Basso admits to Puerto involvement

[LegendRider]

Check out Velonews for the brief newsflash.

Is anyone surprised?

[Russell]

from Pezcycling

Speaking Of Ivan Basso
Reports from Italy have it that troubled Grand Tour superstar, Ivan Basso, is cooperating very nicely with Italian authorities on his recently re-opened Operacion Puerto case.

Apparently, there could be a lot more to Basso's cooperation than just plain good will and desire to be a good person. Basso's help, aid, and cooperation could lead to a very lenient doping penalty if proceedings do in fact go that far.

Radsport-Aktiv reports that if things worked out well for Basso in this theoretical set-up, he could return to bike racing within the next YEAR! His cooperation with the investigating authorities could see the traditional sentence of two years whittled down to one year, of which his non-racing time from the Tour de France up till this Spring would be recognized as part of his suspension.

Cooperation could also be helpful to Basso in relation to the criminal charges that would likely be handed down. The criminal procedures would likely have nil for an effect on Basso, as a typical case takes upwards of five years to complete, and the penalty would be a mere 4 months to two years of probation.

As per the norm, this is where the Amore e Vita squad steps in and says, we'll take you Ivan! Just cooperate, serve your time, and we'll welcome you with open arms. And thankfully for the following of tradition, the Amore e Vita squad did just that on Sunday.

[David Kirk]

Oh darn! And I believed in him. Now who will I believe in??


Dave

[CNY rider]

Oh darn! And I believed in him. Now who will I believe in??


Dave

Choose between Santa and the Easter bunny.

[Climb01742]

a bit more...

http://www.eurosport.com/cycling/pro-tour/2006-2007/sport_sto1173531.shtml

[Jason E]

I'm not saying that everyone else accused in VARIOUS affairs is guilty, but it is nice that he's standing up and taking responsibility for what he's done. Yeah, he went this far, but we've seen people deny to death.

At least Basso is saying, "yeah, you caught me."

[cinelli]

Go with Santa...the bunny is energized.

[Louis]

Oh darn! And I believed in him. Now who will I believe in??


Tugboat ?

[ada@prorider.or]

http://www.gazzetta.it/Ciclismo/Primo_Piano/2007/05_Maggio/07/smsbasso.shtml

[cinelli]

I'll confess if you don't prosecute....is that how this deal works?

[gt6267a]

Choose between Santa and the Easter bunny.

those two are so juiced up, it's just a different cocktail. i've always taken santa for a vodka and cranberry juice kind of guy. maybe a cosmo, but def something red.

[David Kirk]

Tugboat ?

That made me laugh so hard milk came out my nose..........and I don't drink milk.

Dave

[J.Greene]

Lance isn't going to like this.

:fight:

JG

[gt6267a]

so ... who one the giro last year? the next best doper?

Final General classification

1 Ivan Basso (Ita) Team CSC 91.33.36 (38.54 km/h)
2 José E. Gutierrez Cataluna (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems 9.18
3 Gilberto Simoni (Ita) Saunier Duval-Prodir 11.59
4 Damiano Cunego (Ita) Lampre-Fondital 18.16
5 Paolo Savoldelli (Ita) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 19.22

[Len J]

that challenged Lance in his 7 Tour wins that hasn't been implicated/caught doping? Man, Lance undoped must be a mutant! I'm seriously thinking he might be an alien to have won all those tours undoped and to be so strong that everyone else had to dope to keep up with him! (Where is that tongue in cheek emoticon?)

Len

BTW..they are still amazing athletes even doped.

[soulspinner]

I believe .... Ill go ride my bike.

[Frog Hair]

[QUOTE=Len J]that challenged Lance in his 7 Tour wins that hasn't been implicated/caught doping? Man, Lance undoped must be a mutant! I'm seriously thinking he might be an alien to have won all those tours undoped and to be so strong that everyone else had to dope to keep up with him! (Where is that tongue in cheek emoticon?)


No kidding. One man so fast that an entire economy is built around cheating to try and catch him. Amazing.

Now that all of this is in motion, I'm considering the Tour myself. Certainly there are going to be plenty of spots available. Anyone care to join me? I'm fat, old and slow. But I am dope-free, and so long as I can even finish the thing, it may worth at least one of those jerseys on my wall... :beer:

[Sandy]

I have an idea. Serotta should enter a team in this year's Tour. I, of course, would be team leader (my idea, remember). You would be one of my domestiques. Anway.... we would come in last place....but that would be temporary as all the other teams teams would ultimately be disqualified as soon as drug test results appeared. Team Serotta would be crowned winner of the Tour. I would become rich, famous, and would be sought by all the pretty ladies of the cycling world...Life is good.... :) :)


Team Leader

Team Serotta

[David Kirk]

I have an idea. Serotta should enter a team in this year's Tour. I, of course, would be team leader (my idea, remember). You would be one of my domestiques. Anway.... we would come in last place....but that would be temporary as all the other teams teams would ultimately be disqualified as soon as drug test results appeared. Team Serotta would be crowned winner of the Tour. I would become rich, famous, and would be sought by all the pretty ladies of the cycling world...Life is good.... :) :)


Team Leader

Team Serotta

Id' be happy to carry your water and bring up donuts from the team car as needed. If the car isn't too far back there might even be donuts left by the time I get back into the group!

Dave

[Sandy]

Id' be happy to carry your water and bring up donuts from the team car as needed. If the car isn't too far back there might even be donuts left by the time I get back into the group!

Dave

Thanks for your offer. You just made the team!! However, it will be cinnamon raisin bagels for all Team Serotta members. There will be donuts left by the time you get back to the group. Remember, I am Team Serotta team leader, so the team won't be moving forward at a very fast pace. Think single digits..


Team Leader

Team Serotta

[1centaur]

A lot of people thought it inconceivable that Basso doped without Riis's knowledge. Now Basso's rolling and apparently no longer digs Riis. The implications roll in a lot of directions.

As for the Lance comments, play 6 Degrees of Kevin Bacon with any Grand Tour GC podium inhabitants in the last 5 years and your fondest recent memories can get pretty dismal. Apparently anyone really good in the high mountains day after day is a question mark (+1 for Vino, tainted by proximity to Saiz, but who always had a bad day in the mountains of the Tour).

[Len J]

Id' be happy to carry your water and bring up donuts from the team car as needed. If the car isn't too far back there might even be donuts left by the time I get back into the group!

Dave

What Dave said....except I want the jelly D-nut.

Len

[J.Greene]

A lot of people thought it inconceivable that Basso doped without Riis's knowledge. Now Basso's rolling and apparently no longer digs Riis. The implications roll in a lot of directions.

As for the Lance comments, play 6 Degrees of Kevin Bacon with any Grand Tour GC podium inhabitants in the last 5 years and your fondest recent memories can get pretty dismal. Apparently anyone really good in the high mountains day after day is a question mark (+1 for Vino, tainted by proximity to Saiz, but who always had a bad day in the mountains of the Tour).

All these guys are pros. They ALL know the score whether they dope or not.
I'm all for making the sport as clean as possible, but I wonder will the fans be better off?

JG

[malcolm]

First off doped or not these guys are the greatest endurance athletes on the planet and epo or whatever won't turn a sows ear into a silk purse, it will however increase their edge over each other.
I think it would be more enjoyable to watch with a clean peleton, probably more competitive, if everyone is a bit slower I don't think you would notice.
It would be nice if they would just stop all this crap give everything in the past a pass and start today with a uniform policy that was transparent and allowed a rider to send his own specimen collected at the same time in the same manner to an approved lab with a tech of his choice witnessing the operation. Pollyanna

[Climb01742]

if basso comes clean, names names and cooperates fully, i'd have no problem with a shorter sentence. let it be a carrot for cooperation. many big sticks have been tried to get riders to come clean with little to show. why not try a carrot or two? make the same offer to jan or anyone named in puerto.

[Elefantino]

"The 29-year-old Italian will not be implicating other riders in the investigation," [his lawyer] said.

OK, so he's no rat.

He probably doesn't need to be. Fuentes kept such creative but elaborate records.

But how, exactly, does he get time off for good behavior if he's not naming names? Dontcha think that the authorities already know how the doping works?

Sheesh.

[BigDaddySmooth]

This way, there would be no question with any of the riders. It seems to work well for Pro bodybuilding and pro wrestling. The assumption should be that everyone dopes and if you want to win, you better dope up. Does it really matter anyway? These guys are freak shows to begin with...V02 max twice that of the normal human. Paid to ride bikes 8 hours a day. No real thought required, just listen to the voice in your ear piece. In the end, it is not like these guys are using crack, dealing/robbing/stealing to get their next fix and as far as I can tell, there is not a big market for EPO. To them, a little EPO to prime the pump, so to speak. :banana:

[TAW]

If anyone from "team Serotta" wins a mountain stage, please remember to zip up your jersey before crossing the line.

[J.Greene]

Does it really matter anyway? These guys are freak shows to begin with...V02 max twice that of the normal human. Paid to ride bikes 8 hours a day. No real thought required, just listen to the voice in your ear piece. In the end, it is not like these guys are using crack, dealing/robbing/stealing to get their next fix and as far as I can tell, there is not a big market for EPO. To them, a little EPO to prime the pump, so to speak. :banana:


Yes it does big time. My race team is about 1/2 adults and 1/2 juniors. A few of our juniors are very good, good enough to have a good shot at nationals. If they get to go on to bigger things, I'd like this sport to be clean for their sake. We need to do the best job for the kids we can.

JG

[gdw]

"First off doped or not these guys are the greatest endurance athletes on the planet"

I strongly disagree. Cycling is a demanding sport but running is harder on the body and much more competitive. Watch a major or minor marathon. Ever notice how many Africans, especially Kenyans, are in the top 10? Pro cyclists are talented but the Kenyans would kick their pampered doped up butts if their countries roads were better and they could afford quality bikes.

As to tough cyclists, check out the accompishments of ultra endurance riders like John Stamstad and Mike Curiak in the Great Divide Race -http://www.greatdividerace.com/. The GDR is 2490 miles of riding on mainly dirt roads and trails with no support allowed.

[Dave B]

I have an idea. Serotta should enter a team in this year's Tour. I, of course, would be team leader (my idea, remember). You would be one of my domestiques. Anway.... we would come in last place....but that would be temporary as all the other teams teams would ultimately be disqualified as soon as drug test results appeared. Team Serotta would be crowned winner of the Tour. I would become rich, famous, and would be sought by all the pretty ladies of the cycling world...Life is good.... :) :)


Team Leader

Team Serotta



I am soooo willing to ride and protect you. I am not fast, but I bet I can take almost any of those pros in a fist fight! They do not stand a chance with a fat lip trying to drink out of their bottles. If Cinzano can put a pump into Dave Stohler then by god it is time I fight for America! Plus I would gladly tie a rope from my bike to yours if it would help in the mountains or TTT. Any link toy uo is a good one...atmo!

[Kahuna]

That made me laugh so hard milk came out my nose..........and I don't drink milk.

Dave

Careful Dave, you can puke up your spleen when that happens. :D

-K

[sg8357]

[QUOTE=Len J] But I am dope-free, and so long as I can even finish the thing, it may worth at least one of those jerseys on my wall... :beer:


This years TDF will be contested by Team Pactour Elite and Team Cinghale
and a bunch of French guys.

Team Pactour has protested the rules requiring riders to stop each day,
saying it makes for wimpy racing. Team Cinghale has protested the quality of
wine served at the feed zones.

Scott G.

[ClutchCargo]

If anyone from "team Serotta" wins a mountain stage, please remember to zip up your jersey before crossing the line.

"finishes" a mountain stage???

That there team car better have some pretty large (and strong) door handles, if ya know whattuh mean. :)


p.s. if the team chef is willing to include apple fritters on the training table, I'll sign up right now ! :D

[malcolm]

gdw, I'll give you the ultra endurance guys, runners I'm not so sure. I've run marathons, not keynan fast but OK for an old fat boy and it is harder on the body than say a century but not so sure about a grand tour. When they run marathons for 21 straight days I'll be sold. Now kenyans trained on top quality cycling gear, that would be a tour I would watch. So, I guess my point may be Kenyans yes, runners in general no.

[Avispa]

After all is said and done, I have yet to see a Pro rider be as good as he/she was when he/she came back from a doping suspension.

Look at Millar, look at Hamilton, look at Garzelli... I doubt it if Basso will ever be as good as he was in '06, when his suspension is over in 2008.

:no:

[LesMiner]

Basso may be just the tip of the iceberg among riders. I am sure that the authorities are more interested in getting at the source of doping than prosecuting riders. I think prosecuting the doctors and others on the supply of the dope will do more to put it to an end. Otherwise they will resort more and more to stealth type tactics to hide or evade detection. If one rider gets by undetected then the others will be compelled to do the same to be competitive. For Basso not giving any rider names does keep him from looking like a rat. If he did rat on other riders, he would never be accepted in pro cycling. Maybe that's the give and take in the plea bargain?

As far as Lance is concerned, he was recognised early as doctors said " my god he must have 3 lungs!". As early as 18 Lance was viewed as the next great cyclist, possibly the greatest ever. How many drug tests, spot checks, investigations, did Lance go through? Once he was suspected because the test picked up hydocortisone that came from a creme he used for a rash between his legs. Anyone can buy that creme under many names over the counter anywhere in the world, even France. Speaking of France I like the French presses analysis, probably the lamest one ever stated.. Lance should be disqualified because he has an unfair advantage from being strenghened by chemotherapy.

Greg Lemond went on the Lance attack. But as Lance pointed out, Greg had a faster time trial than Lance. So what dope was Greg Lemond taking? Pantani the doping poster boy, blew Lance away on a mountain stage I think it the 2000 tour. If Lance did any doping he sure managed to hide it better than anyone else.

[jeffg]

"First off doped or not these guys are the greatest endurance athletes on the planet"

I strongly disagree. Cycling is a demanding sport but running is harder on the body and much more competitive. Watch a major or minor marathon. Ever notice how many Africans, especially Kenyans, are in the top 10? Pro cyclists are talented but the Kenyans would kick their pampered doped up butts if their countries roads were better and they could afford quality bikes.



"Much more competitive?" What does that mean exactly? At times a few seconds separates riders after three weeks of racing. That seems pretty competitive to me.

Yes, running is harder on the body, but so is WWE wrestling I would wager so again, that seems not to speak to the quality of endurance athletes.

I have run marathons, but try riding a grand tour. I would even say a tough double century is harder than a marathon.

The only point that rings true is the geographical diversity point, but until riders from other countries step up and knock the current peloton off their blocks, the jury is out IMHO.

But pampered? Lots of riders in Europe come from the school of hard knocks. Pampered my a**

[regularguy412]

" 3 lungs" ? -- Miguel Indurain: lung capacity approx. 11 liters, normal human: approx. 8 liters

If memory serves-- Lance Armstrong: highest lactate threshold tested to date ( ca. 1999)

Not all superior performances need be linked to doping.

Mike in AR

[Len J]

As far as Lance is concerned, he was recognised early as doctors said " my god he must have 3 lungs!". As early as 18 Lance was viewed as the next great cyclist, possibly the greatest ever. How many drug tests, spot checks, investigations, did Lance go through? Once he was suspected because the test picked up hydocortisone that came from a creme he used for a rash between his legs. Anyone can buy that creme under many names over the counter anywhere in the world, even France.


Yea....and look how often Basso was tested......totally an irrelevant point as cheater after cheater has been discovered, not thru testing but rather thru stings.

So every one of his challangers has tested positive and you don't question that he might have used?

LOL

Len

[ada@prorider.or]

its just like lance use to say
i never tested positive

[ada@prorider.or]

" my god he must have 3 lungs!"..


i hope you al remenber the doctor of tom boonen
as he said he never seen something like the numbers of tom


wonder how that comes?

[Archibald]

Proof you can't trust those Europeans! They all cheat just to try to keep an honest American from winning! Bastids! :butt:

[David Kirk]

Careful Dave, you can puke up your spleen when that happens. :D

-K

So that's what that thing was..........COOL!

Dave

[Karin Kirk]

So that's what that thing was..........COOL!

Dave

Are you making a mess in the office while I'm gone?

[David Kirk]

Are you making a mess in the office while I'm gone?

No Mam.

Dave

[rounder]

the more i read the papers the more respect i have for indurain...you got the impression he could have won the tdf in sneakers and shades.

[Louis]

the more i read the papers the more respect i have for indurain...you got the impression he could have won the tdf in sneakers and shades.

R,

I hope this doesn't sound too confrontational, I'm actually just wondering, but it sounds like you're implying something:

What's the proof, if any, that he's the last TDF winner who wasn't doping? (I guess I'm assuming that there's an unbroken line of dopers all the way back to him, and I can't prove that either, but for the sake of argument let's ignore that.)

Maybe I've just become too cynical, but IMO one has to doubt nearly everyone in this game, especially those who are very successful.

Louis

[soulspinner]

I am soooo willing to ride and protect you. I am not fast, but I bet I can take almost any of those pros in a fist fight! They do not stand a chance with a fat lip trying to drink out of their bottles. If Cinzano can put a pump into Dave Stohler then by god it is time I fight for America! Plus I would gladly tie a rope from my bike to yours if it would help in the mountains or TTT. Any link toy uo is a good one...atmo!

Hey, we can be the goons of cycling. None of us will have front teeth but hell, were eating donuts anyway. Im willing to take everybody on the other teams out to get to the podium girls. Ill have to remember to put my false teeth in before the ceremonial smooches...

[CNY rider]

Hey, we can be the goons of cycling. None of us will have front teeth but hell, were eating donuts anyway. Im willing to take everybody on the other teams out to get to the podium girls. Ill have to remember to put my false teeth in before the ceremonial smooches...


sounds more like a hockey team eh?

[bostondrunk]

If you think Indurain didn't dope, then you still don't 'get it', as the cool kids would have said........

[J.Greene]

the more i read the papers the more respect i have for indurain...you got the impression he could have won the tdf in sneakers and shades.

I feel just the opposite. I think he was the first tdf winner in the epo era.

JG

[bostondrunk]

I feel just the opposite. I think he was the first winner in the epo era.

JG

+1

Probably not the first race winner to use EPO, but yeah, maybe the first winner of the TDF on it, assuming LeMond wasn't on it.

[Avispa]

+1
Probably not the first race winner to use EPO, but yeah, maybe the first winner of the TDF on it, assuming LeMond wasn't on it.
+ 2, now...

Now, the following news almost made me puke my spleen this morning (from laughing, that is):

From Cycling News: Discovery Channel Team has declared itself to be "surprised," "disappointed and saddened" by Ivan Basso's disclosure that he was involved with Dr. Eufemiano Fuentes, "prior to being signed as a member" of the team. Directeur Sportif Johann Bruyneel called it "an unfortunate situation" for the team.

But, wait! Lance did not use Fuentes, he used the services of Dr. Ferrari a man that has said many times in public that using EPO is cool... Maybe Johann has not heard of Ferrari, ya know.... Give him a break. :eek:

Man, why do people like Simoni and Manzano do not sound like big mouths anymore!!!!

[bostondrunk]

Remember the golden rule in pro sports:

It's only cheating if you get caught!

[LegendRider]

the more i read the papers the more respect i have for indurain...you got the impression he could have won the tdf in sneakers and shades.

Indurain won 5 straight Tours during the height of the "unregulated" EPO era (i.e., before the 50% hematocrit threshold). That alone is very suspicious..

[Avispa]

Indurain won 5 straight Tours during the height of the "unregulated" EPO era (i.e., before the 50% hematocrit threshold). That alone is very suspicious..

Yeah, and that was until Bjarne Riis beat Indurain. Riis as we may know, was a rider for Gewiss/Ballan, a team that had no other than Michelle Ferrari as the team Doctor....

Remember also, that the small Evgeni Berzin from Russia, beat Indurain in the '94 Giro.... And Berzin, also from Gewiss, did not even have half the lungs of Indurain!!!!

Now, Basso:

"My life changed when I met Riis."
- Basso says he's very much from this earth, and he attributes his superlative performances to his team manager Bjarne Riis

You, forum pal, you draw your own conclusions....

[Big Dan]

Believe Avispa............

[J.Greene]

I'm really looking forward to the first clean Tour de France in history. It will be an awsome race run at an avg speed of 17mph.

JG

[William]

Same as it ever was....

http://www.ars.pl/images/filmy/StopMakingSense/1.jpg



William

[gt6267a]

There is a radio show out of San Diego, I believe that is the location, called the Competitors. I found out about it from this forum and they post pod-casts on their website, which I don’t remember anymore. They had one of Greg LeMond which was very interesting.

He talked about training for the 89, 90, and 91 tours. For both the 89 and 90 wins he was not in ideal shape due to getting mono or the flu or some such thing. For both tour wins in training, he motor paced behind his wife, I think, on a Vespa doing 80 km/h. In 91, he talked about his training being perfect and when he motor paced it was at 85 km / h. The idea here is that he was ready and more fit in 91.

He was riding strong and expecting to win the 91 tour handily. On the pod cast, he talks about being beaten by people who he had beaten the previous year when he was in worse shape. Further, he goes ahead and states that a rider from his team went to ONCE. A few months later he talks to that rider who told him the reason why they were so much stronger was the use of epo and steroids. He did not mention the name of the rider, but for those who know the history better than I … 1) he rode for Lemond’s team 2) he switched to ONCE and 3) he died 6 months after switching to ONCE and I believe it was from a heart attack.

On the podcast, LeMond does not just imply but states that his tour wins were clean and the next tour winner was not.

[fiamme red]

He talked about training for the 89, 90, and 91 tours. For both the 89 and 90 wins he was not in ideal shape due to getting mono or the flu or some such thing. For both tour wins in training, he motor paced behind his wife, I think, on a Vespa doing 80 km/h. In 91, he talked about his training being perfect and when he motor paced it was at 85 km / h. The idea here is that he was ready and more fit in 91.

He was riding strong and expecting to win the 91 tour handily.I'm not sure about that. He hadn't won anything in 1991 previous to the Tour.

Here's an article by Sam Abt from 7/5/1991, wondering about LeMond's chances considering that he hadn't done well all season:

http://www.iht.com/articles/1991/07/05/bike.php

[Avispa]

There is a radio show out of San Diego, I believe that is the location, called the Competitors. I found out about it from this forum and they post pod-casts on their website, which I don’t remember anymore. They had one of Greg LeMond which was very interesting....
The interview you are talking about was discussed here. (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=20750&highlight=Motor+pacing)

I remember also when I worked at the 1991 Tour, LeMond was talking a lot about his problems with lead poisoning (from the shooting accident a few years earlier) and not having enough power and recovery in during the race.

It's interesting, however, to see how stories and attitudes change through the years. In '91 LeMond never suggested that anyone (including him) was doping. Yet, a few years later, the topic has being talked about so much by him and others currently racing that it is almost sickening!

[gt6267a]

fr – Not certain if we are reading the same article. What I get from reading your article is that GL didn’t give a pooch about anything other than the tour, had not done much pre-tour in other years either, but yet he was the fav. Not a whole lot there trashing him.

Avispa –That makes sense with the interview. In it, GL talks about how when he was outperformed he wondered why and in the moment proposed many reasons. Then, later, found out why. At least this is his claim.

In the big picture, I would like to believe GL but of course don’t really know. The idea that the cocktails today are better than yesteryear does seem to ring true. As does the idea that at least in the past riders have good and bad days. During the terminator years, it seemed like there were not enough bad days to account for the great ones.

I know we all talked about this once before, but I am wondering what people are now thinking about retroactive testing. Starting now, declare that blood and urine samples will be saved for 10 years. Then, run all the latest tests on the 10 year old blood / urine. If something is caught, you are stripped and have to repay the cash.

Unless WADA / UCI / whoever are really a decade behind, would that not provide a seriously impediment to using anything? Even the latest coolest?

[ada@prorider.or]

the more i read the papers the more respect i have for indurain....

if i was you i would not do that
ask massimo T he knows

[pdxmech13]

Testa translates for Brillo

[rounder]

If you think Indurain didn't dope, then you still don't 'get it', as the cool kids would have said........

i am not disagreeing with anything you all said. but in the days when indurain was winning it didn't seem like an issue. plus, miguel seemed to do it so effortlessly. when i was growing up (admittedly older than most of you), being a good sport was something to strive for (if not at least taking into consideration). i watched all the sports i like...baseball, basketball, football, etc. get tainted with greed, money drugs and stuff. when i first started watching bike racing, it seemed different. there seemed to be more comaradie and coolness (loved the oakleys) among the competitors. it seemed more like friendly competition (what did i know). there was greg winning the tdf...they would flip the cameras to greg's loving wife. afterwards, there were many other great stories...lance recovering from cancer (my father died of cancer so struck a nerve with me). these days, you don't even know who won the race. it will be up to the courts to decide. i guess i am saying that i am super disillusioned with pretty much all sports, including cycling...but still like bikes and riding them. sorry...didn't mean to rant but it struck a nerve.