Michelin Pro Race 2 Durability

[znfdl]

All:

I am deciding on a tire for my cross country ride and deciding between Michelin Pro Race 2 and Vredenstein Fortezza.

I used the Micheling Pro Race 2 on my Arizona Tour this spring and had a number of flats and one sidewall gashed over 800 miles. I was wondering what people's experiences have been with the Pro Race 2 with regards to durability.

I have been commuting on the Vredenstein Fortezzas and have had no problems.

What should I do? Oh and Tubbies are not part of the equation.

[sc53]

I have been using the ProRace 2's on two bikes for at least two years now and have never even had a flat much less a problem with the tires themselves. I really like them--esp since I changed to the 25c fatboys.

[Sandy]

What size tires are you using?


Sandy

[znfdl]

700 x 23

[Ray]

I've had pretty good luck with Pro Races or Pro Race 2s or whatever the current model is called in terms of overall wear. But they do seem to cut pretty easily. For a cross country trip, I'd probably go with what Michelin used to call the 'carbon' - not sure if its still sold under the same name. I've had a set on various bikes over the past five years and I can't seem to kill 'em. They're not quite as light as the Pro Races, but they feel pretty light and responsive. They handle very well and they're better in the wet than the higher end tires because they're made of some non-space age material that's pretty close to rubber. I'd also ride 25s, but thats just me.

-Ray

[regularguy412]

I tried my first set of Fortezza SE 23's last summer-- mounted up on my training wheels (Open Pro). I now have over 3,000 miles on that set of tires and the front STILL has some of the fine file tread left on it! The back has only one small cut (that didn't get bigger). I recently switched out the rear to my rain bike/indoor trainer bike and put a new SE on my Open Pro rear. Also, I've had NO flats during on them. They're listed as 23's but on the OP's they measure out closer to 24's. They have a cush ride, even at 120 psi and they have very low rolling resistance.

My riding buddy uses the Pro2Races in 23. I haven't ridden his wheels, but they seem to have good durability, as he rode one set all last summer mounted up on Cosmic Elite rims.

For the difference in the price between the two tire types, I'd go with the Fortezzas (approx $26 for Fortezza vs. approx $48 Pro2's).

Mike in AR

[Birddog]

ZNFNDL,
I have both models mounted up on bikes that I ride about equally. I really can't say I have a favorite and they both seem to have about the same resistance to cuts, gashes etc (none in my case). I think it's a crap shoot, but since you are having better luck on the Vreds, then I'd probably go that way. If you didn't and you had some bad luck with the Michelins, then you'd probably be kicking yourself in the arse.

As a side note, I rode 21 miles of the toughest part of your day 10 route (Ada to Mena) over the weekend, you're gonna love/hate it! There are three places where you can easily go over 50 on the descents, of course you will pay for it on the climbs. It was about 80* and humid, we went through a lot of fluids.

Birddog

[Todd]

I used Pro Race 2s 700 x 23 for all of last season and I'm still on the same pair, rotated once. That's about 2000 miles on fairly rough roads in central NY state. In previous seasons, I've used various models of Conti, Vittoria, and Pariba, including Open Corsa and GP3000. The Michelins have held up the best - no flats, long wearing. They'd be my choice.

Todd

[abqhudson]

I have had terrible luck with Pro Race 2. Cuts/flats - I can't use them.

Jim

[alancw3]

first set of conti gp4000's. rear lasted 2200 miles here in hot south florida. front shows very little wear. i know others on the forum have had problems with sidewall failure with conti's. i have to say a great tire that i would choose for a cross country ride!

[zap]

znfdl-There is a new Conti GP4000. They (conti) say it's comparable to DoBoy Pro Race 2 in terms of rolling resistance, more grip than the original 4000 and lasts a bit longer too.

We're still using the original GP4000 23 (pumped to 130psi) on our tandem. Its been super reliable for well over 1,500 miles. Our new super duper uber light semi aero tandem wheelset is on its way and this one will be shod with Conti's hot new chili shoes.

[onekgguy]

They're probably one of the more durable tires I've ridden. Typically, I'm happy to get anything more than 2000 miles out of a rear tire. I just replaced my rear wth over 3500 miles on it a couple weeks ago because of a small gash but after that many miles I can't complain. I know that others here have spoken of them cutting too easily but I would have to disagree. I rode them all last year (9000+ m) with very few flats and no gashes...very durable. I'm not too heavy at just under 160lbs if that matters.

Check out this thread (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=28769) for a great deal on them.

Kevin g

[TimD]

I weigh about 190. A size 23mm Pro 2 Race lasts about 2000 miles on the rear.

They are generally available for $33 - $36 if you look carefully <insert "Support your LBS" follow-ups here>.

[Sandy]

You know a whole lot more than I do about almost anything bike related. That would certainly apply here in spades relative to a cross country bicycle trip. With that premise, I would like to ask a question and make another tire suggestion, assuming that is ok.

Why would you choose a 700x23 over 700x25? What possible benefit to you on your trip? Secondly, if I may be so bold, I would like to recommend the Continental GP 4000. I have about 1700-1800 miles on my first pair (most all last year) and I have found them to be remarkably durable thus far. No flats thus far and you must look very hard to even notice cuts of any kind. They appear to be in remarkably excellent condition. Great ride quality and handling. I use 700x25 at 95 f and 105 rear. You might want to contact Zap about 700x23 in this particular brand if you might have any interest.


Sandy

[rpm]

Ditto on the Conti 4000's. I was always a confirmed Michelin man and hated Conti's until I tried the new ones. Conti hit a home run with these. I have used the 25's for over a year and a half, wearing out one rear one, and my flat total is zero, zip, nada. They roll as well as the ProRaces, corner better in the wet, and last much longer. I believe the secret is the vectran belt. It gives the flat protection of kevlar but without the stiffness and weight. Schwalbe is now also selling vectran tires, so they may have similar advantages.

I highly recommend the 25's in the 4000's. They're a little smaller and less cushy than the Michelin 25's, but definitely more cushy than ProRace 23's and weigh virtually the same. They should fit any frame, so I see no reason to use the 23's.

[Sandy]

If I remember correctly (and I think that I do) the GP 4000 in size 700x23 weighs 205 grams and the 700x25 weighs 215 grams. I did not like the ride quality of the Michelin Pro2 Race, but I think that I am in the minority there (I was also at the time, taking a medication that was causing me dizziness). I prefer the ride qulaity of the GP 4000.

I agree with you. Use the 700x25. What possible advantage of the 700x23? A slight aero one?


Sandy

[palincss]

I agree with you. Use the 700x25. What possible advantage of the 700x23? A slight aero one?


They'd be slower and ride harder, but maybe you might "feel faster"?

[zap]

They'd be slower and ride harder, but maybe you might "feel faster"?

Bigger tires (25c) have proven to roll faster up to a certain speed, but above say 15 mph, depending on the rim, 23 or thinner will be faster. Plus the aero gains are not linear. So, I guess much depends on what you ride, if you want a bouncy ride or not, where you ride, how fast you typically go and ultimately, if you care to get that little bit of performance gain.

Remember, znfdl is going to be chasing a tandem across the country.

[flydhest]

Remember, znfdl is going to be chasing a tandem across the country.

which means that the aero benefits are largely negated . . .

[znfdl]

Remember, znfdl is going to be chasing a tandem across the country.

I think that the correct term for me would be parasite.

I am leaning towards Vredensteins and maybe in 700x25.

Thanks for the feedback.

[zap]

which means that the aero benefits are largely negated . . .

If znfdl were drafting, that would be correct. :D

However, coming down mtns, znfdl will be chasing to get back on and therefore, begging for every advantage :D

[flydhest]

Indeed. Chasing tandems down moutains is only fun for other tandems.

[93legendti]

If I remember correctly (and I think that I do) the GP 4000 in size 700x23 weighs 205 grams and the 700x25 weighs 215 grams. I did not like the ride quality of the Michelin Pro2 Race, but I think that I am in the minority there (I was also at the time, taking a medication that was causing me dizziness). I prefer the ride qulaity of the GP 4000.

I agree with you. Use the 700x25. What possible advantage of the 700x23? A slight aero one?


Sandy
I am in that minority as well. At the time (as well as the present), I was suffering from a lack of sleep due to my 2 young children. I prefer the GP4000 and the Veloflex Pave.

[Sandy]

Indeed. Chasing tandems down moutains is only fun for other tandems.

Chasing that tandem ain't fun, period. You might chase it, but you will never catch it. :rolleyes:


Sandy

[vaxn8r]

Chasing that tandem ain't fun, period. You might chase it, but you will never catch it. :rolleyes:


Sandy
Yes they will, on the first climb.

[znfdl]

Queen promised that if I get dropped that she will unclip from her pedals ;)

[djg]

Remember, znfdl is going to be chasing a tandem across the country.

I think that's right. Even tt has a slipstream wider than 23 mm.

[flydhest]

Yes they will, on the first climb.


. . . errr, have you ever ridden with TooTall and the Queen on the tandem? In general tandems are slower than their peers on singles going uphill, but TooTall and the Queen have few peers.

[palincss]

I think that the correct term for me would be parasite.


When I rode tandem, we called people like that Klingons. If they knew what they were doing, it was perfectly OK -- but if they were inattentive or didn't understand the dynamics of riding tandem it was a different story.

[Sandy]

Yes they will, on the first climb.

I don't think so:

I always wondered why tandems were normally slower up hills than singles, as the physics of it would say tandems should be faster. I started a thread on the forum a while back and asked why tandems were slower up hills than singles, and concluded from the responses, that the reason is that the stoker is often much weaker than the captain. Given an equally strong captain and stoker, a tandem team will drop a single of same strength up hills, down hills, on flats, off cliffs, or wherever. zfndl has many cycling attributes- He is very strong, has great endurance, and has experience in ridng long distances. However, he will be chasing the tandem team of Too Tall and the Queen (his wife). Too Tall is exceptionally strong as captain AND his stoker is also strong. In addition the Too Tall/Queen tandem duo work together exceptionally well as a tandem team, meaning they are very efficient in pedal stroke and other phases of tandem cycling. They are very experienced, have done very long tandem frids/races together and are experts on nutrition. Hence, as good as zfndl is, I think that he will be doing a lot of chasing.

The only tandem team that I know about thatTeam Too Tall could not keep up with is Team Sandy/Kevan but it is best not to touch that subject for now.... :)


Sandy

[CNY rider]

When I rode tandem, we called people like that Klingons. If they knew what they were doing, it was perfectly OK -- but if they were inattentive or didn't understand the dynamics of riding tandem it was a different story.

Life is such that I live in the sticks and do 99% of my riding alone.

Other than riding with flydhest and his lovely partner on a tandem at dbrk's briefly last summer , I've never had the opportunity to be out riding with folks on a tandem.

What should I be watching out for if I end up riding around /with them?

[Sandy]

I should add that another strong tandem team is that of captain Too Tall and stoker znfdl. The problem with that team in conjunction with znfdl riding a single simultaneously is quite obvious. znfdl is good, but not that good.... :rolleyes: :)


Team Terrific

[Ken Robb]

My Michelins got lots of flats. Conti UltraGatorskins got none. Fortezzas very few. Rivendell Ruffy Tuffys had one slashed sidewall when I brushed it along a sharp piece of imovable steel where any tire would have cut. GP 3000 got 2 flats in 2000 miles. I have too few miles on a pair of GP 4000 for any meaningful comments.

I would be running 25-30mm tires depending on available clearance.
BTW, I also had only one flat on Pasela 700x32 (measured 28mm) folders w/o Kevlar belt and they were light and rode fine.

I hate flats, especially on long rides where I'm sucking wind anyway.
I will never ride Armadillos from Specialized again. They may be flat-proof but they ride like bricks.

[vaxn8r]

. . . errr, have you ever ridden with TooTall and the Queen on the tandem? In general tandems are slower than their peers on singles going uphill, but TooTall and the Queen have few peers.
err...sarcasm noted

So are you implying TT can't keep up with TT and the Queen? Hypothetically of course.

[djg]

znfndl--I haven't been riding clinchers much the past couple of seasons, but I always kind of liked those vredesteins. If you want to see what a michelin carbon feels like, I have a used one in decent shape hanging up downstairs--you're welcome to try it out for a couple of weeks if you want (and keep it if you like it).

[Lifelover]

Been running 25 PR2s for a few years on different bikes and have had two flats. One a pinch flat and the other Saturday as I pulled back into the parking lot after completing a century :banana:

[Matt Barkley]

What is your sign?

I am a Scorpio and have horrible luck with any "lightweight" Michelin (ProRace2.) Flats. FLats Flats for me.... I do like the Krylions, though.

It is IMHO that you should consult with an Astrologer to align yourself with the correct tire manufacturer and model. :beer:

[chakatrain]

Late the to thread...seems to be a habit since I'm not checking the boards until I get home.

I went to buy a pair of 700x23 Pro Race 2 tires recently. The LBS suggested a pair of Michelin Krylion Carbon 700x23 instead, since I'm not a racer (just enthusiastic). After a relatively short time, maybe 700 miles, I haven't had a single problem. There's a slight weight penalty, but it doesn't really bother me.

[Ray]

I do like the Krylions, though.

The LBS suggested a pair of Michelin Krylion Carbon 700x23 instead, since I'm not a racer (just enthusiastic).

From what I can tell, the Krylon is the carbon with a slightly new name. They're actually called Krylon Carbons. Just in case you're even remotely thinking of these.

-Ray

[poop]

I have been running Michelins Pro 2 Races (700 x 23) exclusively just about 4 years--and have completed 3 Ironman triathlons, and several road races, along with daily training on two different types of bikes. The tires seem to last about 2000 miles before the tread wears out. My wife also uses them on her Fierte, and has had no issues. The roads are pretty poor where we ride (loose gravel, pot holes) here in South Central Wisconsin. Make sure you inflate them prior to every ride (regardless of what type of tire you run).

Have a great ride, stay safe!

[PeterW]

I really really like Michelin tires. Very nice balance between durability and feel. Michelin 25 is a fantastic width.

I have 1500 miles so far this year on a pair of PR2 25s, 400 of which were off-road. No flats, no cuts.

I've ridden the Carbon 25s (now Krylion Carbons) for years. NEVER a flat.

I've stuck with Veloflex tubs and Michelin clinchers and am very happy.

[Too Tall]

Matt always has a good answer :) It really does seem to be some pixie dust plus alignment of moon and stars what determins your tyre life. Suks don't it?

We are running the ProRace2 25s on our tandem. They seem faster and morecomfortable than any 25 we have used however FOR WHATEVER REASON we too are getting an inordinate number of flats...it's almost wierd. I'm switching back to Veredestin's and spillling mare's milk all over the dang joint...pray for me :rolleyes:

Good question..."can I keep up with Me+Queen on tandem if I'm riding a single?" Yup if I am drafting otherwise fugget aboutit. I know what sort of 40k TT time I am capable of and the tandem beats my sorry arse everytime. End of story. Uphill, I win.

ZNFNDL BTW is the second best stoker EVER :) He is very powerful and sneaky as heck...always thinking of evil plots to deep six single riders...bwaaa hahahaha. Bad Znfndl bad!!!!!

[palincss]

Life is such that I live in the sticks and do 99% of my riding alone.

Other than riding with flydhest and his lovely partner on a tandem at dbrk's briefly last summer , I've never had the opportunity to be out riding with folks on a tandem.

What should I be watching out for if I end up riding around /with them?

Most important thing is, tandems can stop a lot faster than you would give them credit for. It's impossible to endo on a tandem.

Also, since tandems go fast and weigh a lot, there's an awful lot of momentum to deal with, and certainly when I was captaining a tandem if I saw trouble ahead I'd do my best to burn off as much of that momentum as soon as possible. So an inattentive drafter could find themselves either suddenly out of room (and down they do go); or they could try to match the tandem's braking and either pitch over or skid out.

Tandems can safely go a lot faster downhill than a single (and often do). I've been up to 65 mph, and (other than the wind) it was no big deal with respect to stability -- certainly not the case on a single. Singles that stay on a tandem's wheel on a downhill can find themselves going a whole lot faster than they ever bargained for.

The other side of that coin is that most tandems are slower uphill than singles. Hanging onto a tandem's wheel on downhill runs, then leaping ahead of them on climbs, tends to really annoy tandemers.

[Ozz]

...What should I be watching out for if I end up riding around /with them?
I was taken out by a tandem on STP about 10 years ago....heading in to Portland at about 25 mph, riding in street, calling out "on your left" as my buddy and I passed other riders...the captain of the tandem we were passing looked over his shoulder at us, and in the process turned perpindicular to us....T-Bone crunch. Luckily, no one was seriously hurt. Some bruises and scraped bar tape was the worst of it.

I believe he said they bought the tandem just a couple weeks prior to the ride. :crap:

Back on topic, for a real treat try the ProRace2 Limited Editions. I've been riding a pair I bought from a fellow forumite for about a month. Sweet.....I just bought two more pairs to ensure my supply. They only come in 23's however. No report yet on durability. I only have about 250 miles on them.

[vaxn8r]

Good question..."can I keep up with Me+Queen on tandem if I'm riding a single?" Yup if I am drafting otherwise fugget aboutit. I know what sort of 40k TT time I am capable of and the tandem beats my sorry arse everytime. End of story. Uphill, I win.


Yeah, that's what I thought. I think I get you anyway. Same here.

[vaxn8r]

Michelins in a 23 or 25, depends on your mood or the bike but they both rock. I rarely get flats on my singles or tandems. I've used the Krylons ? and they wear well and roll well but don't feel as supple; better winter crud tire.

Other clinchers I don't like as well. Conti 3000's (not even close), Veredstein ?? (better than Conti for sure), Specialized whatever their top tire of the day is,(they're OK, roll ok, more flats in my experience and harsher ride quality). Haven't tried Conti 4000's because their 3000's suck so bad (cuts, fast wear and don't corner nearly as well as Michi's, plus I gave them enough money over the years in prior variations of that tire.

[Orin]

I was taken out by a tandem on STP about 10 years ago....heading in to Portland at about 25 mph, riding in street, calling out "on your left" as my buddy and I passed other riders...the captain of the tandem we were passing looked over his shoulder at us, and in the process turned perpindicular to us....T-Bone crunch. Luckily, no one was seriously hurt. Some bruises and scraped bar tape was the worst of it.


Yeah, I gave up calling "on your left" on STP. Results were too unpredictable. Similarly on the local trails and little kids - slow down and pass wide.

Orin.

[davids]

I've found both the Fortezzas and ProRace 2s to be slow-wearing tires. I think the ProRace 2s are a bit more supple, and the Fortezzas wear a little bit better. Given my (relatively) low weight and (realtively) low mileage, I prefer the ProRace 2s.

They're both good choices, atmo.

[Bill D]

I've gone back and forth between Vreds and Michelins the last couple years. W/r/t the Vreds, you have to distinguish between the Fortezzas and the Fortezza Tricomps. IMO, the regular Fortezzas (a dual comp tire, as I understand it) ride just a bit harsher but last a lot longer and cut a lot less than the Tricomps. The Tricomps are more supple and ride great, but because of that softer compound, I sometimes have to retire them early because of cuts.

I think the Michelin PR2 is sorta in between the two Vreds: maybe not quite as supple as the Tricomp (though I'm really splitting hairs there) but a little more supple than the Fortezza, and don't seem to cut quite as easily as the Tricomps on the sharp little rocks and thorns and glass we get on the roads in Phx. Net result: I'm on PR2's right now and like them a lot. (Plus, I like the dark blue ones.) But I might try something new (to me) for my next pair, just for comparison's sake, like the Veloflex Pave or Vittoria Open Corsa.

All of my experience has been with 700x23's, though I'm considering trying some 25's after so many forumites rave about them.

[davids]

Bill D,

My comments apply to the Fortezza Tricomps. I find the Pro Race 2s more supple. But like I said, they're both very nice tires!

As far as the Veloflex Paves... They've been my 'fast bike' tire of choice for a few years now. Lighter and more supple than either the Vreds or the Michelins. The downside is that they wear faster. I find that I get little cuts in the tread all the time, and that they have no effect on the life of the tire - The first time this happened, I replaced the tire right away. The second time, I decided to live with it, and monitor the situation. The tires lasted about 2k miles, cuts and all!

In fact, I've had damage on the sidewall of the Pave on the front wheel of my Nove for over 1,000 miles now. I check the boo-boo every week or so, and it's not getting any worse.

In a few weeks, the Paves will be replaced with the Pro Race Service Courses - I'm really looking forward to trying them out! But the new Love #3 will get a set of Paves...

[zap]

snipped


Other clinchers I don't like as well. Conti 3000's (not even close), Veredstein ?? (better than Conti for sure), Specialized whatever their top tire of the day is,(they're OK, roll ok, more flats in my experience and harsher ride quality). Haven't tried Conti 4000's because their 3000's suck so bad (cuts, fast wear and don't corner nearly as well as Michi's, plus I gave them enough money over the years in prior variations of that tire.

The Conti 3000 were the worst tire ever. Well, those Veloflex clinchers sucked worse because even at 120psi, they were soft & bouncy and within 20 miles one went pfffff. Anyhow, it got so bad that Zip wouldn't ride the tandem unless I tossed the 3000. Conti almost lost me as a customer.

The original conti GP were great tires (well the side walls were a bit weak) so I decided to give conti one more chance with the 4000. They are so much better in every way. In the rain last Saturday, we hammered along in a paceline and around corners and we didn't even think about the tires, which by the way were pumped to 130psi. The 3000 in the rain were so slippy when cornering, even at 90psi, it felt like we would have been faster if we got off the tandem and walked.

[glc]

id say vredestein 25s. they've lasted a tough bout of nyc street riding on a fixed wheel, along side many centuries and some century +s with no flats and comfort as far as my tush is concerned. dirt roads, shcity roads, beach roads, wood planks, block long silly skid stops still going cept now they've been put aside for the grand bois and boy howdy, tis like riding on green grass all the time.

thats my vote.

anyways, josh always seems to know what's right, right?

[Climb01742]

i must be one of the few folks who couldn't tell/feel any benefit from fatter tires. 23s are just swell for me. 25 and 28 just don't feel any different or better. just sayin'.

[fiamme red]

i must be one of the few folks who couldn't tell/feel any benefit from fatter tires. 23s are just swell for me. 25 and 28 just don't feel any different or better. just sayin'.The benefit of wider tires is that you can run them at lower pressures without pinch-flatting, so the ride is smoother and more comfortable. If you're running the 28's at the same psi as the 23's, you're not taking advantage of them.

There's a big difference in riding over cobblestones at 50 psi and 110 psi. On perfectly smooth roads, there isn't a great advantage to wider tires.

[CNY rider]

Most important thing is, tandems can stop a lot faster than you would give them credit for. It's impossible to endo on a tandem.

Also, since tandems go fast and weigh a lot, there's an awful lot of momentum to deal with, and certainly when I was captaining a tandem if I saw trouble ahead I'd do my best to burn off as much of that momentum as soon as possible. So an inattentive drafter could find themselves either suddenly out of room (and down they do go); or they could try to match the tandem's braking and either pitch over or skid out.

Tandems can safely go a lot faster downhill than a single (and often do). I've been up to 65 mph, and (other than the wind) it was no big deal with respect to stability -- certainly not the case on a single. Singles that stay on a tandem's wheel on a downhill can find themselves going a whole lot faster than they ever bargained for.

The other side of that coin is that most tandems are slower uphill than singles. Hanging onto a tandem's wheel on downhill runs, then leaping ahead of them on climbs, tends to really annoy tandemers.

Thanks, I'll be sure to mind my manners. :beer:

[Climb01742]

The benefit of wider tires is that you can run them at lower pressures without pinch-flatting, so the ride is smoother and more comfortable. If you're running the 28's at the same psi as the 23's, you're not taking advantage of them.

There's a big difference in riding over cobblestones at 50 psi and 110 psi. On perfectly smooth roads, there isn't a great advantage to wider tires.

i didn't know about the difference in psi. i ran 'em all at about 100psi. at the lower psi, do they feel squishy?

[93legendti]

i must be one of the few folks who couldn't tell/feel any benefit from fatter tires. 23s are just swell for me. 25 and 28 just don't feel any different or better. just sayin'.

I agree, on dirt roads, yes, no rear tire slippage with 25c tires--other than that, give me Veloflex Pave 22c's inflated to 95psi on any wheel and I am happy.

[fiamme red]

i didn't know about the difference in psi. i ran 'em all at about 100psi. at the lower psi, do they feel squishy?Experiment with the wider tires; run them at lower psi's and see if you like the results. Recommended pressure depends on weight of the rider and the load, of course.

My beater has 700x32 Armadillos, which I run at about 50 psi front, 55 rear. My light-touring bike (with a Carradice saddle bag, so much of the weight is on the rear) has 700x28 tires, which I run at 80 psi front, 90 rear (may be slightly overinflated, but I'm afraid of pinch flats). I weigh 165 lbs.

Sheldon Brown (http://sheldonbrown.com/tires.html#width) says:

"A common debate among cyclists centers on the issue of whether a wider tire has more or less rolling resistance at the same pressure. The constant pressure is proposed because it appears more scientific to eliminate this as a variable, but this is not realistic in practice. The short answer to this question is that, yes, a wider tire of similar construction will have lower rolling resistance than a narrower one at the same pressure. This fact is, however, of no practical value. If you are comparing two tires of similar construction, with the same load, and the same pressure, either the wider tire is overinflated, or the narrower tire is underinflated!

"A tire is supposed to deflect a bit under load. This deflection the whole purpose of pneumatic tires. When you sit on your bike, your tires should visibly bulge out at least a bit under your weight. If they don't, they're overinflated."

[Ahneida Ride]

snipped



The Conti 3000 were the worst tire ever. Well, those Veloflex clinchers sucked worse because even at 120psi, they were soft & bouncy and within 20 miles one went pfffff. Anyhow, it got so bad that Zip wouldn't ride the tandem unless I tossed the 3000. Conti almost lost me as a customer.

The original conti GP were great tires (well the side walls were a bit weak) so I decided to give conti one more chance with the 4000. They are so much better in every way. In the rain last Saturday, we hammered along in a paceline and around corners and we didn't even think about the tires, which by the way were pumped to 130psi. The 3000 in the rain were so slippy when cornering, even at 90psi, it felt like we would have been faster if we got off the tandem and walked.


Conti's have side wall issues. Check them Sidewalls if you use Conti's.

[zap]

Conti's have side wall issues. Check them Sidewalls if you use Conti's.

As I noted in my previous post, I know.

Zip and I crashed some years ago in front of TT on a slight downhill when the front original gp side wall blew. My fault for not inspecting 5+ year old tire on our rarely used go fast zipp wheel.

As crappy as the conti 3000 tires were, the sidewall durabilty was good. The sidewalls on the gp4000 and one supersonic tire are holding up quite well too.

[TimB]

I'm annoyed. Got a new pair of the Ultra Gatorskins 25s for commuting, and yesterday got a flat. At first looked like the standard Conti sidewall cut, but upon closer inspection it really appears that the sidewall _separated_ between two of the cords. I can accept a side-wall cut with some shoulder shrugging, but having the sidewall come apart after maybe 500 miles is just NOT okay.

I've used Conti tires a long time, and generally with good results. Feeling much less confident in that now...

[davids]

Bill D,

My comments apply to the Fortezza Tricomps. I find the Pro Race 2s more supple. But like I said, they're both very nice tires!

As far as the Veloflex Paves... They've been my 'fast bike' tire of choice for a few years now. Lighter and more supple than either the Vreds or the Michelins. The downside is that they wear faster. I find that I get little cuts in the tread all the time, and that they have no effect on the life of the tire - The first time this happened, I replaced the tire right away. The second time, I decided to live with it, and monitor the situation. The tires lasted about 2k miles, cuts and all!

In fact, I've had damage on the sidewall of the Pave on the front wheel of my Nove for over 1,000 miles now. I check the boo-boo every week or so, and it's not getting any worse.

In a few weeks, the Paves will be replaced with the Pro Race Service Courses - I'm really looking forward to trying them out! But the new Love #3 will get a set of Paves...
To reply to myself...

I replaced the Veloflex Paves with the Michelin Pro Race Service Courses on the Nove this weekend. They're both excellent tires, but I'd give the Michelins the edge for silky compliance.

Not a big diff in terms of ride, but the Nove's gone from understated to Euro-racer vivid - They'll see you coming with these Service Courses!

http://www.sigmasport.co.uk/store/tyres/pics/mich_prorace_sdc.jpg

[regularguy412]

I'm annoyed. Got a new pair of the Ultra Gatorskins 25s for commuting, and yesterday got a flat. At first looked like the standard Conti sidewall cut, but upon closer inspection it really appears that the sidewall _separated_ between two of the cords. I can accept a side-wall cut with some shoulder shrugging, but having the sidewall come apart after maybe 500 miles is just NOT okay.

I've used Conti tires a long time, and generally with good results. Feeling much less confident in that now...

I've had the opportunity to help friends boot Contis with this similar issue. The cut isn't usually horizontal (along the circumference of the sidewall concentric with the rim) nor is it perpendicular (directly across the sidewall , radially toward the hub). It's usually diagonal, like it's along the same plane as the sidewall fabric. I can say, however, that I've never experienced Conti tubulars with this problem -- at least not the Comp GP 19s, the LA's nor the Sprinters.

My latest two fave training tires are ( albeit they are clinchers) Vredestein Fortezza SE's and Panaracer Stradius Pro's. Over 3,500 miles on the SE's. Only one tread cut ( small) and no sidewall cuts. No flats. I only have about 1,200 miles on the Stradius Pro's, but no cuts of any kind, anywhere. The Stradius Pro's are light. The SE's are a bit heavier, but they appear to be bombproof.


Mike in AR