Boyd Brings Alloy Rim Production Stateside [Archive]

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CAAD

04-20-2023, 11:52 AM

AngryScientist

04-20-2023, 12:13 PM

I saw that email today too, very cool.

Mark McM

04-20-2023, 02:27 PM

It's good to see manufacturing return to the US, even if it is in a relatively small industry like bicycles.

From the article:

Boyd Cycling will begin on-shoring its aluminum rims here, with the wheel brand saying this increased capacity and automation will enable it to become the largest alloy rim manufacturing facility in the U.S.

Olive Manufacturing Group, located about 15 minutes away from Boyd's headquarters, will produce all alloy rims — including in-house anodization and oven curing for decals — along with potentially helping other companies manufacture domestically as well.

I wonder what other wheel brands might have their rims made there?

Kirk007

04-20-2023, 02:47 PM

This is great news. It has been a long wait for the revised Altamont rims.

Baron Blubba

04-20-2023, 03:28 PM

I'm happy about this. I'm seriously considering a Time just to support the stateside production...and because their bikes look gorgeous and I've heard nice things about them.

The love of my life's family name is Boyd, so I always thought it'd be cool to have a wheelset with her name on it. Now I have another reason to nudge me into it!

NHAero

04-20-2023, 03:37 PM

I had a pair of wheels built with Altamont Lites that were excellent. Good news here!

RWL2222

04-20-2023, 04:27 PM

^^^ great wheels. About to go spin them up right now.

nmrt

04-20-2023, 04:30 PM

wonder if they will be making the ceramic lites...

dustyrider

04-20-2023, 07:38 PM

AngryScientist

04-20-2023, 07:49 PM

Their statement about continuing to support the rim brake market is also comforting.

I think, at least for the rest of my cycling lifetime there will always be at least a decent demand for quality rim brake rims.

XXtwindad

04-20-2023, 07:59 PM

ERK55

04-20-2023, 08:36 PM

wonder if they will be making the ceramic lites...

Me too!

Matt92037

04-20-2023, 08:53 PM

Boyd was supposed to show off the new Altamonts (or whatever the new wheel is going to be called) at Sea Otter & today was the first day of Sea Otter! Let’s see em!

54ny77

04-20-2023, 10:55 PM

Cool stuff.

Thanks for posting, I'll def. give 'em consideration next time I need some rims.

Much prefer buying stuff from onshore folks when I can.

ssb94

04-21-2023, 04:14 AM

oldpotatoe

04-21-2023, 07:42 AM

It's good to see manufacturing return to the US, even if it is in a relatively small industry like bicycles.

From the article:
I wonder what other wheel brands might have their rims made there?

This 'implies' that nobody else is making aluminum bike rims in the US..particularly rim brake and Velocity certainly is. As for making Boyd the 'biggest'...donno about that considering how many different sizes and models Velocity now makes.

But yes, good to see Boyd stepping up. Wonder if they willing to supply us 'tiny' wheel building operations..

jamesdak

04-21-2023, 07:51 AM

It's good to see manufacturing return to the US, even if it is in a relatively small industry like bicycles.

Velocity ain't no slouch. ;)

catchourbreath

04-21-2023, 09:13 AM

I find it interesting that they saw a big enough market to build out their own operation as opposed to contracting with velocity.

GregL

04-21-2023, 09:21 AM

There's definitely been an upswing in domestic, aluminum rim production and availability. In addition to Boyd and Velocity, White Industries purchased Rolf Prima/Astral earlier this year. That makes three US manufacturers of aluminum rims. I hope this leads to better availability and variety of rims available to wheel builders.

Greg

Mark McM

04-21-2023, 09:22 AM

This 'implies' that nobody else is making aluminum bike rims in the US..particularly rim brake and Velocity certainly is. As for making Boyd the 'biggest'...donno about that considering how many different sizes and models Velocity now makes.

I didn't mean to imply that Boyd would be the only aluminum rim maker in the US. For example, in addition to Velocity, Rolf Prima/Astral also currently makes aluminum rims in the US. I meant that it is good that more bicycle manufacturing is returning to the US.

commandcomm

04-21-2023, 09:34 AM

Good for Boyd. I hope it works out for the them. I will def be looking them up when buying allow wheels in the future.

ryker

04-21-2023, 09:55 AM

Wonder if they willing to supply us 'tiny' wheel building operations..

Has this ever not been the case? The only funny business with Boyd is (or was) they would not authorize the sale of unbuilt rims to the customer. As a shop or wheelbuilder you could only sell as complete/built wheels. I know this because it lost me a customer who wanted to buy an extra rim to hold in order to minimize downtime in case a rim replacement was required.

Mark McM

04-21-2023, 10:14 AM

Has this ever not been the case? The only funny business with Boyd is (or was) they would not authorize the sale of unbuilt rims to the customer. As a shop or wheelbuilder you could only sell as complete/built wheels. I know this because it lost me a customer who wanted to buy an extra rim to hold in order to minimize downtime in case a rim replacement was required.

I'm confused. For as long as I've been aware of Boyd wheels, their website allowed consumers to buy rims separately. Currently, the "aluminum rim (https://boydcycling.com/collections/alloy-rims)" page on the Boyd Wheels website alloys customers to buy 6 different models of aluminum rims. Are you saying that retailers can't sell rims to customers, but customers can buy rims directly from Boyd Wheels?

ryker

04-21-2023, 10:19 AM

I'm confused. For as long as I've been aware of Boyd wheels, their website allowed consumers to buy rims separately. Currently, the "aluminum rim (https://boydcycling.com/collections/alloy-rims)" page on the Boyd Wheels website alloys customers to buy 6 different models of aluminum rims. Are you saying that retailers can't sell rims to customers, but customers can buy rims directly from Boyd Wheels?

I'm sure I'm not mistaken because I have the emails. But the fact you can buy them online suggests a different policy now. More sensible IMO.

GreenJersey

04-22-2023, 06:10 AM

oldpotatoe

04-22-2023, 08:12 AM

https://www.bikeradar.com/news/sea-otter-2023-road-gravel-day-one/

Seems like the new Altamont rim brake wheel is finally here. Very excited about the product given the 21mm inner width. Does anyone have any insights on the hubs?

Looks like just asian made, private labeled hubs to me. 1500+ some grams and $725...Looks decent.

Kinda like DT411 or Velocity Quill rims laced to Bitex hubs using a mix of Sapim Laser and Race spokes. :)
Except about $125 more expensive...:)

pr@ttj

04-22-2023, 09:03 AM

https://www.bikeradar.com/news/sea-otter-2023-road-gravel-day-one/

Seems like the new Altamont rim brake wheel is finally here. Very excited about the product given the 21mm inner width. Does anyone have any insights on the hubs?

Hub info from Boyd's website: https://boydcycling.com/pages/85-road-hubs

The images from Sea Otter show a 32-spoke rear. It's good to see higher spoke count rims may be an option. Also, happy to see continuing support for rim brake.

ergott

04-22-2023, 12:40 PM

I have a set of Alchemy hubs (maybe a spare set or two if you're interested) with these rims' name on them. Love my Boyds.

cgates66

04-22-2023, 02:08 PM

Pretty cool to think just up the road from me there will be Time bicycles and now alloy rim production from Boyd Cycling.

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2023/04/20/boyd-cycling-opens-aluminum-rim-manufacturing-facility-south-carolina?fbclid=IwAR2v-hz241K5RqTkl0eTEGgWGrGhrRxSo1pz6NlwISjalKmY6-_-C_jOK-g#.ZEE9jy_MK3w

The Time thing is very interesting - apparently their bikes are extremely well built, and the Scylon is cool. I saw production to start in 2024.

I had an early generation of Boyd carbon wheels, which I liked - nice to see them doing some fabrication in the U.S. - frankly, if they built carbon in the U.S. I might have bought again (I bought HED for that reason).

avalonracing

04-22-2023, 03:11 PM

CAAD

04-23-2023, 06:33 AM

Nice. I just wish there were more rim brake frames that take 28c tires.

Plenty of frame builders that can build that for you.

Nessism

04-23-2023, 12:47 PM

Kinda like DT411 or Velocity Quill rims laced to Bitex hubs using a mix of Sapim Laser and Race spokes. :)
Except about $125 more expensive...:)

I'm no pro, but I enjoyed building with some Quill's. I was initially concerned because the joint isn't welded, but in use, it's no issue. Being made in USA is a plus, too. :)

Mark McM

04-23-2023, 01:42 PM

I'm no pro, but I enjoyed building with some Quill's. I was initially concerned because the joint isn't welded, but in use, it's no issue. Being made in USA is a plus, too. :)

Welded seams are generally of more benefit to the rim manufacturer than to the consumer*. People often mistakenly think that an un-welded seam is the weak point on a rim, but it is not. Rim seams don't "burst open" in use, and usually not in crashes, either. This is because the seam is held together under a very high compression - the combined force of all the spokes pulling inward on the rim can generate a circumferential compression force of more than 1000 lb, essentially locking the seam together. So what is the weak point on the rim? Typically it is the valve hole - since this is the biggest hole going through the rim, it means this location has the smallest cross section.

Of course, without a weld, the manufacturer has to use some other means to maintain alignment at the seam. This frequently done by using a tight fitting sleeve that is bonded or rivetted in place. Companies like Velocity, Kinlin and Campagnolo are good at this. It is true that sleeves add a little extra weight; but on the other hand, sleeves can be used with rim wall thicknesses that are too thin to weld reliably. Consequently, the very lightest aluminum rims tend to be sleeved rather than welded. And also, the sleeve is typically opposite the valve, and helps to balance out the weight of the stem.

I'd take a well sleeved rim over a badly welded seam any day.

*The exception to this is tubeless rims with solid tire beds. In this case, welding the seam means rim tape is not required.

oldpotatoe

04-24-2023, 07:16 AM

Welded seams are generally of more benefit to the rim manufacturer than to the consumer*. People often mistakenly think that an un-welded seam is the weak point on a rim, but it is not. Rim seams don't "burst open" in use, and usually not in crashes, either. This is because the seam is held together under a very high compression - the combined force of all the spokes pulling inward on the rim can generate a circumferential compression force of more than 1000 lb, essentially locking the seam together. So what is the weak point on the rim? Typically it is the valve hole - since this is the biggest hole going through the rim, it means this location has the smallest cross section.

Of course, without a weld, the manufacturer has to use some other means to maintain alignment at the seam. This frequently done by using a tight fitting sleeve that is bonded or rivetted in place. Companies like Velocity, Kinlin and Campagnolo are good at this. It is true that sleeves add a little extra weight; but on the other hand, sleeves can be used with rim wall thicknesses that are too thin to weld reliably. Consequently, the very lightest aluminum rims tend to be sleeved rather than welded. And also, the sleeve is typically opposite the valve, and helps to balance out the weight of the stem.

I'd take a well sleeved rim over a badly welded seam any day.

*The exception to this is tubeless rims with solid tire beds. In this case, welding the seam means rim tape is not required.

The guy that taught me wheel building taught me a 'race laced' type of lacing.
On a 32h wheel, the spokes from opposite sides of the hub at the seam and valve hole are parallel. He said, at those 2 'weak points', lace so the spokes from opposite sides cross. Some would say poo-poo so it's easier to get a pump head on parallel spokes..not really an issue tho.

BUT, I built a few wheels like this and the 'customer' said I 'laced them wrong'...so, stopped, even tho not 'laced wrong'...

Didn't apply on 36h or 28h..32 and 24h...

And rims w/o spoke holes in the tire seat? Yup, those are great fun to lace(not)...:eek:

BUT, the days of taking a mallet and emory paper to the rim seam is pretty much over.

Mark McM

04-24-2023, 10:58 AM

The guy that taught me wheel building taught me a 'race laced' type of lacing.
On a 32h wheel, the spokes from opposite sides of the hub at the seam and valve hole are parallel. He said, at those 2 'weak points', lace so the spokes from opposite sides cross. Some would say poo-poo so it's easier to get a pump head on parallel spokes..not really an issue tho.

I calculated out the difference in compressive force on the rim at the seam & valve hole for the cases where the spokes at the seam & valve are crossed, and when the spokes at the seam and valve are parallel.

Given: 32 spokes, 290mm long, 45mm flange diameter, laced in a 3x pattern, and tensioned to 100 kg.

When the spokes are crossed at the seam & valve hole, the compression force on the rim at the seam and valve hole is 1024.8 kgf.

When the spokes are parallel at the seam and valve hole, the compression force on the rim and seam is 1010.4 kgf.

The difference is about 14.4 kgf, or about 1.4% of the total. That's probably not enough to worry about in the bigger scheme of things. For ease of pump attaching/detaching a pump head, I think I'd opt for parallel spokes at the valve.

Edit: The above calculations are for the total force on the rim. This force will be divided between each side of the rim, and the seam & valve hole areas will each experience half of that force, or about 500 kgf at each location. Another question is, if the valve hole is the weak point, why would you want to put more static load on the valve hole by crossing the spokes over the valve hole?

truth

04-24-2023, 02:45 PM

Mark, you're a wealth of technical knowledge and this discussion is fascinating.

I was wondering if you could walk us through this calculation?

Mark McM

04-24-2023, 03:39 PM

Mark, you're a wealth of technical knowledge and this discussion is fascinating.

I was wondering if you could walk us through this calculation?

Well, first I have to correct my earlier posting. I had modeled the wheel as having adjacent spokes attach to the rim at alternating angles (i.e. one leading spoke, then one trailing spoke, then one leading spoke, then one trailing spoke, etc.). But that's not quite how spokes are laced. Leading and traling spokes alternate on each flange, but at the rim, where spokes from both flanges attached, there are actually 2 leading spokes in a row, followed by two trailing spokes in a row, etc. With this correction, crossing the spokes over the valve & seam results in total force of 1032.2 kg (or 512.2 kgf at each of the valve and seam), and parallel spokes at the valve and seam results in a total force of 1003.0 kgf (or 501.5 kgf at each of the valve & seam). The difference in rim compression at valve & seam for different lacing orientations is now 2.9%. Still not a lot of difference.

To do the calculation, I first set up a free body diagram of the rim. Or rather, a free body diagram of each half the rim, if you were to cut it in half by slicing through the valve hole and the seam on the opposite side. For convenience of visualization, let's orient the rim so the valve hole is on the right and the seam is on the left, so that when cut in half there is a top half and a bottom half of the rim. For a 32 spoke wheel, each half of the rim has 16 spokes, each pulling from the hub. The vertical component of tension force from each spoke will be equal to the absolute tension of that spoke times the sine of the angle of the spoke from horizontal. (THis means that the more vertical the angle of the spoke, the more it contributes to the vertical force on the rim.) I set up a simple spreadshet for the 16 spokes, including the angle of each spoke, calculated the vertical component of the tension of each spoke from its angle, and then totaled the sum of all the vertical components. This would tell me the total vertical force on each half of the rim, and therefore the compression force on the rim at each "cut" at the valve hole and seam.

For radial spoking, the spoke angles are easy. 32 spokes attached at even intervals to the rim means 11.25 degrees between each spoke. The valve and seam are at halfway between the spokes, so the first spokes are at half of the angle between spokes, or 6.125 degrees, the 2nd spokes are at angle 11.25 more, or 17.375 degrees, the third are at 28.625 degrees, etc. But for crossed spokes, spokes enter the rim at angles leading and trailing from radial. But it easy to find the leading and trailing angles, if we know the lengths of the spokes, the diameter of the flanges, and the number of crossings. From the spoke length calculation formulas, we know that the angle of the spokes relative to the flange are (720 degrees) x (number of crossings) / (number of spokes ), or 67.5 degrees for 32 spokes in a 3x pattern. The spoke length formulas also tell us the effective flange diameter is the flange radius times the sine of the spoke angle, or in this case (22.5mm) x sine( 67.5 degrees) = 20.8mm. The angle from the radial that the spoke enters the rim will thus be the arcsine of the effective flange radius divided by the spoke length, or arcsine (20.8mm / 290mm) = 4.122 degrees. So we'll add or subract this angle from each angle of the spoke at the rim, depending on whether it is a leading or trailing spoke.

For the case where the spokes are crossed over the valve and seam, leading/trailing adjustment angle is added to the rim angle for the first pair of spokes adjacent to the valve or seam (leading to larger vertical force contribution from their tensions), and for the case where the spokes are parallel at the valve and seam, the leanding/trailing adjustment is subracted from the rim angle for the first pair of spokes adjacent to the valve or seam (smaller contribution to the vertical forces). This leads to the small reduction in rim compression at the valve & seam when the spokes are parallel at the valve & seam.

Nessism

04-24-2023, 08:57 PM

Am I allowed to post a short response, after these long technical answers? :confused:

To clarify, my concern with a pinned seam relates to feeling the joint in the brake lever. I've had rims that would thump, thump, everytime the joint came around. Maybe with a machined sidewall this is a moot point? I'm not sure, I just know that I like the Quill rims!:banana:

oldpotatoe

04-25-2023, 06:37 AM

Well, first I have to correct my earlier posting.

LOTS snipped, altho VERY interesting.

This leads to the small reduction in rim compression at the valve & seam when the spokes are parallel at the valve & seam.

My head hurts..:eek: Yup, from the wrench in 1985..who taught me wheel building. Not a tech, an engineer, just a dude who knew a LOT about how to fix bikes and build wheels. Just 'monkey skills'...I didn't know the bernoullis of flying, just knew how to fly...

For right above on some older rim joints..Yup, I have wacked rim joints with a mallet, got them close then use either a fine tooth file or emory paper to make sure the person won't feel it when braking..Not so much anymore.
To clarify, my concern with a pinned seam relates to feeling the joint in the brake lever. I've had rims that would thump, thump, everytime the joint came around. Maybe with a machined sidewall this is a moot point? I'm not sure, I just know that I like the Quill rims!

Velocity aren't welded but haven't seen many issues with them.

DavoMac

04-25-2023, 08:35 PM

Kudos to Boyd. I have three sets, two Altamonts and one set 44 mil. carbon. No complaints about any of them. And Boyd stands behind his wheels if something goes wrong, even when it was not his fault by any stretch. I trashed a rear wheel in a crash. Boyd replaced the rim and rebuilt the wheel for me at cost. Great co.