OT: Minivan (or other) recommendations please...

[mass_biker]

Our beloved ~ 8 year old Toyota Sienna minivan got crushed by a tree a few weeks ago - no-one was hurt, but the vehicle is totaled. We need to replace it. It was the go-to beater, but oh-so practical in almost every regard...AWD, okay-ish fuel economy, easy enough for 5 people + dog + stuff + bikes on the rear hitch and of course, sliding doors! And now that it's gone, we need to find another people/stuff hauler to take its place.

We are focusing on buying used, and some needed functions are AWD, adaptive cruise control (we use it to go to our place in the mountains regularly, so highway driving is what it does a lot), safety features (kids...see above), and ideally Apple Airplay etc. Used ideally, as we park it on city streets (and not in the garage) so a nick here and there is quite likely in our ownership (and hopefully, no more tree embellishments).

Choices in this category (AWD) seem to be (natch) - Toyota Sienna, and Chrysler Pacifica. Anyone with first-hand experience with the 2020/2021 versions of the latter? We've always been Toyota/MB/VW folks, so my knowledge and experience with the "Stellantis" family of brands is lacking. Anything else we should consider?

[There was a moment there where I thought about using this as an opportunity to get my "van life" dream vehicle - Sprinter etc., but I think I'll have to wait until all Cost Centers are out + launched!]

Thank you in advance, oh almighty PL Hive Brain...

m_b

[AngryScientist]

lol. it sounds like you want another all wheel drive minivan, which means you want a sienna. Good luck finding one in the current market, new or used.

our odyssey is FWD and is remarkably capable in snow, never had a problem. I would hate to need to replace it right now because of how effed the auto market is.

[robt57]

lol. it sounds like you want another all wheel drive minivan, which means you want a sienna. Good luck finding one in the current market, new or used.

our odyssey is FWD and is remarkably capable in snow, never had a problem. I would hate to need to replace it right now because of how effed the auto market is.


No kidding....


I have a PHEV Pacifica. Good in snow 'NOT'. EV tires would have to come off for a winter set to see if it might be decent.

You need a 4x4 sprinter camper $240k beast obviously..

[fa63]

Not a Pacifica, but we have been driving a Dodge Grand Caravan for a couple of years now. The "Stow 'N Go" seats are amazing; we can have everything folded down in a minute and it has a huge amount of space inside; enough for me and my wife to be able to sleep comfortably when we go camping. It has also been a very reliable car so far, and I think it drives and handles very well.

[Ralph]

The Chrysler minivan's have a bad reputation with some.....maybe from years ago. But I know several people with the latest generation Pacifica, and report no particular problems. And any vehicle can have a problem with modern electronic safety features. I wouldn't be afraid of one.....especially if thousands cheaper than same year and condition Sienna. Just use the savings for an extended warranty if nervous. And those stow and go seats are wonderful.

[theboucher]

I’ve got a Previa i’ll sell you!

[Ken Robb]

You might do just fine without AWD if you have appropriate tires for the season and conditions. That would allow a better chance of finding a nice used van.

[robt57]

The "Stow 'N Go" seats are amazing; we can have everything folded down in a minute and it has a huge amount of space inside; enough for me and my wife to be able to sleep comfortably when we go camping.

To be clear, the PHEV [PluginHybrid] uses the space the middle seat would stow into, so you loose that to hybrid HV battery module.

The rear is stow/go in 15 second operation. We had a 2006 Town/County Stow and go, boy that quick convert is great. Our Pacifica middle seats are in a closet here since 12/2020 the day we picked it up.

But between the PHEV and the wife's Bolt, we use more gas in the lawn mower during mowing months. 95% of my PHEV use is under the 35 mile EV range. Without trips I go months without putting gas in it or even hearing the ICE run. Trips probably add up to 600.00 year in gas, at these bad prices.

SE of Portland to Coast trip with romping around gas cost like $25-26.00.

575 mile [with wild fire detours] Crater Lake trip $63.00 of gas, like that..

Redding CA and back $125ish. [2020 was 75.00]

It is amazing really a 2.5+ ton mini bus that fit 4x8 sheets with doors closed uses so little gas.

[p nut]

We just sold our 2017 Sienna AWD with 60k miles for $30k (to car max). We bought it for $37k 6 years ago. We had zero problems with it. Excellent van. Only nick against it is no spare tire. I’d buy another if we needed a van.

I wish the new Kia Carnival came in AWD. Love the looks of it.

[Tandem Rider]

We have a 2017 Grand Caravan, it replaced an older one that simply had too many miles to be a primary vehicle. Winter tires make it quite road worthy in winter. We put studs on in November and it does fine on weekly trips up the mountain to ski, even after a dump. Ground clearance is lacking so off-roading is a no go. As others have said, Stow and Go is phenomenal. 4 adults and a Great Dane inside with luggage is no problem. We just got back from Glacier NP area for a week. Tandem, hiking gear, snowshoes (just in case), and normal stuff all inside with plenty of room to spare. I find that the winter tires make more difference than AWD.

[Clean39T]

We just sold our 2017 Sienna AWD with 60k miles for $30k (to car max). We bought it for $37k 6 years ago. We had zero problems with it. Excellent van. Only nick against it is no spare tire. I’d buy another if we needed a van.

I wish the new Kia Carnival came in AWD. Love the looks of it.

There’s a reason CarMax and Carvana’s stock is in the clapper…. They are bagholding millions of cars they overpaid for. This isn’t going to end well. Except for those of us who sold to them in the past six months and are waiting to buy — :beer:

[robt57]

There’s a reason CarMax and Carvana’s stock is in the clapper…. They are bagholding millions of cars they overpaid for. This isn’t going to end well. Except for those of us who sold to them in the past six months and are waiting to buy — :beer:

They offered me $42,800.00 in Feb for my 2020 Pacfica PHEV. Paid about 28k, rather realized with rebates and bought it when dealers were suffering before all this nonsense. 10k off sticker, 10k in your tax dollars... My CRV/AWD only had 26k on it and I did not need a car. But the numbers worked and I had to...

But what do I do if I sell it to them?? Shopping a car now? not even with a prescription unless dire need...

[buddybikes]

They offered me $42,800.00 in Feb for my 2020 Pacfica PHEV. Paid about 28k, rather realized with rebates and bought it when dealers were suffering before all this nonsense. 10k off sticker, 10k in your tax dollars... My CRV/AWD only had 26k on it and I did not need a car. But the numbers worked and I had to...

But what do I do if I sell it to them?? Shopping a car now? not even with a prescription unless dire need...

Assume you will need to 1099K with profits realized... We won't tell...

[robt57]

Assume you will need to 1099K with profits realized... We won't tell...

Only if they PalPal me the money I think....

[HenryA]

My mini van experience is obsolete by about 20 years, but I can say that the two I had went like snowmobiles in the snow with only front wheel drive. So maybe you could widen your search to include FWD models.

[B4_Ford]

If AWD is a must and you want something that will last, get a Sienna. If you can get away with FWD and winter tires and you want something that will last, get a Sienna or an Odyssey. If you want a cheap pile of shyte, get a Chrysler product.


I have bad ideas…

[rwsaunders]

We had two Honda Odysseys over an 18 year period and they were fine in Midwest Winters if running good snow tires…in our case Bridgestone Blizzaks. I would get three Winters out of a set of tires.

[Hilltopperny]

I know Toyota and Chrysler have been collaborating for a few years now. Not sure if that translates over to the Pacifica/Sienna, but it may be the same motor and transmission in both?

We looked at both before purchasing a Venza instead. Slightly less carrying capacity, but plenty of room for 5 and some space in the rear. I think the Pacifica looked nicer and had some better options available at the time to a comparable Sienna, but I did not extensively drive either.

Sent from my SM-S127DL using Tapatalk

[baker]

We love our 2021 Sienna for a family of 5. Great features like adaptive cruise control, CarPlay, fits a lot, highly configurable for various adventures. We have the LE which allows the 8 seat configuration with a removable jump seat. For us this is preferable to the XLE which is 7 seat only with the captains chairs. And a good deal cheaper. We don’t have the AWD and traction is pretty terrible, need to try better tires.

Gas mileage is good, but not as good as claimed: 33 mpg in summer, less in colder months.

I was interested in the Pacifica PHEV but it was impossible to find anywhere. And more expensive.

[CNY rider]

I know Toyota and Chrysler have been collaborating for a few years now. Not sure if that translates over to the Pacifica/Sienna, but it may be the same motor and transmission in both?

We looked at both before purchasing a Venza instead. Slightly less carrying capacity, but plenty of room for 5 and some space in the rear. I think the Pacifica looked nicer and had some better options available at the time to a comparable Sienna, but I did not extensively drive either.

Sent from my SM-S127DL using Tapatalk

I'm pretty sure the Sienna shares a platform with multiple other Toyota hybrid vehicles (Highlander I think is one) but not with the Chrysler.
The Chrysler is a plug in.

As far as need for AWD goes, I agree good tires like Blizzaks can get you most of the way there with FWD.
We live in a rural area and have a few options to get to our house, all of which involve steep hills.
Over a 7 year period, we had our FWD Sienna get left at the bottom of our hill twice because there was no way to get it up at the time.
Not a huge number of instances but quite a hassle when it happens. Especially if young children are involved.
With the AWD Sienna we have never had that happen. The AWD Sienna with Blizzaks is not a Subaru equivalent but it's close. It's really good.

[tellyho]

As far as snow performance, I've owned several Subarus and have come to the conclusion that a FWD car with good snow tires is pretty much as solid in snow as the Subaru. All to say that you needn't necessarily feel tied to AWD if you're willing to swap tires (I'm a MA driver as well). Currently drive a Mazda 5 (truly) minivan. With snow tires in the winter :)

[p nut]

I’m in Northern Utah. I’ve made due with FWD in the past years (with good snow tires ie Blizzack, Hakka’s, etc in studded). It makes a big difference in snow (esp stopping). But there is always those handful of times during the year that it won’t do. I’ve gotten stuck several times. The global weather change seem to make it worse with the more frequent freeze/thaw/freeze cycles. We also travel to Wyoming and Colorado during the winter months. I decided it’s not worth it for us. There are really no penalties for AWD (maybe like 1 mpg but we were getting 28mpg on the highway). We switched 10 years ago and no regrets.

[benb]

Heh.. I just drove my brother's 2022 AWD Sienna Hybrid 400+ miles this weekend up to Vermont and back.

That thing is ridiculous.. it averaged 34mpg for the trip setting the cruise to 80mph on the highway (read mountains), no need to fill up over the weekend and the trip home. Tons of room. Drives itself on the highway, which is really disconcerting for someone never used to all these new computer features... the "radar cruise" is very well implemented.

They're supposedly super hard to get but if I was in the market I'd want one.

[robt57]

If AWD is a must and you want something that will last, get a Sienna. If you can get away with FWD and winter tires and you want something that will last, get a Sienna or an Odyssey. If you want a cheap pile of shyte, get a Chrysler product.


I have bad ideas…


I dunno if/why you have a specific prejudice, We've had lots of mini van from 89 thru today. Mostly the originator of the mini van, Dodge/Chrys/Plymoth. The 89 was a pile of worst shifting slug, but with kids the van part bliss in use. The next 95 Sport Voyager [a lot less of a slug] was a favorite to date. The 2006 Town/Country first stow/go, hooked. Touring model, best road car ever for trips. Thirsty bugger. PHEV is making up for that in spades.

My last older era one was a 5 spd manual with 4 cyl Mitsu engine. From the alloy head on cast iron block era. After I did the head it was great! [bought is for dirt with bad head] Had Sonoma PU/GMC from that era go thru same thing. Get the head done, another +150k of good service.

While I am not personally insulted, the PHEV is the most loaded mini van to date, and albeit new still, I could no be happier.

We had an Odyssey once too, early before they gigundaized them.. We had a 450-SLC once to. What they all had in common is they all were cars, and none to me stood above the rest.

Note: Apparently there is Voyagers again. Pacifica being the 'lux' +$50k vehicles, and the 'Voyagers' more like the Honda 'LX' trim level vehicles.

[MarkY]

I don't think you can go wrong with any of the minivans mentioned in this thread. I have had a Pacifica plug in hybrid for five years now. It is great. It's comfortable, quiet, thrifty with gas, plenty of room. We had it in the Denver area for the winters and it did fine in the snow. Must of my driving is local so gas is only used when we go on a road trip.

[robt57]

I don't think you can go wrong with any of the minivans mentioned in this thread. I have had a Pacifica plug in hybrid for five years now. It is great. It's comfortable, quiet, thrifty with gas, plenty of room. We had it in the Denver area for the winters and it did fine in the snow. Must of my driving is local so gas is only used when we go on a road trip.


What was your tire/cable/chains contingency? My 2020 PHEV on wet is bad enough. That said, my Wife's Honda 2WD Fit with real snows annihilated our CRV/AWD for traction. Especially by the 2nd winter when the CRV tires had 15k on them...

Side note: I have been saying the PHEV stops poorly. I had an idiot brake check the guy in front of me the other day. And used enough brakes to kick in ABS and take regen outta the equation. It did great, so I will stop saying that. And EV tire did fine in the panic stop too, was not sure about that prior.

[deluz]

We are on our second Sienna and it is great for trips and bikes.
I can put our tandem inside without taking off the wheel.
It is a 2010 bought it used with low mileage for $18K.
I think it had some problems we were not aware of though.
The transmission went out shortly before 60K but we were very lucky it was covered under warranty so we got a new transmission. Also the steering rack needed replacement. Likely it was in an accident that the seller did not disclose.
Still got our moneys worth as a new one was $24K at the time. Still going strong at 150K. If I were to get something new would definitely want an EV or Plug In. It's hard to find anything big enough to fit our bikes inside. My daughter recently got a new Hyundai Tucson and it is nice, they make a plug in version of it. Not quite big enough though.

[MarkY]

What was your tire/cable/chains contingency? My 2020 PHEV on wet is bad enough. That said, my Wife's Honda 2WD Fit with real snows annihilated our CRV/AWD for traction. Especially by the 2nd winter when the CRV tires had 15k on them...

Side note: I have been saying the PHEV stops poorly. I had an idiot brake check the guy in front of me the other day. And used enough brakes to kick in ABS and take regen outta the equation. It did great, so I will stop saying that. And EV tire did fine in the panic stop too, was not sure about that prior.

No snow tires or chains, just the standard tires that came with the 2017 Pacifica.

[sheepbleat]

There’s a reason CarMax and Carvana’s stock is in the clapper…. They are bagholding millions of cars they overpaid for. This isn’t going to end well. Except for those of us who sold to them in the past six months and are waiting to buy — :beer:

+1.

I’m carless because I sold high in May. Waiting to buy (and saving a lot on insurance and parking) until prices come down.

Oh, and I won’t mind if Carvana, CarMax, dealerships, and the whole Cox Automotive empire get caught out for holding said bags between now and then.

[gomango]

Heh.. I just drove my brother's 2022 AWD Sienna Hybrid 400+ miles this weekend up to Vermont and back.

That thing is ridiculous.. it averaged 34mpg for the trip setting the cruise to 80mph on the highway (read mountains), no need to fill up over the weekend and the trip home. Tons of room. Drives itself on the highway, which is really disconcerting for someone never used to all these new computer features... the "radar cruise" is very well implemented.

They're supposedly super hard to get but if I was in the market I'd want one.

11 month wait for me. On order.

Excellent vehicle for our needs. We tow a trailer with sea/fishing kayaks. No issue with this one.

In addition,we fly fish in Montana, Wyoming and Idaho, but we live in Minnesota. What a great road car, as we rented one the last three years for our western jaunts.

Plenty of room in back for a mattress and sleeping bags.

Not cheap, but that's the way she goes.

[robt57]

Heh.. I just drove my brother's 2022 AWD Sienna Hybrid 400+ miles this weekend up to Vermont and back.

That thing is ridiculous.. it averaged 34mpg for the trip setting the cruise to 80mph on the highway (read mountains)

That's about what a 400 mile 7 pass trip I've made in winter with my PHEV [hybrid do better on not cold] 34 at the low end. Cruise over passes set @ 70 mph.

Flat 400 mile trips 46-48 to the better end. It is over 2.5 tons empty, still blows me away. It is reading 56 right now. It takes a while after a trip [575 miles worth 9/10] to get back up as high as 69, best I've seen it indicate. I think is was @ 42 upon returning from 575 mile trip.

[AngryScientist]

wow!

what a crazy and wild time we are living in. a year wait for a mini van. not some low volume production sports car or specialty truck, but a mini van!

What a crappy time to need a vehicle.

What is the current problem? Is it still microchips, or shipping woes, or some combination of these? One would think a giant like Toyota could swing it's weight around and have cars to deliver to people. yikes.

[tylercheung]

i feel like part of it is minivans being not the center of priorities for automakers - they're busy cranking out those SUV's everyone is addicted to.

[alancw3]

i feel like part of it is minivans being not the center of priorities for automakers - they're busy cranking out those SUV's everyone is addicted to.

Agree. It is all about SUV's. Easier sell and more profitable.

[C40_guy]

Coworker wants to buy a new Q3. Vehicle is available, but without keyless entry and start stop due to chip shortage.

Once you've lived with these options, it's tough to go back, like to winding windows. Had a rental car with that "option" a few years back, a Toyota Versa. Didn't have remote unlock either, what a PITA.

I mean, I can think of the winding windows as useful for cross training, but...how many reps can you do in a 45 minute drive! And how do you switch arms?

First world problems, I know. :)

[AngryScientist]

Coworker wants to buy a new Q3. Vehicle is available, but without keyless entry and start stop due to chip shortage.

Once you've lived with these options, it's tough to go back, like to winding windows. Had a rental car with that "option" a few years back, a Toyota Versa. Didn't have remote unlock either, what a PITA.

I mean, I can think of the winding windows as useful for cross training, but...how many reps can you do in a 45 minute drive! And how do you switch arms?

First world problems, I know. :)

i view start/stop (if that's what i think it is) as an annoyance, not a feature. Every rental car i get i turn it off immediately. i'm skeptical it saves any fuel at all.

[p nut]

…Once you've lived with these options, it's tough to go back, like to winding windows. Had a rental car with that "option" a few years back, a Toyota Versa. Didn't have remote unlock either, what a PITA….

Probably for the same reasons I like rim brakes and steel frames, I actually prefer dumb-key and no start/stop. When I bought my last truck (F150), I specifically wanted the XL so I can have a regular key. It still has the start/stop, and although I’d rather not have it, it doesn’t bother me that much. But it does save fuel for sure.

[CNY rider]

i view start/stop (if that's what i think it is) as an annoyance, not a feature. Every rental car i get i turn it off immediately. i'm skeptical it saves any fuel at all.

We had my FIL's Subaru Forester to use for several months a couple of years ago.
It was the first vehicle I've had with that feature.
I loved everything about the Forester except the start/stop which I hated.
It is an incredible annoyance and in rural driving with the rare stoplight it isn't saving anything.

[yinzerniner]

We had my FIL's Subaru Forester to use for several months a couple of years ago.
It was the first vehicle I've had with that feature.
I loved everything about the Forester except the start/stop which I hated.
It is an incredible annoyance and in rural driving with the rare stoplight it isn't saving anything.

Yeah it totally depends on the route conditions. For city driving (averaging less than 25mph) it's been tested to save roughly 10% of fuel. In urban situations (average more than 50mph) it makes almost no difference. Also it's best in mild climate situations, so you aren't running the heat or AC which requires the engine to run.

This is a good article from 2014 with testing, and the numbers seem to be somewhat close to my own testing for curiosity.
https://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/do-stop-start-systems-really-save-fuel.html

[chrismoustache]

I’ve got a Previa i’ll sell you!

as a former 80's Toyota van enthusiast, I'd love to hear more about your Previa :)

[CNY rider]

Yeah it totally depends on the route conditions. For city driving (averaging less than 25mph) it's been tested to save roughly 10% of fuel. In urban situations (average more than 50mph) it makes almost no difference. Also it's best in mild climate situations, so you aren't running the heat or AC which requires the engine to run.

This is a good article from 2014 with testing, and the numbers seem to be somewhat close to my own testing for curiosity.
https://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/do-stop-start-systems-really-save-fuel.html

10% fuel savings is nothing to sneeze at.
I guess if I lived in an area with stop & go traffic I would have to learn to get used to it.
But damn does it make a bad first impression.

[donevwil]

10% fuel savings is nothing to sneeze at.
I guess if I lived in an area with stop & go traffic I would have to learn to get used to it.
But damn does it make a bad first impression.

Yes it does, but you do get used to it. If you press lightly on the brake pedal (more than enough to stay stopped) start-stop is not activated. Press a little harder it activates. I adjusted to it in a couple weeks.

The problem I'm having is that 90% of my driving is 4 - 6 miles of local stop & go, perfect opportunity to utilize start-stop. Unfortunately, the start-stop battery (separate motorcycle size battery) doesn't have enough opportunity to re-charge so once I get the battery charging indicator start-stop is dead until I take a 200+ mile road trip.

I'm sure my case is an issue of poor design and/or implementation.

[buddybikes]

I had no idea of this start/stop, wondering why people were starting their engines from stop sign. Duh... Then again, we live in hybrid mode which is much smoother and probably does the starter some life...

[72gmc]

I recently rented a new pickup truck that had start/stop. Didn't seem a good fit for a full size truck, pretty herky-jerky at green lights. The truck did seem to do well on fuel consumption, though.

[robt57]

I had no idea of this start/stop, wondering why people were starting their engines from stop sign. Duh... Then again, we live in hybrid mode which is much smoother and probably does the starter some life...

I dunno bout gas only cars with this feature. But I know my PHEV doesn't have a dedicated small starter motor in normal terms.

Some have a big drive EV plant, and a secondary for regen, running all the elec items [a/c, PS, brakes etc] and starting the ICE motor when system deems it is needed. Like when the EV store is used and it turns into a hybrid. On elec motor is quite big, and the secondary smaller. In hybrid mode, it not only stops ICE motor at full stops, but the big EV motor starts the van moving and the ICE engine chimes in later by 5-10+ seconds. Sooner if you mash the pedal switch thingy.

When the ICE engine is running, pressing the 'throttle pedal' won't raise the engine RPM the EV comes in first as above. It seems weird after 50 years of pressing throttles not to hear an engine rev at all when you press the 'throttle' which is not a 'throttle'. It is a rheostat that is in the shape of a throttle pedal. ;) Where a throttle pedal is and should be, yada...

[p nut]

I recently rented a new pickup truck that had start/stop. Didn't seem a good fit for a full size truck, pretty herky-jerky at green lights. The truck did seem to do well on fuel consumption, though.

I don’t mind it much on my F150. Of the S/S systems I’ve driven, Ford’s been my favorite. It’s fairly seamless.

When I hook up a trailer, it automatically disables itself.

[Ralph]

My wife's new car has the stop and start. In urban and city driving, it can save fuel, her car is very thrifty for a 4200 lb vehicle. On the highway, it doesn't kick in....so no problem. I've become a fan. I asked the service writer if he sees problems with older models, and he says "no". It's designed for how it works. Her AC is on 100% of time, so if pressure low, engine doesn't cut off.

[Ttx1]

As a parent, the Honda Odyssey was, maybe, the best vehicle I've ever owned.

No issue with FWD in New England.

I'm generally an AWD proponent - I've driven Audis forever - but the Odyssey surprised me.

One note about the Previa - there was one in my family years ago... In theory, the center-mounted engine would provide good weight distribution, but in reality it was inaccessible - a failed design platform, IMO.

[RobbieTunes]

Got rid of: GMC Canyon with shell, etc. Too hard to reach in, tie the bikes down, and they wouldn't just slide in, etc. Tailgate was in the way, height was an issue, and camper shell was too low. Modifications to make it better: about $6000.

Picked up: Grand Caravan GT with Stow-n-Go seats. Like jumping off the Titanic and landing on the Big Red Boat. Well pleased. We tried the Kia, Honda, and Toyota, but removing seats to go with roll-ready bikes gave the nod to Stow-n-Go. My lady can convert from 7-passenger to 2 passengers and 4 roll-ready bikes in about 15 minutes, with nothing to store.

[BobbyJones]

I do like storing camera equipment in the stow n go wells

So there is that, too.

[RobbieTunes]

wow!

what a crazy and wild time we are living in. a year wait for a mini van. not some low volume production sports car or specialty truck, but a mini van!

What a crappy time to need a vehicle.

Crazy times, indeed.

My 2016 GMC Canyon 4cyl M6.
Sticker: $20,300
I paid (dealer) $18,000 with 36K miles.
Added: $2000 for shell, cruise, bedliner, tow pkg.
Trade-in: $17,400 with 86K miles. The M6 hurt it.

My 2017 Grand Caravan GT:
Sticker: $34,500
I paid (dealer) $23,000 with 64K miles.

Of course, I should have bought the van 3 years ago instead of the truck.

[donevwil]

...Picked up: Grand Caravan GT with Stow-n-Go seats. Like jumping off the Titanic and landing on the Big Red Boat. Well pleased. We tried the Kia, Honda, and Toyota, but removing seats to go with roll-ready bikes gave the nod to Stow-n-Go. My lady can convert from 7-passenger to 2 passengers and 4 roll-ready bikes in about 15 minutes, with nothing to store.

I will never go back, my wife and I go everywhere with 2 bikes aboard. Last 20 years have had me in an '89 Caravan, '01 Grand Caravan and now a '20 Pacifica. Minivans rule!

https://forums.thepaceline.net/picture.php?albumid=216&pictureid=1127

[RobbieTunes]

I will never go back, my wife and I go everywhere with 2 bikes aboard. Last 20 years have had me in an '89 Caravan, '01 Grand Caravan and now a '20 Pacifica. Minivans rule!

https://forums.thepaceline.net/picture.php?albumid=216&pictureid=1127
I'm waiting on my "I'd rather be Cycling" license plate brackets.
Can you PM me the setup for the fork mounts?
I'd love to haul 4 bodies (OK, breathing cyclists) and 4 bikes. (Indoors)
My measurements show I can do it with fork mounts.

[deluz]

I just back from a week in Maui and we rented a 2022 Pacifica.
I have to say it is pretty nice and wouldn't mind having the plug in version.
Although I have never bought an American car having owned mostly Toyotas.
I probably would just get another Sienna due to the reliability. Also the Pacifica felt more boat like.
I can tell you that that backup warning system did not work as I backed out of a parking space and hit a parked car across the lot. Really sucked doing this on vacation, don't even remember the last time I was in an accident must have been decades ago. At least no one was hurt and it only cost me $250 in deductible.

[veloduffer]

i view start/stop (if that's what i think it is) as an annoyance, not a feature. Every rental car i get i turn it off immediately. i'm skeptical it saves any fuel at all.


My Mercedes GLE450’s start-stop was seamless due to the 48-volt hybrid motor. So quiet you couldn’t tell when the ICE or hybrid motor was on. With a hybrid motor, I think those annoyances can be eliminated.


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[p nut]

I will never go back, my wife and I go everywhere with 2 bikes aboard. Last 20 years have had me in an '89 Caravan, '01 Grand Caravan and now a '20 Pacifica. Minivans rule!


That Girvin fork(!!)…….I hope that’s the picture of the 89 Caravan back in the day! :D

[donevwil]

That Girvin fork(!!)…….I hope that’s the picture of the 89 Caravan back in the day! :D

Ha, funny! Certainly no rock gardens for me, but I've been known to embarrass a rider or two on hi-zoot modern bikes on occasion. Bought the bike used back in '96. Came with a Marzocchi Bomber (which I hated) and swapped for the "awesome" Girvin.

[HenryA]

I will never go back, my wife and I go everywhere with 2 bikes aboard. Last 20 years have had me in an '89 Caravan, '01 Grand Caravan and now a '20 Pacifica. Minivans rule!

https://forums.thepaceline.net/picture.php?albumid=216&pictureid=1127

I used a very similar set up in my mini vans. Drove them all over the country. If you’re all about riding bikes including your vacations mini vans are hard to beat for pure practicality.

[RobbieTunes]

I used a very similar set up in my mini vans. If you’re all about riding bikes including your vacations mini vans are hard to beat for pure practicality.
That would be us. The van is really suited.

2021-16 centuries in 11 states. Used the truck. Not great.

2022-CFP® Exam, but local centuries, Triple Bypass, nailed the coffin shut on using the truck (old and soft me.)…
…with Tour de Tucson and Yosemite upcoming, using the van.

2023-Brazen Dropouts and then some new destination rides. Likely another 1-day private posse across Wisconsin to notch another double century. 3-4 of these van things, and we can get 20 there and back, SAG, bikes, the full deal.

[Tandem Rider]

I will never go back, my wife and I go everywhere with 2 bikes aboard. Last 20 years have had me in an '89 Caravan, '01 Grand Caravan and now a '20 Pacifica. Minivans rule!

https://forums.thepaceline.net/picture.php?albumid=216&pictureid=1127

This is similar to our setup, we have put 2 tandems inside this way, RR and TT, along with spare wheels etc. We have also put 4 singles inside doing this.

[Kobe]

In 2003 when we had our 3rd kid my wife switched to a 2003 Town & Country. No problems at all after 99k miles with it so in 2013 we bought another. 80k miles on this one and no real problems.

The last kid will be graduating college next year and my wife says she will be done driving a minivan. She keeps mentioning a BMW and I do all I can to ignore it.

The van has been so great at hauling stuff and carrying bike, with a rack on the back we have taken 7 bikes with it. Last week I carried 2 10 foot 6x6 posts inside it. I hate to see it go so I will probably start driving it.

[RobbieTunes]

. I hate to see it go so I will probably start driving it.A friend gave his 1999 Odyssey to his 16-year old, to avoid buying another car.
The kid is 100% hooked on it, as are his friends.
His mom frets, but I told her "what happens in the van....."

[donevwil]

https://forums.thepaceline.net/picture.php?albumid=216&pictureid=1127

.. and a pic of the mount's previous life in my '01 Grand Caravan. I sure wish I could remove the seats in my Pacifica.

https://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1697905392&d=1439930227