Campagnolo front derailleur with full length housing?

[Mark McM]

I'm looking at a frame that requires full length housing when used with mechanical shifting. The frame doesn't use traditional round tubing, so a clamp-on cable stop can't be used. Are there any solutions for using Campagnolo front derailleurs with full length housing? Failing that, anyone have experience using other brand derailleurs that can use full length housing (such as Shimano) with Campagnolo 12spd shifters?

[dddd]

I've used various front derailers with Campag micro-indexing shift levers, never had a problem.

Older front derailers with cable housing stops come to mind, everything from a Suntour VX to a Huret 700.

One thing I might tweak is the cage width, and the tunable (bending in or out) front edge of the outer cage plate. This all depends on the chain's width, as well as subtle factors like the cassette width and chainstay length.

Here's with the old Huret (Schwinn Sprint) front derailer, although ironically there is no front derailer cable housing at the bottom bracket because this frame's cable housing stop was broken off, I simply routed the bare cable wildly under the huge diameter bb shell, lol.
https://live.staticflickr.com/7059/6832436050_9ebc5b6e30_b.jpg

[Mark McM]

I've used various front derailers with Campag micro-indexing shift levers, never had a problem.

The issue is that Campagnolo 2015+ Ultra front shifters are not micro-indexing. They only have 4 positions (3 clicks), vs. the 7 positions (6 clicks) of pre-2015 Ultra shifters, and the 12 positions (11 clicks) of 10spd Ergo levers. Ultra front shifters have 2 index positions for the big ring (full + trim) and 2 index positions for the small ring (full + trim).

If the cable travel of the lever is longer than for the derailleur, then it might be able to shift between chainrings, but be missing trim positions. If the cable travel of the lever is shorter than for the derailleur, it might not shift at all.

[dddd]

One can monkey with the derailer's leverage via the cable attachment point.

I've used "washer sandwiches" to effect subtle changes, and in some cases I've positioned the cable to the other side of the pinch bolt, as when using a 640x front derailer with 7400 STI levers.

And I've ditched front trim positions without issue when using triple STI levers with a double crankset.

[oldpotatoe]

I'm looking at a frame that requires full length housing when used with mechanical shifting. The frame doesn't use traditional round tubing, so a clamp-on cable stop can't be used. Are there any solutions for using Campagnolo front derailleurs with full length housing? Failing that, anyone have experience using other brand derailleurs that can use full length housing (such as Shimano) with Campagnolo 12spd shifters?

Is the seat tube oval as well? No cable stops up by the head tube on downtube?
I've 'fashioned' some sort of cable stop either using a clamp-on pulley clamp and even a gizmo that was under the BB, but had a 'stop' in front of it, then ran the inner wire under the BB.

Yup, unfortunately, the 2015+ and 12s LH shifters aren't as versatile as pre 2015.

[Mark McM]

Is the seat tube oval as well? No cable stops up by the head tube on downtube?
I've 'fashioned' some sort of cable stop either using a clamp-on pulley clamp and even a gizmo that was under the BB, but had a 'stop' in front of it, then ran the inner wire under the BB.

In this case, it is a carbon frame that uses internal cabling, where the housing enters at the head tube and exits a hole at the back of the BB shell, so there little opportunity to add a cable stop. I suppose it is physically possible to bond a stop onto the back of the seat tube, but that would take fashioning a custom cable stop, prepping the carbon frame for bonding, actually bonding the stop on, and then repainting the bond area and blending the freshly painted surfaces into the old paint - but that's far beyond how far I'd be willing to go.

I wonder if anyone has every made a derailleur tab mounted cable stop (much like there are derailleur tab mounted chain keepers or fork crown mounted cable stops)?

[Ralph]

"Problem solvers" have anything?

[Applesauce]

I can’t comment directly, but I once used a 9000 FD with post-2015 11s Campy levers and it worked, but not acceptably. The “indexing” of the trim detents were in all the wrong places.

Having said that, the same derailleurs work perfectly (dare I say, better than OE!) with pre-2015 11s Campy; I run them on two bikes.

I’m going to find out shortly (<1 week) if the same derailleur works on 12s Campy, and will let you know. I’m 98% positive the 9000 derailleurs need the same amount of cable as 9100, which doesn’t require a downtube or BB stop. If you can verify that, I will be able to verify whether the “long arm” 9000 FD works with 12s SR shifters.

[Mark McM]

I can’t comment directly, but I once used a 9000 FD with post-2015 11s Campy levers and it worked, but not acceptably. The “indexing” of the trim detents were in all the wrong places.

Having said that, the same derailleurs work perfectly (dare I say, better than OE!) with pre-2015 11s Campy; I run them on two bikes.

I’m going to find out shortly (<1 week) if the same derailleur works on 12s Campy, and will let you know. I’m 98% positive the 9000 derailleurs need the same amount of cable as 9100, which doesn’t require a downtube or BB stop. If you can verify that, I will be able to verify whether the “long arm” 9000 FD works with 12s SR shifters.

Pre-2015 11spd Campy still had micro-detents for the front shifting, making them usable with a wide range of derailleurs. These shifters are the same overall shape as 2015+ shifters, so you could potentially mix and match shifters, with a pre-2015 left shifter and a 2015+ right shifter ... well, you could do that if you were using rim brakes. Sadly, all hydraulic (disc brake) shifters use the 2015+ indexed front shifting, so if you are using hydraulic disc brakes, you're stuck.

[Mark McM]

"Problem solvers" have anything?

Nope, apparently not. They have clamp on cable stops, and clamp on cable pulleys, but these only work with round tube frames.

[Applesauce]

...you're stuck.

Indeed. But with 12s, the geometry of the "long-arm" Campy and Shimano front derailleurs looks similar. Is it similar enough to be plug and play? I dunno. I'll find out.

[Mark McM]

I can’t comment directly, but I once used a 9000 FD with post-2015 11s Campy levers and it worked, but not acceptably. The “indexing” of the trim detents were in all the wrong places.

Having said that, the same derailleurs work perfectly (dare I say, better than OE!) with pre-2015 11s Campy; I run them on two bikes.

I’m going to find out shortly (<1 week) if the same derailleur works on 12s Campy, and will let you know. I’m 98% positive the 9000 derailleurs need the same amount of cable as 9100, which doesn’t require a downtube or BB stop. If you can verify that, I will be able to verify whether the “long arm” 9000 FD works with 12s SR shifters.

Have you tried the Shimano front derailleur with 12spd Campagnolo shifter yet?

In a related question - you mentioned that a pre-2015 shifter (with micro-detents) worked fine with the Shimano front derailleur, which makes perfect sense. Has anybody tried swapping the guts of a pre-2015 left shifter into a Campagnolo 2015+ shifter?

I'm specifically wondering about swapping the pre-2015 guts into a Campagnolo hydraulic brake shifter (which are all 2015+), to work with a disc brake bike. I'm guessing this would probably work, but I'm wondering if anybody has tried it yet.

[Applesauce]

I have not tried it yet, sorry. The whole project is waiting for a rear derailleur that’s sitting at customs (Canadian distributors have none).

The same bike is still built with pre-2015 shifters and rear derailleur, and DA 9k front derailleur - which when I built the bike were vastly superior to the Campy alternatives. The 12s Campy derailleurs have totally caught up, but I thought I might as well not replace the front derailleur if I didn’t have to. I will get it all together as soon as the powers that be release that RD!

I haven’t dissembled a shifter since 10s, though I did a lot of those. That’s an Old Potato question…

[Andy340]

I have a 2015+ chorus fr mech with full cable housing run mated to Potenza levers (so no micro indents) on Niner RLT steel.
Initially set up was very finicky but I spliced in a barrel adjuster* to housing and can now micro adjust trim so works well now.

* JAGWIRE INLINE INDEX CABLE ADJUSTERS

[Applesauce]

I have a 2015+ chorus fr mech with full cable housing run mated to Potenza levers (so no micro indents) on Niner RLT steel.
Initially set up was very finicky but I spliced in a barrel adjuster* to housing and can now micro adjust trim so works well now.

* JAGWIRE INLINE INDEX CABLE ADJUSTERS

Where is (or does) the housing stop?

[Andy340]

Forgot to mention - housing is held in a thread-in clamp type mechanism on downtube

[Mark McM]

Forgot to mention - housing is held in a thread-in clamp type mechanism on downtube

So, the housing stop was added to the frame tube? That's the problem in my case - a housing stop can't be added to the frame. The frame in question is a carbon frame with internally run cable housing. The housing exits the frame behind the BB, with no cable stop on the frame. Because the seat tube is not a regular round shape, a clamp-on housing stop can't be used.

[fmradio516]

Im really not digging the whole internal routing thing... for off-road frames, it makes sense, but for a road bike, IMO its a nuisance. Currently dealing with it on my new Lynskey... its an awful lot of housing drag for the rear derailleur(6ft of housing), but i just bought a Jagwire elite kit to see if it helps!

[dddd]

Don't the 8000 and 9100 front derailer(s) have a tiny cable housing stop?

Not Campy, I know.

What frame vintage?

[Mark McM]

Don't the 8000 and 9100 front derailer(s) have a tiny cable housing stop?

Not Campy, I know.

What frame vintage?

Yes, Shimano R8000 & R9100 (and R7000) front derailleurs have an integrated housing stop - which is why I asked about using a Shimano front derailleurs with Campagnolo shifters.

The frame I'm looking into to is the new Trek Domane RSL. This frame is compatible with mechanical shifting cables, but it has no housing stops at all, just ports for housings to enter and leave the frame. The housings are intended to run the full length from shifters to derailleurs.

[oldpotatoe]

Yes, Shimano R8000 & R9100 (and R7000) front derailleurs have an integrated housing stop - which is why I asked about using a Shimano front derailleurs with Campagnolo shifters.

The frame I'm looking into to is the new Trek Domane RSL. This frame is compatible with mechanical shifting cables, but it has no housing stops at all, just ports for housings to enter and leave the frame. The housings are intended to run the full length from shifters to derailleurs.

Well, considering a shimano front der with an integrated stop...You 'could' swap the shift guts in your LH lever to a pre 12s/pre 2015 type guts. Opening up a 12s lever, pretty sure that is possible. Multi click shift disc and probably toothed cog in front. Pretty sure I have this stuff. OR a pre 2015 LH shifter assembly..swap the hood and brake blade.

[Applesauce]

Sorry, just found enough time to spend in the shop with my own bike to sort this out. SR 12s shifter and DA9k front derailleur work great. Slightly more effort at the lever than Record/Record, but the indexing is perfect.

[Mark McM]

Sorry, just found enough time to spend in the shop with my own bike to sort this out. SR 12s shifter and DA9k front derailleur work great. Slightly more effort at the lever than Record/Record, but the indexing is perfect.

Thanks for trying this out. I feel much better about being able to use a Campagnolo drivetrain on a bike I'm eyeing that requires full length housing for the front derailleur.