An Apology

[Kahuna]

Dear Folks,

It seems I have really stirred up a hornet's nest of controversy by making my proposal. I now realize the mistake I made by posting my thoughts to the forum before speaking to Ben and for this, I'm truly sorry. After all, without Ben's approval nothing changes and therefore I felt there was no harm done, only dialog. In retrospect, the correct order would have been to approach Serotta with my idea first and then poll the community. I screwed up I'm sorry but above all, I was not trying to rally the troops and start a revolt.

Everyone here needs to know one thing. My sole motivation and intention for proposing the idea was nothing less than honorable. That is, I thought it was a way to help increase participation and membership in the forum, solve a fundamental problem that was previously communicated to me, and finally - as a beneficial side-effect, SELL MORE BIKES FOR SEROTTA!

To those who have either suggested or insinuated that I had some kind of hidden agenda driving this, you're dead wrong and that kind of cynicism hurts. Anyone who knows my history with these forums should know better and I'm thankful that group includes the vast majority of you who have graciously and rightfully given me the benefit of the doubt.

Dave N. you are a special case and I will address your "Polite rejoinder" comments offline. Other than correctly pointing out the innapropriatess of my raising the subject, I feel you - more so than anyone else - have misinterpreted and miscommunicated so many aspects of the issue, that it would be further innapropriate of me to mention them here.

As for joining forces, I'm changing my "yes" vote to "no" and asking that we please simply drop the issue altogether. Chalk this one up to a good idea that was badly executed, poorly timed, and therefore rendered null and void.

Now back to your regularly scheduled program...

Aloha and Mele Kalikimaka! (Merry Christmas in Hawaiian) :)

Gary (Kahuna)

[bulliedawg]

You're a class act -- 100%

and sic'em out there on the big island

[sellsworth]

How anyone could interpret Kahuna's intentions as selfish is beyond me.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . to get your new forums off to a good start with some established participants. You investigated the obvious path to do that, by asking if anyone here were interested. I see nothing wrong with that. Should you have talked to Ben first? Probably. But that is a minor point to me--a simple error in judgement, not an ulterior motive of any sort.

I think you are correct to let it drop here. But I feel your idea of reaching out across the web to promote your new forums is a good one. There are numerous blogging sites that I am sure would list your forums. Bikesutra.com comes to mind. Trying to get some promotion out of various online publications such as cyclingnews.com, velonews, various mtb sites, Bicycling, Cycling+, ProCycling, and many other publications with online presences would also probably be productive.

You are doing the best you can to allow as many cyclists as possible to have a way to discuss important issues and exchange information that can enrich their enjoyment and achievement in cycling. You have done this as a service to all of us, without pay, with considerable investment in time, sweat, and dollars, and excercising the best judgement you how.

For all of this you deserve our profuse thanks. What you do NOT deserve is any of the grief that has been given to you on this new forum for making what was an innocent, well-intentioned suggestion.

Thank you for your dedication, your labor, and your goodwill toward cycling and Serotta. A bookmark for BikeFanClub will occupy a prominent place in my browser.

BBDave

[Bill Bove]

Gary,

You did us all a big favor in the past and we thank you for it. Your baby has grown up and where it has Ben's name on it he should be watchful of what it becomes, that and only that was my reason for voting no on the move. Well the banana's that Ben bribed me with help too. Damn, I love them freaking things:banana:

[M_A_Martin]

Just Thanks.

Happy Holidays!:)

[Len J]

have no fear of time.

You are, and have always been, a class act.

Merry christmas to you & yours.

Len

[Smiley]

in you asking , I thought all along Ben and you would make a common forum together. Oh well, that said I can't ask Ben to move it when he gave it back to us. Good holiday to you and yours.

[larryp2]

I as well understood and appreciated what you intended.....

[Sandy]

I have not posted on the Serotta forum for about 4 days. Today I read over the majority of posts that were related to your inititial post, Kahuna. I understand that you want to drop the matter, at this point, and I understand that, but you initiated and helped perpetuate the thoughts within the threads relating to incorporating the Serotta Forum with your other bike forums. Personally, I have a great deal of respect for both you and dnovo, but you did level a parting shot at Dave, with your apology and I don't feel that was necesary. It could have and probably should have been all been done off the forum. So please let us be fair to all, even those that might disagree with you. I will not use paragraphs here since I am still having trouble with posting threads here. Kahuna, you gave, along with Ben Serotta, a true gift to me. The "previous" forum alllowed me, as does this one, to be creative in my own way with my silly little posts and my banter with Kevan and others. It allowed me to learn a great deal about Serottas, other bikes, cycling, and many other aspects of cycling, and about life and people. Without the forum, Steel Serotta Sandy never would have bought the Serotta Ottrott ST, which after 399 milkes thus far, I can say, without reservation, is an astonishingly wonderful bicycle, and I will enjoy, hopefully, many happy years on it. More importantly, your and Serotta's forum has given me Smiley, the First Mate, Spectrum Bob and Mrs. Spectrum Bob, Flydhest and the Doctor, Keno, Kevan, Pete, Spoke, Don,Marvl,......, and those that I have never met like Shino, M A Martin,BigMac,dbrk,Kevin, Shazer,........ The forum has simply added immeasurably to my life with non-replaceable friendships. I cannot replace Smiley or Spectrum Bob or Kevan (I am trying here) etc. I will always be grateful to you for your efforts. They were absolutely wonderful, producing simply superior resuts. However, Dave has added a great deal to this forum also, being easily one of the most proficient, prolific, articulate, and most helpful contributors. He was viciously and unfairly attacked by a few trolls. Both you and he were great positves to the forum. What was very, very clear to me, from the very beginning of your effort to get the Serotta forum moved to your bike site, was that you OBVIOUSLY were approaching the wrong entity. It is and always will be Serotta's forum and how and through whom they want their forum to operate, is , like it or not, Serotta's and in particular, Ben Serotta's choice, period, end of story. How or why you would go to the Serotta posters initially simply amazes me. I have no idea of the relationship between you, Serotta, or Dave, but, he sure made a lot of sense to me, and had the strength and courage to make his thoughts clear. He has the total right to do that on this forum. What is much less clear to me is the relationship between you, Serotta, and Ben Serotta, which is not my business, nor do I care to even know. What is clear to me, and should have been crystal clear to you, is that the forum is Serotta's so that is to whom you had to go. You are obviously a very bright individual, who has genuinely added, through the forum, immensely to the quality of my life, and I will always be grateful to you for what you have helped give me. I said in the past that I would contribute to the Lance Armstrong Foundation, which my lazy butt has not done yet, but I will. Perhaps others will do the same to show their appreciation for your monumental efforts and give simultaneously to a wonderful and deserving charity. I totally respect both you and Dave, so let's be fair to all. Your approach on the Serotta forum issue was the only time that I thought you were aimed in the wrong direction, and it made me question the relationship that you have with Serotta and Mr. Ben Serotta. I really will always be available to either you or Dave if I can ever be of assistnce. Respectfully, sincerely, and with genuine appreciation to you, Kahuna- STill Serotta Sandy

[Kevin]

Serotta Sandy the Scholar,

You took the words right out of my mouth. I only wish that I had the time to write such a wonderful piece. However, I have children that are almost asleep so I need to put on my Santa hat and assemble gifts. Merry Christmas to all.

Kevin

[shinomaster]

Sandy rules!

[Kevan]

That's New Yorkese for:

Gary, we love ya. Merry Christmas and the happiest of New Years to you and your family.

How you've withstood any of us is beyond me. You must ride a lot!!!

Kevan

[Kevan]

Your reference to me wasn't lost.

I love you too buddy!

[cycledoc]

Kahuna,

I have quietly appreciated your tireless (and seemingly selfless)efforts to maintain the "old" Serotta (and Calfee, Spectrum et al) phorum. It was the best of breed by light years--trolls and all!! Now seems an appropriate time for a much belated, but well deserved, vote of support and a deeply felt "thank you " for all of your efforts. You have NOTHING to apologize for. I, for one, have no doubts about your motivations.

I think your proposal is inspiring and would approximate the wonderful thing we had--the free and unrestricted exchange of ideas, opinions, information, at times loosely, related to cycling in general and Serotta bicycles in particular. I miss the old phorum deeply and although I appreciate that what we currently have here is "better than nothing", it is a mere shadow of it's former self and has been "dumbed down", restricted, or tamed to a point bordering on irrelevancy.

Not being privy to the forces which resulted in the abrupt collapse of the "old" phorum, one is left to speculate as to the root causes, but I suspect that fear of litigation may have played a role and if so, that is an unfortunate commentary on our society.

I saw nothing akin to shouting "fire" in a crowded theater, and although some of the posters were at times discourteous and unpleasantly personal in their comments, the openness of the "old phorum" had a vigor, a vitality and excitement to it which is presently lacking. I can only hope for a return to the good old days warts (trolls) and all.

Happy Holidays to you and all phorum participants and lurkers (you know who you are)

[BumbleBeeDave]

You da MAN, Kahuna!:cool:

BBDave