Ultra-Torque cranks? Can you feel the difference?

[saab2000]

A buddy of mine just installed a new Record Ultra Torque crank/BB. He claims it feels stiffer. No claim that it makes him faster. Yet.

But I am wondering from those of you who have made the switch, can you really feel a difference? Also, is the Centaur crankset an equivelant 'upgrade' in all respects except that it is about 200 grams heavier than the Record?

I am not really yet in the market for this, but I could imagine the aluminum Centaur version for a bike I will be working on shortly (CSI) if the advantages are there.

I wish there were an aluminum Record or Chorus version. Or would it just be the same as the Centaur?

BTW, my friend also installed a set of Eurus wheels, replacing some mediocre old wheels. This may well have impacted his opinion about the crank, since it was not an isolated replacement.

[cpg]

I really like them but don't feel a difference but I'm not very sensitive. Just ask my wife.

Curt

[Birddog]

He claims it feels stiffer. No claim that it makes him faster.

Viagra for the bike?

Birddog

[saab2000]

Viagra for the bike?

Birddog

If it cost more and contains carbon it is, for the most part, "Bikagra".

[justinf]

I have 2 UT Centaur compact cranksets and 1 square taper Centaur compact crankset. I can't tell the difference as far as stiffness.

I think the Centaur aluminium is what the Record/Chorus would be--quite comparable to my older Record cranks as far as finish level.

I have had a problem recently with the hex bolt in the UT cranksets coming loose over several months' riding time. Granted, I don't own a torque wrench, so that may be the root of the problem. My crank installation process has always been tight as crap with a long hex wrench for leverage. So, take this with a grain of salt. Anyone else had this experience?

[zank]

I agree with Justin. The Centaur is Record level in my mind if you want an aluminum crank. The Centaur chainrings are not hard anodized and coated like Record or Chorus and the chainring bolts are steel, but the arms themsleves are beautifully finished. And I don't think the rings and bolts matter too much. You can always replace the rings after they are worn with Record rings.

[oldguy00]

I have 2 UT Centaur compact cranksets and 1 square taper Centaur compact crankset. I can't tell the difference as far as stiffness.

I think the Centaur aluminium is what the Record/Chorus would be--quite comparable to my older Record cranks as far as finish level.

I have had a problem recently with the hex bolt in the UT cranksets coming loose over several months' riding time. Granted, I don't own a torque wrench, so that may be the root of the problem. My crank installation process has always been tight as crap with a long hex wrench for leverage. So, take this with a grain of salt. Anyone else had this experience?

I have a Record UT crankset.

1. The hex bolt came lose on me too! I too didn't use a torque wrench!! :)
2. I cannot notice any 'stiffness' improvement over any other crankset I've used. They sure are pretty looking though! And thats what counts.... :)

[sg8357]

Across the hall in Ibob/CR universe, the consensus is Magistroni or Stronglight STEEL cranksets, AL is too flexy.
Steel cranks plane or something like that.

Scott G.

[davidlee]

Just switched to record after years of DA .. The ultra torque crank is not as stiff as dura ace ten . Im a bigger guy , 169 lbs , and i can feel it.. Not tremendous difference but not as sturdy as DA.. Anyone had to replace bearings on one of these yet? Is it possible?
davidlee

[ThasFACE]

My crank installation process has always been tight as crap with a long hex wrench for leverage. So, take this with a grain of salt. Anyone else had this experience?

Same installation method and same experience. I like the crank, though, so it strikes me as a small price to pay.... other than the 4 bills for the crank itself.

[oldguy00]

Just switched to record after years of DA .. The ultra torque crank is not as stiff as dura ace ten . Im a bigger guy , 169 lbs , and i can feel it.. Not tremendous difference but not as sturdy as DA.. Anyone had to replace bearings on one of these yet? Is it possible?
davidlee

I'm confused as to how anyone can literally detect flex differences in a crankset...

[sspielman]

I'm confused as to how anyone can literally detect flex differences in a crankset...

Come on, man...get with the program! When you spend $600 on a crankset that features the new technology...and you replaced your perfectly good crank with the tried and true square taper BB, you had better feel *something* to justify the expense....
Seriously, I have experienced crankset flex, but never to the extent that it was a problem...

[davidlee]

In my opinion ,precision racing parts, whether it be bicycle, motorcycle or automobile, produce subtle changes that may or may not be noticable to everyone. When rejetting carbs on vintage motorbikes, for example, you have to have a trained ear and deft touch to feel flat spots and performance increase. Bicycles are no different, perhaps even more slight, but i personally love seat of the pants testing and I honestly feel that i can detect differences in crank flex and frame flex for that matter just by pedaling. I also recently saw data somewhere on this board ,or another one, that was a lateral crank test and the DA was actually stiffer.

[jhcakilmer]

Man, there are a couple cynical critics....but hey, I do that a lot too. I have the Chorus UT, and I think it tends to flex less, then a comparable square taper, but also the bearings in the UT have more drag, atleast when I'm spinning it on the stand.

Now whether this marginally additional lateral/torsional stiffness, and added bearing drag matter, I don't know.

I think the crankset is really only as stiff as the frame that it's mounted to, and maybe only give someone 1-2 extra watts. I think only way to test this is with someone that has a power meter, indoors on a trainer. So at the same heartrate is there any difference in output?

Also, I think the bearing drag is nominal since it requries so little force to overcome the added drag, but this might be harder to test.

Also, I do not think the DA crankset feels any different from the UT, but that's just my oppinion. The UT bearings have the least drag of any external design that I'ved used.....Campy, DA, Truvativ.

Not worth that much extra, but I got my Chorus UT for $225, so I thought I would try it.

[musgravecycles]

Jason

I hate to be cynical myself...

I'm wondering how you can compare your UT to your Square Taper Record that you rode 8 months ago and your DA that we put on your bike 3.5 years ago...

That is however a great deal on your UT crankset, good find bro...

[AgilisMerlin]

Come on, man...get with the program! When you spend $600 on a crankset that features the new technology...and you replaced your perfectly good crank with the tried and true square taper BB, you had better feel *something* to justify the expense....
Seriously, I have experienced crankset flex, but never to the extent that it was a problem...


true true true true

i just smiled, clapped my hands and dropped to the floor :banana:

[weaponsgrade]

I have 2 UT Centaur compact cranksets and 1 square taper Centaur compact crankset. I can't tell the difference as far as stiffness.

I think the Centaur aluminium is what the Record/Chorus would be--quite comparable to my older Record cranks as far as finish level.

I have had a problem recently with the hex bolt in the UT cranksets coming loose over several months' riding time. Granted, I don't own a torque wrench, so that may be the root of the problem. My crank installation process has always been tight as crap with a long hex wrench for leverage. So, take this with a grain of salt. Anyone else had this experience?

So if you had to do it again, would you buy the UT or square taper? I'm trying to decide between the two. They're surprisingly close in price and weight once you add in the BB. Have you had any durability problems with the UT?

[bigbill]

My old pego had an alloy Record crankset that had seen better days. I replaced it with an FSA SLK crankset that was cool for about a year before it started rusting and the bearings started going south. My dad gave me a gift certificate for Competitive Cyclist for Christmas so I picked up a Centaur UT crankset. I wasn't sure about the whole UT thing so I went with the lower end. I figured I could always move it to the commuter if I upgrade.

Installation was easy and the finish was very close to my old record crankset. Nice chainrings as well. I don't know if it flexes, but it feels nice and responsive. Looks good on the BLE. I wish campy would come out with a high end alloy group. Black has worn out its welcome.

[justinf]

So if you had to do it again, would you buy the UT or square taper? I'm trying to decide between the two. They're surprisingly close in price and weight once you add in the BB. Have you had any durability problems with the UT?

nah, i would choose based on the look you're going for. I think they are both fine, and minimally different as far as function.

[jhcakilmer]

I understand your hesitation, and taking my word with a grain of salt, but I guess you'll just have to trust me on this one......it's definitely stiffer, no question.

I guess the question is, of what benefit does this add, if any at all?

I'm a big guy, and I produces quite a bit a power (maybe not enough.... but that's besides the point), so any flex, or lack there of, is very evident......whether it was last week, last year,etc.

I've put a lot of miles on square taper BB/crankset, ISIS, and I must admit very few on the new DA......But they definitely all have there own unique characteristics.

The external bearings, and oversized axle are definitely purposeful, but is it useful? I would say yes, but that's just my oppinion.

No bike component is going to make a couch potato into a world champion, but if we break it down to the most basic elements, we see differences that are easily recognizable.

I'm all for quatitiative testing, but I don't have the time or the money, so sorry. Like I said just take my word for it!!




Jason

I hate to be cynical myself...

I'm wondering how you can compare your UT to your Square Taper Record that you rode 8 months ago and your DA that we put on your bike 3.5 years ago...

That is however a great deal on your UT crankset, good find bro...

[JohnS]

All you posters who can flex cranksets have missed your calling. You should be in the pro peloton. With your strength, you can pass up "domestique" and move directly to "star". With Basso and everyone else's problems, there will be plenty of openings... :p

[Grant McLean]

I wish campy would come out with a high end alloy group. Black has worn out its welcome.

Plenty of '06 silver alloy record stuff out there.
I just bought a lifetime supply of silver record square cranks for $104 a set.
That's 30% cheaper than buying 2 rings, and the arms were free :)

g

[shanerpvt]

Plenty of '06 silver alloy record stuff out there.
I just bought a lifetime supply of silver record square cranks for $104 a set.
That's 30% cheaper than buying 2 rings, and the arms were free :)

g

how many is a life time supply?

[Ray]

I'm not a powerful rider and I'd been using all manner of square taper and Octalink BB systems over the years and never felt a difference. Last year I stuck one of the new Shimano compact cranks with outboard bearings on my main bike and I believe I felt a pretty immediate difference in stiffness. Not good or bad, not faster or slower, but I just felt less play in the system when I'd get out of the saddle and really pound on a steep hill. I wouldn't buy it because of that, but I definitely felt SOMETHING different.

I don't know if this is the outboard bearings or the Shimano crank specifically, but it sounds from others comments like it might just be Shimano's design.

-Ray

[stevep]

i thk you can generate a decent amount of flex w/ a sq taper crank.
climbing in big ring ... you can pretty easily get the chainring to rub the fd.
w/ an oversize newer style bb it is much harder or impossible to get this rub.

no argument that it matters... just a comment.

[bigbill]

Plenty of '06 silver alloy record stuff out there.
I just bought a lifetime supply of silver record square cranks for $104 a set.
That's 30% cheaper than buying 2 rings, and the arms were free :)

g

I was thinking along the lines of an entire alloy groupo. IMHO, a classic frame with some chrome looks better with alloy components. My commuter has alloy chorus that is pretty beat up, but I will rebuild the levers this summer and convert them to 10 speed. For now, unless I can find some NOS 2003 chorus, I am stuck with carbon levers.

IMO, the Record alloy was the nicest looking alloy crankset. I still have another set that is almost new. I am saving it for my MX Leader when I build it up next year.

[bostondrunk]

I found that the UT stuff was easier to work on (ie. easier to install and remove) than the square taper stuff.
But in the end, I'd just buy whichever you think looks better. Neither design is gonna make you win a race that you otherwise would have lost..

[Bob Ross]

Im a bigger guy , 169 lbs


See, this is why I hate reading cycling forums!


(sez Bob, who at his current 180lbs is at the lowest weight he's been in 20 years)

[dirtdigger88]

See, this is why I hate reading cycling forums!


(sez Bob, who at his current 180lbs is at the lowest weight he's been in 20 years)

I almost spit my coffee out when I read that post earlier-

ok- come on campy guys . . . you finally have a crank almost as good as a shimano- just run with it-

Jason

[saab2000]

This got blown out of proportion. I am totally aware that square taper cranks are fine. I guess I was just wondering if the new ones FELT any different. Not even stiffer. My friend who has them says he can feel a difference, but even he won't say that they feel 'better'.

Anyway, they are not in the budget for now.

BTW, he also liked the ultra simple installation.

[Jeff N.]

My bank account feels the difference, thats for certain. Jeff N.

[pdxmech13]

no real discernible difference other than looks.
i would feel kinda stupid with a coat hanger thingy
holdin my bearing in place........what ever happened to a little class.

[Grant McLean]

i would feel kinda stupid with a coat hanger thingy
holdin my bearing in place........what ever happened to a little class.

that's funny. :)

The coat hanger doesn't actually hold the bearing.
It's only there so that if the torque bolt that holds the axle together
falls out, the right arm stays in the frame.

g

[Darrell]

I'm confused as to how anyone can literally detect flex differences in a crankset...

They can not!
They are just fools believing what they are told.
Or the thought police will get em!

[bostondrunk]

thats why ulrich kept losing the tour, his crappy record alloy crank flexed way too much. poor fella.

[jbrainin]

My Record 07 UT cranks don't feel any stiffer to me but they do feel smoother when compared to the Record 06 carbon cranks on my other bike. Is this perceived difference real? I think so but that's just one sample.

Jonathan

[justinf]

The coat hanger doesn't actually hold the bearing. It's only there so that if the torque bolt that holds the axle together

That's comforting. A couple more rides recently and my bolt might HAVE fallen out.

[saab2000]

My Record 07 UT cranks don't feel any stiffer to me but they do feel smoother when compared to the Record 06 carbon cranks on my other bike. Is this perceived difference real? I think so but that's just one sample.

Jonathan

Hmmm.... That's the kind of answer I was looking for. I have 05 Record carbons on my Look and regular aluminum ones on my other bikes. Granted, they are other bikes and so it is not a fair comparison, but I don't feel any difference either between the aluminum and carbon ones.

Well, eventually I will succumb to the 'need' for the new Record Ultra Torque cranks. Cuz I like them! :beer:

[pdxmech13]

The coat hanger allows the bearing too "float" inside the cup.
It has no bearing :D on securing the assembly.

[JF636]

Hmmm.... That's the kind of answer I was looking for. I have 05 Record carbons on my Look and regular aluminum ones on my other bikes. Granted, they are other bikes and so it is not a fair comparison, but I don't feel any difference either between the aluminum and carbon ones.

Well, eventually I will succumb to the 'need' for the new Record Ultra Torque cranks. Cuz I like them! :beer:


Saab, I just replaced my old Chorus Al with a Chorus carbon (square taper) w/BB and haven't noticed any differences either. I wonder, if people are changing cranks, they are usually changing BBs, chains and even cassettes and the combination of newer drive parts are what they may be feeling.

I would think that the tires, wheels, pedal spindles, etc would deflect more than the crank arms....but who knows.

I went through the decision of going with the UT system or sticking with the square taper. The only thing that worried me on the UT was potential bearing problems. It seems to have plagued other similar systems, though maybe Campy got it sorted. I would like to give it some more time to see if any problems arise...otherwise I think it is a slick set up. ;)

[Jack Brunk]

My Record 07 UT cranks don't feel any stiffer to me but they do feel smoother when compared to the Record 06 carbon cranks on my other bike. Is this perceived difference real? I think so but that's just one sample.

Jonathan
Jonathan is correct. The UT's spin easier/smoother. I can't flex either one so that's not an issue.

[Grant McLean]

The coat hanger allows the bearing too "float" inside the cup.


Maybe we're just talking about different things.
The wavy washer takes care of pre-load, the
bearings are attached to the arms in the cranks i've played with.

In the event that the main bolt it's torqued properly,
The "retaining clip" coat hanger dealie is a back up
system, it's there to prevent this:

Note how the right crank is out of the frame, and wrapped
up in the chain.

g