Look Pedals

[tch]

OK, I'm dumb.
Now that that is out of the way, I need some information cuz I can't seem to find it easily anywhere else. I have the "old" Look pedals (c. 2003) that take the red cleats. I am beginning to think they are wearing out -- I get squeaking off the platform even with new cleats and they look beat out and the ridges are starting to disappear.
That said, I was thinking about buying some new ones until I discovered that many, many Look pedals are now the "Keo" style. Are the old ones outdated and essentially gone? (although clearly you can still buy some models in various places). Is Keo the single new standard? Or is Look still making both styles and supporting them fully? Any advantages to the Keo pedal/cleat?

Bottom line: I have two bikes and sometimes loan one to friends and supply them with shoes too; is it worth it to convert both bikes with two new sets of pedals or should I just buy some closeout of the old style and be happy?
Advice?

[93LegendTG]

I started riding Looks right after Hinault and Lemond started using them and rode them exclusively until about two years ago. The Look "squeak" became too much for me after one ride and I changed over to the new Times. (I never remember the older Looks squeaking, but I found the newer generations of the old style unbearable). I'm happy I made the change. No squeak and the pedal spindle distance to the shoe is much less. I cann't comment on the Keo, Look lost a long time user because of their squeak and I have no interest in going back.

[Erik.Lazdins]

OK Maybe I'm dumber because I can't answer your question yet feel compelled, driven even, to post a response!

I went to the KEO style about 2 years ago and now need to replace the bodies as I'm experiencing squeak and a general sloppy feel even with new cleats.

The pedals wear out, your conundrum is that you have 2 sets - and to that I don't know what to offer other than... I'm getting more KEO pedals. They are great, comfortable, quiet, and do all that a pedal should do without any of the useless junk marketing built in for no apparent reason.

[David Kirk]

If you can swing it it would be much better to go with a new style look Keo or a Time or almost anything.

Those old school looks have one of the tallest stack heights of any pedal made. Going to a new style pedal will allow you to drop both the saddle and the bars a good bit.......it will also get rid (or at least reduce) the rocking torque of that stilt type pedal.

You will notice and like the difference. The new ones are really better.

Dave

[LH2]

Since Looks are already being discussed, rather than start a new thread, I'll ask here.

I've ridden mostly Speedplay X-series, since switching from Times. What differences would I notice with the Keos compared to Speedplay, other than being single-sided? Spring tension float?

[Ray]

Since Looks are already being discussed, rather than start a new thread, I'll ask here.

I've ridden mostly Speedplay X-series, since switching from Times. What differences would I notice with the Keos compared to Speedplay, other than being single-sided? Spring tension float?
No, the Looks float isn't self-centering (spring tension). It's free until you get to the disengagement area and only then does the spring engage. The Times ARE sprung and self-centering, but all except the cheapest ones have adjustable spring tension and the light setting is pretty light. But NONE of them are as slippery feeling as Speedplay. The Looks are free floating but there's some friction between the cleat and the pedal, so it'll turn when you want to turn it, but it won't feel like its sliding around.

I also find that both Look and Time feel like a more supportive platform than Speedplay, but others don't have that feeling, so YMMV.

-Ray

[TAW]

I had the Look 396 (?) and like others, could not endure the squeaking. I tried everything to get rid of the noise, from lube, to soap on the pedals, to new cleats and nothing would stop it. It's my understanding that the new cleats are designed not to squeak. Erik can probably answer that better.

The advantages of Time/Look over Speedplay in my opinion are:
1. Better feeling platform
2. You don't have to lube them after 1-2 rides
3. You don't have to loctite the screws to keep the cleats in place

Maybe I'm missing the boat on Speedplays, or I just didn't give them enough of a chance.

[regularguy412]

I had a similar dilemma last year ,,after getting back on the CSi (6 years removed from the last ride). I had been riding Shimano DA 7401's ( made by Look but with Shimano badging -- the triple bearing pedals). I have 2 sets of these -- each with about 30,000 miles on them. I never really had any long-term problems with squeak. A bit of Tri-flo on the contact surfaces solved the problem. Squeaky cleats usually also meant that it was nearly time for them to be replaced, anyway.

Anyway,, one of the tension springs in one of the right-side pedals was broken and the tension was only about half what it should have been. I was a little afraid that it would prematurely release in a sprint- so I wanted to change. I looked around and chose the Ritchey Pro Peloton pedals, since I really didn't want to get used to a new pedal/cleat system. BIG mistake. The Pro Pelotons have a spindle that is only press-fit. There appears to be no real fastening system holding the pedal body on the spindle. The whole body came off the right spindle my first time I started up from a stopsign only one block from my house. I nearly crashed in the middle of the highway. Sorry to digress,, but just wanted to put out a heads-up about the Pro Pelotons.

My old 7401's have bascially NO wear on the top of the platform, even after all those miles. I think this is due to the fact that I have always used cleats with no float. I'm still using the oldest pair on my Cannondale and the newer pair on my TG. When I sent the Pro Pelotons back, I decided to go with the Campy Pro Fits. They were slightly lighter and had a full metal platform surface ( that the new Shimano SL's now have).

I think the new SL's or Keo's would be an acceptable replacement. That said, I've had no real trouble getting used to the Campy Pro Fits, even though the clip-in target is a bit smaller on the Campys. When my old 7401's finally die, I'll probably go with SL's for their slightly wider platform.

Mike in AR

[Mud]

with the noise. I tried the Keos but the best part of the 396s was the release and the Keos and my feet did not sync up. I use an Eggbeater Candy pedal with the zero float cleat. You get a large platform because of the design and it releases very easily. I have not tried the Time pedals but appreciate the comments here.

[SPINDAWG]

On my 40 mile ride this morning, aboard my '05 Dream using the Time RXS pedals...you want to know what I heard?! Other than the usual barking dogs..passing cars..and ooooohing school girls...absolutley nothing from the bike.

I run Look Keos on my other 4 bikes and have grown accustomed to the Look sqeak... just accepted it as a ugly fact of life. The grass is green...the sky is blue...the water is wet and Look pedals sqeak!!

I was really hoping that when they came out with the Keos and the new teflon added cleats,that the sqeak was killed. 15,000 miles and several cans of Pledge dusting spray later the noise still lives on all my bikes that have these pedals.

I came to the conclusion this morning that all my bikes will be eventually switched over to the Times and thats all I have to say 'bout that.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . with a small piece of sandpaper. At least on my LOOK's, I traced the squeak to a black buildup at the contact points. I have heard differing opinions as to where it comes from. One thought is that it's just dirt that is solidified from the constant pressure at the contact points. Someone else suggested it was built up tarnish from corrosion on the aluminum of the pedal at the contact point.

No matter what it it, though, all I do is make sure to sand any black build-up off the contact points on the bottom and front of the cleat and pedal periodically and no more squeak.

For the time being I'm planning to stay with the old LOOK's. I have half a dozen pairs of shoes to buy cleats for and the older style LOOK's seem to be both plentiful and reasonably priced on eBay.

BBD

[CNY rider]

with the noise. I tried the Keos but the best part of the 396s was the release and the Keos and my feet did not sync up. I use an Eggbeater Candy pedal with the zero float cleat. You get a large platform because of the design and it releases very easily. I have not tried the Time pedals but appreciate the comments here.


Mud what shoes are you using with your Candies?

I'm using old Looks on my Serotta; everything else has gone over to Candies.

Don't ask me why but I have never had a squeak problem with the Looks. I started transitioning to Candies because I needed a pedal that would allow me to wear a shoe I could walk into work with. I put the Candies on the commutocross and got a fairly budget pair of Shimano shoes (M120 maybe?) to go with them. So far so good but I"m not sure they will be rigid enough on long rides like my old Looks are.

[Grant McLean]

OK, I'm dumb.

That said, I was thinking about buying some new ones until I discovered that many, many Look pedals are now the "Keo" style. Are the old ones outdated and essentially gone? (although clearly you can still buy some models in various places). Is Keo the single new standard? Or is Look still making both styles and supporting them fully? Any advantages to the Keo pedal/cleat?


The "old" cleat is called the delta. It's still for sale, and will likely always be.
It's now got teflon contact points in the "bi-material" version, and so it
looks like the Keo cleat, but the Keo is smaller, and does not work in the
original pedals.

http://www.excelsports.com/new.asp?page=8&description=Cleats+Bi-material&vendorCode=LOOK&major=5&minor=6

g

[Ray]

I've definitely experienced the Look squeak, so I know how bad it can be. But its not inevitable. I've found two pretty cheap Looks that don't squeak. First, I have a couple of sets of the old Shimano Looks, I think Ultegra level. Heavy as boat anchors by todays standards but they've never squeaked. Also, I've had a few sets of the ultra-low-end 206s. Nothing adjustable except release tension and relatively cheap bearings. But plastic bits between the pedal and cleat that NEVER squeak. I'd bet some of the carbon pedals wouldn't squeak either - I think it was mostly the cleat on aluminum that caused it - but I've never ponied up for any of those.

-Ray

[michael white]

I agree with Dave on the Shimano Looks: those were terrific. They had some sort of epoxy finish which was about as durable as anything.

I use old Looks on about 4 bikes. I don't have a major problem with squeak; the contact surfaces are actually small and fairly easily cleaned. I'll go to Keos someday.

[-dustin]

the spring tension float (Time RXS) that some of you guys refer to...is that like Crank Brother's float? While I love Egg Beaters, I was thinking about trying something else. I love CB's float, though, and don't care to ride another cleat that doesn't have the same 'feel'.

[Too Tall]

BBDave is correct and some maintenence keeps these fine pedals working squeak free. Change is bad. If your body was used to them and they worked, stick with it! I tried the new shimano pedals and they killed my knees!!! After alot of head scratching I figured the problem out...they were TOO F'IN PRECISE!!! Some slop is a good thing and so are plastic cleats that will shatter in a crash and save you joints...the red cleats are made to do that. These are genius design. Don't throw the baby out with the bath yo.

Here are some number to stare at. I don't find stack height a very compelling argument for change on this scale:

Speedplay Zero 11.5mm
7750 SPD-SL 13.93mm
Time Impact Mag 14.56mm
Look CX-7 23.6mm
Look Keo 15.7 (Pedal axle - crank arm distance : 53 mm )
Look old style 21.6

[bcm119]

Ray is right about the squeek-- its a material thing. I've ridden almost every model Look and the only ones that don't squeek are the carbon-bodied models and the plastic 206's. The 206's are entry-level and the tension doesn't go high enough to be safe in a sloppy sprint, so I use the carbon cx-6's. Carbon bodies + the bi-material cleat = no squeek.

changing pedal systems is a big deal, traumatic on the body and a big investment if you have a few bikes. I'll stick with the old looks until I can't find cleats any longer.

[bostondrunk]

I'm with Too Tall (not physically...).
If the old Looks, PP296/396 works great for ya, then don't feel that you have to switch. The weight reduction of newer pedals ain't gonna win you any races, and the stack height won't either.
I was a huge fan of PP296's, and have a small stash of them, along with about 10 new sets of red cleats for them, but I recently changed to the Look Keo carbon/ti's, mostly in an effort to finally get rid of the squeaking cleats. So far they are working great, and the float feels very similar to the PP296's to me. And I too like the red float cleats, but I move around a lot on my saddle due to some hip issues, so the float helps allow for that. Most people I know go with the grey keo cleats.
I hated the time RXS's, and have a set with 10 miles of indoor use on them (carbon/cromo) if anyone is interested.....

[BdaGhisallo]

SPD-SL! That is the answer that you are looking for! The best pedal system going, bar none!

[Too Tall]

The last decent look pedal (old style) they made was the A5.1 and that has a very good retention spring AND great surface treatment to prevent squeaks. They are "out there" if you want. Drunkman, when my stash of 10 sets of cleats gets thin I'll send you a case of shiner bock?

[Ray]

SPD-SL! That is the answer that you are looking for! The best pedal system going, bar none!
I believe the overwhelming point here is that there is no ONE answer or BEST pedal system. There are some good choices and if you find the one that works best for you, good on ya.

I've been using Looks for years. I've tried Time, Shimano, and Speedplay and even Keo and NONE of them feel as right to me as the old style Looks. The stack height doesn't seem to bother me, even though I've been repeatedly told it should. Does this mean that the Looks are the best pedal system, bar none? Nope. Just the best for me.

-Ray

[bostondrunk]

The last decent look pedal (old style) they made was the A5.1 and that has a very good retention spring AND great surface treatment to prevent squeaks. They are "out there" if you want. Drunkman, when my stash of 10 sets of cleats gets thin I'll send you a case of shiner bock?

Deal. And if you are looking for Look 5.1's, Probikekit.com has lots of them for about $75.

I tried the new shimano's, I didn't like the feel of the float, preferred the Looks.