OT: Acoustic Guitars

[SManning]

I am looking for some advice on purchasing a guitar. If I remember correctly, there are some guitar officianados on the board.

I teach elementary music and towards the end of the year I pull out a student guitar and sing with my students. It keeps them occupied, they think it's cool to sing with the guitar, and I can keep a closer eye on them. I've been using a student guitar from my classroom, but I'm considering purchasing one of my own. I know basic chords, enough to get me by with children's and folk songs. I don't want to spend tons of money but I want something that will last for my teaching career, has a warm sound and will project over lots of voices. Do you have any suggestions? Are there any brands I need to stay away from? Can I get a guitar that will fit my needs for around $4-500 or so?

Thanks-
Sarah

[93legendti]

I am looking for some advice on purchasing a guitar. If I remember correctly, there are some guitar officianados on the board.

I teach elementary music and towards the end of the year I pull out a student guitar and sing with my students. It keeps them occupied, they think it's cool to sing with the guitar, and I can keep a closer eye on them. I've been using a student guitar from my classroom, but I'm considering purchasing one of my own. I know basic chords, enough to get me by with children's and folk songs. I don't want to spend tons of money but I want something that will last for my teaching career, has a warm sound and will project over lots of voices. Do you have any suggestions? Are there any brands I need to stay away from? Can I get a guitar that will fit my needs for around $4-500 or so?

Thanks-
Sarah
I'm an electric guy, but check out Motor City Music in Waterford. Ask for Marty. Great selection, prices and service. Nice guy, too.

[Bart001]

If in the budget, Taylors are pretty nice.

[justinf]

For the money, I would highly recommend one of the 70s/80s mahogany Guilds, and the dreadnought shaped model is the D-25. Trust me, an amazing guitar for any money. A steal for $500. Nick Drake played the parlor sized model in this range, and I use the D-25 as my main live guitar (over several far more expensive models in the house). Check ebay, there are a couple there right now. . .

An alternative are the japanese guitars of the 80s, Yamahas and the like. Excellent Martin copies, really well made and sound quite good.

If you go with a newer guitar, try to stretch your budget into a mahogany Martin ($800 or so). Good luck and if you need specifics please let me know, j

[DarkStar]

For my money the best acoustic guitars are being made by Larrivee, superior to Martins, Taylors and Gibsons, which have sucked for many years now. You may be able to find a used Larivee in your price range. Larrivee's OM-03R is one of the finest all round guitars on the market, I've seen used ones for about $600 in excellent condition, a little less for ones with visible signs of use. There are less expensive ones to be had.
Here's their website: http://www.larrivee.com/
This is their forum: http://www.larriveeforum.com/smf/index.php
A lot of friendly and very knowledgeable people willing to talk your ear off about Larrivee's, much like the Serotta forum.
I own two larrivees, a OM-03R and a SD-50, so my opinion is somewhat biased.
Cheers :banana:

[malcolm]

I agree Larivees are great guitars and if you have the funds Tacomas are really nice. For the money, gasp, a Takamine is hard to beat. Much cheaper than anything mentioned thus far and I think have a great sound.

[Bill Bove]

I have a Taiwanese made Applause, I think they're a cheap version of an Ovation. Works for me. And soon as I learn a 4th chord and my hair grows out I'm going to a rock star.

[Ray]

I have a Taiwanese made Applause, I think they're a cheap version of an Ovation. Works for me. And soon as I learn a 4th chord and my hair grows out I'm going to a rock star.
Once you learn the fourth chord, you have to start playing jazz (as long as its augmented or otherwise twisted). For rock 'n roll, three is all you need and all you're allowed.

-Ray

[justinf]

For my money the best acoustic guitars are being made by Larrivee, superior to Martins, Taylors and Gibsons, which have sucked for many years now.

Larrivee's are nice, but that comment is laughable. With all due respect--

[Bart001]

And the recommendation to buy a used acoustic guitar via Ebay is, IMHO, bad advice. Wooden instruments can suffer a lot of problems due to neglect or worse, and it seems to me that the OP probably wants more certainty than comes with "fishing for a bargain" on Ebay.

[davidlee]

There is only one way to go ... GRETSCH !!
www.gretschguitars.com

this is a link to a cool limited acoustic they are doing... the schoolkids would love it !!
http://www.gretschguitars.com/americana/

and if you want to hear the electric ones.. here's my bands link
www.cockadoodledont.com

can't go wrong with any Gretsch !!

rock,

david lee

[Larry8]

Sarah,
Check out the Bigger Baby Taylor, it should be within your price range and is very good. One of my teachers swears by them. I recommend going to a store and trying them out before you buy one, bring a friend who plays. Every instrument is different so trying a bunch of them out is the key to finding the one. Harmony Central has user reviews of many guitars. Good Luck,

Larry

[Bart001]

and then buy locally at Guitar Center if there is one nearby.

The two are commonly owned, and Guitar Center will always match their price.

The Big Baby Taylor is $399 and the 114 is $599.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/home/navigation/taylor-guitars-acoustic-guitars?N=100001+201699+304276&Ns=P_Price|0&page=1

[DarkStar]

Larrivee's are nice, but that comment is laughable. With all due respect--
Don't get me wrong, I very much like Martins and Taylors, the expensive ones, just can't afford them. The Larrivees offer true high-end quality at a more modest price. My opinion on Gibson acoustics still stands.
Cheers
PS I also have a vintage Guild classical that I enjoy a greal deal.

[rounder]

Sarah, I don't think buying a guitar on ebay is a good idea if you don't know what you are doing. You would probably better off buying from a store that has a good selection and the people are friendly. The Guitar Center would be great if there is one near you. For around $500 (or more) you should be able to find one that sounds good and plays well. A pro level guitar would probably cost over $1,500 new. Lot's of times, you can get a used guitar at about 50% off list price. Also, unlike bikes, you don't buy guitars by size, but it is something to consider. A big guitar (dreadnought) will sound louder than a smaller guitar (000, 00, etc.) which is something to consider, especially if you will be using it for singing. It has nothing to do with coolness...Eric Clapton often plays with a 000 or OM size and it has nothing to do with the length of his arms. Also, a rosewood guitar sounds louder and with more sustain than a mahogany body guitar. Again...it's a difference in sound...not in quality. If you are trying to choose from different models in the same price range, over the years Martins and Gibsons have been the most popular (millions of guitar players can't all be wrong), but Taylor, Takamine and Larivee are also very good. Anyway...for what it's worth.

[djg]

Larrivee's are nice, but that comment is laughable. With all due respect--


Indeed, I'm not sure how much respect the comment even warrants, but the laugh, sure.

I haven't played any of the newer Larivee guitars. He was making some lovely instruments (although not my favorites) in a small shop at one point and then seemed to go through some real growing pains when he tried to expand--I knew somebody who carried them, and I played a bunch, and they just didn't seem consistent to me. I never played a Larivee I liked nearly as much as my Santa Cruz orchestra model, but that's my own opinion and matters about as much as any other stranger's Internet declarations on the way, way, very best this or that. I'm sure that there are some very good Larivee guitars around, but there are other considerations apart from the fact that their universal superiority is dubious.

This is a personal thing. Folk (or steel string, or flat top) guitars come in many flavors and there are both stylistic and physical variations that might matter much more to a novice player than strained (and pointless) debates about "the best" one might buy, if one were looking for that sort of thing. First, there are size and shape issues that really might matter to the poster. How large a guitar (and what shap--jumbo, dreadnaught, orchestra, etc.) is comfortable? Wide neck? Flat neck? Does the poster care whether the guitar wants medium strings or light? A nicely balanced tone? A warm tone? A big punchy one? A bright one?

Frankly, I think that it's very useful to go someplace where there are lots of things to play, so that one can get some sense of both very general choices and particulars. I don't know if Lansing is close by the poster (who I gather is in Michigan), but there's a large mail-order house there that has a showroom, and if there's nothing much in the poster's home town, this really might be a place to sit down and play some things. It's called Elderly Instruments--I've never been, but they seem to have quite a selection and a friend in the midwest bought an instrument from them and was pleased with it (and them). This is important in sorting new choices, and maybe more important in sorting used ones, as many good guitars age beautifully, and many other guitars--once good or maybe not so much--get handled badly and age like garbage. My first "good" steel string guitar was a used Martin D-18--I played 9 of them at the shop where I bought it and they were not all the same.

So: Martin is likely the grandfather of folk guitar makers. They make some good instruments and some great ones. A friend of mine who plays well bought one of their small synthetic guitars for his daughter and I was very pleasantly surprised by its playability and tone. Their line starts at about 500 bucks new, for full-sized guitars, and surely is worth a look.

Taylor has a budget guitar or two--different necks, different family of sounds, certainly worth checking out.

Another thing that's interesting is that a smaller (now mid-sized) builder of guitars popular with many fingerstyle players called Breedlove has an arrangement where they are having a few of their guitars built--to their very particular designs and specs--in Asia. I played a couple at a shop in DC and thought they were very nice for the money.

It's also worth looking at Seagull, which are made in Canada, and maybe some of the Japanese brands like Alvarez, Takamine, and Yamaha.

There are lots of things worth trying in the poster's price range--things that could provide lots of enjoyment for a novice or a much more skilled player. I'd find a good shop, narrow down the size and shape thing a bit, and then try to focus on finding something to love.

Good luck, and have fun.

[justinf]

I don't think buying a guitar on ebay is a good idea if you don't know what you are doing.

Point taken on the used guitar shopping for the novice. But, Sarah, if you have someone that can help advise you, then this may be an option, whether you're talking ebay or a well-known vintage guitar dealer (Gruhn in Nashville, for example). Qualify your seller no matter what.

The experience is directly analogous to selecting a new Trek/Specialized/Cannondale from the LBS vs. a lugged steel Serotta used. Weigh the risk vs. reward and decide what is best for you.

[justinf]

Elderly instruments is a great suggestion if they are indeed close by, I have heard good things.

I recommend avoiding Guitar Center if you can. I have shopped there many times, including for an acoustic, but their knowledge can be very lacking. Again, the bike analogy would be Performance Bike vs a killer local shop that sponsors racers, etc. If it's your only choice, do your homework in advance.

Have fun! There are lots of good suggestions here.

[lemondsteel]

I have played the older Yamaha (Red Label in the sound hole) and they are excellent sounding and playing acoustics. Pricing can be as low as $150 if bought right. You can't go wrong with them. Solid spruce tops and side and backs are rosewood!

[rounder]

Shopping for a new guitar is fun. Unlike buying a bike (which also can be very fun), you get to play them before you buy them..and a good store will leave you alone...even if it means coming back several (many) times to play different display models to find one you like. Someone mentioned Elderly in Michigan. I was never there but heard that they were the largest Martin dealer in the world. I got a quote from them and the local store I bought mine from honored their price (please don't tell them I said that). Anyway, buying a guitar is a personal experience and in the end you will (most likely) be happy.

[shaq-d]

ya, what he ^ said. try and play as many guitars as you can/want. just make sure it has a solid top; a guitar with a "solid top" is made out of one piece of wood on the top, and will get better with age (typically, any guitar over $300 or so is solid top, so u should be fine).

when you play a guitar and love it, that's the one you buy.

(not the new one in the backin storage, but the one you play in the store -- because every guitar sounds diff, even of the same make. for this reason too it's not good to buy a guitar used, sound unheard)

brand names don't matter much. i for example love the seagull/larivee sound (deeper/bassier), while others like the yamaha sound (clearer/brighter). you'll know exactly what i mean when u try out the guitars...

sd

[SManning]

Thank you for all of the suggestions about choosing a guitar. Everyone has given me lots to think about. I don't feel comfortable going the e-bay route; every instrument is unique and I'd rather play it than buy something sight unseen. Lansing isn't that far way, maybe I'll try Elderly Music, it looks like a very cool shop.

Thanks again, I didn't expect this many replies. If anyone has any other suggestions, keep them coming...

Sarah

[Big Dan]

Get Taylor if you can afford one. Nice tone and easy to play.
I play a Guild, but if needed to replace it, I would get a Taylor.
Have fun.

:)

[cinelli]

[QUOTE=DarkStar]For my money the best acoustic guitars are being made by Larrivee, superior to Martins, Taylors and Gibsons, which have sucked for many years now.

You cannot be serious.

[DfCas]

I tried quite a few guitars in the 500-1500 range and I bought a Garrison at $600.

They have a top nut/bridge system that lets the guitar play in tune better than any other I could find.

I tune pianos for my livelihood and intonation is critical to me.

[SManning]

First, thanks to everyone for all of the advice. I think I would've made some mistakes without everyone's help.

I went to Elderly Instruments in Lansing. The shop was awesome! They had a huge selection of guitars, fiddles, string bass, mandolins, ukeleles, electric guitars, etc. That was impressive in itself. The staff was very helpful, they let me play and left me alone until I was ready for help. I tried tons of guitars and attempted to limit instruments that were in my price range. But, I got curious.... I tried a Seagull, Bluegrass, Yamaha, cheaper Martin, Alvarez, Taylor and an Arch and Lutherie. The salesman did a good job of keeping me in my price range, but I decided to try a more expensive Martin ($800 range) out of curiousity's sake. At that point I was in the expensive room for the remainder of my shopping trip. Then he brought me a Larivee OM3, we eliminated the expensive Martin quickly. He also brought me a Big Baby Taylor towards the end, which eliminated the Bluegrass. I had pretty much eliminated everything but the Big Baby Taylor and the Larivee. They seemed to have the best sound to me of what I had tried, but the Larivee was twice as expensive as the Big Baby Taylor.

It was really hard to balance the musician ears in me versus the I only know 7 chords and this isn't my main instrument. The Larivee came off really well from the very beginning, the Taylor started singing but I had to be a little more aggressive. It's also hard to really play out when you suck, compared to everyone else around you. I just really kept playing each guitar and the differences between the two seemed to narrow as I became more comfortable with each instrument. I walked out of Elderly Instruments with the Big Baby Taylor.

I have a 48 hour grace period in which I can stew and think this decision over. Hopefully buyer's remorse won't kick in and I'll still be happy with my purchase in the morning.

Thanks-
Sarah

[Jeff N.]

Electric: Gibson Les Paul Gold Top. It'll bring out the John Fogerty in you.
Acoustic: Ovation. Never heard one I didn't like. Jeff N.

[djg]

Congratulations Sarah.

I hope that you don't have buyer's remorse. It sounds like you did this in just the right way--you went to a helpful and well-stocked shop, tried different things and found something you really liked. Taylor makes fine guitars, and a 15/16 scale with that thinner Taylor neck suggests that you found something with a nice sound and a manageable neck for yourself. You should be able to enjoy it for many years to come.

[RIHans]

Well, Is there a better guitar than a Dreadnought? Maybe a Telecaster?
I'd ask Pete Townsend...He can play.
Hey, I ride a steel bike.
Handmade, craftsmenship, unique skill...

[ti_boi]

Nothing Wrong with a Big Baby Taylor....so many great instruments in the world, but it is your hand and your ear and that is the difference.

[flydhest]

I'll throw out Guild again. I have one and love it. One attribute it has that would suit the OP's needs, given that he is playing for a room of children, is that it projects very well. It's volume is greater than almost any other steel string acoustic I've played.

Of course, spinning the knob on the amp makes the Fender louder, but let's stick to the question . . . :)

[SManning]

Well, I bought the Big Baby Taylor on Saturday. I brought it home and played it and played it and played it.... It just didn't work out. The strings were too far off the fingerboard for my taste and the higher notes were too tinny... The sound just kept driving me nuts. I really felt like I had to work to make the guitar sing, I wanted something that was effortless. So, I took it back yesterday and bought the Larivee. It's an Orchestra Model 03. I should've bought the Larivee in the first place. When I played it at the store, I really liked its sound but I just didn't want to go over my budget. My husband keeps teasing me that atleast it's cheaper than a Steinway piano.

Thanks again for everyone's adivce. I have a guitar that will last me for the rest of my life. Hopefully there will be lots of fun family memories that come from this purchase. The Larivee also got a thumbs up from my students!!!!

[ti_boi]

It's great that you were able to do that. In the world of guitars, especially acoustics, you really do get what you pay for. Also no two acoustics really play alike for some reason....even one's by the same maker. Set-up and build quality sometimes vary so much that you really have to jump on the 'one' when you find it. I play a Gibson Jumbo J35 X-tra, which new would go around $2300....

I bought it used at a store in Chicago (over a Larivee with an awesome Griffin Inlay, but that is not important). I like the sound and the string tension, but for some players, they would not want it. Years later it developed a nice hairline crack :crap: in the spruce top from not being properly hydrated. It plays great and I will never sell it but be warned.....

Make sure that you keep your acoustic in a room with humidity present....in the winter when your heat is on full blast....be extra careful to hydrate that instrument.

[rounder]

Thanks again for everyone's adivce. I have a guitar that will last me for the rest of my life. Hopefully there will be lots of fun family memories that come from this purchase. The Larivee also got a thumbs up from my students!!!!

I think you did the right thing. You should end up with the guitar that you like and then (hopefully) love it for ever. I had a rosewood Martin dreadnought for over 20 years and thought I would never get rid of it...until it was stolen. I moped about it being gone for a few years. Then realized how stupid that was, so bought another one pretty much just like it. The price had gone way up since the 70's, but it was WORTH IT.

[shaq-d]

So, I took it back yesterday and bought the Larivee. It's an Orchestra Model 03.

awesome. now that i've given the its-all-subjective advice, lemme just say i love larivee, and seagull and norman too (all the same sorta make)...

sd

[Chad Engle]

Ti boi
How do you insure the instrument is properly hydrated?

Thanks,
Chad

[Louis]

How do you insure the instrument is properly hydrated?

Store it in the humidor with the Cohibas?

Seriously, if you keep the humidity in your home around 50% +/- 5% I doubt that you'll ever have any problems.

Disclaimer: I know nothing about guitars.

[ti_boi]

Ti boi
How do you insure the instrument is properly hydrated?

Thanks,
Chad


Choose a room with the right level of humidity....avoid dryness at all costs. I actually installed a honeywell whole house humidification system at the furnace with an ultra violet bacteria eradification system like hospitals use (OK, I know that is extreme)

If you want to hydrate your guitar, there are a couple of kits available....you douse a special made wick with water and place it in the soundhole, you can measure the results from there.

[Vancouverdave]

Gee, with a guitar discussion on a bike forum, surprising that nobody has mentioned the Saga Gitane instruments before this! Seriously, they're an oddball acoustic--a copy of the Selmer-designed guitars that Django Reinhardt and others invented "gypsy jazz" with. Nice, offbeat acoustic instruments.

[DarkStar]

[QUOTE=SManning] So, I took it back yesterday and bought the Larivee. It's an Orchestra Model 03. I should've bought the Larivee in the first place. QUOTE]
The 0M-3 is a fine instrument that you will enjoy for many years, I played mine for two hours this morning :)

[ti_boi]

Here's My Gibson. We need more cowbell.

[dirtclub]

you may want to check with serotta bonder extraordinaire orien mcdonald. he makes guitars. pretty nice. not sure what he charges, but it may be worth asking.