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Andreu
06-07-2004, 04:43 AM
.....having loads of bikes? Do you have limits to the number in your collection. (at 4000k dollars per bike and, say, 8 bikes...thats a tidy sum of money too!).
For the guys who "collect" bikes...do you collect for collecting sake or do you ride them. I am intrigued to know how you select bikes for your rides and collections. Its quite easy for me....I have two bikes....when the weather is crap I ride the winter set-up bike and when it shines the race bike. I have seen at least two more frames I think I would like (and I love just looking at them, almost like works of art!) ....but how the hell am I going to decide which one to ride?
Am I turning into a collector?
A

Bill Bove
06-07-2004, 07:01 AM
"He who dies with the most toys, wins"?

I don't really collect bikes, I accumulate them. That is to say that when I replace a bike, I don't sell the old one. I think they're worth more to me in memories and as a spare than cash. That said, I have sold a couple of my old bikes and almost regret not having them around but I sold them because they didn't fit well and replaced them with ones that did.

Now I have four Serotta's a Legend Ti that is my #1 bike, two Colorado Al's,one is my racing, fast ride bike, the other was bought and fixed up as loaner for a friend who visits often so she wouldn't have to schlepp her own with her, but the size was advertised incorrectly and it turned out to be my size and the restoration got out of hand so it's kind of a back up to the back up. The last is an old Nova Special X that is just too beautiful to part with.

I am thinking of replacing one of the Als with a Fierte' just to be more modern but it's not a priority.

Oh no! Climbo I need your help! I just bought a LeMond on ebay. Like I really need it, but the price was right. I have a pair of Campy Delta's looking for a home, I think they've found it. Probably build it up with Centuar parts with downtube shifters to keep it semi-period.

dnovo
06-07-2004, 07:19 AM
It is difficult to articulate the 'why' of any passion, bikes, paintings, rare coins, vintage cameras, and (yes some do collect them) even beer cans and caps. Passion is sometimes just that, an urge to acquire that cannot be strictly rationalized.

I collect vintage lightweights and have 'acquired' a stable of the more modern (although I am slowing down on the latter as I sell off the aluminum rides that I like for the steel that I adore.) The former are easy to explain, rolling art in many cases, beautiful, and a vanishing breed. The latter, well sometimes the urge just gets to you and, like Bill, it is difficult to part with them later, although I have been doing so more and more lately. (Some though I keep as they are unique in their own right, such as the Land Sharks, all individually-painted rolling works expressing their creator's artistic talents. Doubt if these will ever be sold off.)

Do I ride them all? Yes, with the exception of the truely unique such as my pre-WWII Schwinn Paramount Track bike, perfectly restored with its wood rims. Too pretty and too much work to ever try to re-restore to its pristine condition, and the thought of damaging those wood rims is too much to contemplate. I ride each at least once every year or so.

The answer? I'm nuts, but it is a mental illness shared by many others in this hobby/sport and elsewhere. Dave N.

dbrk
06-07-2004, 08:31 AM
I can tell you how it happened to me...I was reared on the versatility notion, that you could use one bike for lots of endeavors. Heck, as a kid you simply rode your bike wherever you needed to go. I was thrown out of the house on a summer day and told to go entertain myself at the park or the ballfield. How times have changed...and not for the better in those ways. I still love this idea and, to some extent, practice it. But one-bike-fits-the-purpose is true only to a point. Or it is true and there are more ways than one to have great fun. Fixie? Audax? All night riding? Trails? Mud? Pave-style roads? Friction? Clicking? Why limit yourself? I love cycling too much. There are only two bikes I don't ride: my retired Mondia which just never seems to go out and my 1961 or so Rene Herse 650B because if I broke that Cyclo rear derailleur it would take a year and a small fortune to replace it. Japanese collectors have made certain old French bike parts reason to believe that my children will have a few assets on their hands when they scatter my ashes in the backyard...

A good road racer style rarely makes even an adequate cyclotourer or railroad beds trail rippin' rider. It was passion for the tool that got me started on multiple rides: the right tool for the job meant that the job was more fun. More like having a selection of wrenches, pliers, hammers, and screw-drivers, not just a collection of hammers or, to put it another way, just one wrench for all wrenching. Then, there are the variations in ride that occur within a particular style of bike depending on the material, parts, geometry, and fit. Friction bikes are entirely different than indexers. I like both. I am promiscuous as well in my notions of fit: I like different fits and differences in geometry that make each bike work well for me. Some may adhere to a one fit notion but I'm much happier with different fits and styles and geometries---each one producing something optimal and each a very different experience.

But even "identical" bikes ride very differently if you set them up differently enough: I have two identical Rivendells but for the paint (well, one has short reach and the other normal reach brakes but in every other respect they are a complete design match). But with different parts set ups they are as different as night and day. Then there is the passion of aesthetics and of variety. Some bikes I just love the way you fall in love---sometimes it lasts, sometimes it's a mere fling, but it's all cheaper and safer than, say, sex. Krsna has gopis, I have bikes; my wife _never_ utters a word about my passion since she views it as part of me, not just a hobby. I deal in very few personal interests: Sanskrit, bicycles, bicycles, Sanskrit. I was this way long before we met. Does she think she married someone else? I don't love the bikes more than her but I did love the bikes before her; so this passion, like the rest of me, comes with the package. As for cost, we spend what we can afford and there is more to it than that?

Last and this may strike you as oh what pitiful stuff but some of my bikes offer an historical or personal connection. I've gone to the trouble to seek out the bike, try to meet the builder or learn about him (or the company either historically or in friendships), and I own the bike to honor that relationship and the great craft I associate with it. It's not brand identification but something far more personal to me. I don't do this with anything else (except old books) though I do know I have a sense of "brand preference" with everything from shampoo (Kiels) to cameras (Leica). Bikes aren't brand preferences, however, they are nearly all connections with something that speaks more deeply to me.

We like what we like. It's really not harder than that. I have no philosophical objections to acquistion nor do I believe in the slightest that absention or minimalization is somehow morally superior. Many or Few or One as an aesthetic or philosophic choice is simply a preference, not a matter of better or worse. I have enough time to think about what I like but not enough to worry or to criticize others for what they like---all within some parameters of reason, no? Life is not a penance or a trial but something to love as sweetly as suits you (with all the usual ethical caveats about thefamilythefamily, the childrenthechildrenthechildren, and all the matters of moral conscience including whatever you count as your own personal savetheworld-whales-trees-retirement, etc.) Otherwise, go for it, whatever you think "it" is.

dbrk

Andreu
06-07-2004, 09:11 AM
Last and this may strike you as oh what pitiful stuff but some of my bikes offer an historical or personal connection. I've gone to the trouble to seek out the bike, try to meet the builder or learn about him (or the company either historically or in friendships), and I own the bike to honor that relationship and the great craft I associate with it. It's not brand identification but something far more personal to me. I don't do this with anything else (except old books) though I do know I have a sense of "brand preference" with everything from shampoo (Kiels) to cameras (Leica). Bikes aren't brand preferences, however, they are nearly all connections with something that speaks more deeply to me.
dbrk
Pitiful - Not at all.
This is interesting, as the bikes I have do have a history and do have a personal connection (not a very long history I hasten to add but a deep personal connection) and this seems to me to be as good a reason as any to maintain/add to any collection anybody might have.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
A

caffeine power
06-07-2004, 01:04 PM
I've had many bikes for a variety of reasons... the most common reason is lack of willpower. Saturday I had a coworker stop by my house to have her husband's bike looked at 'cause it had been a few years since he'd ridden it. Her comment when I opened the garage was "wow, that's a lot of bikes" There were 8. My Schwinn Prologue, Serotta, Seven, Canondale, Raleigh, my wife's Bridgestone & Appel and a friend's Trek...and my daughter's Trek would make 9....plus the trailer. Anyway, I still have a Vitus I keep in Seattle with my wife's Fisher at the father-in-law's. Plus the Mongoose Team (BMX) I bought in 1977.

In the last 10 years I've sold or given away a Diamond Back Axis Team, Mongoose Tomac, Centurion Carbon (crap bike), Triumph 531 (really a Raleigh from Knottingham :D ), Panasonic Custom (prestige tubed), Panasonic track bike, Lotus, and a half dozen or so BMX bikes. At one time I had them showhorned into a one bedroom apartment.

Why so many bikes? Lack of willpower. Ooooh, shiney bike, must buy...oh wait, rent's due...ahh, I just won't eat this month.

I still have way too many wheels hanging in the basement. :crap: or at least that's what the wife thinks.

I miss some of the bikes at times but I have the memories, pictures and scars from each of them.

And I still look longingly at new bikes when I visit a shop. :banana:

Ken Robb
06-07-2004, 01:43 PM
I used to think one bike was plenty and it was a 1989 Bridgestone MB3.
Then I tried a road bike and felt like I got out of an SUV and into an M3. Bought a Trek 2000 and soon leaned to hate it.
Fast forward to my Rambouillet w/27spd Ultegra--darn near perfect. Who could want more?
FF to Marin Rift Zone FS bike for those off-road excursions. Now I really am set.
Gee that's a good deal on the 58cm CSi and I think it will be a dandy Valentine's Day present for Leslie. If I'm feeling racy I can ride it too. What more could there be?
Gee sometimes it's fun to have a bike that you can take on trips that will be ready for almost anything and that Rivendell Allrounder is sure neat.
I REALLY don'tNEED another bike but that 1981 Stelvio w/Nuovo Record and a $500 Joe Bell paint job needs to be loved and displayed because it's so pretty. Much to my surprise it is as delightful to ride as my newer bikes and it really stands out in a crowd.
I won't recite the bikes that I bought and discarded over the past few years. But these are all "keepers". As someone else said they are worth more to me than they would be to anyone else. I spent more on major overhaul on the MB3 a couple of years ago than it was "worth" but it'sfun to ride and full of memories.
The moment of truth when I commit to "the bike of the day" is at the bottom of the steps to the garage. That's where the "specialized" shoe rack is. Hiking, motorcycle,running, mtn. bike, road bike, race bike shoes live there. If I blow on by to the garage it has to be one of the bikes with touring pedals. If it was a trip to the store I wouldalready know the MB3 with rack and grocery pannier would be it. If it's a fun sporty ride it might be the Stelvio provided there won't be any steep hills for which I need a lower gear than I can get with a 53-42 set-up. If I really don't know what I'll get myself into I toss snacks,vest, arm/leg warmers,gloves into the Carradice Cadet bag on the Allrounder and head off into the undecided if arely "unknown". It'seven got a Schmidt Dynohub and lights so if I don't get home before dark it doesn't matter. If I spent this much time writing real estate contracts I would be rich!! And just to prove I'm not quite done: I have a new Riv on order and would probablyjump on a 60-61 Serotta if the deal was right.

Russell
06-07-2004, 03:36 PM
"He who dies with the most toys..." is still dead

vaxn8r
06-07-2004, 04:42 PM
It was passion for the tool that got me started on multiple rides: the right tool for the job meant that the job was more fun. More like having a selection of wrenches, pliers, hammers, and screw-drivers, not just a collection of hammers or, to put it another way, just one wrench for all wrenching. dbrk


DBRK, you "nailed" me, sadly. I have a big collection of hammers. The only differences is what era they were made in. My LBS guru chides me to this day for having to many "hammers" and no "wrenches" or "pliers".

Nice post. Well put.

froze
06-07-2004, 04:50 PM
He who dies with the most toys wins? Sorry, thats a wrong statement because when you die you don't get to take your toys with you, so you actually lose because you could have used that money spent on toys to help others.

Anyway, I don't begrudge someone who wants to buy bicycles for a collection or whatever. It's their money and they can buy whatever they want and however many they want. However, buying todays modern bike is not an investment because you will lose money on depreciation like a car. So you have to go into something like that knowing that your not doing it to make money.

Personally I have one road bike that is 20 years old, and one mountain bike that is 15 years old. I use to have a touring bike but it sat outside for years and was exposed to rain and salt water, and after 28 years I junked it last January when I moved. I want to get a newer road bike someday as well as a touring bike again, and an old (70's) classic Italin steel bike just to dink with; and that would be the extent of my "collection".

Climb01742
06-07-2004, 05:22 PM
i think bikes are beautiful. i like experiencing the different ways each frame rides. i am not mature enough to say i have enough. i have a boyish love of toys. different bikes teach me different things about bikes. most fortunately, because i can meet my obligations and have some left over for fun.

SPOKE
06-07-2004, 05:55 PM
i tend to be attracted to the bikes/frames/components that were/are technology leaps or just innoviative. it also helps if they weren't produced in huge quantities. i like them a little rare. funny thing too is i tend to like multiples of some of them just so i can have one that is very clean and one that i don't mind riding on a more regular basis. since i became interested in cycling back in 81' the bikes of that era that i couldn't afford or know about are the ones that i seem to be adding to my collection. at this time my interest is really in the road racing bikes i haven't every ventured into the touring style bikes........maybe some day i'll find a chrome Rene Herse that quickly breaks apart for packing :rolleyes: .
in response to comments from Froze about taking the toys with me when i die: i told my parents to just get an extra wide burial plot for me. when i pass my motorcycles and bicycles can be dumped in the hole with me. who knows, i just might get unearthed as part of some archiological (sp) dig and they'll think i was some kind of king or prince...............most likely some unlucky fool that died in a salvage yard :rolleyes:

dave thompson
06-07-2004, 06:03 PM
I often say, flippantly, the there is no such thing as too much money, a diamond that's too big or too many bikes. Truth be told that I'm fascinated with things that a human has actually thought about, planned, constructed, and built. A bicycle is one of the most personal items (be they stock or custom) that we encounter on a regular basis, and each bicycle has it's own little personality.

I've related this before, but I have an upstairs family room that is our 'bicycle' room, where I work on the bikes and they are kept for ready use. This room is also the path from our bedroom areas to the kitchen. Often when I pass through this room at night, I find myself letting my hand brush a top tube as I walk by. I know that it's strange, but I really like my bikes.

coylifut
06-07-2004, 06:59 PM
I wish I was less practical. I have one race bike, one rain bike, one cross bike, one mountain bike and one track bike. This year, I bought a new race bike and was fully intending on keeping the old. However, I soon realized Iíd never use it and I sold it. The person who bought it got a great deal and is now riding it on a daily basis. My race bike is top shelf while the rest of them are adequate tools so that I may participate in areas of the sport that I take a less serious interest. I do feel that bikes are far more than the utilitarian tool that I assign them and are indeed art. I love looking at pictures of other peoples bikes, be they modern or vintage; especially track bikes. Itís amazing how many people can benefit from someone elseís collection of art.

Jeff N.
06-07-2004, 10:41 PM
It is difficult to articulate the 'why' of any passion, bikes, paintings, rare coins, vintage cameras, and (yes some do collect them) even beer cans and caps. Passion is sometimes just that, an urge to acquire that cannot be strictly rationalized.

I collect vintage lightweights and have 'acquired' a stable of the more modern (although I am slowing down on the latter as I sell off the aluminum rides that I like for the steel that I adore.) The former are easy to explain, rolling art in many cases, beautiful, and a vanishing breed. The latter, well sometimes the urge just gets to you and, like Bill, it is difficult to part with them later, although I have been doing so more and more lately. (Some though I keep as they are unique in their own right, such as the Land Sharks, all individually-painted rolling works expressing their creator's artistic talents. Doubt if these will ever be sold off.)

Do I ride them all? Yes, with the exception of the truely unique such as my pre-WWII Schwinn Paramount Track bike, perfectly restored with its wood rims. Too pretty and too much work to ever try to re-restore to its pristine condition, and the thought of damaging those wood rims is too much to contemplate. I ride each at least once every year or so.

The answer? I'm nuts, but it is a mental illness shared by many others in this hobby/sport and elsewhere. Dave N.Thats right. Cameras, guns, zippo lighters,Bikes....I'm as nuts as they come when it comes to this sort of thing.I ride all my bikes and enjoys each ones unique personality.Its just a thing where I gotta have one of each. I'm fortunate that I'm in a position where I don't have to let indecision get the best of me. Jeff N.

M_A_Martin
06-07-2004, 11:05 PM
They just follow me home...I have absolutly nothing to do with it!

dave thompson
06-07-2004, 11:28 PM
Don't bikes always follow great women? Sort of like puppy dogs and men.

dirtdigger88
06-08-2004, 10:42 AM
Two wheelers are just cool :cool: I figure there is minimal resale value to most bikes out there so why sell them. A bike I paid 1500 for two years ago is maybe worth what 500 if I am lucky... why sell. I just hang them up in the basement and ride them once in a while. My collection is really just the result of years of riding. A BMX bike from the days of old, a hard tail MTB, a full suspension MTB, old steel road bike, newer steel road bike, brand new ti road bike. The toys stay the same, they just keep costing more. Hey I could sit at a bar and spend my money. That is what I tell my wife

Jason

djg
06-08-2004, 10:58 AM
I have two nice road bikes, one of which is somewhat weakly justified by the title of "commuter bike" (it's a CSi with Chorus 10 speed). Also a very basic mtb. More than I need to be a cyclist, but quite a few less than a collection.

I definitely feel the acquisitive pull now and again but, by and large, I avoid it. It's not that I'm broke and it's not that a new ride wouldn't be fun--it's just that I don't think that yet an extra ride would be all that much fun for very long. Diminishing marginal utility and all that.

At the same time, I trust that the collectors and the "stable" builders out there are getting enjoyment out of their additional rides and I don't see why that's not enough. Frankly, I wouldn't mind getting a fixie myself. If I had more free time I might get into cross riding a bit and I'd probably want a cross bike for that purpose. More free time still and I might start racing again, for which I might want something trashable (given some of the local riding I've seen) and maybe a tt bike to boot. It's pretty easy to see how the pile could grow to five or six bikes without thinking about collectibles at all. And as for collections: building collections (of bikes or other stuff) is not really an interest of mine, but I don't see what's wrong with it. Bikes are cool machines. We shouldn't all collect them, but somebody should.

PhatMatt
06-08-2004, 12:13 PM
I have a new Riv on order and would probablyjump on a 60-61 Serotta if the deal was right.

Hey Ken...uh, I have a CSI 61x61 that I am interested in selling. When you said you'd jump what was the right deal you had in mind? Let me know if you are interested and we can talk prices!

Thanks!

Andreu
06-08-2004, 03:51 PM
"We shouldn't all collect them, but somebody should."
I'd second that...I am not big on collecting but their is a history that needs
to be maintained.
Out of interest (if anybody is still reading this thread) is there a cycle frame equivilent to the Penny Black or a Ferrari 250 GTO.
Since I am not collecting I can let you know if I see one ;)
A