If only Boonen rode Serotta

[zeroking17]

Apropos of the discussion about Boonen's Specialized, see today's insightful "Cage Match" entry in the Belgium Knee Warmers (http://belgiumkneewarmers.blogspot.com/index.html) blog.

The blogger disses Special Ed (along with the other big money US frame manufacturers who've recently gotten in sponsoring Div 1 pro teams), and praises Serotta's exemplary involvement with the 7-11 squad. There's also a Richard Sachs mention.

(Thanks to jthurow for mentioning this blog a few days ago. It's tremendously interesting!)

[pdxmech13]

I'm surpised most people care what the pro's ride for frames in general.
Its like knowing what brand really matters to how you or I would ride a bike.

[saab2000]

People only care when it becomes obvious that the bikes are a problem. That is the whole point. Normally everyone just says, 'the bike doesn't matter'. But when it does matter then people get interested.

Trek has now been in for about 10 years. I have no doubt that their product improved because of racing at that level. Cannondale too have some history.

I am a bit curious about the Specialized brouhaha because this is not their first ever team. Last year they sponsored Gerolsteiner and nobody made a stink about it. Frankly, I think it's been blown out of proportion. I have no idea what Boonen needs or wants, but now he is getting custom bikes and this should just die away.

Sean Kelly used to win on Vitus frames.

[AgilisMerlin]

Sponsorship is about image and projection, and maybe a little slice of investment loss/sponsorship written off against product sold/gain on their end of fiscal year taxes. just kidding. :D


it baffles me why they are not focusing on boonen, his bike, his custom build, and their eventual media response on the frame and how it was built. Their PR team is non existant on this subject - as if - what is ignored does not exist.

maybe Tom, really does dislike the carbon frame. maybe he does call the shots.


yes he would enjoy a Serotta.

[benb]

It seems way too blown out of proportion. Boonen is just too far outside of the meat of the bell curve to fit many stock frames. Anyone his height is going to have problems and the bike companies probably can't really afford to build & design too many stock frames to fit people that tall. I've had some trouble and I'm an inch or so shorter then Boonen.

He could have easily had the same problem if he'd gone to ride on a Trek or a Cervelo or anything.

People keep saying it wasn't a problem when he rode Time but that is ignoring the back injury he supposedly got last year that changed his fit requirements.

In my case either being somewhat out of shape and/or getting older and/or a couple of crashes have made my ability to tolerate a drop to the bars seemingly go down. I used to be fine with a 3" drop to the bars, now I can't tolerate more then 2", and it's making my search for a new bike quite a bit harder at the moment. (Still guessing if I get back down to race weight I'd be OK with 3" again.)

The Belgium Knee warmers has an obvious bias to push people away from Carbon bikes so everything he says is suspect. He wants to push as many people onto easily made steel frames and then charge mega bucks for them since he is personally involved. Hard to tell from the profile but it sure sounds like he is directly involved in making steel custom frames.

[Avispa]

....The blogger disses Special Ed (along with the other big money US frame manufacturers who've recently gotten in sponsoring Div 1 pro teams), and praises Serotta's exemplary involvement with the 7-11 squad. There's also a Richard Sachs mention....

The funny thing is that 7-11's greatest achievement as a bike team was when Andy won the '88 Giro.

And it wasn't on a Serotta! ;) I really miss the days when riders just put decals of a make or model on their bike and just rode whatever the hell they needed or wanted. It was a fun game to find what bike they were actually riding...

[Vancouverdave]

The funny thing is that 7-11's greatest achievement as a bike team was when Andy won the '88 Giro.

And it wasn't on a Serotta! ;) I really miss the days when riders just put decals of a make or model on their bike and just rode whatever the hell they needed or wanted. It was a fun game to find what bike were they actually riding...
And Landshark (builder of Hampsten's Giro bike) has never tried to make any hay out of that one. Just imagine if he'd ridden a Trek in that stage race.................

[grey poupon]

...

[obtuse]

Apropos of the discussion about Boonen's Specialized, see today's insightful "Cage Match" entry in the Belgium Knee Warmers (http://belgiumkneewarmers.blogspot.com/index.html) blog.

The blogger disses Special Ed (along with the other big money US frame manufacturers who've recently gotten in sponsoring Div 1 pro teams), and praises Serotta's exemplary involvement with the 7-11 squad. There's also a Richard Sachs mention.

(Thanks to jthurow for mentioning this blog a few days ago. It's tremendously interesting!)


nice lay-out, nice pictures etc. etc and i'm glad someone is talking about this stuff i just wish it wasn't someone as clueless. there are so many wrong conclusions, errors and lack of knowledge about frame geometry and proper bike design in that blog that the author makes the product managers at specialized look like ugo de rosa.

boonen doesn't need a top tube over sixty centemeters. he was on a stock 58cm and his issue was never position; it was handling and weight balance. how can this guy really think that the quick step mechanics couldn't get the position right?

as an aside- in general given all the other numbers no one needs a top tube over 60cms long; all bikes will handle like shi'ite with the resulting front centers...there's a narrow range of possible geometries with which a bicycle can still handle properly.....but i digress.

i really wish there was insightful commentary about pro bikes and the technology involved...this isn't it.

obtuse

[swoop]

nice lay-out, nice pictures etc. etc and i'm glad someone is talking about this stuff i just wish it wasn't someone as clueless. there are so many wrong conclusions, errors and lack of knowledge about frame geometry and proper bike design in that blog that the author makes the product managers at specialized look like ugo de rosa.

boonen doesn't need a top tube over sixty centemeters. he was on a stock 58cm and his issue was never position; it was handling and weight balance. how can this guy really think that the quick step mechanics couldn't get the position right?

as an aside- in general given all the other numbers no one needs a top tube over 60cms long; all bikes will handle like shi'ite with the resulting front centers...there's a narrow range of possible geometries with which a bicycle can still handle properly.....but i digress.

i really wish there was insightful commentary about pro bikes and the technology involved...this isn't it.

obtuse

totally agree about belgian knee warmer dude... hes site looks cool but he doesn't know what he doesn't know. he sounds like a tool.

[atmo]

is Padraig, the author of the original text in question, patrick brady atmo?

[swoop]

is Padraig, the author of the original text in question, patrick brady atmo?


i'll see him (patrick) tomorrow on the training ride and ask.

[Grant McLean]

I am a bit curious about the Specialized brouhaha because this is not their first ever team. Last year they sponsored Gerolsteiner and nobody made a stink about it.

...and don't forget Festina, circa 2000 and 2001 (christope moreau won the prologue that year)

...aqua&sapone 2002 super mario won the world championships

g

[swoop]

the stink is about the guys making the stink. it's just passionate newbies making easy assumptions and posting. its hard to tell people that they don't have the langauge yet when they think they do.

they'll get there.... but something about the interweb breeds guys having strong opinions while working from a small piece of info.
their assumptions make sense if what was in front of them was the whole picture.. and because they see something they assume that is thw whole picture.

they just don't know yet. they get points for participating but... for some reason get reaay threatened by being confronted with the big picture.

there's nothing going on there that isn't normal.

[zeroking17]

Man, you tough guys are being tough on BKW! I like that blog. It's entertaining, includes photos I've not seen elsewhere, and generally exudes an attitude that I find "just right" for talking about the circus of pro cycling.

Hey, I can't quibble with you experts about 2 cm more or less on Boonen's top-tube. I won't pretend that I have the foggiest idea about the correct dimension. But that won't ruin the fun for me of reading that blog.

[ergott]

i really wish there was insightful commentary about pro bikes and the technology involved...this isn't it.

obtuse

Well...

You definitely have a lot of insight on this sort of stuff. Give us a blog. I'm not being facetious. I think you have a lot to offer with regards to what's going on in the peleton. It would be nice to read. Give some primers for the noobies and the latest happenings for more seasoned fans that are really into tech.

[rpm]

Here is something I don't get. Cyclingnews has a feature on Ballan's special Wilier for Paris-Roubaix.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/apr07/roubaix07/tech/?id=/tech/2007/features/ballan_leroi_roubaix

It's all carbon, but it's modified in lots of ways, including longer chainstays, more tire clearances for using Shimano long-reach brakes. They seemed to have been able to change his bike substantially without investing hundreds of thousands of dollars for new molds. So why couldn't Specialized do that, too?

[sspielman]

Here is something I don't get. Cyclingnews has a feature on Ballan's special Wilier for Paris-Roubaix.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/apr07/roubaix07/tech/?id=/tech/2007/features/ballan_leroi_roubaix

It's all carbon, but it's modified in lots of ways, including longer chainstays, more tire clearances for using Shimano long-reach brakes. They seemed to have been able to change his bike substantially without investing hundreds of thousands of dollars for new molds. So why couldn't Specialized do that, too?

My contention is that being able to modify a frame's geometry for individual riders is an ESSENTIAL design feature of a bike that aspires to professional quality. Making a bike in a 3-4 sizes fits all mold is great for making large numbers at a low cost, but-as we have seen- it is poorly adaptable to meet the specific needs of individual riders.

[benb]

It probably has a lot to do with when Boonen may have asked for something special versus when Ballan asked for something special.

Some of the blame for this whole situation has to fall on Boonen.

Also is the Willier a lug & tube design versus Specialized using a monocoque? That would explain Willier being able to adapt more quickly.

Specialized claims 8-12 weeks to develop a mold, as their frames are indeed monocoque.

[AgilisMerlin]

I wish i was worthy of this thread.


back to the sandbox........................................... ...............................

[AgilisMerlin]

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/7134.0.html

Jochim Aerts started building bikes under his own name in 1997 and the bikes are extremely well respected. I've got my share of friends in the peloton; Tom Boonen, whose father works in the [Ridley] factory, grew up riding the bikes in the amateur ranks and spoke very highly of them to me before we took the line on.

http://www.vellendtech.com/categories.php?cid=158

Ridley Bicycles was founded in 1990. Through innovative technical and graphic design, Ridley quickly became the leading manufacturer in Belgium. In the early years, Ridley became known for supporting local grass roots teams and riders in Belgium, including a young Tom Boonen when he won the Belgian U23 championship in 2001.

http://bp3.blogger.com/_nhTxq79ZguM/RiOZS5ibnaI/AAAAAAAAAbE/J70i12kBIQw/s1600-h/Hoste+and+Boonen+P-R+bikes.JPG

http://bp3.blogger.com/_nhTxq79ZguM/RiOZS5ibnaI/AAAAAAAAAbE/J70i12kBIQw/s1600/Hoste%2Band%2BBoonen%2BP-R%2Bbikes.JPG


So my inside-the-peleton sources tell me some juicy tidbits. Look at these bikes (Hoste and Boonen's Paris Roubaix bikes). See any similarities?


Our Belgian bound compatriot has the inside line on the G-2 and custom Ridley seems to be the word on the street. A smallish cricket with rainbow stripes is also feeling some discontent and his mechanic now apparently hows his original frame. I'm hoping the "S" can rectify all the issues...then again, what do I know? This could be all horse cockey.

[Dude]

here are my thoughts. I am sure this has been talked about a billion times 'round the world, different nerds on different forums taking their best guess.

The only unique characteristics of this frame are the DT, where it is ovalized at the BB and the HT has, what serotta calls an "eccentric" HT (which it really isn't). Neither of which are on the Ridley frame.

Other than that, I can't recognize any other part of the bike. The specialized E5 frames don't have either of those characteristics either. So, i'm stumped.

[swoop]

you guys have read to much marketing stuff and too many team presentation bio's.

boonen knows his geo, he had a rig made in his geo. he rides for specialized so its a specialized.

there isn't anything else to it.

this is how it works, always has, always will. it doesn't matter.

do you want to see the bikes that some of the slipstream guys ride that my friend aram made?

predatorcycles.com

i can tell by my response that im frustrated here. i think i'm done.



do you want to talk about some brands of bikes that are having issues that you're not hearing about? stuff like aero seat tubes misaligned so you can't get the saddle on straight.. and yes they are protour.

you guys cant be this dumb.

as for your ridley theory.. just ask lance.. he's the guy with the flat top and is sinclair/us ridley and is the nicest dude ever.
you know what they do in the ridley factory in belgium? that place is state of the art.... good painting!