Bad experience with an Ebay seller called azbikeagent

[Walter]

I recently had a very bad experience with a frequent Ebay seller of bicycle items named Daniel Palmer. He uses the Ebay ID of azbikeagent and lists his address as IBD PRO SHOP, United States. He is in the Phoenix, AZ area. He may also use the name Charles.

I purchased an item, fully paid for it, and never received it. I sent multiple emails to him about not getting the item and never got a response (all of my emails sent before I paid in full were quickly answered by him). I filed a PayPal claim and PayPal ruled in my favor.

A big hassle that I could have avoided by not dealing with this fellow at all. His Ebay feedback is spotty with other complaints. Live and learn.

[link]

Actually azbikeagent's feedback is pretty good ...98.6% positive.

Regardless ...support your local bike shop whenever you can.

[Walter]

98.6% Positive feedback is actually considered not good by experienced users of eBay. The details of this fellows feedback shows some interesting complaints related to getting the items to the purchaser. His feedback also has a significant number of neutrals and negatives over the last year.

[stevep]

buy local. save pain.

[RABikes2]

+1
I agree. If you support your local bike shop, they will support you. At least we do in our shop. If you buy from us and it turns out there is a problem, we do as much as possible to make that situation turn around to make the customer happy, content, and satisfied. Of course, as much as we try, you can't please everybody all the time.

All folks are welcomed and we treat all with respect and good customer service, but our "regulars"... we do our best to give them that extra special touch. ;)
RA

[Walter]

I agree completely with those who have posted about fully supporting your LBS. That has been my practice for decades. This was a vintage part I could not find anywhere else.

I guess I am relatively lucky in that I have made a number of Ebay purchases of vintage bikes and parts over the last few months when I could not find what I wanted elsewhere and this was the first flake I have run into.

What has been interesting is that Ebay is stridently protecting this fellow's address and other contact info and appears unwilling to look into his track record with them. It has made me a bit leery of Ebay. Anonymity is a breeding ground for shabby business practices and worse.

[eddief]

it used to be possible to get the seller's phone number with a bit of digging on ebay. as i recall, i did that once and surprised the crap out of the seller when he picked up the phone. i might be thinking of a site other than ebay, but pretty sure.

[Bill D]

That sucks. eBay is great most of the time, but when you have a bad experience, it can really sour you on the whole thing.

I live in Phoenix, and I've never heard of a shop by that name. Doesn't look like it's in the phone book either. I bet this is a guy who runs a virtual shop out of his house just for ebay. Do you have an address? Not that I'm offering to go break kneecaps or anything. :cool: But if it's a real brick-and-mortar outfit, I want to be sure to avoid giving him any business.

-bd

[Walter]

I should have some names (if the screen name is not real) and addresses shortly which I will be happy to share.

[MarleyMon]

neutral is the new negative

I've learned a lot reading the comments

[torquer]

neutral is the new negative

I've learned a lot reading the comments

I was about to leave a neutral feedback for a recent purchase (item, a saddle, showed a lot more wear & scuffs than described, but since I paid less than $30 I wasn't that upset), when an e-bay dialogue box came up: "Are you sure you want to do this?" (or something to that effect). Made me reconsider, since I didn't want to set off WW3 or something. Wound up not leaving any feedback at all; after all, a retaliatory negative feedback from the seller would do me more damage (with my 20 transactions) than my neutral/negative would do to him (with his hundreds or thousands).

Bottom line: caveat emptor!

[bostondrunk]

Reminds me of the time dbrk had a problem with IF (I think...) and a bunch of forum members contacted them directly. Not pretty...

[Walter]

That sucks. eBay is great most of the time, but when you have a bad experience, it can really sour you on the whole thing.

I live in Phoenix, and I've never heard of a shop by that name. Doesn't look like it's in the phone book either. I bet this is a guy who runs a virtual shop out of his house just for ebay. Do you have an address? Not that I'm offering to go break kneecaps or anything. :cool: But if it's a real brick-and-mortar outfit, I want to be sure to avoid giving him any business.

-bd

I should have an address and correct name soon. I think you are correct in that he runs this deal out of his house.

[inGobwetrust]

What really ticks me off is when a seller waits for me to post positive feedback about a transaction before he posts feedback for me. I've already paid in a timely manner, what more can he be waiting for? It's their way of saying "If you mess with me I'll ruin your rating!"

Here is an email I just sent to a seller whos auction I just won for a fly reel:

"Can I ask you a question? You ask me to post feedback once I receive my item. No problem, I always post good feedback where it's deserved. Why do you not post good feedback for me since I already made my payment via Paypal and have held up my end of the bargain? I get the feeling that big sellers hold their feedback to make sure the buyers don't post negative feedback about them. Please don't misconstrue what I'm saying here, maybe this is a pure oversight but I find it to be a pattern with big sellers. Can you give me your point of view here?"

Do you think I'll get a response? I haven't received my reel yet, should I have waited?

[Bill D]

Walter: I'll be interested to hear if it's a real shop or not. Keep us posted.

On the topic of ebay feedback, I totally agree that it's BS when sellers wait to leave feedback until you leave feedback for them. There's no doubt in my mind that this is a method of hedging against the possibility of negative feedback. If you do end up getting bad service or a shoddy item, you have to decide whether it's worth the negative feedback you'll surely receive to give a seller negative--or even neutral--feedback. The result MUST be a major under-reporting of negative feedback on ebay.

Years ago, I don't think as many sellers operated like that; you could generally count on getting good feedback as soon as you paid. Now that there are so many gigantic sellers, with automated emails and everything, ebay is a lot less personal than it originally was. It's actually an interesting look at how a market develops and produces professional merchants with their own brands and reputations. But this threat of retaliatory feedback is clearly a major flaw in the whole ebay feedback system.

[slowgoing]

As a buyer, I never give feedback until they give it first.

[93legendti]

it used to be possible to get the seller's phone number with a bit of digging on ebay. as i recall, i did that once and surprised the crap out of the seller when he picked up the phone. i might be thinking of a site other than ebay, but pretty sure.
Actually, it is very easy. The winning bidder only has to submit a request for contact info and the name, address and phone number will be emailed to the winning bidder.

http://search.ebay.com/ws/search/AdvSearch?advsearch=&sofindtype=9

[gdw]

As a seller, I always wait on posting feedback until the buyer contacts me. Here's why. Buyers are fickle and might not agree with your description of a used item. I always send them an email when the item is shipped so they know roughly when it will arrive and ask them to contact me when they receive it. I do this to insure that the package arrived intact and that the item is in the condition they expected. I post feedback after they confirm that they are satisfied with the purchase. I have never had any problems in over 200 transactions but am willing to resolve any issues which might arise.

[thejen12]

What really ticks me off is when a seller waits for me to post positive feedback about a transaction before he posts feedback for me. I've already paid in a timely manner, what more can he be waiting for? It's their way of saying "If you mess with me I'll ruin your rating!"


As a seller, I've learned to wait until the buyer receives the item before posting feedback. That's because I had a buyer totally mess with me and claim the item I shipped was not as described. Actually, it was a Masi bike frame in excellent original condition and the buyer claimed it was not a Masi! As luck would have it, the shop I had purchased the frame from when new was near the buyer and I referred the buyer to that shop and the owner remembered the frame and knew the complete history of the Masi companies and the buyer was apparently satisfied and was never heard from again. But it was a pain in the *** while I had to deal with it. And... who would'a thunk? What's next, the derailleur I sent you was not really Shimano, even though it says Shimano all over it?

So now I wait, to make sure the buyer is satisfied or at least reasonable in their response to the item when they receive it. I don't have to wait until the buyer gives me ebay feedback, just until I hear from the buyer (but sometimes the only thing you hear from a buyer is the ebay feedback, even though I usually request an email letting me know that the item arrived in good condition).

Jenn

[Dave B]

+1

The buyer is the one who should leave feedback first. They are the ones who in the end control the deal. Well more or less. If you do not like what you got try to work it out with the seller.

I had a ebay up on my computer on my break. Left the room to pick up kids and one of my students who was serving detention clicked buy it now on a Lance poster for $100.

He thought I would like the poster. I immediatly contacted the seller, and pleaded my case. I sent him money to relist the ad, which he was very gracious for. I thought we had everything worked out and he left me negative feedback.

To this day it is the only feedback I have that is not positive.

But i have also had people threaten to leave negative feedback if I did not leave feedback for them first.

Sometimes people get pretty anxious with that stuff. Me, I just hope karma is a real thing!


or I could be wrong and you should stick it to the man!

[Dave B]

Reminds me of the time dbrk had a problem with IF (I think...) and a bunch of forum members contacted them directly. Not pretty...



I heard a story from IF's point of view of a bike that was made exactly as the customer ordered. To the T even after they suggested better options. When the customer got it he changed his mind. As he felt what IF had suggested would have been better. IF said we can make you a bike at a discount, the custumer refused. The custumer Posted HER/HIS experience here and people accused IF of being in the wrong. They trashed them up and down.

Ben even got involved and told his friends at IF to just make the customer a new bike to save face even though he knew IF was in the right.

The fine people at IF made the customer a new bike for free and sent it to him.

Seems like a good comapny to me. atmo.

Not saying it was DBRK at all, but that reminded me of that story. Always wanted to meet the customer on that one. But this was a few years ago. not recent.

[Walter]

I have been reading of the plight of others at the hands of unscrupulous internet sellers and thought I would share a recent development with one of mine named AZBIKEAGENT. This is the guy from the Phoenix area who is an Ebay seller, who answered all my questions quickly pre-purchase, who cheerfully took my $$$ for some parts, and who then fell off of the earth w/o sending the parts. PayPal did their thing with him and refunded my $$$ after I was forced to file a claim against him. Lots of hassle for no good reason.

He popped up on another board recently after I posted a note on about his shabby business practices and claimed the parts had been "lost" by UPS. Interestingly, this is almost 5 months after the transaction. Funny thing, he kind of neglected to mention this to me at any time over those 5 months!

One does indeed wonder why he could not have simply responded to my many emails requesting the parts and invitations to call me, if the product was really "lost". He had my email address, several phone numbers, and my law office mailing address. Yet I heard nothing from him at all....ever....still to this day.

I never did find out who this guy really is. Interesting that the shakey ones spend so much time hiding behind a screen name and do their best to conceal real locations, names, and contact information.

The poor quality of and lack of credibility in his long after the fact excuses is the best evidence of what he really is. Careful folks with this one....

[Grant McLean]

What really ticks me off is when a seller waits for me to post positive feedback about a transaction before he posts feedback for me. I've already paid in a timely manner, what more can he be waiting for? It's their way of saying "If you mess with me I'll ruin your rating!"


It ticks me off too. I've done lots of Ebay purchases in the 5 or 6 years, and
only had 1 item never arrive, and recently had an item for the first time that
was not as described. I emailed the seller to ask if the photo in the listing
was accurate. The photo showed a shimano dura ace9sp chain box, of the
early 7700 generation. I asked specifically if the box he's selling said XTR on it,
as I had a feeling he was selling the current 7701 chain. He replied quickly,
"no, the item is exactly as described". I ordered 2 of the chains from him,
and of course, they arrive and they're the new version of the chain.
There's no way I can leave him negative feedback without him giving me
negative feedback too, since he was waiting for me to leave feedback first.
I know this happened to our own 11.4, spoiling his 100% rating with hundreds
of transactions.

It's a real flaw in the feedback system. Why should the seller be able to
leave negative feedback for the seller if they pay? The ebay system should
seperate the buyer and seller feedback. That way, a person with 200 purchases
on ebay doesn't have a 100% rating when they go to sell their first item.
They should have to start from scratch and build a seller's feedback profile too.

-g

[J.Greene]

There's no way I can leave him negative feedback without him giving me
negative feedback too, since he was waiting for me to leave feedback first.
I know this happened to our own 11.4, spoiling his 100% rating with hundreds
of transactions.
-g

My only negative was retaliation from a seller who would not sell because he didn't like the price he got for a Chris King front hub and Mavic rim. I left negative and he did too.

JG

[Polyglot]

It's a real flaw in the feedback system. Why should the seller be able to
leave negative feedback for the seller if they pay? The ebay system should
seperate the buyer and seller feedback. That way, a person with 200 purchases
on ebay doesn't have a 100% rating when they go to sell their first item.
They should have to start from scratch and build a seller's feedback profile too.

-g

There has been an improvement in feedback with respect to this. You can now indiviually report the seller's performance in various area including whether the description was accurate or not. I have given a seller a positive feedback but gave the lowest rating possible for one of the individual areas. You can see it on the seller's record. In the particular seller's case, his description accuracy score is considerably lower than his other scores.

[oldfatslow]

I have an eBay account and have almost 150 transactions split fairly evenly between buyers and sellers. I recently bought an item from a seller who had tons of positive feedback however as soon as I hit BuyItNow and paid via PayPal I had second thoughts as there were signs that something was not right (unfortunately not viewable until after I had committed with BuyItNow and saw details on the Sellers PayPal page). I contacted the seller numerous times with no replies. I contacted eBay and PayPal numerous times and no one was able to help me. Finally, I used the system to get the Sellers contact information and called the phone number on the account and left a voice mail. Within hours of doing that the auction was pulled from the site as though it never happened and no email was sent to me by eBay security stating that the auction was a fraud and here are the steps they recommend I take.

Even though eBay canceled the auction as fraudulent PayPal would not refund my money after numerous calls and e-mails.

I then sent mail to Bill Cobb explaining my concern over my customer experience and got some assistance from his staff but they still couldn't get my money refunded. I still don't have my money back but believe I will with the help of my credit card company.

Some recommendations and observations:

1.) If you have ANY suspicions about the seller or the item don't buy it (as getting your money back is very difficult and time consuming).

2.) PayPal, even though it is a wholly-owned subsidiary, is managed as a completely different corporation and eBay's security team does not seem to influence or direct PayPal's security team -- basically you'll spend double the time as you have to do everything with both of them (versus eBay advocating for you with their wholly-owned subsidiary).

3.) Keep written record of all of your contacts with eBay or PayPal (to whom you spoke, what was agreed, next steps, etc.)

4.) Use a credit card, preferably one with which you've developed a relationship with the offering company, to pay via PayPal so they can advocate for you should things go wrong

Net: eBay is a great market for collectors and enthusiasts to find unique items and pay a fair market price for them. You must, however, be very careful as this is not like doing business directly with a large business, or doign business with your LBS, or even doing buisness with another collector in person.

If anyone wants to discuss further feel free to PM me or send me your phone number and I'll happily call you.

Thanks!

[weisan]

Walter-pal, I am sorry to hear about your experience. Just out of curiosity, why did you start every thread with this as the title: "Bad experience with an Ebay seller called azbikeagent". I think it's redundant. Your thread is labelled as such already. Again, I am sorry for your bad experience.

[Walter]

Walter-pal, I am sorry to hear about your experience. Just out of curiosity, why did you start every thread with this as the title: "Bad experience with an Ebay seller called azbikeagent". I think it's redundant. Your thread is labelled as such already. Again, I am sorry for your bad experience.

I labelled the thread as such because that was the reason for my post and the focus of my message. My recent post was made because the fellow popped up again and I posted under the same thread as before (with the same title) to avoid any duplication. The message box that pops up each time for one to post has a line for a title which I simply fill in with the existing thread title.

I may be missing something here. I thought I was to put the thread title in that box. Help! PM also sent to Weisan.

[thegunner]

i'm kinda peeved that paypal's acting as an escrow service now. maybe i'm overly used to people actually shipping stuff when promised, but i've had a payment held for the LONGEST time because someone didn't leave my feedback even after something was delivered.

[AndrewS]

Over six months ago Ebay changed its policies to prevent retaliatory feedback against buyers. Sellers only have the option of positive or no feedback for their buyers.
For each transaction, buyers and sellers can choose to rate each other by leaving Feedback. Buyers can leave a positive, negative, or a neutral rating, plus a short comment. Sellers can leave a positive rating and a short comment.

So most of this thread is baseless. Many sellers wait to leave feedback as an INCENTIVE to get buyers to leave feedback. This makes sense, since a seller's business reputation is a lot more important than a buyer's, and if you leave feedback immediately the buyer may not bother. But really, it doesn't matter when feedback is left, as long as both parties do it, because of the above policy.

I have used Ebay extensively. If it is not "supporting the LBS", then let's shut down the Classifieds on this board. Bike shops really don't compete with mail order merchants (who've been around much longer than the internet). In 20 years, 5 of which working in shops, I have never seen anyone buy a gruppo in a box from an LBS. That's because certain people do things on their own, and some people need the services of a shop. There is room for both businesses, because they sell similar products to two different types of clients.

BTW, if you order a Spectrum directly, is that cheating the LBS, too?

[Dan Le foot]

And that's why I would much rather buy/sell in this forum.
Dan

[Don49]

There seem to be a lot of comments in this thread about the implied threat of sellers leaving negative feedback for buyers. Sellers don't have an option to leave anything but positive feedback for buyers. If a buyer leaves negative (or neutral) feedback, the most a seller can do is reply to that negative with a followup comment.

Or as eBay puts it: "Sellers can leave only positive ratings for buyers. That means buyers should feel free to leave honest Feedback without fear of retaliation."

[sbornia]

Most of this thread is three years old...

[Don49]

Most of this thread is three years old...

Oops! Sorry about that. Got caught up in the excitement.

[thegunner]

wow, sorry for bumping this, i'm not sure how it showed up at the top of my page...

[AndrewS]

deleted

[thegunner]

didn't mean to, it just showed up at the top of my forum page :crap:

[fourflys]

In 20 years, 5 of which working in shops, I have never seen anyone buy a gruppo in a box from an LBS

Hmm... When I built up my Salsa with Chorus 11sp, I got all the boxes from my LBS... And when you look at the fact of shipping and/or tax and the fact he built my bike up (30 yrs of wrenching experience is way more than me) without charging me for it, I'd say I got a great deal... (Besides, 8 months ago before Park and Pedros introduced theirs, who had an 11sp chain tool who wasn't a shop?)

[Louis]

didn't mean to, it just showed up at the top of my forum page :crap:

It was dredged up by the "Similar Threads" function and appeared at the bottom of the "You know the economy is bad" thread. I noticed it there earlier today.

You probably clicked on it without noticing that it was not in the "Regular Threads" section.

[AndrewS]

Fourflys,

I didn't mean that no one every bought a groupo through a dealer - just that no one bought a groupo to take home still in the boxes. Of course bike dealers have bought AND built groupos. But they don't buy them for people who are going to do the build themselves.

[fourflys]

Ah, I see... wasn't really sure what you meant...

[SEABREEZE]

This thread brings up a reminder of a couple bad experiences buying lenses recently.

The first thing that bugs me the most is when the other party has great communications up to the point you send the funds , then goes south on you after that

This is the case in this scenerio. A money order was sent 2nd day priority.Upon receving the seller was suppose to ship out the lense, well I never heard from him for 9 days. Understand I contacted him several times with freindly reminders. When he finally responds he says hes was coming down with flu, and when he was packing the lense, it fell on the floor and he has to return my funds. I say to him no sweat, but get the funds back to me asap, as I have purchased a new lense and need the funds immediately.
Did he sent back 2nd day, no he puts it in as regular mail on a friday , there is a herrific snow storm, i dont get the mail for anothher week in a half.
All the time anyone would be wondering if this guy is legitt, or have I been ripped off. Ok now to my opinion as to what happened, he received a offer better than mine, waited for the funds to arrive, and then dealt with me at his leisure.

Now the second seller does the same to me,but he handles his affairs in a proper manner.Even sent me a $20 bill for my troubles bascially gave me the same story, the lense is not focusing properly , I have to send it in to the manufacture to be repaired.Now anyone would check to see things are in proper working condition before putting it up for sale, so I beleive after agreeing with our deal, he received a better offer.

Now I just had a amp up for sale, in 5 minutes it was sold.I had numerous calls on it, with several higher offers after I told them sale is pending funds being shipped Of course I sold it to the original buyer

[oldpotatoe]

Actually azbikeagent's feedback is pretty good ...98.6% positive.

Regardless ...support your local bike shop whenever you can.

Hear, hear! It's not just about less money spent. It is often about getting something and having the bike shop stand behind it. It's about bicycles, afterall.

[nahtnoj]

Relatively speaking, aren't you in the Phoenix, AZ area?

If it is a brick and mortar shop go pay him a visit.

I recently had a very bad experience with a frequent Ebay seller of bicycle items named Daniel Palmer. He uses the Ebay ID of azbikeagent and lists his address as IBD PRO SHOP, United States. He is in the Phoenix, AZ area. He may also use the name Charles.

I purchased an item, fully paid for it, and never received it. I sent multiple emails to him about not getting the item and never got a response (all of my emails sent before I paid in full were quickly answered by him). I filed a PayPal claim and PayPal ruled in my favor.

A big hassle that I could have avoided by not dealing with this fellow at all. His Ebay feedback is spotty with other complaints. Live and learn.

[Marcusaurelius]

Actually azbikeagent's feedback is pretty good ...98.6% positive.

Regardless ...support your local bike shop whenever you can.


I would look for 100 or at least 99%.

[Peter B]

Folks, this thread is nearly 3 years old. It was bumped a few days ago by mistake. It needs to be closed. Start a new thread if you have something fresh to say.

[retrogrouchy]

I dunno. I kind of liked reading this thread. (I just read it for the first time this evening). It's kind of a mini-summary of how eBay's feedback system has evolved over the past few years. As an avowed eBay junkie myself, I can tell you that probably the best thing that happened to eBay was when sellers could no longer leave negative or neutral feedback. eBay made that change for one simple reason: their numbers (of buyers, and of sales) had peaked and were decreasing (in the USA). 'Whales' like me had become sickened by all of the BS that was increasingly being perpetrated with impunity by ever more dishonest sellers. That has significantly changed now, in my opinion. It's still not a perfect world, far from from it, but neither is the real one! Now, eBay is more like the real world: one percent of the people cause 99 percent of the significant problems. Your challenge is to find and avoid the 'one percenters.'

Regarding sellers' feedback, in my opinion, anything less than 99.5% long-term is atrocious, and I just plain won't take the chance of buying from a seller like that, in most cases. However, if you intend to purchase from a seller that you have not purchased from previously, you have to *thoroughly* review every bit of his/her feedback first, in my opinion. I actually look at every neutral and negative, follow it as far as I need to, decide if the maybe buyer was a nutcase (it happens!), and if so, ignore that one. Neutrals are just negatives that someone was afraid to leave, so I treat them the same as a negative. Also, feedback left for others matters even more than feedback received, in my opinion! Read all of it! It typically tells you what kind of person the seller is. Once I've sussed out every bad mark, I then re-calculate the seller's positive percentage and again apply the 99.5% min. rule. Honestly, I prefer 100% but that isn't always possible. I look at the amount of money I'm risking as well. If it's a $25 bike part, so what if the deal goes bad? If it's a $1000 item, big, big difference in risk, in my opinion, so I do a bit more 'due diligence' if I don't already know the seller. It's all about trust and risk - just like any other human relationship. This system serves me pretty well, after more than a decade on eBay, and perhaps 5000+ deals made....

Finally, packages don't just get 'lost by USPS/UPS/Fed-X' - it almost never happens! That's a huge red flag for me when I see a seller using that excuse, even once....

[dimsy]

98.6% Positive feedback is actually considered not good by experienced users of eBay. The details of this fellows feedback shows some interesting complaints related to getting the items to the purchaser. His feedback also has a significant number of neutrals and negatives over the last year.

also to be noted is the fact that the percentage is only calculated based on feedback received over the course of the last year. older feedback negative and positive is not counted.

i also agree that just because a thread is old, doesn't mean it should be closed, reviving a solid discussion only benefits new readers.

[pbjbike]

I recently went through my worst ever ebay experience. Non-bike item and buyer extorted a partial refund...Feedback is skewed towards buyers now.Be careful with descriptions and caveats.