Insurance claim [Archive] - The Paceline Forum

Chad Engle

05-14-2007, 08:40 AM

Actual cash value (acv) versus Replacement Cost (RC) can be determined a number of ways.

Straight line depreciation is determining the useful life of the item, then reducing the RC to ACV by the number of years used against the number of years of useful life left. This might not be a bad method because a well cared for bike will last quite a while.

Another method is market value. You could determine this by checking ebay, or this forums classified section to see what similar model bicycles are selling for.

Be firm and reasonable with the carrier and you should be able to reach a settlement. Whatever # you come up with just make sure you can document the method, don't just pull #'s out of the air. If the adjuster can verify/document why he/she is paying you what they are paying you, it shouldn't be a problem.

You have already cleared the biggest hurdle, liability. Good luck, sorry about losing the bicycle, but look on the bright side, you get to buy a new one.

Birddog

05-14-2007, 09:07 AM

My three year old Ottrott ST was hit broadside.If you were on that bike and had any kind of injury, I wouldn't think they'd be so picky. Was it a custom frame? How do you establish FMV for a custom frame with somewhat limited production numbers other than replacement cost? If it was in great shape, then they should be paying very close to what a replacement costs. As Chad said, basically the adjuster needs some file material to cover his arse.

Birddog

Len J

05-14-2007, 09:13 AM

I was involved in an accident with an automobile. My three year old Ottrott ST was hit broadside. The insurance company has admitted liability and offered a claim settlement. However, they want to depreciate the replacement cost of the bike (itemized by my LBS).

I am interested in any viewpoints on establishing the value of the bike before the accident, or any information from people that have had a similar incident.

hope you are OK.

As to the bike value....the easiest way is to look at closed auctions for similar bikes on e-bay. This tends to be a pretty good gauge of real value of what was lost.

The other option is to send it back to Serotta and get a quote on restoring it to "like new" condition. I would do this as it would give you a negotiating data point with the insurance co.

Unfortunatly, similar to auto accidents,, unless your own policy has a replacement value clause, you are getting what the bike was worth when it was destroyed. In one accident I had, I received roughly 1/2 the replacement value from the drivers policy and received the difference on my homeowners policy (I had a rider on my policy).

Good luck.

len

J.Greene

05-14-2007, 09:28 AM

Don't accept less than the value to replace your bike or frame with a new one. Explain to the insurabce company it's in their best interest that you ride a bike that is known to be free of structuaral problems and a used carbon bike won't do that. Same goes for components. A carbon frame is not like an automobile atmo, insist on a new one. And buy the serotta insurance while your at it. It sounds like a great deal.

JG

I was involved in an accident with an automobile. My three year old Ottrott ST was hit broadside. The insurance company has admitted liability and offered a claim settlement. However, they want to depreciate the replacement cost of the bike (itemized by my LBS).

I am interested in any viewpoints on establishing the value of the bike before the accident, or any information from people that have had a similar incident.

Chad Engle

05-14-2007, 09:30 AM

Len has a great point, unless you really want a new bike, get Serotta to give you an estimate to repair it. There's more than one way to skin a cat. Just joking Sandy.

I just assumed it was not repairable. :no:

You can demand replacment with new, snow balls chance that you'll get it. I would recommend negotiating vs. demanding.

Serotta PETE

05-14-2007, 09:45 AM

Len is correct. Get your dealer to get an RA and send it back to SEROTTA. Kelly does the estimates and it will be as good as new when they fix it.

If it is taking too long for estimate send me an email pmckeon@bellsouth.net with your RA # and other info and I will call and ask a favor.

Be business like and stick to be facts. I am no lawyer but since they admit the liability, you should be ok with the estimate and getting it fixed. There is not a Kelly or Edmonds that they can go to for a replacement so the chances are good that they will pay to have it fixed.

Good luck and glad you are ok.

PETE

Len J

05-14-2007, 09:47 AM

A carbon frame is not like an automobile atmo, insist on a new one. JG

I don't get this. While i understand wanting replacement value, whay is that appropriate? Presumably he was riding a used bike.....and as such should get used value.

Elaborate?

Len

C5 Snowboarder

05-14-2007, 09:59 AM

Sending to Serotta for Frame repair is a good idea, the components must be taken off -- so leave the fixing and repairing of those to your LBS, add the two repair slips and you get your value.

Insurance companies are masters at saving money - do not forget that! Of course he is going to offer you less, negotiate and even keep in mind you make have to get a free � hr consultation with an attorney. I hope it is not Allstate�they are tops when cheating people out of a fair claim if you are not a customer of theirs.

Forget the ebay and past sold items.. means nothing to getting your bike fixed, you are not selling your bike which is a lot less than the fix it price.- don't go there with the insurance guy, you are not comparing apples to apples.

Dave B

05-14-2007, 10:05 AM

If your frame was custom made then you cannot settle for less then a new one. Tell them this and say they cannot replace a custome frame with a stock frame.

You can always negotiate on parts as they can be had used. But the frame I would want to be perfect. You could probably get a letter from Serotta mentioning that the bike does not decrease in performance over a short time. Basically saying that it would still be new in terms of function.

Or you can always sue your company depending on if a lawyer thinks you'll win.

Serotta PETE

05-14-2007, 10:20 AM

As in any accident, you need to get an estimate on repair. Get this process started on RA to Serotta and then you have more information to work with.

I assure you a "repaired by SEROTTA" is as good as new. It goes thru the same manufacturing and process steps as a new frame.

Were you a member of the OWERS CLUB? - -if so you will make out even better. The new progam is called "Peace of Mind" and limits your our of pocket expense, even if SEROTTA determines it is cheaper for them to give you a new frame. (NO insurance company to deal with)

WE as an individual can not make an insurance company do anything. They are masters at delaying and minimizing payment. Take the steps mentioned and be business like and professional with the adjuster and all others. No threats - because they are meaningless. NEGOTIATE AND BE PROFESSIONAL. You are ok and that is all that really counts.

Ken Robb

05-14-2007, 10:24 AM

I have, unfortunately, had a few instances where my car was hit by another while I was stopped. Since there was no question as to the other drivers' liability I found their insurance companies to be very willing to give me new parts rather than fixing the old ones. I think they were just thrilled that I wasn't claiming serious injuries.

A side note: my lovely "Stelvio" had just been restored to perfection including $650 JB paint when the owner was hit by a car while stopped at a red light. The rear wheel was bent. No other damage. The wheels were 36 hole, red anodized Mavic aeros (CXP 21 or 33? I forget.) No replacement rim could be found to make the bike exactly as it was before the accident so the insurer paid the total cost of the restoration which was surely much more than "market value". I think the owner probably was relieved to get out of his "folly" with the cash. Almost anyone who has paid for a pro restoration of a car or motorcycle has paid in more than he could get out selling at market value and the collective wisdom for those wanting a restored Belchfire V-12 is to buy one finished rather than get into the restoration money pit.

Again, the point here being when an insured is obviously responsible his insurer will be very happy to settle for anything close to a reasonable property damage claim while hoping to avoid claims for real or imagined injuries.

The rest of the Stelvio story: the inurer paid full cost value for the restored bike so they owned it. I tried to coach the adjuster on how to eBay with pix, etc. She didn't want to be bothered to that extent so I bought it for a lot less than their settlement cost.

I think you should at least get a Serotta-repaired frame/fork and I wouldn't be surprised if they bought you a new frame with a little prodding.

John H.

05-14-2007, 10:33 AM

Insurance companies are not in the business of paying claims. They are in the business of collecting premiums and loss control.
They will always offer you the lowest amount possible.
Give them receipts/estimates for total replacement of everything damaged or potentially damaged. Include clothes, helmet, and everything. Get warranty information/brochures for various cycling products and include those. Most warranty information says if you crash a carbon part- you should throw it away.
Present your side as they present their side. Ask for everything at full price. Do not back down.

zap

05-14-2007, 10:46 AM

When I got hit and nearly run over many years ago, I submitted a bill to the driver's insurance company for a new frame, parts and my labour charge of $50/hr. I didn't seek other monies for a minor injury caused by the fall.

The insurance company promptly hand delivered a check for double the amount I asked for.

You just started negotiating with the insurance company. I would recommend that you don't accept anything less than full retail value of a new frame, needed parts, labour, etc.

Chad Engle

05-14-2007, 10:58 AM

Try this approach, your frame is a part of the whole bike. (I'm going to go all gestalt for a minute). No different than a bumper on a car.

If the frame can be repaired to the same condition it was prior to the crash, all is well and they owe the cost to repair the frame. Actually, you will have received some betterment because the paint was probably not new at the time and the repair will require a fresh coat of paint.

If the frame cannot be repaired, you should ask for the cost of a replacement frame. Again, just a part of the bike as a whole. This would get you as close as possible to the condition you were in before the accident occurred.

If you demand "full replacement cost" the answer will be, and rightly so, you are not owed full replacement cost. But they should not have a problem replacing parts of the bike with new.

Listen to Pete on this one, he is the voice of reason.

J.Greene

05-14-2007, 11:19 AM

I don't get this. While i understand wanting replacement value, whay is that appropriate? Presumably he was riding a used bike.....and as such should get used value.

Elaborate?

Len

My answer was in the context of this was an offer to settle. Assuming Plum was on a bike that was properly maintained and safe, he should not assume the liability of getting less in return. My limited experience is that this is not uncommon.

And I don't feel that he should demand more than he is entitiled to. But a safe bicycle for someone else's negligence is minimal compared to what he could be claiming.

JG

djg

05-14-2007, 12:06 PM

I don't get this. While i understand wanting replacement value, whay is that appropriate? Presumably he was riding a used bike.....and as such should get used value.

Elaborate?

Len

Len

It could be entirely appropriate to negotiate for a new bike, depending on the circumstances. Think of it this way: generally speaking, calculation of "replacement value" is intended to provide a sum that will make the injured party whole. The value calculated however, is at best an idealization and at worst an outright fiction. Can somebody with a trashed Serotta find a replacement, at a discount, on the used market? Maybe, but that replacement may be an excellent, good, fair, poor, or even terrible substitute for the damaged good.

Compare the search for a used car with the search for a used bike. If a 2005 VW Passat, in excellent condition, with 27K miles on it, gets trashed, one can find another. Used car values from certain sources are based on actual survey data, which incorporate substantial numbers of sales, and it's not unlikely that a buyer can find another Passat, with the same options, in the same color, with roughly the same mileage in, say, a day. Mileage can be verified, insurance and salvage records can be checked electronically, and the car can be inspected with some care and specialized instruments. It's not necessarily perfect, but if your Passat is trashed, it's entirely reasonable for an insurer to argue that it can provide you with a nearly perfect substitute at a discounted price (or can provide you with a sum sufficient to purchase a nearly perfect substitute).

How about an Ottrot? In a given month, there may be one or two advertised, in about the right size, from around the country. There may be zero. If there are a couple available somewhere, it may be very difficult to verify the condition of either bike, in any careful way, before buying. Also, because the Ottrot is a custom frame, either the damaged bike or the supposed replacement bike may deviate from some standard model in ways pretty significant to the injured party. Did you ask for a rock solid sprinting bike? Did the other seller ask for something comfortable for his 115 pound body on double-centuries?

So look, it's true that one might, depending on the circumstances, find a very nice substitute at a big discount over new bike pricing. It's also true that, depending on the circumstances, the damaged bike could be repaired and refinished for a great deal less than the price of a new one. It's also possible that a discounted "replacement value" ends up being a harsh fiction, one which leaves the injured party up a creek without a paddle. He cannot run down to Carmax and buy another, today, on a five-day approval period, with further warrantees.

Because actual replacement can be a sketchy process, some folks argue for, and some insurers ultimately provide, a new bike. I don't know what the circumstances warrant in the present case, or what agreement can be reached, but the notion of new replacement doesn't seem off-base to me as a general proposition.

Len J

05-14-2007, 12:46 PM

Len

It could be entirely appropriate to negotiate for a new bike, depending on the circumstances. Think of it this way: generally speaking, calculation of "replacement value" is intended to provide a sum that will make the injured party whole. The value calculated however, is at best an idealization and at worst an outright fiction. Can somebody with a trashed Serotta find a replacement, at a discount, on the used market? Maybe, but that replacement may be an excellent, good, fair, poor, or even terrible substitute for the damaged good.

Compare the search for a used car with the search for a used bike. If a 2005 VW Passat, in excellent condition, with 27K miles on it, gets trashed, one can find another. Used car values from certain sources are based on actual survey data, which incorporate substantial numbers of sales, and it's not unlikely that a buyer can find another Passat, with the same options, in the same color, with roughly the same mileage in, say, a day. Mileage can be verified, insurance and salvage records can be checked electronically, and the car can be inspected with some care and specialized instruments. It's not necessarily perfect, but if your Passat is trashed, it's entirely reasonable for an insurer to argue that it can provide you with a nearly perfect substitute at a discounted price (or can provide you with a sum sufficient to purchase a nearly perfect substitute).

How about an Ottrot? In a given month, there may be one or two advertised, in about the right size, from around the country. There may be zero. If there are a couple available somewhere, it may be very difficult to verify the condition of either bike, in any careful way, before buying. Also, because the Ottrot is a custom frame, either the damaged bike or the supposed replacement bike may deviate from some standard model in ways pretty significant to the injured party. Did you ask for a rock solid sprinting bike? Did the other seller ask for something comfortable for his 115 pound body on double-centuries?

So look, it's true that one might, depending on the circumstances, find a very nice substitute at a big discount over new bike pricing. It's also true that, depending on the circumstances, the damaged bike could be repaired and refinished for a great deal less than the price of a new one. It's also possible that a discounted "replacement value" ends up being a harsh fiction, one which leaves the injured party up a creek without a paddle. He cannot run down to Carmax and buy another, today, on a five-day approval period, with further warrantees.

Because actual replacement can be a sketchy process, some folks argue for, and some insurers ultimately provide, a new bike. I don't know what the circumstances warrant in the present case, or what agreement can be reached, but the notion of new replacement doesn't seem off-base to me as a general proposition.

You are starting from the assumption that Insurance has an obligation to put you on a comperable bike to the bike lost.....not so...rather they are obligated to repalce the current value of the lost item. Insurance is purly a monetary representation of the current value of the lost item. Presumably, it is a used bike & as such it has normal (or not so normal) wear and tare. Surely if he tried to sell it he couldn't get anywhere near replacement value. So why should he get a higher vale if it's damagaed than if it's sold? The fact that it is custom has nothing to do with it.

That being said, I don't disagree that you shouldn't negotiate as hard as posiible for the higest value they will settle for.....just don't start from a presumption that you deserve a brand new bike because a used bike was damaged.

Len

Dave B

05-14-2007, 12:58 PM

"just don't start from a presumption that you deserve a brand new bike because a used bike was damaged."

I don't know about that. Even if it was used, a "custom" bike will not be replaced as easily as a stock one. If the bike was truly built for the customer/rider in question then does it not logicall hold that a "replacement" be just that? Replacing the custom built bike with one from the original measurements/conditions.

The owner/rider will only benefit asthetically as the damaged bike will have cosmetic issues before the crash. I doubt it had structural damage before the crash. So replacing the bike with the exact match (structurally) is easy, but the only true benefit would be decals, chips, scratches.

I am always into sticking it to the man, however replacing a custom bike with a non custom version does nto fulfill the written obligation of the agency. You don't wreck a Lamborghini and get a Saturn as a replacement.

Ken Robb

05-14-2007, 01:08 PM

Just for fun (sort of): if he had his false teeth broken in this crash would he have to settle for a used set made for someone else, depreciated value of the used teeth, or should he get a new set that fit him? :)

Dave B

05-14-2007, 01:20 PM

excellent!!!! :beer:

Bradford

05-14-2007, 01:21 PM

When I was hit, I asked and received the full amount to replace the frame with a new frame (components were fine). They depreciated the bike but made up the difference in personal injury. This helped them because it ended their liability (once you accept a personal injury payment you can't sue for more) and it helped me because I received replacement value for my bike.

If I were you, I'd give them two choices: A) a check for replacement value of the frame and any components that were damaged paid in any combination of replacement value and personal injury that they want, or B) they can depreciate the bike and you will sue them for the injury.

If they are like the insurance company in my case, they will gladly write you a check for the full replacement value of the frame and close the issue.

Chad Engle

05-14-2007, 01:22 PM

Mr. President:

No one is proposing that he be given a stock bike for a custom. My point and Len's is that he is only owed the value of what was damaged. That value is often difficult to determine precisely, that's where the negotiation comes in.

You would not get a Saturn if you wrecked a Lambo, you would get a check for the current market value (if a total loss) or repair cost of the Lambo.

Dave B

05-14-2007, 01:52 PM

No worries, just semantics.

My point was that custom may not have the same de-value as a stock bike because techincally it is one of a kind. So normalcy may not apply. Is an insurance company going to scour the internet looking for a used Serotta O, is there a blue book authority for the devaule of bicycles, or maybe they will chose a figure they think is fair. Which then I think is when you mention the physical trama that was inflicted or the potential for tramatic stress disoreder next time you ride your bike.

No, I know you wouldn't get a Saturn. Sir Matlock, twas not my intention to offend!

When all is said and done, I hope you get everything back to normal. I have been both rewarded and given the shaft by insurance companies. I hope you are rewarded. Karma needs to prevail on this one. I bet many of you would agree.

Or I could be wrong and you should be looking at Walmart for the NEXT special! I think it has carbanium and tarbon tubes

Len J

05-14-2007, 02:03 PM

a bike is worth more wrecked than sold?

Sorry, that logic will get you no where. :no:

As someone else said, the total amount paid for the entire claim willusually allow you to replace the bike, but if you get hung up on it being a "one of a kind" you will find that the ins co has no such obligation under the policy...your recourse will be to go after the insured...good luck with that.

Negotitate in good faith knowing that they want it settled to.......but don't fool yourselve that you "deserve" replacement value...it's just not correct.

Len

zap

05-14-2007, 02:12 PM

snipped

a bike is worth more wrecked than sold?

Well, since some of us actually have experience regarding this matter, I say yes.

Serotta PETE

05-14-2007, 02:16 PM

Lets take a deap breath and go for a ride OR better yet COME TO THE SMILEY NON OPEN HOUSE :D

Hopefully we will be updated with the final outcome. Opinions and views only really count if they are of the person or company writing the check.

WINE TIME>>>>>

djg

05-14-2007, 02:22 PM

You are starting from the assumption that Insurance has an obligation to put you on a comperable bike to the bike lost.....not so...rather they are obligated to repalce the current value of the lost item. Insurance is purly a monetary representation of the current value of the lost item. Presumably, it is a used bike & as such it has normal (or not so normal) wear and tare. Surely if he tried to sell it he couldn't get anywhere near replacement value. So why should he get a higher vale if it's damagaed than if it's sold? The fact that it is custom has nothing to do with it.

That being said, I don't disagree that you shouldn't negotiate as hard as posiible for the higest value they will settle for.....just don't start from a presumption that you deserve a brand new bike because a used bike was damaged.

Len

Len

I'm not sure of the insurer's obligations, but I'm puzzled that you think that you are. If the injured party is seeking money from his (or her) own insurer, under his (or her) own insurance policy, we can guess (or not) at standard or typical insurance contract provisions, but there are particular facts we do not seem to know about the policy at issue, its terms, or the body of state law under which those terms and their application to the facts at hand might be evaluated.

If the injured party is seeking damages from the injuring party, perhaps under some state's common law of torts (perhaps modified by statute), then it may well be (I'm not pronouncing on unknown facts and circumstances, under the law of a mystery state, in a matter in which I am not involved) that the general governing principle is that injured party be made whole, just as I have suggested.

In either case, there might be some perfectly good sense to haggling a bit.

In either case, it's up to the poster to decide how to proceed, but I don't think that we do him any favors by pronouncing legal decisions that we are not really entitled to make.

benb

05-14-2007, 02:38 PM

The moral of the story is to pay for the Replacement Program on these bikes right? :P

Serotta's policy will cover you if you get beaned by a car and screwed by insurance right?

Given a $4000-6000 initial cost on the bike, a $50/yr premium and essentially a $400-600 deductible Serotta's program is a great insurance buy, much cheaper then what you will pay to insure a car that is worth $4000-6000.

Len J

05-14-2007, 02:40 PM

snipped

Well, since some of us actually have experience regarding this matter, I say yes.

but wrong.

Try again

Len

kestrel

05-14-2007, 03:06 PM

I went through this several years ago with a Cannondale. Car hit me, insurance company agreed their driver was liable.
They wanted an adjuster to see the bike and take pictures before I stripped it. I took it to my LBS and asked them to strip to the frame and inspect all parts. Pictures were taken before and after. LBS wrote an estimate saying once a bike is hit, there are no good parts, only suspect parts.
The settlement was in two parts, property damage and physical/medical damage. The LBS did a part by part cost estimate, including labor. I turned that in to the insurance company and we settled on the replacement cost of the bike, less 5% because I wanted to buy the frame and parts back. They wrote a check, no questions asked, and no counter offer. Soon after I sent in my medical bills, and they offered medical bills x 3 as a settlement. I refused to settle for almost two years waiting to see if there were any repercussions from the minor injuries. I finally countered with medical bills x 5, and they sent a release waiver and a check within 30 days.

DRZRM

05-14-2007, 03:43 PM

Someone else has probably said this, I responded without reading the whole thread. If you choose to sell a used bike, on ebay, or here or to your neighbor, you choose to accept the market value of your bike. If a driver hits you and damages your bike and s/he is found at fault, that person is responsible. Now I'm no lawyer, and this argument is exactly why I have replacement value riders on all my bikes, and you should too, but it seems to me, if your bike is destroyed through no fault of your own, the person insuring the party at fault has a responsibility to replace the item. I don't know if that's the law, but it certainly seems like the ethical ourcome.

Of course trying to apply an ethical standard to insurance companies is like trying to put lipstick on a pig, frustrating for you and it annoys the pig (I've always wanted to say that in normal e-conversation). Let me repeat, we should all have riders on our bikes with our own insurance companies.

My $.02.

I don't get this. While i understand wanting replacement value, whay is that appropriate? Presumably he was riding a used bike.....and as such should get used value.

Elaborate?

Len

As for your statement below, based on my experiences and those people around me...and based on the responses to this thread here, in most cases absolutely yes.

I understand that insurance companies want to first deny, but if you document your damages...and any shop looking at carbon involved in a crash will admit that crashed carbon can't really get the "stamp of safety and approval"...and send your bike back to Serotta for a repair estimate, it is very likely that the repairs or replacement cost will be higher than it would cost to buy another bike used. I'm not picking a fight, that just seems to be the case.

Do you have some information for us that contradicts that? You seem to feel very strongly about it.

So...a bike is worth more wrecked than sold?

Sorry, that logic will get you no where.

Len

Lanternrouge

05-14-2007, 04:22 PM

You are starting from the assumption that Insurance has an obligation to put you on a comperable bike to the bike lost.....not so...rather they are obligated to repalce the current value of the lost item. Insurance is purly a monetary representation of the current value of the lost item. Presumably, it is a used bike & as such it has normal (or not so normal) wear and tare. Surely if he tried to sell it he couldn't get anywhere near replacement value. So why should he get a higher vale if it's damagaed than if it's sold? The fact that it is custom has nothing to do with it.

That being said, I don't disagree that you shouldn't negotiate as hard as posiible for the higest value they will settle for.....just don't start from a presumption that you deserve a brand new bike because a used bike was damaged.

Len

In most states, the insurer has no obligation to anyone other than the policyholder. Your rights as an injured person are therefore against the person who hit you, even though the money will be coming from the insurance company. One should be able to get replacement value in settlement for a bike, even though one could not for a car. If your 2003 Honda is destroyed, you could without a huge burden, find one with about the same mileage and condition and buy it. You can't really do that with a high end bike, especially since there are only a finite number of a given model (and year) on the market at any given time.

Dan Le foot

05-14-2007, 04:44 PM

Get a lawyer that specializes in bike accidents. I bet that shoulder is beginning to act up.
Insurance companies are in the business of not paying claims.
Brand new bike is the mnimum you should have to accept
Best investment you can make imho.
keep us posted on what happens.
Good luck.
Dan

rwsaunders

05-14-2007, 08:10 PM

It sucks, but it's no different than if your car is totaled. You are reimbursed based on the depreciated value of the car, not the replacement value.

Look at your homeowner's policy and see if you're covered there. Or, start to hold your neck and claim that your sex life will never be the same. Perhaps John Edwards has some advice?

Peter P.

05-14-2007, 09:11 PM

"When I was hit, I asked and received the full amount to replace the frame with a new frame (components were fine). They depreciated the bike but made up the difference in personal injury. This helped them because it ended their liability (once you accept a personal injury payment you can't sue for more) and it helped me because I received replacement value for my bike.

If I were you, I'd give them two choices: A) a check for replacement value of the frame and any components that were damaged paid in any combination of replacement value and personal injury that they want, or B) they can depreciate the bike and you will sue them for the injury.

If they are like the insurance company in my case, they will gladly write you a check for the full replacement value of the frame and close the issue."

Bradford's got it right; reread his post above.

I was hit for the third time a couple years ago, so I have some experience. The insurance company split my claim with two adjusters; one for medical, the other for the bike. I got the Spanish Inquisition on the estimates for my custom bike. They depreciated it and it was clearly not enough to repair it.

Of course, all of us here don't look at our bikes like cars, and we all know if we were in a car accident, the value of our car would be depreciated therefore, why not our bikes? You have to distance yourself from viewing the bike as something special, but I still think you have a right as the injured party to expect it to be repaired/replaced to your satisfaction (re: don't look at an accident as an opportunity to finance your next super-bike).

Expect to recover the balance of your bike loss through "pain and suffering" or personal injury payments. If they send you a check and your aren't satisfied it will cover your expenses, DO NOT CASH IT. Cashing the check is tantamount to signing a waiver.

Bradford's approach is extremely sound and fair and if I had his advice available then I would have been better off.

Dave

05-14-2007, 10:14 PM

The bigger issue is that you should be getting some extra money for pain and suffering if you were broadsided with enough force to total the bike.

I had an auto/bike accident a couple of years ago, which caused about $800 in damages to my bike and clothing. My medical expenses were close to $3000, but my out of pocket was only $300. The car insurance company claimed I was equally at fault and offered to pay nothing. I got an attorney and a settlement of $12,500. Out of that, I pocketed about $6000, so I netted $4900 after expenses. That was pretty decent pain and suffering reimbursement.

Insurance companies will try to bluff you into accepting very little for a claim that's worth a lot. My home insurance company (State Farm at the time) tried to pull the same trick on me when I filed a hail damage claim. Evryone else in my neighborhood had their roof totaled. Mine was only about 60% totaled, so they wanted the roof partially reshingled. They also offered only $500 for "cosmetic damages" to a small copper roof section. When I got done with them, I increased my settlement from $2,000 to $10,000. I got $8000 for the copper roof, by submitting a bid from a local roofing company. I later found that the copper roof was really only worth half that price. I pocketed the money and changed insurance companies.

Dekonick

05-14-2007, 10:41 PM

Chad Engle

05-14-2007, 10:54 PM

Yes, they have a useful life. I don't know what it is, but they do.

sirroada

05-14-2007, 11:15 PM

Lots of headaches fighting with an insurance company. Their primary interest is to save themselves money. You could go all-american and get an attorney that specializes in bicycle accidents and sue for the replacement cost of your bike. I am not saying this is what I would do, but my serotta was over $8000 bucks and if someone hit me on it I would want it replaced. There are many cars out there that are worth less than that.

Dan Oakland

05-15-2007, 05:17 PM

If he had a prosethetic leg and it was damaged in this accident, does it also have a wear and tear devaluation? That is custom, so is a Serotta.

That is a very good analogy, Dekonick. I have a carbon/ti prosthetic leg. Can't get more custom than one of these. It also would take sveral weeks to build a new one. You think I should be compensated for having to gimp aroung during that time? Same for not having a bike to ride.

The 1st rule for the claim adjuster is to try to get the injured party to accept as low a figure as possible. The second rule is to avoid litigation at all possible cost. Gotta get a laywer to represent us on these deals. only way to level the playing field.
Dan

reef58

05-15-2007, 09:27 PM

Claims adjuster here. Although I don't handle auto claims, I do handle property damage claims from time to time.

1st, the company owes ACV. Ebay is not a good indicator of the value for Serotta frames in my opinion. A custom frame will appeal only to a limited number of people, therefore it may sell low due to the decreased bidding pool.

Some claims adjusters are jerks, some are good people. Just remember adjusters handle lots of claims on items they don't know much about. My guess is the adjuster you deal with may know very little about bikes. The adjuster may be a little taken aback when he, or she sees the estimate on the bike. As long as the proper documentation is presented, and can be verified then there should be no problem.

I can't give legal advice because I am not a lawyer, therefore it is a no no, but I would suggest you look into them paying for things such as lost wages from work, and a little pain and suffering if you were dinged up a little. Most adjusters are willing to help you out as long as they can document the file, and you are reasonable.

Good luck,
Richard