P3 Crit Bike

[Fat Robert]

some wack jobs over on another forum are swearing up and down that a P3 with drop bars is a great crit bike.


discuss. best snide, funny mockery wins a part I've been trying to get rid of (TBA).

[AgilisMerlin]

post the link, please.

[Fat Robert]

biketechreview.com forum...its been in a few posts here and there


maybe I'm the wack job, but that geo, drop bars, and crit corners seems like a recipe for a snapped clavicle to me.

[chrisroph]

Its whacked, you'd have to be nuts to ride one of those things in a crit.

In a 56, 75 sta, 72.5 hta 62.6 fc, not a recipe for cornering but good for riding the rivet with geek bars and going mostly straight.

[bigbill]

There is a guy out here in Oahu riding a P2C with drop bars. I came up behind him on sunday approaching Diamond Head from the East. I couldn't figure out what he was riding until I passed him. No clip-ons, just standard drop bars. Didn't look like he was enjoying the climb much, probably hard to get leverage on the pedals with that STA. That and the fact I passed him on a climb says it all.

[saab2000]

You have got to be kidding me!?! I was unsure what a P3 was but when I found out I couldn't believe there are crackpots trying to race that thing in mass-start races?

I never really have been able to figure out what people mean by 'crit bike' or 'road racing bike' or 'stage racing bike'. I know I am a bit naive and all, but to me the important thing in racing of any sort is efficiency and stability. After proper position for balance, etc.

But a bike race is ultimately a bike race. What do they say makes it a good crit bike? aero tubes? Like that helps at cat 5 speeds in the middle of a 50-man pack! Right! Pedalling clearance? Some guys can pedal through corners better than others, but the bottom line is that you don't really miss many pedal strokes by not. You can pedal deep into a corner and immediately after a corner and not worry about scraping a pedal.

Anyway. The king of criteriums, Davis Phinney would have some interesting thoughts on what makes a good crit bike I suppose. I wonder what he liked. Something tells me not a P3.

[obtuse]

don't be so quick to mock. with the seat in the right place and the wheel all the way back in the drop out the thing's geometry is really not all that different from
petacchi's extreme power. it looks really stupid but that's about the only issue one would have if the headtube length worked.

i know alot of guys using the thing on the boards too.

obtuse

[William]

Ryan:
"Can you launch an ICBM sideways?

Skip:
"Sure, why would you want to?"

http://www.cervelo.com/models/thumbnail/p3carbon%20track.png

Looks MP.

But hey, if people can race Soft Rides in a crit, I could see someone pulling off riding this rig. Might hurt, but it could be done.



William

[Too Tall]

You can race d@mn near anything that's buttoned up tight but I get your point bro. Certainly are better options. I'd buy that line of reasoning if the rider could afford or needed "just one bike" because I've seen folks do this. Use that frame for track racing, crit/rr and TT's. Custom jig'd zipp disk axel was the tricky part.

[Fat Robert]

break it down for me, obtuse, because I just don't see it


say i took a 58 P3 -- which would give me the right reach to the aerobars, witha 110 stem, in the 78 degree position

now I put a Turbo on it, move it back to the 75 degree position, and now I'm running a 100 stem to get the reach right. seems wack to me.... the only way I'd get any weight on the front would be to run the thing with the 78 effective sta and a 120 stem. maybe fine on the boards, but 90-degree corners in a fast masters' field?

me not grasping something?

[obtuse]

break it down for me, obtuse, because I just don't see it


say i took a 58 P3 -- which would give me the right reach to the aerobars, witha 110 stem, in the 78 degree position

now I put a Turbo on it, move it back to the 75 degree position, and now I'm running a 100 stem to get the reach right. seems wack to me.... the only way I'd get any weight on the front would be to run the thing with the 78 effective sta and a 120 stem. maybe fine on the boards, but 90-degree corners in a fast masters' field?

me not grasping something?


you wouldn't ride the 58. you'd ride the 54 and use the old seat post getting a virtual 73degree 20minutes degree seat angle and round abouuts a 58,3 top tube- the question is could you handle the 105mm head tube?

obtuse

[Fat Robert]

you wouldn't ride the 58. you'd ride the 54 and use the old seat post getting a virtual 73degree 20minutes degree seat angle and round abouuts a 58,3 top tube- the question is could you handle the 105mm head tube?

obtuse

that's what I thought

here's the rub:

these cats are talking about taking their normal TT bikes and just throwing drop bars on 'em. so, I'd be on the 58 with the 100 stem....yikes.

[obtuse]

that's what I thought

here's the rub:

these cats are talking about taking their normal TT bikes and just throwing drop bars on 'em. so, I'd be on the 58 with the 100 stem....yikes.


that's dumb. but then again zabriskie is on a 54cm p3; and i think cancellera is too and i know they both ride 58cm r3s/slcs.

obtuse

[Fat Robert]

that's dumb. but then again zabriskie is on a 54cm p3; and i think cancellera is too and i know they both ride 58cm r3s/slcs.

obtuse

no wonder those guys are so low


but how many weekend warriors ahve the core strength and felxibility to ride a TT position with that low of a front end? how many 58 road bike guys are riding 54 P3?

[obtuse]

no wonder those guys are so low


but how many weekend warriors ahve the core strength and felxibility to ride a TT position with that low of a front end? how many 58 road bike guys are riding 54 P3?


me.

[nm87710]

but how many weekend warriors ahve the core strength and felxibility to ride a TT position with that low of a front end?

Don't know bout weekend warriors but I've raced againts some of the BTR cats using TT frames in crits and they aren't weekend warriors...just skunk works P12's pushing the envelope looking for that little something extra to make a difference. No different than wearing shoe covers and a skinsuit in a crit or riding 808's.

If you do what everyone else does then you will be just like everyone else - average(at best).

[zap]

no wonder those guys are so low


but how many weekend warriors ahve the core strength and felxibility to ride a TT position with that low of a front end? how many 58 road bike guys are riding 54 P3?

Several. But maybe one wouldn't consider them weekend warriors. This one fellow I ride with quite a bit uses his P3 with drop bars all the time. He had other bikes but sold them as he prefers the P3 for all his riding. This fellow is fast on twisty descents and pretty quick on the flats and climbs.

I'd like to try a 54. It's the only production frame out there with a long enough effective tt so I wouldn't have to resort to some wacky long custom stem.

[Fat Robert]

Don't know bout weekend warriors but I've raced againts some of the BTR cats using TT frames in crits and they aren't weekend warriors...just skunk works P12's pushing the envelope looking for that little something extra to make a difference. No different than wearing shoe covers and a skinsuit in a crit or riding 808's.

If you do what everyone else does then you will be just like everyone else - average(at best).


i can see that -- a couple of the guys over there talking about running P3s as crit bikes are 3s and 4's...with "larger" TT bikes (i.e., a 58 TT bike if you ride a 58 road bike).

if, as obtuse said, if the guy is developed enough to ride an "agressive" TT bike (Low front end, longer stem...the 54 P3 with the six-foot rider example) then yeah, its fine, pushin the envelope. I'm just sayin if you're a Cat 3-4 Johnny (like me) and you just slap some drop bars on a TT bike as your new secret weapon...yikes.

[Fat Robert]

Several. But maybe one wouldn't consider them weekend warriors. This one fellow I ride with quite a bit uses his P3 with drop bars all the time. He had other bikes but sold them as he prefers the P3 for all his riding. This fellow is fast on twisty descents and pretty quick on the flats and climbs.

I'd like to try a 54. It's the only production frame out there with a long enough effective tt so I wouldn't have to resort to some wacky long custom stem.


I'd lose a cm of saddle setback, but I could make that 54 work with a 120 stem...that front end is scary low, though...I'd need 40mm of spacer and a +6...to get 12.5cm of drop...

the front end would be the deal breaker -- if the guy is running a larger TT frame to get the bars up, then the weight distribution is wack. Sounds like this would work best for smaller riders, since the HT loss is proportionally less...as if those little pukes needed more advantages....

[zap]

The fellow I'm referring to is smaller. Don't know what size frame he's riding, but he's got what looks like at least 12 cm bar drop. He's got the ram kit sitting on or awefully close to the headset.

Long arms.

Right about little fellows. tt thinks the same of us. :rolleyes:

Me, like I said, I'd like to try it even though it's a Cervelo. Far from a priority, but it would be neat to compare it to my 'blade.