Fitting Atrocity/Dilema

[Bill Bove]

A friend of mine just bought his wife a new bike. A Litespeed Ghiselo. he went all out on it, full Dura Ace and a sweet set of Dave Thomas's best wheels. Not at all a cheap bike, especially when you factor in that he not only paid a buck and a half for the fitting but he also flew the fitter in from Las Vegas.
Here's the bad part. He has her saddle pushed all the way forward on it's rails, the zero setback post is at the extreme back of the saddle and he has an eight centimeter stem up front. I will post a picture when I get one. There is no way I will ever be convinced that this a proper fit. No way. That's the atrocity, here's the dilema. They did not buy the bike from me. Hubby met this "fitter" while on a business trip two years ago and became convinced that this guy knew the "secret" so he called him on the phone to set an appointment for her fitting. Only problem is she hates to fly and refused to go to Las Vegas. Turns out the fitter and his wife had a family thing to attend in Orlando so he agreed to come down to West Palm if my buddy bought the frame and gruppo from him and paid his airfare to Florida for the fitting. Now I'm afraid that if I say anything about how badly I think my friends got screwed it will sound like sour grapes, but I gag when I look at this bike and I ride with her a lot.
So what do I do?

[shinomaster]

Who sold him the frame? Did the fitter do the best he could with the frame, or did he sell it to them and recommend that frame?

[tiger]

I think "Dear Abby" would say to remain quiet on the issue unless the owner asks specifically for your comment. That's generally best.

I'd suggest silence except if there was something truly unsafe I'd point it out. For example, if the bend of the seat rails is right at the clamp contact, it could cause stress leading to seat rail failure (had it hapen to a friend).

It's tough to remain silent when you see something that's just plain not right and you really want to say something about it. But remember, this person has a huge financial and emotional investment in this 'unconventional' set up, and there may be little benefit to pointing out that he may have made a big mistake.

[Bill Bove]

He wanted the model and trusted the fitter, the fitter took the initial measurements over the phone and recomended the stock small frame, as a Litespeed dealer he was aware of their custom program but chose to "fit" her to the stock frame. I refuse to believe that a properly fitted bike would look like this. Any hack can push a seat forward and stick a short stem on a bike with too long a toptube on a 300 dollar bike to make it fit a kid who will grow into it in a season but when you take eight freaking thousand and bloody airfare from a customer... it makes me want to puke.

[J.Greene]

The wife's neck, back, shoulders, and bum will be the judge and jury here atmo.

JG

[Fivethumbs]

I would not say anything now because it might do more harm than good. I would let her ride around on it a while and see what happens. If she is comfortable and happy then I guess everything is cool. Maybe she'll ride more, which may cause her to want to stretch out more (it did for me). If that's the case then she'll probably need to move the saddle back and buy longer stem. If she is not happy, and she voices it to you, then tell her your were noticing that maybe the fit is not ideal. She could always sell the frame and get a custom Litespeed. Just my $.02.

[Bill Bove]

I should clarify a little here, she is a very fit competitive rider. At 55 years old she can make guys half her age suffer. She does Pilates and yoga on a regular basis, several times a week. We are not talking about a week end recreational rider.

I'm not going to say anything, like I said I really can't but I want to wear a shirt that says "I didn't sell her this" when we ride.

[Len J]

I should clarify a little here, she is a very fit competitive rider. At 55 years old she can make guys half her age suffer. She does Pilates and yoga on a regular basis, several times a week. We are not talking about a week end recreational rider.

I'm not going to say anything, like I said I really can't but I want to wear a shirt that says "I didn't sell her this" when we ride.

tough situation.........any chance he/she will realize it's wrong and say something to you, opening up the conversation?

Sometimes you have to let peope make their own mistakes.

Len

[stevep]

sounds like a real drag...for both of you.

i had to learn to let these go and i still do.
not my mistake. not possible for me to fix.
shrug the shoulders...

at some point the subject will come up i bet.
wait until then.

[Peter P.]

You don't offer your opinion unless asked. I don't care whether you have more experience than the fitter who was flown in. The customer chose to go somewhere else than to you for "expertise" in fitting his wife; sounds like he had more money than brains. He and his wife will have to live with the decision.

When the wife and/or her husband begin to complain TO YOU about fit problems regarding her bike, then you can show them how you think she can't obtain a proper position on this bike and offer a solution. But I would give them ZERO discount for not only going elsewhere and not trusting YOU, but to show them how costly it is to make unwise decisions.

It's the stingy man that pays the most.

[TAW]

If she rides competitively, she'll start to see from other good riders how her fit is different from theirs, and if you have a good relationship with her, she'll ask your opinion eventually. Then she'll be ready to hear it, as well.

[shinomaster]

Does she like the bike?

[Ginger]

When she complains of leaning forward on soft tissue and that the bike is squirrly in corners, tell her that it's because her stem is too short and the tt is too long and she's not balanced on the bike.

When they ask you why you didn't say anything when you first saw the bike: "You were happy with the bike and it wasn't my business. Now you're not, it's still not my business...but this is why you have the problems you do."

Until then. Don't say a word.

Nothing you can do until they want it done... (In other words: What Stevep said!)

[Climb01742]

how different is the new position from her previous fit?

agree that silence now is the only option. but after a few rides maybe open the door with a casual...how's the new bike? see if she opens up.

[Kevan]

her honeymoon with her bike will wear off.

[bostondrunk]

Bill,

Do you want me to call her and tell her??? :) :beer:

I'm guessing the husband is not a rider? As someone else mentioned, if she is fairly experienced, she'll likely notice how ridiculous it looks compared to other riders bikes.

Hope yer enjoying the sunshine down there......grrrr

[saab2000]

Other than how the components on the bike actually look, how does SHE look on the bike?

As much as I am not an apologist for the crappy fitting, could it be that the bike itself is not the right size for her proportions?

Just sayin'....

[inGobwetrust]

I would wait until the subject comes up (and it will) and then just send them the link to this thread. It will tell them everything they need to know.

[chuckred]

You say the fitter is from out of town... did he actually set the bike up or was it shipped and then put together.. in other words, is it really set up the way the fitter intended and did he see her on it?

[stevep]

im guessing the guy took some numbers on the phone, ordered the bike to be delivered and then went out to do the final fit.
my also guess is that when he met the customer with the bike all paid for and sitting there wwaiting for the final touches...
his head said..." oh, shiite, what do i do now?"
and he came up with a poor solution...saddle jammed forward, teeny stem, bad fit.
easier that biting it and saying...
"know what? this bike does not work... i have to get another one..."

all speculation... but thats my guess.

[shinomaster]

im guessing the guy took some numbers on the phone, ordered the bike to be delivered and then went out to do the final fit.
my also guess is that when he met the customer with the bike all paid for and sitting there wwaiting for the final touches...
his head said..." oh, shiite, what do i do now?"
and he came up with a poor solution...saddle jammed forward, teeny stem, bad fit.
easier that biting it and saying...
"know what? this bike does not work... i have to get another one..."

all speculation... but thats my guess.

Probably...Is it too late to return it?

[Too Tall]

Wow Bill, that's a real mess. Back away from the table bro. Sometimes the process of finding your way to good advice is littered with mistakes some costly. Best thing you can do is remain available to help if asked.

[BumbleBeeDave]

When she complains of leaning forward on soft tissue and that the bike is squirrly in corners, tell her that it's because her stem is too short and the tt is too long and she's not balanced on the bike.

When they ask you why you didn't say anything when you first saw the bike: "You were happy with the bike and it wasn't my business. Now you're not, it's still not my business...but this is why you have the problems you do."

Until then. Don't say a word.

Nothing you can do until they want it done... (In other words: What Stevep said!)

Give her some time. You never know. There's always the possibility that (Gasp!) she may be perfectly happy with the bike and enjoy it immensely. Try not to let it bother you so much, Bill. You've been there for them before. You're there for them now if they need you and ask. Not a lot more you can do without looking bad. You've done the best you could.

BBD

[djg]

What you should do is be there for your friends if they ask for your help. Sometimes, keeping your mouth shut is the better part of valor. It's not pretty, but it's not your fault, and it's not your problem.

[mwos]

Bill,

What you find as "odd" I find perfectly normal. Even with 74-75 degree STA all my bikes are set up exactly the way you describe, including my Ottrott which is custom. Being a small woman with a short femur and short arms I would be way too stretched out if my bikes were setup according to the norm. Actually, for years my bikes were fit according to your standards and I was miserable.

And I agree with the others who posted, let time tell. If she's as good a rider as you say, and the setup is wrong, she'll be asking questions and making changes.

Kathi

[gt6267a]

bill -- this thread has been up for a few days. any interaction with the friend? any word on whether she likes / dislikes the bike?

[mosca]

Just wondering, do you feel that her fit is wrong in terms of position, or possibly that the bike won't handle properly due to the setup? I hate a badly-proportioned bike as much as the next so-called-expert, but things like STA, saddle setback, and stem length are not critical in and of themselves - are you sure we're not just talking aesthetics here? (and if we are, bring on the pictures so we can have some fun! :D )