Their parallel ground flathead screwdrivers work really well on bicycle applications.

[ryker]

I'm confused about Matco. Pretty sure they manufactured tools when they were owned by Jacobs. When Jacobs was owned by Danaher at least some Matco tools were made by Armstrong (post 1990). Danaher sold Matco to Fortive in 2016 and Armstrong production ceased in 2017. Matco is now owned by Vontier (all according to Wikipedia). Would be interested to know who makes their tools currently. The current ratchet heads closely resemble last generation Armstrong, and at least some are made in USA ($254 for a flex head 3/8 drive ratchet).

Different Matco tools come from different subcontractors. Current Matco ratchets are made by AJ Manufacturing.

[jimcav]

And I say that as I guy who used to do hand-tool wood working and enjoys a good tool. I have some nice tools and knives, and a small Gerstner tool chest, but for as little as I use them, I'd probably get by with stuff from harbor freight. I'd enjoy them less, but kind of like with bikes I'd still get from A to B ok.

I recently watched 2 shows, one about a guy who started making hand-made wooden spoons, another hand made chairs. Now both use computer programed cutters and more mass-assembly methods to crank them out.

When I was a kid, we changed oil, brake pads, and rotated tires. Now I think most just do that as part of dealer service or have someone do it (ie free rotations at discount tire where you bought the tires). My dad did all sorts of home repairs, but I think now most just pick up the phone and their visa, not tools.

The number of people who really need high-end tools is to me not unlike the number who need high end bikes:: small #s

I'm sure there are businesses that feel they need high-end tools for some aspect of precision or safety (see busted knuckle comment in the post above), but DIYers get by just fine on made in Asia box store stuff.

I'd also bet many businesses that use tools hard daily make the cost/benefit assessment on premium tools that may last longer or have good warranty versus burning through cheaper stuff more frequently. I've definitely noticed the tools in commercial vans/trucks doing various home repairs in my neighborhood--lots of box store stuff in trays and tool belts.

[Buzz Killington]

Where do people in China want their tools made?

[oliver1850]

And I say that as I guy who used to do hand-tool wood working and enjoys a good tool. I have some nice tools and knives, and a small Gerstner tool chest, but for as little as I use them, I'd probably get by with stuff from harbor freight. I'd enjoy them less, but kind of like with bikes I'd still get from A to B ok.

I recently watched 2 shows, one about a guy who started making hand-made wooden spoons, another hand made chairs. Now both use computer programed cutters and more mass-assembly methods to crank them out.

When I was a kid, we changed oil, brake pads, and rotated tires. Now I think most just do that as part of dealer service or have someone do it (ie free rotations at discount tire where you bought the tires). My dad did all sorts of home repairs, but I think now most just pick up the phone and their visa, not tools.

The number of people who really need high-end tools is to me not unlike the number who need high end bikes:: small #s

I'm sure there are businesses that feel they need high-end tools for some aspect of precision or safety (see busted knuckle comment in the post above), but DIYers get by just fine on made in Asia box store stuff.

I'd also bet many businesses that use tools hard daily make the cost/benefit assessment on premium tools that may last longer or have good warranty versus burning through cheaper stuff more frequently. I've definitely noticed the tools in commercial vans/trucks doing various home repairs in my neighborhood--lots of box store stuff in trays and tool belts.

For me it's just a matter of trying to support US industry. I have a bunch of the current Taiwan made Williams tools. They work fine and don't cost much more than they would have when I started buying S-K around 1980. What I am doing that makes no logical sense though is buying NOS US made tools from brands that no longer have US production. Just this week I bought a new S-K 9 pc. 4-17 mm hex bit set ($85), a new set of Armstrong 10-19 mm 1/2 drive deep sockets ($86), and a new set of 3/8 drive 8-19 mm Williams deep sockets ($95). What would be more logical would to have spent that $265 on something currently made here. It's my hoarder mentality at work - grab the good stuff before it disappears forever.

[AngryScientist]

I do all my own work on our cars, trucks, motos, boats, trailers, etc.

I have broken a number of inferior cheaply made ratchets and sockets and all it takes is saving your knuckles once removing a rusty caliper carrier bolt to know that good tools are worth the investment if you're doing any kind of real work, no matter how often.

[Tandem Rider]

I make my living with my tools. I have broken nearly every "cheap" tool I have ever bought, some involved bloodshed. I had to learn the hard way that a cheap tool is worse than no tool, you think you have one, but you really don't. Broken wrenches, stripped ratchets, split sockets, broken screwdrivers, the list goes on, and on, and on.

[oliver1850]

I make my living with my tools. I have broken nearly every "cheap" tool I have ever bought, some involved bloodshed. I had to learn the hard way that a cheap tool is worse than no tool, you think you have one, but you really don't. Broken wrenches, stripped ratchets, split sockets, broken screwdrivers, the list goes on, and on, and on.

Sounds like you have sent a bunch of tools to the scrap yard to keep all those broken frames company. I'd be interested to hear what brands you like and what you don't. Maybe they have improved, but I didn't like circa mid 70s Snap On ratchets. Stripped every one I ever came across. Still have a stripped flex head 1/4 drive that would be a nice tool if it worked. S-K and the old fine tooth round head Craftsman are my favorites.

[unterhausen]

If you tend to break tools, then Project Farm on youtube is the place to go. Sometimes the better tools break at lower loads. It seems like Wera is not that great if you are going to abuse your tools. I find his videos fascinating, but I don't generally abuse my tools like that.

The SK ratchet he tested looked good, but at $66 I'm not sure I could talk myself into it.

[fmradio516]

If you tend to break tools, then Project Farm on youtube is the place to go. Sometimes the better tools break at lower loads. It seems like Wera is not that great if you are going to abuse your tools. I find his videos fascinating, but I don't generally abuse my tools like that.

The SK ratchet he tested looked good, but at $66 I'm not sure I could talk myself into it.

Project Farm is the best.

[oliver1850]

If you tend to break tools, then Project Farm on youtube is the place to go. Sometimes the better tools break at lower loads. It seems like Wera is not that great if you are going to abuse your tools. I find his videos fascinating, but I don't generally abuse my tools like that.

The SK ratchet he tested looked good, but at $66 I'm not sure I could talk myself into it.

I don't abuse tools either and have had very few failures. I know I broke an S-K 9/16" universal socket and the previously mentioned Snap On ratchet but in over 50 years of wrenching those are the only tool failures that I can recall.

$66 is not much for a ratchet these days but if you are talking about an import version of S-K I would go with a used US made one. You should be able to land a nice one on ebay for under $25 shipped.

[Tandem Rider]

Sounds like you have sent a bunch of tools to the scrap yard to keep all those broken frames company. I'd be interested to hear what brands you like and what you don't. Maybe they have improved, but I didn't like circa mid 70s Snap On ratchets. Stripped every one I ever came across. Still have a stripped flex head 1/4 drive that would be a nice tool if it worked. S-K and the old fine tooth round head Craftsman are my favorites.

Hahaha, I probably have credit in recycling heaven from all that.

My dad had S-K tools, I gave his set to my son when he started in the trades, I think it's complete unless some were lost. He was pretty hard on tools as well so that bodes well for the quality.

I have had great luck with Proto ratchets, sockets, and wrenches, I've only broken a couple of sockets from using them inappropriately :rolleyes:. I mostly use Klein screwdrivers, strippers, and dikes driven primarily by the fact that they are sold by the wholesalers that I frequent so I can buy them as they break (usually twist the tips off).

I just bought my first pair of the trendy Knipex channelocks to try them out, they are only a couple of weeks old so I haven't made friends with them yet. I'm still getting used to the pushbutton to change the opening span. I can't flip just them with one hand and get the size I need, maybe I'll get comfy with them.

[windsurfer]

If you tend to break tools, then Project Farm on youtube is the place to go. Sometimes the better tools break at lower loads. It seems like Wera is not that great if you are going to abuse your tools. I find his videos fascinating, but I don't generally abuse my tools like that.

The SK ratchet he tested looked good, but at $66 I'm not sure I could talk myself into it.

Love my wera screwdrivers and torx drivers.

[Peter B]

Abbey Tools, Oregon, USA. "Tools you can take to the grave."

Best made bike tools I've owned. Good people too.

[windsurfer]

Snap On purchased Williams and moved production to Taiwan and China.

There is still plenty of Williams USA tools available.

[Plum Hill]

“Milwaukee makes a lot of tools here.”
A thorough look at the local Ace today only turned up US made Milwaukee hole saws and Sawzall blades. Most Milwaukee branded stuff was made in China, followed by Cambodia and Israel. Sadly, no corded tools to check.

[JMT3]

I have a bunch of old Park Tools and some very old Craftsman tools. Did split a S & K socket probably about 45 years ago torquing down a head.

[nickl]

Chapman Manufacturing is US based, US manufactured and woman owned! Making great tools since the '30s.

I have their 'bicycle tool roll' and the bits are some of the best I've ever used. The precision is amazing. Customer service is great as well...sure they would be happy to put together whatever combination you wanted.


https://chapmanmfg.com/collections/all

A friend that I have known for decades has worked for Chapman going on 30+ years. Good people.