Learning to ride at a steady pace

[Climb01742]

i recently noticed something about how i ride (it's how i run too.) i tend to ride hard, then back off, ride hard, back off, ride hard...and so on. i max, then recover, max, recover.

my best guess is that this is from my track days. i was a sprinter. in practice, we ran 220 repeats, or 440 repeats. run hard, jog, run hard, jog, and so on. max, recover.

i've never really learned how to ride at a steady high pace. how might i get better at this? should i be guided by a HRM? are there good drills for learning how to hold a steady pace? and are there specific ones for climbing? a max/recover style of riding works ok on normal climbs, but on longer, tougher ones, being able to find a high, sustainable pace would be better.

any suggestions greatly appreciated.

[Andreu]

..........who can ride at 24 mph for 80 miles and sit on their wheel.
A

[Russ]

....The impact of the LUNGS on a ride. Sorry, not that topic again!

NOTE (after reading other's posts): Did you mean steady only... or FAST and STEADY? My advise is for the later...

My quick advise:

The best thing to do is LONG intervals... But start slow, ok? I mean, unless you have a very solid aerobic base, I would not go into long intervals right away. Start with 2-3 minute intervals, or try to climb hills at a steady pace, that are not longer that one 1/2 mile or so. For long intrevals, I mean, up to 10 minutes intervals. Motor pacing is also excellent! But this is a bit more difficult to do and dangerous, if you don't do it with someone that knows what they are doing...

A HRM is a MUST tool, but it would be good if you know what your actual HR data is; this is you MAX HR, your AT, etc. Get a stress test at a local University if you can. For the purpose intended, I don't think there is a need for a Power Meter.

What distances did you run? I was a distance runner in HS, college and after... We used to do long intervals too, but they were monster sessions of 4x1 mile or 3x1 mile. But that was latter in the season. At the beginning it was not so intense.

I believe, there has been several posts on this forum on this regard, so I'd do a search.

;)

[Sandy]

Climb,

The way that you describe how you ride is precisely the way in which I normally ride. I have been told over and over by so many that by riding in that manner, in a group ride, you simply waste your energy and you will pay dearly for it, later in the ride.

On Saturday's ride, I rode much diffferently than I almost always do. I rode, for me, a much steadier pace, very rarely really pushing too hard. There was almost no fast accelerations or pushes. I tried to ride in a much steadier manner. I had plenty of muscle and cariovascular fitness for the entire ride, and had a reasonable amount left, at the end of the ride.

On Sunday's ride, I rode a lot more like I normally do, not in the beginning of the ride, but towards the end. I was staying towards the back of the group to be with the slower few riders, but would spring ahead a little and then slow down and wait for them. When you, Len, Smiley,..., tookk the right turn by the water and headed for the bridge, I saw your group up ahead and decided to chase, thinking that we would stop at that store right before the bridge, but then the First Mate started riding up the hill quite quickly and everyone took off. From that pointon, I was pushing to keep close to you and Len, on the way back. So because I was behind and had to work to first catch up with the group, and then had to continue working hard to stay with (or remain close) to you and Len, I had worked longer at a sustained high effort level. It would have been more efficient and less tiring to have just rideen more steadily all along, as I did Saturday.

I think the way we ride helps build power, leg speed, and an ability to ride at a little higher average speed, since we are really doing little intervals, when we ride like that, but for a given group ride, we are not riding very efficiently or wisely when we do that. My style of riding Saturday and Sunday were quite different. They were both fum, but certainly different. Saturday's style was certainly more efficient and energy saving.


Sandy

[Russ]

How could you have found time to ride when you could not get away from the forum? :eek:

Do you ride with a laptop computer or something?!!

[Elefantino]

OK, this is going to sound weird, but ...

Find a song. Seriously. In your head. (Don't wear headphones.) If you find a song with a good beat and keep it going in your head, you'll find yourself pedaling at a steadier cadence. Try it. It works.

Just don't get something stuck in your head like the Barney song. Then you're screwed.

[dbrk]

I ride mostly by myself, this is a feature of living in the boondocks, being just a few postage stamps from Ted's notions of sociability, and having a schedule that allows me the best times of the day (when most decent folk are working). Steady pace riding is, as it were, my forte if I can be said to have one at all. I have two suggestions, one being a variation on Elephantino's not-at-all crazy idea (since mine is bit more outlandish...).
The first is simple enough: _the_ masters of steady pace riding are randonneurs. These gentelfolk usually think that anything less than 80 miles is not worth the effort to put on your gear and their secret to endurance and longevity is steady as the tortoise. There are LOTS of randonneurs in yer neck of the woods though unfortunately too many imho have lost the spirit of steady and calm for the RAAM-style of hammering. Still find some folks who maintain the Old Ways and you will have some company that provides a great incentive to follow.
Second is my variation of Elephantino's fine notion. However, rather than use a song I suggest a "chant" or what we call namasamkirtana. Get yerself or let me get for you one of the really fun CDs of Krishna Das and in no time at all yer hammering away to the names of Siva, Hanuman, or Krishna. This isn't at all a religious matter, unless you take it to be one, but rather a way of creating a kind of mental tamboura. Tamboura is the so-called "drone" instrument of Indian music: it creates a template for thinking, for allowing the mind to find a rhythm with the body and heart, it actually frees you up by giving the mind the effects of mantra but without the indrawn consequences (viz, of feeling apart from the body). When you sing along with the call and response of the chants in your head you find that the cycling body just flows into a cadence. Sure, it can flip people (including yourself) out to think that here you are, a perfectly normal fella' chaning Hari Krsna Hari Ram but heck, it really is musically fun and very, very effective for creating this template of rhythmic cadence. You'll find that the body just hums away with the chant and that your mind isn't really chanting, it's actually all freed up to think, to wander, to play, to do whatever you like. I'm tellin' ya', this works. I would have nothing to do with it if it didn't work. I positively hate mystical gobblygook and chanting has nothing to do with that: it's a way of creating a disciplined ease of mind and body. The best of the chanters is imo my good pal Krishna Das, better known as KD, yet another whiteguylikeme from the suburbs of NYC who found his way to India those many years ago. It's the key to long distance cadence riding.

dbrk

[Too Tall]

Add cadence to your quiver of cycling tools. Cateye makes a model (Astrale). It is very reliable and out of fashion eg. CHEAP! Begin to notice cadence and tell us your observations in a while. Just for giggles, see if you can hold a "steady" 85-100 rpms during your ride....except at stoplights.

DBRK better QUIT layin' kudos on Randoneurs ;) It's making my USCF aspirations all that much harder....from an Rando in hiatus.

[Ray]

Second is my variation of Elephantino's fine notion. However, rather than use a song I suggest a "chant" or what we call namasamkirtana. Get yerself or let me get for you one of the really fun CDs of Krishna Das and in no time at all yer hammering away to the names of Siva, Hanuman, or Krishna. This isn't at all a religious matter, unless you take it to be one, but rather a way of creating a kind of mental tamboura. Tamboura is the so-called "drone" instrument of Indian music: it creates a template for thinking, for allowing the mind to find a rhythm with the body and heart, it actually frees you up by giving the mind the effects of mantra but without the indrawn consequences (viz, of feeling apart from the body). When you sing along with the call and response of the chants in your head you find that the cycling body just flows into a cadence.

Funny how different people are wired differently. I've never been fer**** at chanting or meditating based on a chant (although I can sometimes manage it just through breathing in rhythm). Thus, I can't see this approach being of help to me on a bicycle. Ironically, though, the very act of riding a bicycle CREATES this same "mental tamboura" that Douglas refers to.

I too, ride solo quite a bit, and there are days when I find it a struggle to find my rhythm. But on most longer days (anything about 3 hours or more of riding) I tend to fall into a rhythm that just takes over and the miles melt away beneath my Michelins. There's an element of trance to it - I'm still acutely alert to traffic, to birds and squirells and other cyclists, but the act of riding the bike, shifting gears, getting in and out of the saddle, leaning into curves, varying my cadence, etc, fades into the background to an extent that I barely even notice hills (unless they get really steep and I really have to WORK to get up them). Its the nicest feeling and I've never gotten to this place any way other than cycling. And it sometimes RESULTS in music or chants working their way into my consciousness and hanging out for a while - but they're the effect rather than the cause.

None of this results in particularly high speeds - my occasional encounters and attempts to hang onto the back of the pack with local racers yank me right out of this trance state and create a sense of real urgency where the cycling comes right back to the foreground - smacks me right in the face, as it were. But it's a really lovely meditative state of mind and a BIG reason I like riding as much as I do. And despite my detachment from the cycling, I'm pretty sure I maintain a real even speed or at least a real even effort level during these times.

This, of course, will be of no use to Climb or anyone else who's looking for help getting to a more even-keeled riding style from a naturally more frenetic style. Douglas's post just struck me as kind of funny because I'm so much the opposite. In fact, I sometimes wish I had tricks to force myself to up the intensity and vary my riding more. And yet, I like it so much when I fall into that rhythm that I can't see seriously trying to change it.

-Ray

[Spinner]

agree with too tall; monitoring cadence will make you a steady eddy. some studies have shown that a cadence around 90 is optimal for energy efficiency.

[vaxn8r]

i've never really learned how to ride at a steady high pace. how might i get better at this? should i be guided by a HRM? are there good drills for learning how to hold a steady pace? and are there specific ones for climbing? a max/recover style of riding works ok on normal climbs, but on longer, tougher ones, being able to find a high, sustainable pace would be better.

any suggestions greatly appreciated.


IMHO, I first recommend ditching the HRM. The HRM is one of the surest methods to be all over the map on your speed. I've never understood why so many people use these things.

Secondly, do use your computer, find a speed where you're working it, but not blowing up, and hold that speed....for miles, hold that speed even on the overpasses and longer shallow inclines, you can then back off on the downhill slope for a brief recovery but then get right back on it. If you're going up over something steep the same thing applies. Set a speed as your goal (realistic) and do not let yourself drop below it. This is the problem with HRM, people look at them and think they're going over their "limit" and they never push past what they are really capable of.

Finally, try to do some of your rides faster than a certain predetermined average speed. This forces you to stay on task.

You'll build power and stamina at the same time and your buddies will love drafting off you because you're steady and fast. ;)

[csb]

i rather agree with the little packaderms' musical answer,
for me a chorus abstracted from the whole song is the usual.

the faster i goes the more i needs it.

[Russ]

....I first recommend ditching the HRM. The HRM is one of the surest methods to be all over the map on your speed. I've never understood why so many people use these things....

Hey Vax,

I am not going to disagree with you, because I think we all do what's best for us.

But, let me expand on this: I feel that if I am guiding myself on speed rather than my HR, I will be going too hard (or not hard enough, when I need to). This eventually would lead me to fatigue and back to what Climb was doing in the first place....

However, I think I may be inclined to ride hard almost all the time, if I go by speep alone... This is what happened to me earlier this year. I was trying to keep my usual, steady pace of 19-22 mph, all the time and ignored my HRM. By doing this I also ignored how tired I was, or how windy it was at times.... A few months later, I felt I was getting fried and I had to back off for a while.

By monitoring my HR again, I forced myself to stay at a constant effort, which is what I think matters, rather than a constant speed... Remember, this is the reason why one should know their max HR and then establish training zones.

However, I am not a slave or the HRM. By now, I can alsmot feel where my HR is at a certain speed; but I still glance at my HRM, especially when the wind picks up or I get to an overpass, just to keep things in order....

[93legendti]

Speed, effort and heart rate. Keep them consistent and steady and you will do fine. The 2 guys in our group who can't ride steady and "surge" all the time are the only guys who have caused the crashes in our group the last 10 years... they are asleep on their bikes.

[vaxn8r]

I hear you...I probably overreacted to what I feel is overdependence on the HRM as a training tool. Specifically, being afraid to go out of a target range.

You do have to account for wind and hills and sometimes you just know you're not going to hit your goals. I suppose you could also do a group ride, faster than you're comfortable with but not so fast you're off the back. That could work too. Now that I think about it, fast group rides force you to ride a more constant speed. Yeah, do more of those if you can.

Also, I only meant to do some rides this way. You still need climbing and speed work and some days to just ride around. Anyway, it's all just what I've found to be good.

[zap]

Keep it simple. The most important thing is to find a group that rides at a hard steady pace that you will have a tough time hanging with initially. A good mid week group ride is critical as well.

Might be hard to find said group(s) but try different ones.

[jeffg]

My first thought is why do you yo-yo? Are you going too hard and then recovering? Just bored and need to find a meditative state? In terms of training, steady pace comes from medium paced riding (below LTHR, roughly 80-89% of your LTHR watts or HR). From what I have been told, riding in this range (once you have a good base) teaches you to be more efficient, burning fat (instead of glycogen), and allowing you to ride longer at the upper end of your aerobic range (think domestiques blocking the wind for the GC favorites during the TdF). Long intervals in this range do not burn like 2X20s, but you will feel drained and need to recover all the same. In terms of cadence, this intensity is also good for cadence excercises. Since I don't have an SRM, I like doing some cadence work on my trainer in ergometer mode. You set the watts, and then the machine maintains that resistance irrrespective of the cadence (minimum 50 rpm, max 180 rpm). You can really see how changing cadence effects perceived effort, muscle burn, HR, etc. Anyway, you certainly don't need anything fancy to ride steady at faster yet still aerobic levels, and if I don't watch out the good Dr. is going to sneak up on me and take blood samples for his Accusport. Just remember riding at higher cadences at any real effort takes time and some structure.

Good luck! :banana:

[Len J]

using a heart rate monitor to maintain a steady effort, not steady speed. The key for me in riding long steady effort rides is to maintain my heartrate (Which is a measure of effort) within a 10 beat range for the entire ride. This is harder than it may seem because there are times in the ride when you will be going slower (Into the wind or uphill) and times where you will have to work at a high speed to keep your heartrate up (Down wind or down hill).

It helps me to go out with a plan and stick to it.

Len

[vaxn8r]

But Len, isn't this is the exaxct opposite of what he's trying to accomplish?

I understood that he wanted steady, fast speed, not steady HR/effort. So to do that he has to find a heart rate where he can hammer and still have some room to jam up an incline or face a headwind without slowing down all the time. You have to let your heart rate adjust to your efforts at keeping your speed a constant. Trying to do that with a monitor would drive me crazy...unless maybe you can find a place to ride which has no wind and is perfectly flat.

[ericmurphy]

I'm not only Not Too Fast In the Hills; I'm not too fast in general. But I do maintain a steady pace. Hard to be sure when generally the serious hills are in the second half of my rides, but generally I finish up within a mile an hour of where I was at the half-way point.

But here are some observations I'd like some comments about. Keep in mind that I'm 42 years old, 6 feet/185, and have ridden about 10,000 miles in the last 24 months.

I generally aim to train with my average HR between 145 and 150 BPM. On a nice hard four-hour ride, my average HR will usually be 150-155 BPM. A more relaxed ride might see an average of 145 BPM.

My maximum HR as recorded by two different HRMs (Polar S-210s) is at least 239 BPM, but could be higher since the S-210 maxes at 240. Does this seem crazy to you? It does to me too, but as I said, two different HRMs have given the same results. My max HR exceeds 200 BPM probably on two rides out of ten, and seems to correlate well (but not perfectly) with maximum effort.

I don't generally sustain these ridiculous maxes for long periods of time, but often my HR will exceed 185 BPM for several minutes on a hard ride. I doubt it stays above 220 BPM for more than a few seconds at a time, though.

My aerobic capacity seems to far outstrip my strength. I've never done a Max HR or VO2 max test (I'm hoping to get one done one of these days), but I can say that no matter how hard an effort I exert, I never really feel winded after a long, hard ride. My quads will be killing me, I'll be physically exhausted, but never breathing hard. Even long hard descents don't seem to get me breathing that hard, nor do I ever really pant.

I ran a 5K last fall, the first running I'd really done in about five years. I did one (yes, one) practice run of three miles a week before the race. I turned 9:13 miles, which certainly isn't very exciting, and I definitely didn't want to run any further, but I noticed as soon as I stopped running, I wasn't even breathing hard (I also noticed that my HR never got above about 170, which would be low for equivalent effort on a bike).

So it would appear my heart and lungs are in pretty good shape (my GP concurs). But I definitely don't have the strength to be a fast rider, especially in the hills. Does this mean I need to hit the weights to improve my performance? God, I hope not...