"Attempted Doping"

[David Kirk]

You got to be kidding me. That is weak.

Dave

[Delpo]

You got to be kidding me. That is weak.

Dave

Agree that is as lame as lame gets. When you scratch the surface it gets even scarier. Bassos's brain " I'll call this Dr. Fuentes guy that everyone talks about and give him my dog's name as a code name, no one will figure it out. I'll then get on a plane to Madrid, have him take my blood, just in case I need it to win the first Tour de France without Lance." Basic flaws in the argument.

1. Basso goes mano a mano with Lance on the mountains without dope but needs it to win a tour without Lance?

2. Basso has Dr. Fuentes on speed dial "just in case"?

3. Basso is the new patron but needs to react to others doping?

What a joke.

[Onno]

Yes, so much for our hope of someone big really coming clean. I'd rather he continue to deny the whole thing than come up with this lame defense.

[Climb01742]

it is a transparent attempt to protect his giro win in 06 yet try to get clemency so he can race in 08.

[BarryG]

The "I didn't inhale" defense always makes me nostalgic. :rolleyes:

[Erik.Lazdins]

It is a spin control attempt to protect the very cool 2006 Giro d'Italia trophy Birillo won by 9 minutes. Simoni called him extra-terrestrial and got skewered for it.

I would think Basso loses the Giro trophy.

Basso stinks, Riis stinks, the whole system stinks.


Why doesn't Basso sign with a team as the unknown cyclist and ride with a paper bag over his head. Chuck Barris could be the DS.

It would be a hoot.

[David Kirk]

Wipe out everything above Cat. 2 and make them all test before moving up. I can live without a Tour for a year or two.

Dave

[david]

did you see the video?
there's a scene that takes place just after a stage where basso has failed to take back time on armstrong.
basso and riis sit in a hotel room, discouraged.
despite basso riding very hard, riis says to him, "it's just not good enough."
take a look at the expression on basso's face.
what do you suppose was going through his mind?
attempted doping?
yeah, sure.

[Louis]

I'm surprised that folks still care about racing and that they are surprised when another present-day racer's name comes up dirty.

I've given up caring about this a long time ago, and nothing will surprise me anymore. For all I know Lemond might have been one of the worst offenders. I have no real evidence one way or the other, and he may claim that he is clean, but all we can do is take his word for it. I have no expectations for pro racing (other than bad things) so they can't surprise me or let me down.

Well, I take that back. If you were to tell me that Anquetil doped using something more than wine, nicotine or caffeine I would be surprised, but IMO anything is possible in today's game.

Louis

[Elefantino]

"I am fully aware that an attempt at doping is tantamount to doping, but I am asking to be excused for this and that should be enough."

Huh?

In a weird corollary to the Peter Principle, people apparently rise to the level of their own delusion.

[Sandy]

Wipe out everything above Cat. 2 and make them all test before moving up. I can live without a Tour for a year or two.

Dave

I guess I will be safe for a while. :)


Cat. 44 Sandy

[Buzz]

Wipe out everything above Cat. 2 and make them all test before moving up. I can live without a Tour for a year or two.

Dave

You are right. Something needs to be done. Cycle racing is killing itself as this drags out year after year.

[learlove]

Dear Mr. Pro Cyclist,

Please stop f@cking up OUR sport.


Sincerely,

Mr. Former racer (track/road/cross)/current avid rider/cycling sport fan

[skyflash]

Well, I take that back. If you were to tell me that Anquetil doped using something more than wine, nicotine or caffeine I would be surprised, but IMO anything is possible in today's game.

Louis


Famous Anquetil quote: “Did you really expect to ride up those mountains on mineral water?”

[bostondrunk]

Why is Hamilton being shafted out of the Giro? I thought the fact that he was already serving a suspension when all this came about protected him from further penalty, no?

[BarryG]

Wipe out everything above Cat. 2 and make them all test before moving up. I can live without a Tour for a year or two.I'd agree, but blood doping is still unlikely to cause a positive doping test, unless there's a major f-up, a la Tyler. Daily hematocrit testing would show the blood doping, but that's not practical.

[J.Greene]

I'm surprised that folks still care about racing
Louis

I've started racing again after a very long break. Everything about local racing is fun. I'd encourage everyone to get involved in at least doing your local tt series for kicks, it does not have to be serious. And if racing is not your thing, kick in a few bucks to your local road or cross team. The kids will appreciate it. Think global act local atmo.

JG

[Bill D]

I don't know what's worse: that doping is apparently so rampant in pro cycling or that the UCI, WADA, and various national authorities are so bad at fighting it in a way that has any semblance of legitimacy. The authorities regularly over-react by preventing riders from racing based purely on suspicion, and then they under-react by obviously failing to catch so many dopers in the act. To make matters worse, they just make themselves look like a bunch of bumbling idiots by leaking confidential info to the press or making inflammatory public statements that are inconsistent with their role as supposedly unbiased authority, or all sorts of other things that make cycling and anti-doping authorities look completely unprofessional.

So I'm not even sure DK's suggestion of starting over by getting rid of all current riders would even work. I think you would also have to get rid of everyone at WADA, USADA, the Operacion Puerto authorities, blah blah blah. It's really disheartening to think how widespread and systemic the problems are in cycling.

Then again, it's just a sport. Screw 'em all! :p
-bd

[swoop]

Why is Hamilton being shafted out of the Giro? I thought the fact that he was already serving a suspension when all this came about protected him from further penalty, no?


there's no point in going there.... he's a million miles from grand tour form anyway. and with puerto going on.. i'm willing to bet we've seen the last of him.
so.. he doesn't have the fitness to ride the giro right now. he's in puerto on top of that.

[Avispa]

....Why doesn't Basso sign with a team as the unknown cyclist and ride with a paper bag over his head. Chuck Barris could be the DS....

LOL!!! LOL!!!!

Wipe out everything above Cat. 2 and make them all test before moving up. I can live without a Tour for a year or two.


Now, fom my other post, here! (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=345313&postcount=57)

[Avispa]

Then again, it's just a sport. Screw 'em all! :p


Well, bro.... part of the problem is that stuff like this goes on besides sports!

I promise you, I did not inhale......

I hate to bring this up, but look at what is happening elsewhere! Iraq, fixed-up voting machines, may I say more...

Cheers bro, enjoy your bike ride while it is cool* enough!



*before global warming makes us all tan n toasty!

[Karin Kirk]

*before global warming makes us all tan n toasty!

Dude, you are tan-n-toasty already!
Just watch out for sea level rising and wiping out all your favorite roads.

[Avispa]

Dude, you are tan-n-toasty already!
Just watch out for sea level rising and wiping out all your favorite roads.

Dudette,

Will you have space for me, the wife and cats in Bozeman? We will take the dog house if we have to....

I promise I won't ever bring that other topic (about big thighs) anymore! :D :D

[znfdl]

I promise you, I did not inhale......

[BdaGhisallo]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190111108152&ssPageName=ADME:B:EF:US:2

Here's something for those of us who have to get everything the professionals use! Don't waste your money on Lew or Lightweight wheels - waste it on these!

[93legendti]

I'm surprised that folks still care about racing and that they are surprised when another present-day racer's name comes up dirty.

I've given up caring about this a long time ago, and nothing will surprise me anymore. For all I know Lemond might have been one of the worst offenders. I have no real evidence one way or the other, and he may claim that he is clean, but all we can do is take his word for it. I have no expectations for pro racing (other than bad things) so they can't surprise me or let me down.

Well, I take that back. If you were to tell me that Anquetil doped using something more than wine, nicotine or caffeine I would be surprised, but IMO anything is possible in today's game.

Louis

Anquetil: "You don't ride the Tour on mineral water."

Not directed at you Louis, but sometimes it sounds like people think doping started in the '90's. Read up on the '78 TdF (the race leader was tossed for having a vial under his shirt with aonther person's urine for the doping control), the Giro where Eddie was tosssed for doping (yes, he said he was innocent) and Tom Simpson's death on the Ventoux.

[michael white]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190111108152&ssPageName=ADME:B:EF:US:2

Here's something for those of us who have to get everything the professionals use! Don't waste your money on Lew or Lightweight wheels - waste it on these!


Talk about a scandal--let's talk about those inflated shipping charges on Ebay!

best,
mw

[BumbleBeeDave]

I'm surprised that folks still care about racing and that they are surprised when another present-day racer's name comes up dirty.

I've given up caring about this a long time ago, and nothing will surprise me anymore. For all I know Lemond might have been one of the worst offenders. I have no real evidence one way or the other, and he may claim that he is clean, but all we can do is take his word for it. I have no expectations for pro racing (other than bad things) so they can't surprise me or let me down.

Well, I take that back. If you were to tell me that Anquetil doped using something more than wine, nicotine or caffeine I would be surprised, but IMO anything is possible in today's game.

Louis

I find it very difficult to care about professional cycling anymore. All the parties involved--the riders, WADA, the UCI, and team managment and sponsors--have conspired to beat any sense of caring out of me. It's an interesting spectacle to watch, but the only "sport" left for me is trying to figure out exactly what each rider is using. Very sad . . .

BBD

[chakatrain]

I'm late to the thread, but just read the article.

I'm just disappointed that he floats the lame excuse. He should admit what he's done, completely and thoroughly, and let the punishment fall where it may. Reminds me a lot of Barry Bonds, actually.

Just tell the truth, silly man.

[Bill D]

Well, bro.... part of the problem is that stuff like this goes on besides sports!

I hate to bring this up, but look at what is happening elsewhere! Iraq, fixed-up voting machines, may I say more...



Obviously cheating and general idiocy occur outside of sports, too. My last point was just that I'm not going to get very worked up about pro cycling being such a disaster because it's just not all that important in the grand scheme of things. Pro cycling is interesting to me--previously for sporting reasons, but more and more just for the perverse amusement that's like watching a train wreck in slow motion. But my point--and yours, too, I think--was that there are much more important problems in the world than this. It just happens that this is a cycling-related forum, so we end up talking about cycling, ya know? :beer: Bigger picture, there are cheaters and idiots in just about every walk of life. Sometimes the consequences are small and sometimes they're much bigger (see, e.g., Iraq and arguably American foreign policy generally in recent years, to the extent we have a coherent foreign policy at all, but that's a whole 'nother topic).

-bd

[Elefantino]

I find it very difficult to care about professional cycling anymore. All the parties involved--the riders, WADA, the UCI, and team managment and sponsors--have conspired to beat any sense of caring out of me. It's an interesting spectacle to watch, but the only "sport" left for me is trying to figure out exactly what each rider is using. Very sad . . .

BBD

I dunno. I hate all the jerks, too, but there's something still exciting about watching it. I still watch Stage 17 from last year's Tour over and over while I'm on the trainer, even though the effort may have been/was fueled by a T-bag on the man bag.

Of course, had I known beforehand, maybe I'd have recorded bull riding instead.

[Frog Hair]

Its moments like this (I guess by now though, its really added up to be more than a moment) that make me recall the true joy of cycling.

When I was a child riding my bike, every time I turned that crank I experienced pure joy. There was the occassional crash, like the first time I tried to ride with no hands or the failed jump at the plywood ramp leaning against a cinder block. I had no idea who these "pro riders" were. Nor did I care. Heck, I really did'nt care about the next kid on the block (unless he had a cooler bike than me, which was usually the case). I just enjoyed the sheer act of riding.

I still find that the best rides are often all alone. I know all the little cracks and potholes in my neighborhood (just like I did when I was 10). I get a little shot of adrenaline when I get chased by a dog. A friendly wave to another cyclist going the other way (except those darn tri-guys. always so serious and tucked in tight to those aero-bars. :) ) And I don't usually find myself thinking about what the pros are doing while I am out riding. An occassional red-neck driver may shout my name (but he always gets it wrong...I am not Lance Armstrong!) But thats about as much time as I spend thinking about a pro any more. Following the pros is about as much fun as following the local evening news. There is always a disappointing story just around the corner.

I feel something, although I do not know if it pity for these "pros." Whatever it is that makes them feel like they needed to take the path of cheating...well...dang.

For the rest of us, just keep enjoying the ride.

[soulspinner]

Its moments like this (I guess by now though, its really added up to be more than a moment) that make me recall the true joy of cycling.

When I was a child riding my bike, every time I turned that crank I experienced pure joy. There was the occassional crash, like the first time I tried to ride with no hands or the failed jump at the plywood ramp leaning against a cinder block. I had no idea who these "pro riders" were. Nor did I care. Heck, I really did'nt care about the next kid on the block (unless he had a cooler bike than me, which was usually the case). I just enjoyed the sheer act of riding.

I still find that the best rides are often all alone. I know all the little cracks and potholes in my neighborhood (just like I did when I was 10). I get a little shot of adrenaline when I get chased by a dog. A friendly wave to another cyclist going the other way (except those darn tri-guys. always so serious and tucked in tight to those aero-bars. :) ) And I don't usually find myself thinking about what the pros are doing while I am out riding. An occassional red-neck driver may shout my name (but he always gets it wrong...I am not Lance Armstrong!) But thats about as much time as I spend thinking about a pro any more. Following the pros is about as much fun as following the local evening news. There is always a disappointing story just around the corner.

I feel something, although I do not know if it pity for these "pros." Whatever it is that makes them feel like they needed to take the path of cheating...well...dang.

For the rest of us, just keep enjoying the ride.


+1

[Dave B]

With all due respect to those of you who "hate pro cycling" and other issues you have with it I ask why? Because there are some athletes who cheat? Because your hero's reputation has been tainted?

Look, for those of us who have never been or never will be pros, we do not know how difficult it is to make it. Those of you trying have every right to be frustrated that cheaters keep getting picked for teams and you do not.

Either work harder or start cheating yourself. If those are the two choices then there you go. Which do you want to do?

For those of you who simply ride for enjoyment or whatver reason, shame on you for passing judgement. You as well as I have no right to judge someone's situation unless you have ridden a 100 miles in his shorts (not suggesting that).

If you do not want to watch the tour, then don't. But there are riders who ride who do not cheat, and they deserve, but more importantly need/want your support. Maybe it is time we need a new patron in the peleton. So look for one this year.

All the media covers is character defamation. Landis, Basso, Armstrong, Ullrich, Hamilton, Simioni, any one they can get a negative story or soundbite.

No wonder people are tired of procycling.

What about Zabriskie, Cruz, Hincapie, Julich, Voight, Magee or guys who may not win all the time, but still challenge. There are so many wonderful personalities in the peleton to cheer for or have as your own icon.

Working with children reinforces the fact that an adults' opinions can affect a young person more then anything I have seen. I you want to pollute the air with your negativity, be mindful of what opinions you are creating.

What a way to discourage a young rider then to say, "All pros dope"

This is like religion. Believe what you like, have faith that is strong or waivers, ask questions....just do not take everyhting at face value...learn more and interpret for yourself.

Enjoy athletes for what they are...humans workigng their literal butts off for others in hopes they too might find some personal glory.


...or I could be wrong and need to also become a cranky fan! :D

[goonster]

"I am fully aware that an attempt at doping is tantamount to doping, but I am asking to be excused for this and that should be enough."

Huh?

Classic Italian stuff.

You throw the book at the offender, and two weeks later it is all reduced to a slap on the wrist on appeal. He's not really such a bad guy, we all make mistakes, he's got a family to feed, let's just get on with life, etc.

Just look at the Parmalat finance scandal, where the buck kept getting passed around and around, and nobody really had to pay the piper. AC Milan were implicated in honest-to-goodness match fixing, but had the original penalty reduced on appeal and are now in the European Cup final.

In America, you have to go through the catharsis of rehab to be cleansed and forgiven. In Korea, you don scratchy robes and move to an unheated monastery in the hills for a year. In Italy, you put on a brand new suit, make big puppy dog eyes for the cameras, shrug your shoulders, and the shame (aka responsibility) rolls off just like that.

[Dave B]

Classic Italian stuff.

You throw the book at the offender, and two weeks later it is all reduced to a slap on the wrist on appeal. He's not really such a bad guy, we all make mistakes, he's got a family to feed, let's just get on with life, etc.

Just look at the Parmalat finance scandal, where the buck kept getting passed around and around, and nobody really had to pay the piper. AC Milan were implicated in honest-to-goodness match fixing, but had the original penalty reduced on appeal and are now in the European Cup final.

In America, you have to go through the catharsis of rehab to be cleansed and forgiven. In Korea, you don scratchy robes and move to an unheated monastery in the hills for a year. In Italy, you put on a brand new suit, make big puppy dog eyes for the cameras, shrug your shoulders, and the shame (aka responsibility) rolls off just like that.



Yeah but the Italians always do it with class! :rolleyes:

[paczki]

You can always root for the French riders -- that's what I do. The saddest thing to me in this whole mess was the conversation between Frankie Andreu and some team official, I can't remember who, where they both commiserated about how amazing it was that Christophe Moreau could place in the top ten without drugs, and how sad it was he couldn't place any higher.
Of course he's only clean because he got caught in the Festina affair!

[Dekonick]

Lets face it - as long as there is money to be made in cycling, there will be dopers. Heck, there is a problem with high school kids using steriods! HIGH SCHOOL!

It stinks.
.
.
.
.
.
but
.
.
I still love watching the pro's - :crap: :beer:

[Louis]

In Korea, you don scratchy robes and move to an unheated monastery in the hills for a year.

Big time thread drift:

Speaking of monasteries, has anyone else out there seen the movie "Into Great Silence" ? It's a documenatry about the lives of monks in a Carthusian monastery in the French alps. It's one of the most ascetic orders out there, spend most of thier time in meditation, and speak very rarely to each other, so let's just say that it's not quite the kind of movie that would appeal to the Spidey 3 crowd. The order was founded by St. Bruno of Cologne in 1084, so they've been around a while...

I enjoyed it, but have to say that I won't joining them any time soon...

A weird piece of trivia: It was directed by Philip Gröning who ages ago asked them if he could make a movie about them. Thier answer: "Now is not the appropriate time." Sixteen years later they get back in touch and say "OK, now you can make your movie." Incredible.

Louis

[david]

A weird piece of trivia: It was directed by Philip Gröning who ages ago asked them if he could make a movie about them. Thier answer: "Now is not the appropriate time." Sixteen years later they get back in touch and say "OK, now you can make your movie." Incredible.

Louis

guy comes home from work one day.
sees a snail on his front steps.
picks up the snail and tosses it in the bushes.
two weeks go by.
guy comes home from work again and there's the same snail on the same step.
snail says, "what was that all about?"

[zeroking17]

Big time thread drift:

Speaking of monasteries, has anyone else out there seen the movie "Into Great Silence" ? It's a documenatry about the lives of monks in a Carthusian monastery in the French alps. It's one of the most ascetic orders out there, spend most of thier time in meditation, and speak very rarely to each other, so let's just say that it's not quite the kind of movie that would appeal to the Spidey 3 crowd. The order was founded by St. Bruno of Cologne in 1084, so they've been around a while...

I enjoyed it, but have to say that I won't joining them any time soon...

A weird piece of trivia: It was directed by Philip Gröning who ages ago asked them if he could make a movie about them. Thier answer: "Now is not the appropriate time." Sixteen years later they get back in touch and say "OK, now you can make your movie." Incredible.

Louis

Saw Into Great Silence last night. My wife and I were spellbound by the film. No narrative synopsis can do it justice. Think: commitment, beauty, severity, discipline, serenity, stillness, and love.