Milano-SanRemo -- who you got? *Spoilers*

[Clean39T]

Will it go to the sprinters or the breakaway? Or the breakaway sprinters?

I wanted Pidders. Next best for me is MVDP. Or anybody but Pog.. because I can only handle so many Pog on the Poggio puns. You know they're queued up.


https://i.imgflip.com/7eyivm.jpg


..

[prototoast]

My top three are Pogacar, van Aert, and Ewan.

Van der Poel looks like he's not in good form right now. I've heard some whispers about Ganna, but it's to be seen if you can actually execute in a tactical environment.

[jamesdak]

Still remember Oscar beating Zabel at the end when Zabel failed to ride through the line. Lost my mind in joy and disbelief! :banana:


https://youtu.be/C8UVooIqea0

[yinzerniner]

My top three are Pogacar, van Aert, and Ewan.

Van der Poel looks like he's not in good form right now. I've heard some whispers about Ganna, but it's to be seen if you can actually execute in a tactical environment.

This aged like milk :banana:

But seriously, what a ride by MVdP, one for the ages. The rest of the finishing order prediction was just about spot in, but that final push was something else.

Vid of the decisive attack. Couldn’t have been timed more perfectly.
https://twitter.com/opaisdociclismo/status/1637117133829046272?s=46&t=iCbxY3UFtfawUvkBxV3khw

[Clean39T]

This aged like milk :banana:

But seriously, what a ride by MVdP, one for the ages. The rest of the finishing order prediction was just about spot in, but that final push was something else.

Vid of the decisive attack. Couldn’t have been timed more perfectly.
https://twitter.com/opaisdociclismo/status/1637117133829046272?s=46&t=iCbxY3UFtfawUvkBxV3khw

#allthewattz

[prototoast]

This aged like milk :banana:

But seriously, what a ride by MVdP, one for the ages. The rest of the finishing order prediction was just about spot in, but that final push was something else.

Vid of the decisive attack. Couldn’t have been timed more perfectly.
https://twitter.com/opaisdociclismo/status/1637117133829046272?s=46&t=iCbxY3UFtfawUvkBxV3khw

Hey now. If I couldn't make bad predictions, I wouldn't be able to make any predictions at all.

[72gmc]

Hey now. If I couldn't make bad predictions, I wouldn't be able to make any predictions at all.

Too many good predictions means not enough rivals for the win!

I will now hope Mathieu puts it together at Roubaix.

[nalax]

Good to see Powless in top 10. I'm not a fan of Ineos, but am impressed by Ganna. Cyclingnews had a pretty good shot of MVDP.


https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/WS4smFMSFiaLACLdxEoasK-1200-80.jpg.webp

[geordanh]

That was a hell of a race! Wow

[dave thompson]

I'm hoping that the quality of today's race gives hints of the quality of the upcoming classics and grand tours. I think we're in for a helluva year of great racing!

[geordanh]

I'm hoping that the quality of today's race gives hints of the quality of the upcoming classics and grand tours. I think we're in for a helluva year of great racing!

So it’s not just me? I’ve never been this into road racing. So many great riders, all of them quite different, but all capable of lighting up these big one day races.

[Xrslug]

Some of the moto shots of the group flowing through those narrow turns at speed were incredible. What skill and power. Chapeau!

[mhespenheide]

I've not really been a fan MVdP before this. He's had my respect, but now ... I might just have to start liking the guy.

[AngryScientist]

Just watched the recap. What a move, and sharp fast descending. Takes a lot of the right stuff to attack at the end of a climb after a monster day on the bike and keep it not only together on the descent but continue to build the gap. Nice. Excellent bike racing.

[reuben]

Some of the moto shots of the group flowing through those narrow turns at speed were incredible. What skill and power. Chapeau!
Near the end of the race as the peloton was being whittled down, they went into a sharp funnel with buildings next to the road on both sides. The helicopter shot of that rapid compression at race speed made my butt pucker.

ETA: I think it was the sequence between 2:30 and 2:40 in this video.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g5MhfK6f_Us

[trener1]

That was nothing short of incredible.
I was rooting for Ewan, but man when you have those guys up there it's near impossible for a sprinter even one that can climb really well to win.
When Pog went, and MvDP was like, ok hold my beer!! I mean wow!
Also a super impressive ride by Ganna, and a great ride by Powless.
Yeah I think the rest of the classics will be a real brawl between the top 4 we saw today plus Pidcock and a few other ones, it's going to be epic.
Meanwhile Lefevre's head must be exploding.

[gbcoupe]

Near the end of the race as the peloton was being whittled down, they went into a sharp funnel with buildings next to the road on both sides. The helicopter shot of that rapid compression at race speed made my butt pucker.

Yeah, Adam Blythe's sweater did that for me. Seriously though, great race!

[GregL]

According to Cyclingnews (https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/fastest-time-recorded-on-poggio-set-by-van-der-poel-at-milan-san-remo/), the top four at MSR today all broke the old record for fastest ascent of the Poggio. MvdP now holds the new record. I think the old adage “the sprinter’s classic” is no longer applicable.

Greg

[AngryScientist]

According to Cyclingnews (https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/fastest-time-recorded-on-poggio-set-by-van-der-poel-at-milan-san-remo/), the top four at MSR today all broke the old record for fastest ascent of the Poggio. MvdP now holds the new record. I think the old adage “the sprinter’s classic” is no longer applicable.

Greg

golly, i want to give it a go, both up and down to see how miserably i compare!

[GregL]

golly, i want to give it a go, both up and down to see how miserably i compare!I know that for me, comparisons to pros are sobering. When the UCI world championships were held in Hamilton, Ontario in 2003, a friend and I rode the course a few days before the men’s and women’s road races. As we were huffing and puffing up one of the climbs in our small chainrings, we were passed by Erik Zabel and the German men’s team. They were in their big rings, at a conversational pace. They went by us like we were standing still…

Greg

[weisan]

All comes down to this...

https://tiz-cycling.io/video/milano-sanremo-2023-last-20-km/

[unterhausen]

When MVdP took off, it was an all-out sprint.
https://twitter.com/Fack1986/status/1637212072625807360

[Marvinlungwitz]

That roadside video is spectacular.

[AngryScientist]

hot damn. that's fast.

[reuben]

hot damn. that's fast.
At the top of a climb, after about 275km of racing.

[tv_vt]

From CyclingNews: "Van der Poel averaged 39.18 kph on the climb of the Poggio, and according to La Gazzetta dello Sport he had an estimated average power output of 564 watts, or 7.5 watts/kg."

Holy s--t. I can't hit 564 watts for 5 seconds, much less for over 5 minutes. Average speed of almost 25mph, uphill. Are these guys human?

[Jaybee]

I really hope Ganna becomes Cancellara 2.0

[unterhausen]

Ganna was really impressive at the finish.

[ducati2]

From CyclingNews: "Van der Poel averaged 39.18 kph on the climb of the Poggio, and according to La Gazzetta dello Sport he had an estimated average power output of 564 watts, or 7.5 watts/kg."

Holy s--t. I can't hit 564 watts for 5 seconds, much less for over 5 minutes. Average speed of almost 25mph, uphill. Are these guys human?

They are “More human than human”

[lavi]

The couch shots prior to the podium were priceless.

Great race!

[Xrslug]

The couch shots prior to the podium were priceless.

Great race!

Was just going to post the same:
https://www.wielerflits.nl/nieuws/ongemakkelijke-foto-van-der-poel-ganna-en-van-aert-gaat-viral-ik-vroeg-naar-gannas-programma/?amp

[flying]

Ganna was really impressive at the finish.

He really was the MSR surprise I think

Not just the finish but hanging with the three on the Poggio

I actually think if he was the one in front (not Pogacar)
They might have hung on to MVDP

But once Pogacar allowed that gap that was game over

But as you said at the finish he showed again he was best of the rest

[lavi]

Only thing I would have loved to have seen would have been Pidcock going MotoGP style down the Poggio.....would have been both terrific and terrifying.

I always love "demon descenders"....like Il Falco, and how his descending helped him win the Giro.

[Jaybee]

He really was the MSR surprise I think

Not just the finish but hanging with the three on the Poggio

I actually think if he was the one in front (not Pogacar)
They might have hung on to MVDP

But once Pogacar allowed that gap that was game over

But as you said at the finish he showed again he was best of the rest


I think they needed Wout on the front, at least for the descent Neither Ganna nor Pogacar are in that elite Pidcock/Mohoric/Alaphillipe tier of descenders. Wout and MVDP are close. Ganna let a lot of gaps open on the corners that slowed the pursuit.

[weisan]

Chris Horner butterfly effect analysis
https://youtu.be/8sWdnJbyfIc

[Metz]

The couch shots prior to the podium were priceless.

Great race!

I live in a house divided - my wife watches VDP's Amstel Gold finish repeatedly (I kid you not) and gets tears in her eyes (another I kid you not). On the other hand, I am in Wout's corner. Of course we love both but love one a little less than the other. Once it got down to seven and then four we got so excited - and then the thermonuclear VDP bomb went off. She kept wringing her hands and asking "do you think he's gonna get caught?" and I kept saying "no way." She made me rewind the couch scene so she could get a pic of Wout straining his neck to look left.

I still think VDP's 2019 Flanders chase to finish 4th after breaking his front wheel and doing an endo might be his most amazing achievement yet.

Would it be too much to ask to see a Flanders foursome of VDP, Wout, Pog and Alaphilippe break it off together the last 20-30kms?

[Kyle h]

He really was the MSR surprise I think

Not just the finish but hanging with the three on the Poggio

I actually think if he was the one in front (not Pogacar)
They might have hung on to MVDP

But once Pogacar allowed that gap that was game over

But as you said at the finish he showed again he was best of the rest

Lots of coulda/woulda but I don’t think it mattered who was on the front. I don’t think anyone had the legs to match VdPs snap on that attack. He played it well with having WvA close the initial attack to Tadej and then shot his shot. Great move and a great win on all fronts IMO

[reuben]

Would it be too much to ask to see a Flanders foursome of VDP, Wout, Pog and Alaphilippe break it off together the last 20-30kms?
The hilly classics like LBL could be awesome this year.

[lavi]

my wife...SNIP

Would it be too much to ask to see a Flanders foursome of VDP, Wout, Pog and Alaphilippe break it off together the last 20-30kms?

My wife has crushes on Wout, VDP, and Alaphileppe. She was actually engaged watching the last 20k. :banana:

I'd love to see what you mention too. Throw Pidcock in the mix too please.
However, I wonder if Julian has the spark he once had. I sure hope he does!

We are lucky bums to get to watch this racing action. What an amazing cast of characters.

[trener1]

You beat me to it, but yes add Pidcock to the mix, and maybe not this year just yet but I think next year we will also see Arnaud De Lie banging bars with those 4 and lets not forget about some guy that happens to be wearing the rainbow stripes this year, he can definitely mix it up with those guys in the hilly classics.
Lets just say this is a great time to be a bike racing fan, it's going to be epic!

[shoota]

I've not really been a fan MVdP before this. He's had my respect, but now ... I might just have to start liking the guy.

What the heck is to not like about him?

[lavi]

What the heck is to not like about him?

His money. His youth. His legs. You know...the usual envy stuff. ;)

[prototoast]

What the heck is to not like about him?

The Australia incident.

His Olympics mountain bike incident.

[trener1]

His Olympics mountain bike incident.

You dont like him because he crashed?

[deluz]

Watching replays MVDP only had about 3 or 4 second gap at the top of the climb, it was on the downhill that he really won it. Those other guys must have been really toast to not close the gap on the downhill.
When MVDP is on he is probably going to win.

[mhespenheide]

What the heck is to not like about him?

That's a great question. Historically I tend to like climber-types rather than sprinter-types, so when MVdP and WVA came up as rivals, I guess I just went with Wout. I've never disliked Mathieu. But it's not until his yellow jersey exploits and this MSR that I've really felt drawn to him as a fan.

If you're a fan, I can easily understand why.

[72gmc]

The latest Cycling Podcast had good observations about the relative sizes of the top four riders. Probably not ideal for Tadej to continue arriving at that long run-in surrounded by locomotives.

[reuben]

That's a great question. Historically I tend to like climber-types rather than sprinter-types, so when MVdP and WVA came up as rivals, I guess I just went with Wout. I've never disliked Mathieu. But it's not until his yellow jersey exploits and this MSR that I've really felt drawn to him as a fan.

If you're a fan, I can easily understand why.
I don't race anything these days, and definitely not cyclocross, but I love watching it. At the CX worlds this year Van der Poel and Van Aert took off after half a lap to drop the rest of the field, and then attacked each other off and on over the rest of the race. To watch the TV side view of them going up that hill was stunning. Most of the time Van der Poel led, but occasionally Van Aert (if I remember correctly). It wasn't steep, and not overly long, but wow. Just. Wow.

2023 CX WC highlights:

1:05 - up the hill, on the first lap of 10; how fast are they going on those low pressure tires?
1:50 - up the hill again
3:30 - Van Aert goes to the front
3:55 - SPRINT!!!!!!

That finishing sprint, on low pressure tires... Holy Cannoli!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2iwAMj_Y54

It's awesome to watch either of them, and an almost guilty pleasure to watch them compete against each other in a race to which they're both suited and on form.

We are lucky bums to get to watch this racing action. What an amazing cast of characters.
This.

[tv_vt]

My wife has crushes on Wout, VDP, and Alaphilippe. She was actually engaged watching the last 20k. :banana:.

Don't get me started on female tennis players...;)

PS. I almost thought you were going to say she was actually engaged - to one of them.

[reuben]

My wife has crushes on Wout, VDP, and Alaphileppe. She was actually engaged watching the last 20k. :banana:

I'd love to see what you mention too. Throw Pidcock in the mix too please.
However, I wonder if Julian has the spark he once had. I sure hope he does!

We are lucky bums to get to watch this racing action. What an amazing cast of characters.
Due to his size Pidcock doesn't have the absolute power (watts) to consistently compete against the likes of Van Aert and Van der Poel in a time trial, sprint, or late race burst, but he does have the watts/kg for longer/steeper climbs. And if there's a long and winding downhill, he gets the edge again. Tradeoffs. Go with your strength, minimize your weaknesses. Nothing new there.

But on any given day...

I'm hoping that they all line up at LBL, along with many of the other top contenders and animators, including Evenepoel.

[Metz]

It's awesome to watch either of them, and an almost guilty pleasure to watch them compete against each other in a race to which they're both suited and on form.


This.

My wife and I started watching Euro CX about five years ago and developed our relative crushes on these two based on that. Seeing Wout start on the road and do so well in Strade (2018?) after cramping on the final climb was amazing and then VDP also burst on to the road scene. Wout absolutely dominated CX this season really until the World Championship race. The women are usually more fun to watch and more competitive since it's not just the Wout/VDP show.

If we take away the Australia stuff (in my opinion the parents, kids and VDP all made big mistakes) and just look at the riding I'd say my biggest complaint against VDP is that he has shown a tendency to give up if things aren't going his way and/or he's not feeling great. This goes back to his Junior days. He wears his emotions on his sleeve much more so than Wout - I tease my wife that he's a Dutch Latino (she's Latina) due to all the histrionics after wins. But he's stupendous and just a blast to watch when he's on. As someone else said, when he's 100% he's tough to beat.

As far as Wout I don't see anything that can be criticized other than some questionable tactics - maybe that's due to how strong he is and not having to learn that skill. VDP has gotten much better tactically the last 12-18 months and will continue to beat Wout on certain parcours even if they are on equal form due to that. If you put a guy like Trentin's tactical nous into Wout's brain then he'd be superman. But his ability to win field sprints, rolling Classics, compete at LBL, time trial, win on a mountaintop (Ventoux) and to be a great teammate/domestique is unrivalled. He might not win like Pog (the new Cannibal) but there's also no one like him.

[trener1]

I'm also in the Wout camp.
I think that head to head on the right course MvDP has the slight edge.
But Wouts versatility is just completely unrivaled, what he did in the 2021 Tour Winning a Mountain top stage, then a TT and the the sprint in Paris ( I believe all in 3 days) was just nuts.
Also in last years Tour he basically had the green jersey wrapped on day 1, it wasn't even in doubt.
And what someone else mentioned, he is also a great teammate, blowing the race up for Vingagard on one day, then single handedley dragging vingogard up one of the climbs and away from Pog on another stage etc... is just stuff of legends.
He does however need to win a few more monuments and rainbow jersey

[prototoast]

I'm also in the Wout camp.
I think that head to head on the right course MvDP has the slight edge.
But Wouts versatility is just completely unrivaled, what he did in the 2021 Tour Winning a Mountain top stage, then a TT and the the sprint in Paris ( I believe all in 3 days) was just nuts.
Also in last years Tour he basically had the green jersey wrapped on day 1, it wasn't even in doubt.
And what someone else mentioned, he is also a great teammate, blowing the race up for Vingagard on one day, then single handedley dragging vingogard up one of the climbs and away from Pog on another stage etc... is just stuff of legends.
He does however need to win a few more monuments and rainbow jersey

Wout is 100% the better stage racer, and it's not even close. Van der Poel has yet to prove he can make it to the second week of a grand tour without being completely depleted, but Wout keeps winning stages all the way to the end.

Van der Poel seems to be the better one-day racer. They're both always marked riders, but VdP has a stronger acceleration which helps him make the moves, whereas Van Aert seems to have trouble getting away.

[shoota]

That's a great question. Historically I tend to like climber-types rather than sprinter-types, so when MVdP and WVA came up as rivals, I guess I just went with Wout. I've never disliked Mathieu. But it's not until his yellow jersey exploits and this MSR that I've really felt drawn to him as a fan.

If you're a fan, I can easily understand why.

Hmm, interesting. I don't consider either a sprinter. In fact, that's why I like them both, they can win from anywhere. There just aren't many guys like that and it makes for awesome racing.

[mhespenheide]

Hmm, interesting. I don't consider either a sprinter. In fact, that's why I like them both, they can win from anywhere. There just aren't many guys like that and it makes for awesome racing.

Both are all-arounders, but between the two of them, Mathieu is more of a sprinter and Wout is more of a climber. It's a false dichotomy, but when they came up as a pair, it felt natural to pick one of them to be a fan of and not the other. With a few more years of watching, I'm happy to be a fan of both of them.

[Hilltopwalters]

I would agree with Wout being the more all-around rider compared to MvdP. Part of the joy in the TdF was watching him do all of the things he did. I definitely want to see him win a WC and Roubaix. If nothing else, their rivalry is good sporting (and inspiration) for the rest of us.

[KonaSS]

I like both MvDP and Wout. No need to choose.

But head to head I prefer MvDP to win, because he usually wins in a more spectacular fashion. Where Wout is just gonna out - watt you.

[crankles]

Wout is 100% the better stage racer, and it's not even close. Van der Poel has yet to prove he can make it to the second week of a grand tour without being completely depleted, but Wout keeps winning stages all the way to the end.

Van der Poel seems to be the better one-day racer. They're both always marked riders, but VdP has a stronger acceleration which helps him make the moves, whereas Van Aert seems to have trouble getting away.

To me, It's all by design. Wout transitioned to the road sooner than MVdP and to a road oriented team with road ambitions. He's successful at it since that's where his training has focused. Mathieu went to a much smaller team that would allow his MTB ambition. Alpecin couldn't even get a bid to the tour his first year, no?

So comparing the two in stage races is like trying to compare them in MTB races.

When it comes to one days, Mathieu has the advantage Mano-a mano, and probably for the reasons you describe. Wout needs to win flat like Cancellera of old. Get away and TT it to the finish. If he gets a gap, he's not going to be caught without help if at all. He just can't get away as easily as Maybe Mathieu. but if he can, he's going to be harder to reel in the Mathieu would be...

He won MSR when he was able to latch on to alaphilipe, who just doens't have 200 meter efforts at 1500 gajillion watts.

[Beldar77]

No need to choose as a few have said. that top 4 was great. Throw in pidcock and Roglic ( who does have an LBL victory in a sprint) and it would be great.

But maybe an outsider that I think most enjoy. I love the season Powless has started, including 6th at MSR, and he did win San Sebestian

[sparky33]

I like both MvDP and Wout. No need to choose.


...and both make a rivalry that is fun to watch. They make each other better.

[tv_vt]

...and both make a rivalry that is fun to watch. They make each other better.

Agreed. A la Boonen/Cancellara, Federer/Nadal,...