Bad move by the Big S?

[72gmc]

https://www.velonews.com/news/gravel/adventure-no-more-specialized-ends-contracts-with-dozens-of-paid-ambassadors/

At least they're not cutting whoever runs their bar tape division ...

[EB]

PON/Santa Cruz just dumped Josh Lewis as well https://www.pinkbike.com/news/josh-lewis-parts-ways-with-santa-cruz.html

We're going to see a lot more cost-cutting in 2023, hold on to your butt.

[catchourbreath]

I mean that sucks for the individuals however getting a salary to ride around on bike packing trips multiple times a year for a number of years would seem like a count your lucky stars for however long it lasts situation. To me it seems like on the edge of worth the return for thebcompany. I can see racing teams or pros getting product and money for results or whatever but how on earth does one camping in the woods show anything for it? I guess that's influencer culture?

[benb]

Influencer culture is kind of huge.

A good influencer can be way better for the sponsors than lots of the guys on the Pro Tour.

You can win races and not be good at making money for your sponsors. It's always been a thing even before social media. Just say stupid things when the journalists stick the mic in your face after your win. Forget to praise your sponsors. Get caught not using the sponsors products in public, etc..

It may very well be the influencers/ambassadors just weren't getting the job done for Specialized's brand though.

Look at this place. In aggregate it's an influencer. And it largely influences people to look down on Specialized. Big S would probably hence never sponsor this forum.

It'll be interesting if we really hit a recession if it hits consumer spending hard and influencers take a haircut. It doesn't seem a given though, and the big ones will survive right through it.

All this stuff is stupid though. The bike companies got 2 years of windfalls and now they're crying foul? Something was mismanaged. Maybe they grew too much or hired too many people, or blew a lot of the extra revenue on compensation. They weren't paying enough attention if they thought it was a permanent increase in sales.

[Mikej]

I don’t even know who these people are-

[Elefantino]

The bike companies got 2 years of windfalls and now they're crying foul? ... They weren't paying enough attention if they thought it was a permanent increase in sales.

Closer to the truth than one might realize.

[spoonrobot]

We have hit a recession and consumer spending has taken a huge hit. Look at BF/CM numbers - huge decline from PY but somewhat masked by inflation. This program has been going on since 2016 and it's arguable if it's done anything other than generate likes - with one exception.

There's a reason they kept Lael Wilcox and essentially nobody else.

It also seems this was someone else's baby and the new C-suite members are cutting off old programs so they can implement their own projects that generate their own career boosting metrics. Forecasting for 2023/2024 is a disaster, the personal fitness bust is here and despite strong sales in some sectors of the bicycle industry we're well below trend for pre-COVID.

There's a lot more bloodletting to come.

[Red Tornado]

I don’t even know who these people are-

Ditto

[earlfoss]

No loss, really. The influencer thing is not a sustainable job. Whether agreements end or a company pulls the plug on the whole program all involved had to know it couldn't last forever.

[benb]

Lael Wilcox is like 100x the star most of these others were/are. I had not heard of the others either.

[rice rocket]

No loss, really. The influencer thing is not a sustainable job. Whether agreements end or a company pulls the plug on the whole program all involved had to know it couldn't last forever.

It's a bit snide to call them influencers, they are no different IMO and probably ride just as much (if not more) than the professional athletes, they're just not competing at UCI events. It's just a different segment of the market they're looking to garner the eyeballs of.

[benb]

No loss, really. The influencer thing is not a sustainable job. Whether agreements end or a company pulls the plug on the whole program all involved had to know it couldn't last forever.

Well who knows.

Some of them make enough money if they are intelligent they can put it away and be well set.

Of course maybe they spend too much of the money when times are good and get in trouble. Maybe Big S knows something about that? ;)

It wouldn't surprise if there were some really fat bonuses at Specialized HQ the last couple years. Good on you if you got one but that was probably foolish.

[prototoast]

I don’t even know who these people are-

Lael Wilcox was the only name mentioned that I recognized, and the article said Specialized wanted to retain her just under a different name.

I'm sure it sucks for these people, but it's a niche role, and it wouldn't surprise me if the ROI was negative for most of them.

All this stuff is stupid though. The bike companies got 2 years of windfalls and now they're crying foul? Something was mismanaged. Maybe they grew too much or hired too many people, or blew a lot of the extra revenue on compensation. They weren't paying enough attention if they thought it was a permanent increase in sales.

I don't think this is necessarily the case. If you assume there's going to be a macro-driven temporary surge in demand, is there any reason to think that the optimal strategy isn't to expand and then contract?

Obviously, some companies like Saris blew up, and Wahoo and The Pros Closet look like they could be next, but I don't see any evidence that Specialized is actually in a bad difficult financial situation. From the article, it sounds like the management simply reviewed their brand ambassador program and concluded it didn't offer a high enough return.

[AngryScientist]

I have often wondered how these influencer/ambassador arrangements work, and generally think it's a pretty slimy way of garnering interest for a huge mega-brand like Specialized. Instead of hiring more marketing professionals, making the Specialized employees, paying them well including benefits, they hire young good looking people to hashtag them on their instagram lifestyle. I wonder how much $$ these "salaries" were?

Ambassador/influencer programs make a lot of sense for me for smaller companies looking to get some attention without having big marketing budgets.

This bit also confuses me:

Last week, Sarah Swallow was bikepacking through a rural stretch of Baja California Sur when she got the call: Specialized was terminating her contract that ran through December 2023, effective immediately.

Why on earth would Spec issue multi-year contracts with ambassadors? And what good are contracts that can be broken at any time, other than to provide said influencer with a false sense of security as they bikepack through nowhere?

[72gmc]

Personally, I think the company could use (and probably has used) the value these people create given the product spaces they're leaning into. I can't speak to whether this is smart for their business right now but I suspect it's pennies against dollars blown elsewhere.

I also think terminating contracts before they expire--especially contracts that are this not-large, even when multiplied by tens of influencers--is a bad look that can stick to a company for a long time.

[Upcountry]

It in a bit crazy that some of these people were getting monthly salaries(albeit not a living wage), when you compare it to the low end of even a World-Tour pro cyclist who makes only $60K US per year, racing 80+ days, and busting their ass year round.

With that said, I knew all the names on the list... hahaha. I met Steve Fassbinder(aka Doom of RepublicOfDoom) ten years ago, and he was kind enough to put me up at his place in Durango for the weekend prior to our CTR adventure. One of the most gutsy and adventurous dudes out there. He'd frequently head out into the Utah desert with 90 pounds of gear strapped to his fat-bike, float down a river in a packraft, climb an unclimbed spire, then ride 200 miles back to his truck. With that said, its impossible to track what kind of return on investment their getting from him, if any.

My first thought when I read the headline was, "What about Lael?"... So it's good to see that they are at least aware of how valuable/talented she is.

[C40_guy]

I was all set to go back to school and get my Masters in "Influencer".

Now I'm rethinking that move. Might have to stick with making money the old fashioned way - bitcoin mining.

[BobbyJones]

There’s a distinction between an ambassador and an influencer.

These folks fall in the ambassador category- much like a sponsored athlete.

It's a bit snide to call them influencers, they are no different IMO and probably ride just as much (if not more) than the professional athletes, they're just not competing at UCI events. It's just a different segment of the market they're looking to garner the eyeballs of.

[davidb]

Ditto
Oh, how you made me laugh. You are so right. People confuse "likes," "clicks," and "views" with dollars sold. If ROI were there, these positions would still be. As a shop worker, I have never heard anyone make, base, or mention these people.

[pasadena]

What's the difference? Aren't they all 'influencers'?

There’s a distinction between an ambassador and an influencer.

These folks fall in the ambassador category- much like a sponsored athlete.

[benb]

You guys need to get with a reality check.

Pro Cycling is pretty much a rolling vehicle for in-person ads and has been for a really long time. The whole point is to make the sponsors money so they continue to pay into the sport so it can keep going. They have never had a sustainable business model without it. The teams can't even survive without constantly changing their name and sponsors.

World Tour racers are not that different than these people. If these people figured out a way to ride their bike and make more money for less physical pain and suffering than Pro Racers there's nothing wrong with that. It seems like a great deal. No different than Gravel. Do bike packing videos on Youtube and Instagram, nobody is forcing you to do bunch sprints into dangerous finishes and there are no officials and TV crews running you over with a motorcycle.

Influencer is just today's Independent Marketing Professional. Straight up, accept that and then you can watch whatever content you watch and at least be honest about what is going on.

Apparently the racers must still be more effective in bringing in the sponsor dollars though, or you'd hear about Specialized dropping race sponsorships first before influencers/ambassadors. I'm sure this is all bean counting and not anything about the noble nature of racing. The crowd that watches racing and fancies themselves as fast has probably always spent the big bucks more freely. People who watch a bike packer on Youtube are probably less likely to go buy a new $10k Specialized every year to keep up with the Jonses.

[carlucci1106]

IMO, there is a big distinction between a sponsored athlete and 'ambassador,' and a small distinction between an 'influencer' & 'ambassador.'

The sponsored athlete, if in the pro ranks is going to be sponsored, much like an international supermodel would be sponsored by, or have contracts with clothing and fashion brands/firms. The distinction is that the individual could be widely known before becoming an 'influencer.' You assume the UCI pro or most famous ultra-endurance cyclist would be courted by potential sponsors. The person who is out there having adventures, and happens to be good with social media, and a camera, not so much.

The old slogan "race Sunday, sell Monday" is Spesh' bread and butter. When I spent time at HQ, I thought the whole time, "this is a marketing company with a side hustle of selling bikes."

The pandemic certainly elucidated the fact that bike companies are good at the 'stoke (the marketing) and bike design, but clearly lacking in logistics and supply chain. Even the best of 'em, which I would say Specialized probably has few rivals. Even they made poor choices-- I would think the focus going forward is making smarter supply chain & logistics moves, and concentrate less on "bike nerd" stuff that their target market has had a heaping spoonful of for years. After all, we're always poo-pooing them for their constant marketing, and incessant product shortages, and dealer gouging, and D2Cing!

Get the product to the customer, and make it a good one. Mass Recession 2.0 is going to need that aspect, or they will contract. ATMO.

Technically, I'm only talking about the 'Promotion' side of Marketing 4 P's for all you marketing people, because supply chain is obviously part of marketing as a complete concept.

[reuben]

Oh, how you made me laugh. You are so right. People confuse "likes," "clicks," and "views" with dollars sold.
Eyeballs are what generate revenue, as demonstrated in the '90s.

[benb]

The Pro Racers are doing the same thing they just do a more Specialized (:rolleyes:) piece of the job, they just ride the bikes they don't have to setup the TV coverage.

The ambassador has to do the whole thing front to back.

You're just kidding yourself if you hold up almost any Pro Athlete versus an "Influencer" because you want to look down at the kiddies who watch the Influencers and pretend what you're doing is somehow more noble or valuable. The Racers are providing you with entertainment in the form of a race in exchange for you watching TV ads and reading the logos on their team kits and the barriers and banners and so on. The influencers provide you with an entertaining video in exchange for you having to listen to them plug some product and pretend they actually like it or use it.

I kind of feel like a lot of American-biased sports are like a teeny bit better here but not much. About the only thing they've held the line on is not putting the ads on their uniforms. And obviously US soccer skipped that completely and went right to advertising on the uniforms.

I'd still wear a Red Sox T-shift from time to time but I wouldn't be caught dead wearing a NE Revolution jersey with a giant United Health Care logo on it. United Health Care has probably gotten close to $100k of my money over the years and their customer service is horrific. No jersey for me unless they gave me a discount.

I mean this is kind of what Rapha's big innovation is.. providing nice clothing for cyclists that doesn't have ads all over it. Gotta give them credit for that.

[mstateglfr]

I was all set to go back to school and get my Masters in "Influencer".

Now I'm rethinking that move. Might have to stick with making money the old fashioned way - bitcoin mining.
Kudos for including bitcoin in this.

A couple months ago, I was on a bus with a HS girls volleyball program as I am one of the coaches. A 15yo who is really cool and 'one of the good ones' mentioned she is watching 'The Girls Next Door', which was a show about Hef and his ladies. She said when she is an adult she wants to either be like Kendra(of of Hef's girls) or become an influencer.

It took everything in me to not rant in response to that insane comment.
Shortly after, I saw that 1 in 4 Gen Z kids wants to become an influencer. That explained a lot- their reality on this is just a really warped perception.

[benb]

Don't worry I hate Specialized too, not defending them.

You'd think Specialized doesn't even need to sponsor racing either. They win just by being in every bike shop everywhere and doing all their typical shenanigans. The average cyclist will just keep buying Big S because chances are they walk in their LBS and it's the only easy choice.

[Mark McM]

Kudos for including bitcoin in this.

A couple months ago, I was on a bus with a HS girls volleyball program as I am one of the coaches. A 15yo who is really cool and 'one of the good ones' mentioned she is watching 'The Girls Next Door', which was a show about Hef and his ladies. She said when she is an adult she wants to either be like Kendra(of of Hef's girls) or become an influencer.

It took everything in me to not rant in response to that insane comment.
Shortly after, I saw that 1 in 4 Gen Z kids wants to become an influencer. That explained a lot- their reality on this is just a really warped perception.


When I was in high school, everyone wanted to be in a rock band and become the next "Rock Gods". The method of fame and exposure might change, but people don't.

[carlucci1106]

You're just kidding yourself if you hold up almost any Pro Athlete versus an "Influencer" because you want to look down at the kiddies who watch the Influencers and pretend what you're doing is somehow more noble or valuable.

I in no way was downgrading the work of the influencer, or attempting to compare the work they do, or say who was more deserving.

Just making a distinction as to what they mean to the company, ATMO. One is traditional, one is new-gen marketing. One is proven, one is not yet fully proven itself to work. As someone said, if it was proving to be lucrative, these folks would still have jobs.

I"m not saying the 'ambassadors' or whatever you want to call them aren't working hard for it, or being awesome. Quite the contrary. But if it doesn't put FRNs on the balance sheet...

[prototoast]

Kudos for including bitcoin in this.

A couple months ago, I was on a bus with a HS girls volleyball program as I am one of the coaches. A 15yo who is really cool and 'one of the good ones' mentioned she is watching 'The Girls Next Door', which was a show about Hef and his ladies. She said when she is an adult she wants to either be like Kendra(of of Hef's girls) or become an influencer.

It took everything in me to not rant in response to that insane comment.
Shortly after, I saw that 1 in 4 Gen Z kids wants to become an influencer. That explained a lot- their reality on this is just a really warped perception.

Also, every boy I knew growing up wanted to be a professional baseball/basketball/football player, and the other half wanted to be an actor or musician.

And half the girls wanted to be marine biologists or raise horses. The other half wanted to be actors or musicians.

It would be weird for a 15 year old to say "I want to be a patent lawyer" or "I want to be a health insurance claims processor." It's fine to educate kids about what real jobs are actually out there in the world, but it's totally normal for kids to dream. That's the beauty of being a kid. I wish I still aspirations.

[Wattvagen]

When I was in high school, everyone wanted to be in a rock band and become the next "Rock Gods". The method of fame and exposure might change, but people don't.

Agree with the above. No one in HS daydreams about being a dental hygienist or a very successful plumber. Flashy fun jobs always get more attention from young minds.

[Pegoready]

Obviously the way this was announced was pretty bad for publicity. And cutting contracts early is in bad form.

However I am shocked Specialized paid a salary to some of these people. Ty Hathaway seems like a great guy, and I follow him on social media, but he only has like 16k followers on Instagram and occasionally shows off a Specialized MTB amidst his pictures of trucks and pottery. The fact that he pulled a salary of $1500/month (plus free gear?) for 8 years is amazing. I think a lot of these people should consider themselves lucky the gravy train lasted as long as it did.

The article says Lael Wilcox is likely getting pulled into another division of Specialized sponsorship.

[jamesdak]

I was all set to go back to school and get my Masters in "Influencer".

Now I'm rethinking that move. Might have to stick with making money the old fashioned way - bitcoin mining.

:banana::banana::banana:

[72gmc]

Agree with the above. No one in HS daydreams about being a dental hygienist or a very successful plumber. Flashy fun jobs always get more attention from young minds.

I knew one kid who may not have dreamed, but knew he was going to be an orthodontist like his dad. He has offices in several locations today.

I wanted to be EVH, Scot Schmidt, or John Tomac. Oh for 3.

[Bruce K]

Contracts like these have plenty of “outs” - just look at pro football. Unless they are guaranteed contracts like baseball they can be broken.

The article says these folks were being paid enough to make ends meet in their lifestyle.

I have a cousin in marketing in CA and she was telling me that influencers who generate big numbers can earn mid 5 to 6 figure incomes. She’s in the business and even she doesn’t see tge value attached to some of these folks.

You have to look no further than the folks at “Jacka$$” to leave you scratching your head…

BK

[earlfoss]

I'm sure the big S is making more money than they ever have. I remember when I was looking for bike sponsors for my team, the Cervelo rep back then said they didn't do team deals, ambassadorships, etc. because sales were so good they didn't need to.

I'd wager the major bike companies did JUST FINE throughout the pandemic.

[54ny77]

Do those "influencers" really impact the purchasing decisions of the market well heeled enough to drop $10-$15k for a bike?

It's all about campaign effectiveness. Clearly, the program wasn't self sustaining.

But what the heck do I know. I just yell at clouds. :banana:

[John H.]

When you are sponsored by Specialized (either as an athlete, ambassador, or influencer), your days are always numbered.

Programs, budgets and mandates get changed from year to year. Also, people don't stay in those marketing jobs very long , and the new person usually wants to put their stamp on what is happening.

If you recall, one year they dumped both Todd Wells and Rebecca Rusch. Luminaries in the sport.

Doing good work is not enough to keep that support.

[Big Dan]

When there was no racing during the pandemic some of these cats kept the content going. I'm sure it helped a little.......

:cool:

[KarlC]

We have hit a recession and consumer spending has taken a huge hit. Look at BF/CM numbers - huge decline from PY but somewhat masked by inflation. This program has been going on since 2016 and it's arguable if it's done anything other than generate likes - with one exception.

There's a reason they kept Lael Wilcox and essentially nobody else.

It also seems this was someone else's baby and the new C-suite members are cutting off old programs so they can implement their own projects that generate their own career boosting metrics. Forecasting for 2023/2024 is a disaster, the personal fitness bust is here and despite strong sales in some sectors of the bicycle industry we're well below trend for pre-COVID.

There's a lot more bloodletting to come.

Everyone should be looking for ways to cut cost right now if they want to survive.

.

[Baron Blubba]

9/10 bike companies had best-ever years, by far, in 2020 and 2021. 9/10 bike shops experienced the same. The exceptions were mostly smaller and brand-new bike shops that got cut off (or never had accounts) from companies that cut out the little guys in order to feed the big ones. The reason given was the the little guys require almost as much clerical attention, and it just wasn't worth it in a time when the companies were overloaded with work already, and when their more dedicated dealers were in desperate need.

9/10 bike companies and dealers also over-projected significantly when planning for 2022. The shops realized it when business slowed waaaaaay down in autumn '22 (late Q3/early Q4). Bike companies realized it around that time, too --just as the long awaited major shipments of bread and butter bikes were finally arriving. Many of them convinced their dealers to panic buy anyway, saying that there would be shortages in '23 and that the bike frenzy would continue. Companies such as Specialized, Fuji, and Trek (among others), shoved previously-ordered product down the throats of dealers for whom all these bikes were too much, too late. There were threats to cut many dealers off if they didn't take these bikes--either explicit or implied.
Keep in mind that at this point, late '22/early '23, dealers were buying these bikes at full wholesale. Then, when companies like Specialized realized 'holy smokes, we are overloaded with bikes like never before and people have to get paid and we need warehouse space', they dropped their prices by 20-50% online, which didn't help dealers move any of their existing inventory --at least, not at profitable margins.
Specialized loves to use lingo like 'what makes sense for the rider' and 'what's best for the rider.' Nonsense. It always has been and always will be what's best for Specialized. If they were concerned about What's Best For The Rider, they wouldn't be obliquely trying to put LBS's out of business, and they wouldn't be telling The Rider how much they need bikes like that new $14k Diverge frankenbike.

That said, lots of dealers really screwed up in the transition from '21-'22. 2 years of undreamed of milk and honey caused them to overspend in their personal lives and in their businesses.
'22 was actually a very good year for many dealers compared to 2019 --not everyone, but a majority saw very strong growth. The problem was that even this good year didn't do much to put a dent in the massive investments they had made in anticipation of another once-in-a-lifetime year. Or, in some cases, the standards of living that they had raised themselves to.

In any case, the behavior of many companies in this climate is despicable. Specialized and Trek, et al, have the money and warehouse space to survive a year while things settle down. Many of their dealers, some who have been with them for decades, and without whom these big guys wouldn't be where they are today, are not capable of doing the same.

On the subject of sponsored athletes and ambassadors: This is no indictment whatsoever on the ambassadors themselves or their good fortune. They got paid to go ride bikes and have fun. Good for them.
However, I don't think what they are doing has much if any ROI. I've never once considered a buying a bike because someone else was riding it across the Continental Divide or something like that. If there is fat to be trimmed, this is certainly the outer layer.

[Matthew]

I so wanted to play in the NFL. Then I only grew to a staggering 5'8." My mom, bless her heart thought I could make it. I've been a Corrections officer for almost 32 years now and hope to place top ten in my Sport class mtb races. Not exactly the NFL lifestyle.

[Seramount]

I have yet to be influenced by an 'influencer'...

as far as I can tell, they're just another mope with an opinion.

[many_styles]

TLDR, but corporations are cutting their marketing budgets. As spending has drastically shrank. This is the result of it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[XXtwindad]

9/10 bike companies had best-ever years, by far, in 2020 and 2021. 9/10 bike shops experienced the same. The exceptions were mostly smaller and brand-new bike shops that got cut off (or never had accounts) from companies that cut out the little guys in order to feed the big ones. The reason given was the the little guys require almost as much clerical attention, and it just wasn't worth it in a time when the companies were overloaded with work already, and when their more dedicated dealers were in desperate need.

9/10 bike companies and dealers also over-projected significantly when planning for 2022. The shops realized it when business slowed waaaaaay down in autumn '22 (late Q3/early Q4). Bike companies realized it around that time, too --just as the long awaited major shipments of bread and butter bikes were finally arriving. Many of them convinced their dealers to panic buy anyway, saying that there would be shortages in '23 and that the bike frenzy would continue. Companies such as Specialized, Fuji, and Trek (among others), shoved previously-ordered product down the throats of dealers for whom all these bikes were too much, too late. There were threats to cut many dealers off if they didn't take these bikes--either explicit or implied.
Keep in mind that at this point, late '22/early '23, dealers were buying these bikes at full wholesale. Then, when companies like Specialized realized 'holy smokes, we are overloaded with bikes like never before and people have to get paid and we need warehouse space', they dropped their prices by 20-50% online, which didn't help dealers move any of their existing inventory --at least, not at profitable margins.
Specialized loves to use lingo like 'what makes sense for the rider' and 'what's best for the rider.' Nonsense. It always has been and always will be what's best for Specialized. If they were concerned about What's Best For The Rider, they wouldn't be obliquely trying to put LBS's out of business, and they wouldn't be telling The Rider how much they need bikes like that new $14k Diverge frankenbike.

That said, lots of dealers really screwed up in the transition from '21-'22. 2 years of undreamed of milk and honey caused them to overspend in their personal lives and in their businesses.
'22 was actually a very good year for many dealers compared to 2019 --not everyone, but a majority saw very strong growth. The problem was that even this good year didn't do much to put a dent in the massive investments they had made in anticipation of another once-in-a-lifetime year. Or, in some cases, the standards of living that they had raised themselves to.

In any case, the behavior of many companies in this climate is despicable. Specialized and Trek, et al, have the money and warehouse space to survive a year while things settle down. Many of their dealers, some who have been with them for decades, and without whom these big guys wouldn't be where they are today, are not capable of doing the same.

On the subject of sponsored athletes and ambassadors: This is no indictment whatsoever on the ambassadors themselves or their good fortune. They got paid to go ride bikes and have fun. Good for them.
However, I don't think what they are doing has much if any ROI. I've never once considered a buying a bike because someone else was riding it across the Continental Divide or something like that. If there is fat to be trimmed, this is certainly the outer layer.

Great inaugural post!

[herb5998]

Great inaugural post!

Agreed! We've seen much of the same at our local shop, 2023 orders were probably about 15-20% of the volume we ordered in 20/21 (22 was mostly just waiting for items to finally arrive).

[Nickt]

low end of even a World-Tour pro cyclist who makes only $60K US per year, racing 80+ days, and busting their ass year round.

I'm not familiar enough with the salary ranges of World-Tour pros, but if this is accurate then I can completely imagine someone on a team that's already in bed with Specialized looking to get that extra $1,500/mo.

That's not to say Specialized will increase comp. for paid athletes who will take on the "onus of content creation" - in fact I doubt it.

[Upcountry]

I'm not familiar enough with the salary ranges of World-Tour pros, but if this is accurate then I can completely imagine someone on a team that's already in bed with Specialized looking to get that extra $1,500/mo.

That's not to say Specialized will increase comp. for paid athletes who will take on the "onus of content creation" - in fact I doubt it.

We all know that isn't going to happen... Considering that there are probably a hundred World Tour pros, and hundreds more Pro Conti level, that are making under $100k per year who's names you wouldn't know, I don't know that they move the dial as far as a revenue stream, if we're sticking with the theme of the thread that Specialized needs to see a return on investment.

As of 2021's new requirement, UCI minimum is around $60k/year.

The system certainly isn't perfect.

[peanutgallery]

This is kinda funny news...but you heard it first from me long ago...I told you so

Anyone that's done business with specialized will suffer a similar problem, eventually

Great products, but that's where it ends

[nmrt]

Are'nt people still clamoring to buy the Aethos and the new Crux and the high end Epic bikes at MSRP? Based on the "out of stock" on thesehigher end Spesh bikes I got the feeling that Spesh does not have boatloads of these.

Or maybe the "rich" people who buy these bikes do not need the discount according to spesh? :)

9/10 bike companies had best-ever years, by far, in 2020 and 2021. 9/10 bike shops experienced the same. The exceptions were mostly smaller and brand-new bike shops that got cut off (or never had accounts) from companies that cut out the little guys in order to feed the big ones. The reason given was the the little guys require almost as much clerical attention, and it just wasn't worth it in a time when the companies were overloaded with work already, and when their more dedicated dealers were in desperate need.

9/10 bike companies and dealers also over-projected significantly when planning for 2022. The shops realized it when business slowed waaaaaay down in autumn '22 (late Q3/early Q4). Bike companies realized it around that time, too --just as the long awaited major shipments of bread and butter bikes were finally arriving. Many of them convinced their dealers to panic buy anyway, saying that there would be shortages in '23 and that the bike frenzy would continue. Companies such as Specialized, Fuji, and Trek (among others), shoved previously-ordered product down the throats of dealers for whom all these bikes were too much, too late. There were threats to cut many dealers off if they didn't take these bikes--either explicit or implied.
Keep in mind that at this point, late '22/early '23, dealers were buying these bikes at full wholesale. Then, when companies like Specialized realized 'holy smokes, we are overloaded with bikes like never before and people have to get paid and we need warehouse space', they dropped their prices by 20-50% online, which didn't help dealers move any of their existing inventory --at least, not at profitable margins.
Specialized loves to use lingo like 'what makes sense for the rider' and 'what's best for the rider.' Nonsense. It always has been and always will be what's best for Specialized. If they were concerned about What's Best For The Rider, they wouldn't be obliquely trying to put LBS's out of business, and they wouldn't be telling The Rider how much they need bikes like that new $14k Diverge frankenbike.

That said, lots of dealers really screwed up in the transition from '21-'22. 2 years of undreamed of milk and honey caused them to overspend in their personal lives and in their businesses.
'22 was actually a very good year for many dealers compared to 2019 --not everyone, but a majority saw very strong growth. The problem was that even this good year didn't do much to put a dent in the massive investments they had made in anticipation of another once-in-a-lifetime year. Or, in some cases, the standards of living that they had raised themselves to.

In any case, the behavior of many companies in this climate is despicable. Specialized and Trek, et al, have the money and warehouse space to survive a year while things settle down. Many of their dealers, some who have been with them for decades, and without whom these big guys wouldn't be where they are today, are not capable of doing the same.

On the subject of sponsored athletes and ambassadors: This is no indictment whatsoever on the ambassadors themselves or their good fortune. They got paid to go ride bikes and have fun. Good for them.
However, I don't think what they are doing has much if any ROI. I've never once considered a buying a bike because someone else was riding it across the Continental Divide or something like that. If there is fat to be trimmed, this is certainly the outer layer.

[EB]

Are'nt people still clamoring to buy the Aethos and the new Crux and the high end Epic bikes at MSRP? Based on the "out of stock" on thesehigher end Spesh bikes I got the feeling that Spesh does not have boatloads of these.

Or maybe the "rich" people who buy these bikes do not need the discount according to spesh? :)

I can't find a single discounted bike on specialized.com. They finally do have most of their full range in stock online though, which is a huge change from a year ago.

Spesh pricing is always a bit shocking, but I was a little surprised to see that they're actually coming in below where some of their competition is now, like Santa Cruz (whose pricing seems to have gone literally insane this year).

[rice rocket]

Santa Cruz is just jealous of Yeti margins.

[oldpotatoe]

Influencer culture is kind of huge.

A good influencer can be way better for the sponsors than lots of the guys on the Pro Tour.

You can win races and not be good at making money for your sponsors. It's always been a thing even before social media. Just say stupid things when the journalists stick the mic in your face after your win. Forget to praise your sponsors. Get caught not using the sponsors products in public, etc..

It may very well be the influencers/ambassadors just weren't getting the job done for Specialized's brand though.

Look at this place. In aggregate it's an influencer. And it largely influences people to look down on Specialized. Big S would probably hence never sponsor this forum.

It'll be interesting if we really hit a recession if it hits consumer spending hard and influencers take a haircut. It doesn't seem a given though, and the big ones will survive right through it.

All this stuff is stupid though. The bike companies got 2 years of windfalls and now they're crying foul? Something was mismanaged. Maybe they grew too much or hired too many people, or blew a lot of the extra revenue on compensation. They weren't paying enough attention if they thought it was a permanent increase in sales.

When I read the title, I wondered if it was shimano or sram(too bad)...:)

Kind of? More like gigantic..'influencer'...I saw something on YT and when asked what this person did, she said, "I'm an influencer"...like it's a 'job'(guess it is but yikes, how 21st century).

A LOT of industries thought the weirdness of Covid was now 'biz as usual', and yup, grow, grow, grow...places like FB found out it wasn't going to be the 'new normal', as people took off their jimmies, packed up their laptops and went back to work.

[oldpotatoe]

We have hit a recession and consumer spending has taken a huge hit. Look at BF/CM numbers - huge decline from PY but somewhat masked by inflation. This program has been going on since 2016 and it's arguable if it's done anything other than generate likes - with one exception.

There's a reason they kept Lael Wilcox and essentially nobody else.

It also seems this was someone else's baby and the new C-suite members are cutting off old programs so they can implement their own projects that generate their own career boosting metrics. Forecasting for 2023/2024 is a disaster, the personal fitness bust is here and despite strong sales in some sectors of the bicycle industry we're well below trend for pre-COVID.

There's a lot more bloodletting to come.

Really? BTW-my economic expertise goes as far as me googling 'are we in a recession now'...
Measured in chained 2012 dollars, real personal consumption expenditures amounted to $14.1 trillion on an annualized basis in Q3 2022, up from $13.9 trillion a year earlier.
Though the economy has occasionally sputtered in 2022, it has certainly been resilient — and according to a traditional definition, the U.S. is not currently in a recession. The conventional benchmark has been that two consecutive quarters of a generally slowing economy defines a recession.

[spoonrobot]

Really? BTW-my economic expertise goes as far as me googling 'are we in a recession now'...

Thank you for your Google, Sir
https://img2.pngio.com/avatars-should-be-transparent-when-theyre-transparent-issue-salute-emoji-png-511_453.png

[oldpotatoe]

Great inaugural post!

Yup, wonder if we will learn who this gent is..pretty obviously an 'insider'....

[sg8357]

What is a 9/10 Bike Company?


I thought Lael was famous, since she appeared in Bike Quarterly all the time.
Spesh's all-time best influencer was BikeSnobNYC.

Note:
The Swallows were also dumped by Bruce Gordon, which is far more
prestigious than being dumped by Spesh. :banana:

[Mike V]

Interesting goggle. Lol

[54ny77]

I care about any big bike company as much as they care about me, which is to say...nada for both. Plenty of other things to worry about in life. And plenty of other bike brands to look at if the need is there.

:banana:

[callmeishmael]

In the UK, we're starting to see significant discounts on bikes across the board, including Spesh. It's possible to get an Aethos at c.25% of RRP, though that's not true of all models.

Certainly, the gloomy economic outlook and cost-of-living squeeze here is driving down discretionary spending, and I think many consumers and businesses will be cost-cutting for the next 6-9 months at least.

However, I wonder if those who routinely inhabit the very high end of the market are in the same boat. The majority of those shopping for £10k+ bikes are often wealthy enough to be insulated from the worst fluctuations, and indeed, there are some signs that those who can afford it are leveraging the conditions to buy at knock-down prices.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . it's going to be all about ROI. If you're the marketing director and you can't make a pretty clear link between a program and the resulting $$$ return on investment, it's gonna be gone. That would apply to pro road riders, MTB'ers–anybody they are paying money to boost sales.

Plus it's also a certainty that the company had contracts with riders like Swallow that allow them to keep on using any content these people have produced for as long as they want in any medium they desire. There will be enough visual content there of bikepackers in scenic locations (without the year/model of the equipment being apparent) that they could cruise for years in their advertising with that content.

BBD

[KonaSS]

We have seen significant layoffs of FULL TIME staff by all kinds of players in the industry.....

Wahoo, Strava, Whoop, Outside, Pro's Closet, Peloton, QBP, Thule.....

I am sure there are others, and I am sure there are more to come. I know some of these have been discussed, so let's not act like it is the big bad Specialized is acting in isolation here. Economic downturns are tough for lots of people.

[makoti]

https://www.velonews.com/news/gravel/adventure-no-more-specialized-ends-contracts-with-dozens-of-paid-ambassadors/

At least they're not cutting whoever runs their bar tape division ...

Do people actually listen to these folks? If I was S (or anyone), that's be my question. I'd have cut these guys off long ago.
Do you base your buying decisions on what someone paid in $$ or merch says about a product? I've almost completely stopped reading "reviews" except to jump to the comments.
I can be swayed by advertising, but not by spokespeople.

[jadedaid]

Do those "influencers" really impact the purchasing decisions of the market well heeled enough to drop $10-$15k for a bike?


Works on me I guess.

But this is again all advertising. If people I follow on youtube, instagram, etc. ride Specialized bikes then those will be disproportionately represented in the digital content that the algorithms sends my way. If I see 15 Tarmacs for every Factor or Colnago then Big S has a comparative marketing advantage. As a consumer it's also really easy to see cool photos of Specialized bikes anywhere you go online. Lots of good photographers taking photos of their bikes in interesting locations with good light. Makes for an aspirational purchase - "Maybe I too can ride my Crux through the Badlands course..." With other makes you sometimes really have to dig to get inspired. Trusting someone who gets paid by Big S and given Big S bikes to be impartial would be silly. And what experience do they have riding other similar bikes? I look at the instagram posts the same way some people look at Rolex ads in National Geographic. "Hey, this is cool..."

When my local bike shop sponsored their own racing team and every registered racer had a 20% discount on Specialized bikes, you saw a lot of Tarmacs. When buying a bike you pretty much had to make the case against a Specialized bike rather than for it because you saw so much of them. Can't be junk bikes if half the people you know ride them right?

Whether it's worth the money is for someone else to decide, and Big S obviously didn't see ongoing value in that.

[benb]

Layoffs are layoffs but I really find the dismissive attitudes about how important some of these people are kind of funny.

I am very very likely to go search Youtube for videos on a new bike.

100% I watched a whole bunch of videos about the Trek Farley before I bought mine this year.

Most of these videos, even if they got a loaner bike or even got paid, I find to be far far more useful than the traditional big bike company marketing programs like ads in magazines, reviews in Bicycling Magazine or Velonews, etc..

Now the reason I think it's easy for Specialized to stop paying these people a salary as there are lots of other people making these videos who will continue to do so. I suspect a lot of these ambassadors were not giving Specialized a good ROI.

If your an ambassador and Specialized knows some of the non-ambassadors got 10x or 100x the views on their videos on a Specialized product clearly the ambassador is not doing a good job.

One of the guys I watched the most videos on about the Farley is just a local guy who lives < 1 hour away from me and is not sponsored or an ambassador in any way. And he even had posted videos on some of the same trails I ride, so his videos were ultra relevant. If he's going to make those videos for free that's a better deal for the bike company than having to pay someone else.

Maybe people here are still looking at traditional stuff to make decisions. I'm 45, still maybe younger than average here. I'd suspect people younger than me are way more likely to be listening to ambassadors and influencers.

[makoti]

One of the guys I watched the most videos on about the Farley is just a local guy who lives < 1 hour away from me and is not sponsored or an ambassador in any way. And he even had posted videos on some of the same trails I ride, so his videos were ultra relevant. If he's going to make those videos for free that's a better deal for the bike company than having to pay someone else.

Which kind of goes to my point. Are they making a difference? You got more from an unpaid (we presume) source than you did from the official folks.
You tell me you're getting product or support from the company you're reviewing, I'll take it with a huge grain of salt.
You get product/support from them and DON'T tell me, I'm never coming back.

[rice rocket]

Which kind of goes to my point. Are they making a difference? You got more from an unpaid (we presume) source than you did from the official folks.
You tell me you're getting product or support from the company you're reviewing, I'll take it with a huge grain of salt.
You get product/support from them and DON'T tell me, I'm never coming back.

For growing markets like gravel, I'd say it matters a whole lot.

For road bikes, not so much.

[benb]

Which kind of goes to my point. Are they making a difference? You got more from an unpaid (we presume) source than you did from the official folks.
You tell me you're getting product or support from the company you're reviewing, I'll take it with a huge grain of salt.
You get product/support from them and DON'T tell me, I'm never coming back.

There is that aspect, but the magazines and traditional marketing all have the same conflicts of interest.

I was listening to a podcast last week with Paul Reed Smith (owns a major guitar company). He said he was on the podcast because he realizes 1000x more people listen to the podcast than any of the traditional sources like magazine subscriptions.

That's just the point. If some Youtube guy is getting 100x more views on his video about bike Product X than Velonews has subscribers you don't stop supporting the Youtube guy when money is tight, you drop the magazine ads.

[Spdntrxi]

I'm not that into influencers personally. Many are FOS.

[benb]

Let's be realistic as well, it sounds like this was pocket change to Specialized.

$1500/month (someone listed that) is nothing. It's not even minimum wage. The entire program probably cost way less than the bonus of a single guy up in the C-suite.

If they can't figure out if it had a good ROI that's on them.

[openwheelracing]

Instead of paying influencers, I hope they pay the shops they own now, and provide more promotions and events with that money. Hopefully money doesn't go to upper management bonuses.

[Elefantino]

Slight drift, but for the first time this year we are NOT getting any new bikes from the warehouse this week. We're overstocked on the floor with three dozen more bikes in the back.

And there are a couple of hundred bikes in boxes in the warehouse.

The boom is bust.

[BRad704]

The only influencer I care about is Nick (https://www.instagram.com/nickarend/). :banana:

[BRad704]

Slight drift, but for the first time this year we are NOT getting any new bikes from the warehouse this week. We're overstocked on the floor with three dozen more bikes in the back.

And there are a couple of hundred bikes in boxes in the warehouse.

The boom is bust.

Trek LBS where my buddy is the Manager is the same way. Every rack is full, more bikes in boxes in the back. But sales are down so corp is limiting hours for employees which ends up making it harder to have good services and sales to try and increase revenue.

[72gmc]

Let's be realistic as well, it sounds like this was pocket change to Specialized.

This is what caused me to create the thread. For some reason I find myself surprised that they cut off contracts the way they did, and with not much at stake, money-wise.

Someone in that board room must have decided this made sense. Seems careless and unnecessary to me, acting in bad faith with people who speak for your brand.

[raygunner]

I didn't know Golden Saddle Cyclery closed.

[meyatt]

It just seems a question of ROI at this point — the bike market is so saturated but also fairly niche compared to other industries. Cycling was a bit 'late' to the influencer side of business marketing, but other industries have had their collapse in the past year or two.

In 2016 or 2018 you could have paid someone a modest sum with a lot of followers and had a fairly big impact on your bottom line and significantly cheaper than your advertising budget, but now everyone uses their army of influencers it ends up a bit net-equal.

That all said — it sucks, these are people's jobs and their livelihood, and while a lot of it seems really glamorous from afar many of them are working creatives juggling a bunch of different jobs on tight timelines. Very few are earning their keep by simply biking and being filmed, but instead are themselves doing the filming, posting, outreach, etc.

[charliedid]

Control the narrative.

[Bostic]

A change in C Suite is common enough. They want to bring in their people and their ideas. It happens all the time.

I'm an aging Gen X'er so an influencer is hardly someone who would influence me. I've been in IT for many years and when it comes time to trim excess this is the type of position that is not something critical to running the company. I've been at companies where I have onboarded a ton of people and then had to go through the process of off boarding those same folk a year or two later when RIF's occur.

As has been mentioned earlier, if you were/are an influencer count your blessings and enjoy it while it lasts. If you can make a full time career out of it then more power to you.

[peanutgallery]

Rumor has it, Jamis has 25,000 bikes that are homeless for the Holidays. That isn't how the system is supposed to work:)

Slight drift, but for the first time this year we are NOT getting any new bikes from the warehouse this week. We're overstocked on the floor with three dozen more bikes in the back.

And there are a couple of hundred bikes in boxes in the warehouse.

The boom is bust.

[Waldo62]

$1500/month for one of Spesh's top ambassadors is peanuts. I can't believe they were paying so little. The bean counters have taken over.

[jadmt]

Rumor has it, Jamis has 25,000 bikes that are homeless for the Holidays. That isn't how the system is supposed to work:)

I would gladly adopt one of those homeless Jamis bikes in size 54cm lol.

[sg8357]

It just seems a question of ROI at this point — the bike market is so saturated but also fairly niche compared to other industries. Cycling was a bit 'late' to the influencer side of business marketing, but other industries have had their collapse in the past year or [snip]

The cycling pre-social media, there Rec-Bicycles.* that included several groups, containing influencers, ambassadors and trolls.
The Phred server, hosted even more lists, just better behaved.


Kent Peterson "I am not a Nutrional Role Model" influencer
Piaw Na, moderator & influencer.
Sheldon Brown, Jobst Brandt etc.

[72gmc]

Kent Peterson! He influenced me to slow down and look around.

[openwheelracing]

Been waiting patiently for a decent hardtail. I refuse to pay anything near inflated MSRP. Same bike two years ago had 40% lower msrp. Even if they discount today they are still over priced.

[charliedid]

e-bike Influencers please step to the front of the line...

[Elefantino]

e-bike Influencers please step to the front of the line...

https://electricbikeblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Philip-Middlemiss-1-7501.jpg

[Old School]

e-bike Influencers please step to the front of the line...

Don't forget to Like and Subscribe!

[rice rocket]

I'm actually in the market for an e-bike, but with everyone sounding the alarm, I'm holding, waiting for the bottom to drop out.

I have been influenced quite a fair bit, just not enough to overpay.

[robt57]

Is Spesh traded publicly? And if yes did Elon buy a bunch of it??

:bike:

[mjf]

I do wonder how the new executives will integrate into Specialized.

The CMO David Schriber (https://www.skatecamp.com/works) seems to have done some work on bikeshare marketing while at Nike, and a previous product launch for Spec in 2019. Broadly, looks like a fair bit of experience in sports in general, skateboarding/snowboarding, but not a large amount in cycling.

Similarly the new CEO Scott Maguire comes from Dyson, with what looks like no experience in cycling from what I can find.

This also reminds me of the recent departure of the CEO of Rapha, Wiliiam Kim (formerly of Burberry and Gucci) who left after less than a year.
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/rapha-ceo-william-kim-steps-down-after-less-than-one-year-in-the-role/

Because of the nature of the cycling community and industry as a whole, makes me wonder about the drive from people outside of the industry/community. This is mostly driven by my quesiton of whether their perspectives fit in with what the broader cycling community is seeking.

[charliedid]

I do wonder how the new executives will integrate into Specialized.

The CMO David Schriber (https://www.skatecamp.com/works) seems to have done some work on bikeshare marketing while at Nike, and a previous product launch for Spec in 2019. Broadly, looks like a fair bit of experience in sports in general, skateboarding/snowboarding, but not a large amount in cycling.

Similarly the new CEO Scott Maguire comes from Dyson, with what looks like no experience in cycling from what I can find.

This also reminds me of the recent departure of the CEO of Rapha, Wiliiam Kim (formerly of Burberry and Gucci) who left after less than a year.
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/rapha-ceo-william-kim-steps-down-after-less-than-one-year-in-the-role/

Because of the nature of the cycling community and industry as a whole, makes me wonder about the drive from people outside of the industry/community. This is mostly driven by my quesiton of whether their perspectives fit in with what the broader cycling community is seeking.


What is the "nature of the cycling community" and what is the "broader cycling community seeking"?

[pdonk]

If Cannondale can dump tinker after 25 years, specialized should be able dump a list of kinda some ones to a small group of people without much blow back.

[jimoots]

Influencers are just another marketing channel; no different to a TV commercial, ad in Google Search, PR puff piece in a magazine, sponsored video on Facebook... marketers commonly refer to a marketing mix for a reason. Horses for courses.

I can see why the big brands would use influencers to push product. The audience here is a discerning one, but the cycling market at large is not as discerning as it lets on.

All it takes is a few cool kids to start doing something and next minute we'll all be wearing ankle socks again.

The influencer model allows the cool kids (or kids with audiences) to cash in on their coolness slash audience. I'm ok with that.

But I do not begrudge any business to change their marketing mix and don't really see the problem with what has happened, apart from the Big-S doing what they do best and being a bit too brutal and hamfisted.

Obviously it poses a question around having a long term view of marketing as an investment as opposed to a short term cost. With Specialized being a privately owned business you do wonder why they are slashing these sort of costs - when it is a competitive advantage to keep them rolling while their competitors. who have to answer to shareholders or do not have as much capital to play with, pull back.

[marciero]

Worth noting (and maybe mentioned already) that influencers also generate income based on their social media followings. I am sort of curious about this kind of thing. Youtuber culture is sort of different - at least the people I susbscribe to. They are not influencers per se, they just generate good content, and many make very good money doing it. Lael "only" has about 100k followers on instagram. I guess that is respectable given the niche sport and the fact that non participants are not likely to follow her, in contrast to, say, a college gymnast. Instagram and youtube dont seem directly comparable though. Some influencers, including athletes, seem to have little or no youtube presence. Maybe because they dont actually create content? And I dont know how the revenue model works but must be ad driven as well, with roi, or at least a proxies thereof, directly measurable.

[oldpotatoe]

Don't forget to Like and Subscribe!

Well, YouTube 'biz' is a whole different gig. Put some good or some really crappy or disturbing videos up, sell a few t-shirts and hoodies, become a millionaire.

I watch/subscribe to some sailing, cars, watch repair, flying, guns..and some of these guys have millions of subscribers(one over 11 million)...and it's 'about $5 per 1000 views...

500,000 views per week, $2500 per week, $130,000 per year plus merch(which is often bigger $ than the YT income)..

[Upcountry]

I was listening to the "Bikepack Racing Podcast", which admittedly is a bit of an amateur hour, but well intentioned. One of the hosts brought up the Specialized parting of ways with some of their ambassadors. It was hilarious to me that the same host who seemed so disappointed with this move couldn't identify the right person who had been let go. He felt really bad for Sarah Sturm... who is a pro racer, that wasn't let go... The other host stepped into educate him that it was Sarah Swallow. This is a prime example that their dollars are better spent elsewhere, as someone "in the industry" and a target audience hasn't retained the info they're trying to get across.

[jimoots]

He felt really bad for Sarah Sturm... who is a pro racer, that wasn't let go... The other host stepped into educate him that it was Sarah Swallow. This is a prime example that their dollars are better spent elsewhere, as someone "in the industry" and a target audience hasn't retained the info they're trying to get across.

You realise that brand awareness and brand recall, not influencer awareness / recall, would be the measurable here.

If you’re trying to build a perception that anyone who is anyone in gravel rides a Spec, it’s still good marketing.

They only pulled out because the marketing budget is the first to be cut when thing slow down.

It’s tactical, not strategic, and not to be commended as brilliant.

[flying]

Well, YouTube 'biz' is a whole different gig. Put some good or some really crappy or disturbing videos up, sell a few t-shirts and hoodies, become a millionaire.

I watch/subscribe to some sailing, cars, watch repair, flying, guns..and some of these guys have millions of subscribers(one over 11 million)...and it's 'about $5 per 1000 views...

500,000 views per week, $2500 per week, $130,000 per year plus merch(which is often bigger $ than the YT income)..

This site tell approx income for youtube sites if you enter address or stats for influencer if you enter user name

https://socialblade.com/

[peanutgallery]

Another shoe drops

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2023/01/11/specialized-announces-8-staff-reduction#.Y79tAqROk0E

Won't be the last

[rice rocket]

But then....

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2023/01/11/specialized-buys-former-pearl-izumi-building


Making big purchases while slashing employees is not a good look.

[peanutgallery]

That is the look, it's a green building

Highly regarded:)

But then....

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2023/01/11/specialized-buys-former-pearl-izumi-building


Making big purchases while slashing employees is not a good look.

[Nizzle]

Yikes. Layoffs sure are in vogue these days.

Another shoe drops

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2023/01/11/specialized-announces-8-staff-reduction#.Y79tAqROk0E

Won't be the last

[pinoymamba]

Have friends who work for the big S and they always say it’s a circus show especially when the old man was steering the ship. The text thread is always a good laugh. All those social media influencers are lame. Just live in the now and ride your bike.

[rice rocket]

That is the look, it's a green building

Highly regarded:)

My guess is Mr. Ex-Dyson CEO looked at that Diverge and threw up in his mouth, said we must open a design studio immediately.

[lavi]

Yikes. Layoffs sure are in vogue these days.

I don't get this. Hiring and layoffs are part of the regular biz cycle in the US. It's not a complicated equation. In good times, companies hire. In bad times (or with an impending recession), they fire. It's been this way forever. While frustrating, and certainly it sucks for those affected, I don't get the hand wringing.

What I also don't think is fully grasped is how to actually run a for-profit business. The business, as much as we'd like it to, is not in the "business" of caring for employees so much as for making a profit. A healthy company has to roll with the ups and downs of biz cycles. It's not personal. It's business.

In our little corner of the world, it seems we love to bash a company for laying off. They don't owe the employees a great life. This isn't Europe (thank g_d). I sometimes get the impression that folks would like the bike industry to a Socialist industry (living wage, 1,000 days paid vacation, free ins, pension, can never get fired). That will never work. Not when we live in a Capitalist nation. Every company to try this would go broke.

As far as strategic planning/purchases (buying the PI building), those happen regardless of hire/fire decisions. The Finance nerds (I'm one) probably saw an opportunity to nab something in a down market that will benefit the company for many years to come. It is what it is. If I were the CFO, I'd perhaps make the same move if the deal seemed favorable (so many factors at play).

But I get it. This thread is about bashing Specialized. Carry on.

Caveat: I'm not in favor of all the VC companies buying everything up and then going scorched earth to fatten up the P&L. That's lame.

[Metz]

This ^

I was lucky/unlucky enough to work at Enterprise Rent-a-Car fresh outta college. I was managing an office by 24 and basically running a small business. Most of my income was based on net profit so I had make decisions all the time as to how much staff I wanted/needed to run the office down to mundane stuff like purchasing car wash supplies. I learned early how things work even after being a Philosophy major who loved the Clash and hated Reagan/Thatcher. I now work for a large, conservative bank and most of my clients are entrepreneurs that sometimes sell their businesses (usually to private equity firms) and make millions. Immediately after they sell they get bashed because things change at the business even though they took all the financial risk and worked insanely hard to get to where they are. The work they did and risk they took helped me to provide a home and food for my family via our business partnership. They also provided that for their employees. So if Spesh and Pro's Closet change then we can either continue to buy from them or not. There are so many options out there so why waste a bunch of time whinging? If my company spun my business unit off and I lost my job then I'd be grateful for the time I was there and respect their decision as to how to run their business. Likewise if my work environment was terrible I have the choice to go somewhere else. I always look at it like this - it's my responsibility to do my job at a high level and it's my employer's job to provide a good work atmosphere/culture and pay me fairly. If either party isn't happy with the arrangement then we part ways. And if my conscience can't deal with working for a large for-profit company then I can find something else that better aligns with my outlook on life.

[lavi]

This ^

SNIP

Hear Hear!

We can hang out. :banana:

[72gmc]

I agree with a lot of your points, Lavi, but I don't think perpetuating the misuse of "socialism" and hyperbole about the particulars of social safety net discussions is helpful.

I started this thread because I felt their methods (if not their actions) were bad moves from a brand perspective, and probably unnecessary from a financial perspective. That's not an argument against business necessities. I guess it's an argument against a business choosing, again, to favor money over people in such an aggressive way.

[lavi]

I agree with a lot of your points, Lavi, but I don't think perpetuating the misuse of "socialism" and hyperbole about the particulars of social safety net discussions is helpful.

Agree! I didn't intend to use the word pejoratively. I was lacking a better descriptor.

Tell me a person is from the mid-west with mid-west values without saying it (looking at myself).

[Old School]

That is the look, it's a green building

Highly regarded:)


Specialized Bicycle Components bought the award-winning office building in Lousville, Colorado for $14.9 million.

Its about slowly moving out of California.

Like Fox.
Like Tesla.
Like HP.
Like the family bike shop down the street that just packed up two U-hauls and moved to Bentonville.

Its a LOOOONG list

[rice rocket]

Specialized Bicycle Components bought the award-winning office building in Lousville, Colorado for $14.9 million.

Its about slowly moving out of California.

Like Fox.
Like Tesla.
Like HP.

Its a LOOOONG list

Uhhhhh, reality check here.

It's 55k ft^2, which is probably smaller than some of their stores. They'd need about 10 of these to move their HQ.

[72gmc]

Tell me a person is from the mid-west with mid-west values without saying it (looking at myself).

And I'm deeply flawed in a PNW way.

Open invitation to mock each other over good beers (which can also be a debate) if we ever meet.

[RWL2222]

This ^

I was lucky/unlucky enough to work at Enterprise Rent-a-Car fresh outta college. I was managing an office by 24 and basically running a small business. Most of my income was based on net profit so I had make decisions all the time as to how much staff I wanted/needed to run the office down to mundane stuff like purchasing car wash supplies. I learned early how things work even after being a Philosophy major who loved the Clash and hated Reagan/Thatcher. I now work for a large, conservative bank and most of my clients are entrepreneurs that sometimes sell their businesses (usually to private equity firms) and make millions. Immediately after they sell they get bashed because things change at the business even though they took all the financial risk and worked insanely hard to get to where they are. The work they did and risk they took helped me to provide a home and food for my family via our business partnership. They also provided that for their employees. So if Spesh and Pro's Closet change then we can either continue to buy from them or not. There are so many options out there so why waste a bunch of time whinging? If my company spun my business unit off and I lost my job then I'd be grateful for the time I was there and respect their decision as to how to run their business. Likewise if my work environment was terrible I have the choice to go somewhere else. I always look at it like this - it's my responsibility to do my job at a high level and it's my employer's job to provide a good work atmosphere/culture and pay me fairly. If either party isn't happy with the arrangement then we part ways. And if my conscience can't deal with working for a large for-profit company then I can find something else that better aligns with my outlook on life.

[Ok, passes the chatgpt bot test? How we gonna really know? Seems real—post #5 no real no sequitors. Welcome]

[Old School]

Uhhhhh, reality check here.

It's 55k ft^2, which is probably smaller than some of their stores. They'd need about 10 of these to move their HQ.

I was thinking 15M got you more commercial sqft than that in Colorado. Shouldn't be surprised, I keep hearing that area is expensive home prices. Specialized headquarters currently is 150,000 sqft.