Hypothetically speaking, what's the best way to get to riding weight?

[Tom]

Say you have the case of somebody weighing about 175 pounds after the winter, carrying maybe 20 pounds of fat and they could afford to lose about 8 pounds of it. Hypothetically speaking, of course, or maybe I'm talking about my friend. Yeah, that's it. My friend.

Does one:

Assuming 8-11 hours on the bike every week

(1) Eat and drink normally and:
(1.a) drink nothing but water on any ride, no matter the length, eat nothing either?
(1.b) take energy drink on rides longer than 2 hours?
(2) Eat and drink a lot less and:
(2.a) drink nothing but water on any ride, no matter the length, eat nothing either?
(2.b) take energy drink on rides longer than 2 hours?

Option 1.a has been the method of choice. Perhaps option 1.a.1 - same as option 1 except "Stop living on dog food" should be added.

No weird diets. The only concession my friend cares to make along those lines is better quality and less quantity.

[AgilisMerlin]

all the above.


and many more ways too.

i am on atkins. i get carbs from fruit, veg, and granola. I have lost close to 25 lbs. i am hovering somewhere around 135 now. I max out a 2.5 hr rides, so the depletion aspect really does not affect me.

Most don't agree with this diet.


nuts, meat, eggs, protein (all that fake meat - soy crap), fruit, vegetables, no flour of any kind, no sweets, no booze - etc etc etc................

i eat like a bastard, do not snack.

works for me

so basically, from my point of view..................don't change a thing. eat less.

[regularguy412]

I landed on this 'diet' back in about 1996. I had been racing for about seven years and no matter HOW much I rode, I just couldn't lose the extra 15 lbs that I needed to lose to improve my climbing. After much research I finally found out what works for me.

Breakfast: small bowl of whole grain cereal, like Total Raisin Bran or Kellogg's Crunch Granola, with skim milk and a glass of juice, a good multi-vitamin and an extra vitamin C tablet

Lunch: a 'normal' lunch ,, something like a Subway sandwich and chips, or even pizza. Don't over-do it on the calories. Water with this meal, usually.

Mid-afternoon snack (planning on a ride at 5 or 6 pm): small candy bar and a few ounces of a soft drink.

One-hour to two-hour ride in the evening.

Now here's the part that I really changed the most --- the Evening meal: one small can of tuna, or one grilled chicken breast, or 3 oz of lean ham,,,a couple of slices of cheese and juice, plus the vitamin supplements as at breakfast.

If I'm taking a ride in the morning , like on Saturday or Sunday, I skip the cereal w/milk,, just have juice and a small amount of protein. I don't like to ride long and hard with lots of fiber and dairy in my stomach.

ON the bike, I use Cytomax mixed at half strength ( too sweet otherwise). On long , hot rides (over 2 hours) I take an extra bottle of plain water. I drink about one 24 oz. bottle of Cytomax per hour. It is my contention that you need 'small twigs to burn the big logs' ,so you need to feed your body small amounts of carb WHILE riding ,in order to burn the fat. I almost never use solid food on the bike. I don't tolerate it well. GU gel or similar is good. I've also used grapes with good success. On my long rides, I try to keep my heart rate around 135 -145 while 'cruising'. Sometimes I'll do intervals on the hills,, allowing my heart rate to climb into the anaerobic threshold zone at the tops of the hills. For me, that's about 160 beats per minute to about 170. My resting heart rate is 47 and my absolute max is 181. I'm 47 years old. I try to spend abouit 10-12 hours per week on the bike.

Losing weight is about total calories in vs. total calories burned. On January 1, 2006 I weighed 221 lbs. Using the above method I lost 50 lbs down to 171 by September 1, 2006. So far this spring I've lost an additional 2 lbs. I'd like to get back down to my racing weight of about 150 - 155, whether I decide to race again or not.

Hope this helps.

Mike in AR

[JasonF]

Losing those stubborn 8-10 pounds of fat takes some work, but I was able to do it with very little pain by doing the following:

1. Determine your basal metabolic rate (how many calories you burn just breathing oxygen). You can use this link to find that out:

http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/

2. Then use the Harris-Benedict forumla to calculate your total daily caloric needs taking into account your activity level (i.e., cycling):

http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/harris-benedict-equation/

Once you have figured out your total daily caloric needs, shoot for eating 500 under this maintenance level. This will promote fat/weight loss without adversely affecting your body's metabolism. In other words, you will not be starving yourself and your body won't react by slowing metabolism to conserve calories. This is not a weird diet, but you do need to figure out how much you need to take in to promote weight loss.

I had a very stubborn 15-20 pounds that I couldn't lose no matter how hard I tried. Since February, I have been monitoring my intake and output (I log my calories into Fitday.com) and have watched the pounds melt away without feeling hungry or sacrificing too much. The only real changes to my diet are that I cut out all overly refined foods, soda, etc...and I eat 6 meals a day.

During rides over an hour, I'll bring some diluted Endurox or a Powerbar.

Counting calories and logging them into a spreadsheet was the LAST thing I ever wanted to do. However, at least for me, I saw the fastest results when I was able to track my daily caloric intake. In about 3 months I went from a 5'6" 160ish down to 140lbs. My body fat has gone from 20% down to 13% and my new goal is to get to 10% (where I was when I was racing in college) by Memorial Day.

If you really want to read up on things, I would absolutely recommend Tom Venuto's e-book, Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle. It has really changed my attitude toward dieting (which I don't do) why fad diets fail in the long run (they tend to shut down your metabolism, cannabolize muscle to preserve fat) and how to incorporate fat and weight loss into a cycling program. Good luck!!

[catulle]

Losing those stubborn 8-10 pounds of fat takes some work, but I was able to do it with very little pain by doing the following:

1. Determine your basal metabolic rate (how many calories you burn just breathing oxygen). You can use this link to find that out:

http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/

2. Then use the Harris-Benedict forumla to calculate your total daily caloric needs taking into account your activity level (i.e., cycling):

http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/harris-benedict-equation/

Once you have figured out your total daily caloric needs, shoot for eating 500 under this maintenance level. This will promote fat/weight loss without adversely affecting your body's metabolism. In other words, you will not be starving yourself and your body won't react by slowing metabolism to conserve calories. This is not a weird diet, but you do need to figure out how much you need to take in to promote weight loss.

I had a very stubborn 15-20 pounds that I couldn't lose no matter how hard I tried. Since February, I have been monitoring my intake and output (I log my calories into Fitday.com) and have watched the pounds melt away without feeling hungry or sacrificing too much. The only real changes to my diet are that I cut out all overly refined foods, soda, etc...and I eat 6 meals a day.

During rides over an hour, I'll bring some diluted Endurox or a Powerbar.

Counting calories and logging them into a spreadsheet was the LAST thing I ever wanted to do. However, at least for me, I saw the fastest results when I was able to track my daily caloric intake. In about 3 months I went from a 5'6" 160ish down to 140lbs. My body fat has gone from 20% down to 13% and my new goal is to get to 10% (where I was when I was racing in college) by Memorial Day.

If you really want to read up on things, I would absolutely recommend Tom Venuto's e-book, Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle. It has really changed my attitude toward dieting (which I don't do) why fad diets fail in the long run (they tend to shut down your metabolism, cannabolize muscle to preserve fat) and how to incorporate fat and weight loss into a cycling program. Good luck!!

You totally get it.

[Climb01742]

...and I eat 6 meals a day.

jason, may i ask what makes up those 6 meals? my coach has been trying to get me to eat more, smaller "meals" but i find it's hard to have the needed food on hand throughout the day, especially at work. any suggestions very appreciated. thanks.

[rdparadise]

I did the body for life program back in 2004 and the results were fantastic. This program recommends 6 meals a day as well. Each meal recommended a protein and a carb and three meals were considered larger (normal) and three smaller. Under this program, a protein shake could be considered one meal and this helps a lot in getting to the six meal quota. Of course, along with this program is six days of exercise for about 20-45 minutes each morning.

When I started the program, I was 177lbs and 15% body fat. When I completed the program, I was down to 162 lbs and 9% body fat. Now, if I could have kept this program going.

Some challenges under this program are following the eating plan 6 days per week with one blow off day to eat whatever I wanted. Secondly, all meals were lean, lowfat meats and foods with complex carbs. No white flour, simple carbs, soda, juice, etc. A simple meal would be cottage cheese mixed with fruit yogurt. The cottage cheese counted for the protein and the yogurt the carb.

You can find out more by going to www.bodyforlife.com On this webpage are all the materials for tracking your eating and workouts.

Now, I need to get back on this program so that I can get back to the 160's in weight! :banana:

Bob

[JasonF]

jason, may i ask what makes up those 6 meals? my coach has been trying to get me to eat more, smaller "meals" but i find it's hard to have the needed food on hand throughout the day, especially at work. any suggestions very appreciated. thanks.

Hey Climb,

Here's a typical day for me (I ride on the weekends, but spin or weight train during the workweek). If my morning workout is a heavy weight training session, I'll also eat a small bowl of cereal 1/2 hour before working out, upping the "meals" to 7. Cardio is done on an empty stomach (some people feel this is optimal for weight loss, others feel that it is not). My spin workouts are to a Spinerval dvd (usually uphill climb).

1. 7am (after workout) - 1/2 cup oatmeal, 1 scoop protein powder, a little cinnamon, milk, and honey to taste. This really fills me up, and is a great way to start the day.

2. 10am - chicken breast (they now sell pre-cooked pre-packed chicken breasts that aren't too bad. I think Bumble Bee is the brand)and some steamed broccoli. On weight-training days I may substitute a protein shake for this.

3. Lunch (1ish) - Turkey on whole wheat with mustard, some pretzels or low-fat chips.

4. 3ish - a bunch of almonds (great source of "good" fats and protein). Fills me up nicely and provides a nice energy bounce. Beats the hell out of a Snickers bar. I never have a food crash.

5. Dinner 6pm - salmon, chicken, turkey burgers, steak (any protein source), steamed carrots, brussel sprouts (love 'em) and some brown rice. For dessert I may have a couple of South Beach Diet peanut butter cookies and some milk (they're not too bad).

6. 8:30 evening snack - cottage cheese mixed with either some natural (no sugar added) peanut butter, pineapple, sugar free jelly, etc...Cottage cheese is a great source of casein protein, and there's growing evidence that ending the day with some casein protein helps keep the metabolic fires stoked after bedtime due to the fact that casein is a slow-digesting food source. Some people hate cottage cheese. In that case, natural peanut butter is good.

This is my typical "cut" diet, which is around 1,800 calories (or 500 below my maintenance). When I get down to 10%, I will up the calories to 2,500-3,000 by eating more of the above and do a "clean bulk" to build muscle mass. In warmer weather when I'm riding more, I'll also up the quantities.

The only supplements I take are a multivitamin and Udo's 3-6-9 blend essential fatty acid tab (2x a day). I drink about a gallon of water per day (more so when riding).

The trick to eating 6 meals is planning ahead. I take some time the night before to think things through, and go food shopping on the weekends. It was a total pain in the a** at first, but now it's second nature. I've been able to preserve muscle mass (I have been lifting since I was 17, I'm now 37) while losing fat.

Bringing food to work can be a hassle. Do you have a refrigerator? I run a hedge fund, and running to the bathroom is a luxury, let alone preparing a meal (I haven't taken a lunch in years). So pre-packing food I can just grab has made life easier.

Your coach's advice is even more important if you're seriously training. Keeping your body constantly fueled will do wonders for your energy levels. We've all bonked before, and it's a feeling I never want to happen again.

Here are few general guidelines:

1. each meal should contain a source of protein, carb and fat (my ratio is 40/40/20)...you may want to up the carb intake if you're riding a lot.

2. get to know how much energy (food) your body needs to maintain peak performance. How many of us have tracked average speed, number of intervals, etc...when training, but have no idea what or how much we ate?

3. trick your body so that its metabolism stays high (if you want to lose fat). Have a cheat meal (or cheat day once a week), don't let your body get into starvation mode (it feels like a slow bonk), read up on carb cycling if you really get into it.

Sorry to ramble, but the missing piece of the puzzle in my search for more energy and less fat was to get my diet in check.

[Climb01742]

jason, wow. thanks a lot. very kind of you to take time to write such a detailed reply. this helps a great deal. luckily, i do have a fridge here at the office. as you said, planning and preparation will be the key. thanks again!

[JasonF]

jason, wow. thanks a lot. very kind of you to take time to write such a detailed reply. this helps a great deal. luckily, i do have a frig here at the office. as you said, planning and preparation will be the key. thanks again!

Hey, no problem.

[davids]

luckily, i do have a frig here at the office.
climb,

I think you mean "fridge". But a frig can help you lose weight, too!

p.s. Thanks Jason - I've been looking at 10 extra pounds for a few years now, and I'm not sure that just "riding more" will get them gone.

[zap]

Hard tempo riding for miles and miles and miles and miles and miles.

[JasonF]

p.s. Thanks Jason - I've been looking at 10 extra pounds for a few years now, and I'm not sure that just "riding more" will get them gone.

David,

You're welcome. I was (am?) in the same boat. I would go on 5 hour solo rides of 80+ miles consistently through the Summer and wonder why there was a spare tire around the middle.

[Mud]

In October 2004 my wife had hip surgery for the 3rd time. After rehab she gained weight since the Dr made her wait before riding again (she was riding in 3 months after the second surgery and the bone never knit completely). She went on weight watchers. I was amazed at the results. She seemed to eat better and more than before.

I had always considered 185# a good number for me and have always had to diet to keep it there. We tried Atkins but like most unbalanced diets it has its limits and the weight snuck back.

I started WWs on my own in Jan 2006. I am vegetarian, but will eat fish once in a while as will she. I like Morningstar Veggie Burgers and buy them in mass quantities at BJs. I start most days with a huge bowl of oatmeal with fresh fruit, east 2 veggie burgers for lunch with 2 slices of WWs bread, and have pasta (whole wheat, no sauce or sometimes tomato sauce) salad, vegetables, fish, whatever for dinner, even baked potato.

My wife is 117#(5'5") and I am 151#(5'10"-). We ride 5 days a week either inside or outside. The best diets for longer life and health are minimalist. At 65 I would like to keep it going for a couple of more years anyway. If food is the trade off I can live with that. So long as there are WWs or Healthy choice fudge pops that support my 3 pop a day habit I can manage. I eat plenty, am not hungry and don't get sick.

I also go to IHop once in a while and Ruth Cris on rare ocassions.

Having battled weight my whole life, cycling and climbing at least gives me a reason to be disciplined. I may never make it up Waugauw Rd non stop but I would never have had a chance 2 years ago. So the answer is to pick something that works and is healthy, and stick to it

[Karin Kirk]

Sorry, double post. See below...

[JasonF]

Hard tempo riding for miles and miles and miles and miles and miles.

Zap is right in that there's a ton of anecdotal evidence that interval training does far more for fat loss than steady state cardio. "HIIT" (high intensity interval training) is all the rage amond body builders doing a final cut before competition. HIIT, it is thought, boosts the metabolism long after the cardio session is done. The Body for Life cardio program is a form of HIIT where you do 4 rounds of intervals of increasing intensity during a brief (but hard) 20-minute session.

[Karin Kirk]

Tom,

The replies above give you the perfect answers. Basically, the way to lose weight is to do it while off the bike. Skipping energy drinks or energy food while riding will mostly just reduce your ... er, I mean your friend's ... riding performance. And that is counterproductive of course.

The best method, as has been described above, is to find a sensible, sustainable eating plan that can be maintained without starving or suffering. Then ride as hard/long as you please, with the appropriate fuels for riding.

Good luck!

[Climb01742]

Zap is right in that there's a ton of anecdotal evidence that interval training does far more for fat loss than steady state cardio. "HIIT" (high intensity interval training) is all the rage amond body builders doing a final cut before competition. HIIT, it is thought, boosts the metabolism long after the cardio session is done. The Body for Life cardio program is a form of HIIT where you do 4 rounds of intervals of increasing intensity during a brief (but hard) 20-minute session.

my coach echos this, as well. interval sessions are like heavy lifting sessions, forcing the body to burn extra calories, for longer, after the workout.

there is also the "thermic" (sp?) effect. more, smaller meals through the day does two things: keeps the body from dropping it's metabolic rate between big meals, and digesting food actually burns calories itself.

[zap]

Zap is right in that there's a ton of anecdotal evidence that interval training does far more for fat loss than steady state cardio. "HIIT" (high intensity interval training) is all the rage amond body builders doing a final cut before competition. HIIT, it is thought, boosts the metabolism long after the cardio session is done. The Body for Life cardio program is a form of HIIT where you do 4 rounds of intervals of increasing intensity during a brief (but hard) 20-minute session.

No, I mean long hard, steady miles. My results show that interval training does not burn as much calories as long steady tempo riding. Yes you burn the calories during the hard intervals, but the burn rate went way down during the recovery period, bringing the average down.

Take your 20 minute example. I can notch back my 20 minute average heart rate back a bit and ride at that intensity for hours. If I'm in great shape, I can burn around 1400 calories/hr for several hours. Plus my metabolism is raging hours after a multi hour workout.

Studies have shown that riding between 65-80% of max heart rate is best for burning fat. I think Cyclingnews.com had posted something not to long ago about this and the type of fat being used.

[jthurow]

Losing those stubborn 8-10 pounds of fat takes some work, but I was able to do it with very little pain by doing the following:

1. Determine your basal metabolic rate (how many calories you burn just breathing oxygen). You can use this link to find that out:

http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/

2. Then use the Harris-Benedict forumla to calculate your total daily caloric needs taking into account your activity level (i.e., cycling):

http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/harris-benedict-equation/

Jason, et al,
Thanks for all this really great info. I don't mean to highjack the thread but I have a question about calculators such as these, and specifically the Body Mass Index ones. I'm 6'4" and weigh roughly 190. My wife thinks I'm almost too skinny now but when I plug that info into the calculator, I'm on the upper end of healthy (BMI=23). To get to underweight, I need to weigh under 156!! Now that seems like crazy talk to me. Can anyone make sense of this to me?

jimi

[Climb01742]

No, I mean long hard, steady miles. My results show that interval training does not burn as much calories as long steady tempo riding. Yes you burn the calories during the hard intervals, but the burn rate went way down during the recovery period, bringing the average down.

Take your 20 minute example. I can notch back my 20 minute average heart rate back a bit and ride at that intensity for hours. If I'm in great shape, I can burn around 1400 calories/hr for several hours. Plus my metabolism is raging hours after a multi hour workout.

Studies have shown that riding between 65-80% of max heart rate is best for burning fat. I think Cyclingnews.com had posted something not to long ago about this and the type of fat being used.

zap, i personally don't have the knowledge to say one way or the other, but according to my coach/trainer (who, FWIW, has a masters in sports physiology from uconn) this has been disproven. he says intervals (for cardio) and heavy lifting (for strength) burn more calories when you take into account the cals burned during and post workout. again, i'm just passing on the opinion but my dude is pretty research savvy, FWIW. but as is often the case, different things might work for different folks.

[JasonF]

Jason, et al,
Thanks for all this really great info. I don't mean to highjack the thread but I have a question about calculators such as these, and specifically the Body Mass Index ones. I'm 6'4" and weigh roughly 190. My wife thinks I'm almost too skinny now but when I plug that info into the calculator, I'm on the upper end of healthy (BMI=23). To get to underweight, I need to weigh under 156!! Now that seems like crazy talk to me. Can anyone make sense of this to me?

jimi

The use of BMI as a measure of health has been discredited as of late due to the fact that what may be an average for a population (the BMI index in this case) may be apples to oranges when it comes to your own physiology. For example, bodybuilders' BMI would be off the charts and "show" that they're morbidly obese due to the fact that their lean body mass is very high (muscle weighs more than fat, etc, etc...). In short, their BMI could be extremely high, yet their bodyfat was in the single digits. This could be the case with you as well. You have a nice amount of lean body mass (LBM) that's setting off a false signal. The only way to get a 100% accurate reading of bodyfat is through hydrostatic fat testing (getting dunked in a pool).

[jthurow]

The use of BMI as a measure of health has been discredited as of late due to the fact that what may be an average for a population (the BMI index in this case) may be apples to oranges when it comes to your own physiology. For example, bodybuilders' BMI would be off the charts and "show" that they're morbidly obese due to the fact that their lean body mass is very high (muscle weighs more than fat, etc, etc...). In short, their BMI could be extremely high, yet their bodyfat was in the single digits. This could be the case with you as well. You have a nice amount of lean body mass (LBM) that's setting off a false signal. The only way to get a 100% accurate reading of bodyfat is through hydrostatic fat testing (getting dunked in a pool).

Thanks again, Jason. I do have pretty stocky farmer legs that are not reflected in my upper body and I thought that fact could skewer the BMI info for me. But in general, if I was proportioned proportionally, 6'4" and 156 just doesn't seem like it could be healthy.

jimi

[JasonF]

my coach echos this, as well. interval sessions are like heavy lifting sessions, forcing the body to burn extra calories, for longer, after the workout.

there is also the "thermic" (sp?) effect. more, smaller meals through the day does two things: keeps the body from dropping it's metabolic rate between big meals, and digesting food actually burns calories itself.

That's my understanding too. I once lamented to a bodybuilder that I lift a lot, and can't seem to get much bigger (staying all natural - steroid free). His reply, after watching me workout, was "you lift with the intensity of a little old lady."

I'm definitely not an exercise physiologist, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night!

[samtaylor1]

A great snack food that is filling is hard boiled eggs (throw away the yoke). I got an egg boiler (20 dollars from target) and it is a great tool to lose pounds. The boiler makes it easy to always have the eggs on hand, and the protein that you get from the eggs is good for you and fills you up.

Another method is Medamussal (spelling?). Anyways, this drink is just pure fiber and coats your stomach. Thus if you drink some 20 min before you eat you won't be as hungry. This is what some doctors use to give as weight loss drinks back in the day.

Just my 2 cents

[Climb01742]

"you lift with the intensity of a little old lady."

i was in the same boat. i was afraid of getting injured lifting heavy and i bought into the low weight/hi rep mantra.

my coach/trainer has totally revamped my lifting. i'm doing heavy weights and low reps (3-5) and 3-4 sets. i've gotten far stronger without a (knock on wood!) a single injury. the key is form and a well designed program. having a coach watch you, teach and correct your form is crucial.

so much training "wisdom" has been never been tested, and now that much for research is being done, many old ideas are being disproven.

an aside: sunday afternoon i trained with my coach, then hung out to watch him work with 3 college football players aiming toward the june supplemental NFL combine. these guys if they catch on will be free agents and probably training squad guys...yet they were so far beyond what we "normal" athletes are. it was humbling. these guys were doing amazing lifts and agility things...yet they might be the 50th best guy on any NFL team. insane.

[William]

Say you have the case of somebody weighing about 175 pounds after the winter, carrying maybe 20 pounds of fat and they could afford to lose about 8 pounds of it. Hypothetically speaking, of course, or maybe I'm talking about my friend. Yeah, that's it. My friend.


No weird diets. The only concession my friend cares to make along those lines is better quality and less quantity.

Option 3. Let me chase you around your house with a Meivici Top Tube for one hour a day.

If I don't catch you, you'll get one heck of a one heck of a borderline cardio/sprint work out. If I catch you......well, just don't let me catch you. ;)




William

[A.L.Breguet]

I know little about any of this, but I do know it's a baaaaad idea to starve yourself on the bike.

Also, race lots to get that metabolism pumping.

[RPS]

Thanks again, Jason. I do have pretty stocky farmer legs that are not reflected in my upper body and I thought that fact could skewer the BMI info for me. But in general, if I was proportioned proportionally, 6'4" and 156 just doesn't seem like it could be healthy.

jimiIMHO, BMI is incredibly stupid – sorry to be so blunt.
Additionally, it doesn’t apply well to very tall people. Or very short.
I wouldn't waste any time on it -- but that's just me.

[Xyzzy]

Up until last Sunday I have been off the bike since September doing knee rehab. Sure, I'd lightly spin on the rollers but that isn't much of a workout.

In October 2003 I was 280 pounds after years of being grossly obese. Earlier in life I had been very fit (Army paratrooper) but after an injury in 1994 I could barely walk. I finally get desperate and gave myself a year to lose the weight. A lot of mistakes were made in the process but I did it in 362 days, mostly by intense cardiovascular workout sessions.

However, once you get injured again, those intense workout sessions aren't possible. I bottomed out at ~150 pounds last May (Up until March I was doing 400 miles a week for more than a year) and then I wasn't able to ride hardly at all. Like a fool I tried to ride through the injury. (Lesson learned.) My weight ballooned back up to 215.

So now I have taken a different route. The diet. Once you get the hang of it, it is pretty simple. The chart you see attached is all diet, and a 3 mile walk a day to "wake up" my metabolism.

Thats right. 3 miles a day. Anyone can do that, right? Even me.

Sure, now that I can ride again I expect to lose weight faster. (And strangely, it appears as if I haven't lost any of my "cycling fitness" in the last 6 months, so either I am lucky or I never had any to begin with!)

I believe, for me, diet is 90% of the equation.

You may ask: What's up with the big red spike there?

I have manic depression and I tend to have pretty severe mood swings. I'd lost weight a lot faster if I could keep in the green zone. My latest batch of voodoo pills seem to be helping. Minor red spikes are birthday parties or stuff like that. With the averaging software (free) you can keep tabs on the loss without sweating the day to day variances that make most people freak out.

http://www.physicsdiet.com/Public.aspx?u=Mike
http://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/

I'm not saying my 17.9 pound weight loss since January is impressive. It isn't. What is impressive to me is the way I can "mess up" and recover. All I need to do now is lessen the time in the red and maximize my time in the green. In the past I'd mess up, get depressed and give up. Knowing I can recover in 2-3 days is liberating.

If I can lose weight anyone can. Motivation won't do it for long. Fad diets won't do it. Discipline is what is needed. Do or do not do. There is no try.

Now if you have some sort of mental disorder, like I do, there are other aspects you need to take care of. If you are "normal" then it should be even easier. I never believed my diagnosis of manic depression until the last few years, but now I accept it. (Medicine compliance is a start.)

I fully expect to be back at 150 by the end of the summer.

Finally, the best part. There is no set diet. Choose what plan you want to follow. The information in the book is liberating. And it is all free.

It is so simple people disregard it. It can't be that easy and work. It can't be free and work. It has to hurt and cost a lot.

But that ain't true.

[William]

IMHO, BMI is incredibly stupid – sorry to be so blunt.
Additionally, it doesn’t apply well to very tall people. Or very short.
I wouldn't waste any time on it -- but that's just me.


Very true. According to the BMI stats, I'm very overweight. :confused:

Calculated:
Height: 6 feet, 6 inches
Weight: 258 pounds

Your BMI is 29.8, indicating your weight is in the overweight category for adults of your height.

It doesn't seem to take into account people with athletic builds.

William

[JasonF]

I believe, for me, diet is 90% of the equation.

If I can lose weight anyone can. Motivation won't do it for long. Fad diets won't do it. Discipline is what is needed. Do or do not do. There is no try.

Now if you have some sort of mental disorder, like I do, there are other aspects you need to take care of. If you are "normal" then it should be even easier. I never believed my diagnosis of manic depression until the last few years, but now I accept it. (Medicine compliance is a start.)


Xyzzy,

Congratulations for your success, I admire your guts to be so forthcoming with this post. I too kept running into walls until I finally got my diet in order. Once in check, things started to happen very quickly. For me, diet is 95% of the equation.

There is a great web resource to be found at the http://forum.bodybuilding.com/ website forums. Many serious weight trainers, and those interested in dropping weight, chime in on the effects certain drugs have on their progress. I wouldn't be surprised to find active threads on the challenges of bipolar disorder there. Good luck, and great job.

Jason

[Xyzzy]

2006

Note the initial loss. 3-4 centuries a week will do that no matter what you eat.

Note the massive red spike. Note the desperate attempts to recover, aggravating the injury. (Which actually happened in February, and, had I treated it properly with a month of rest probably would have been okay.)

Note the desperation at the end, in October, when I gave up logging. Big freaking mistake.

I have a group of friends on another forum. Every Monday we post our weekly chart. It is great because the mere act of posting your chart shames you to do better. If you "fall off the wagon", they are there to help you get back on.

Lessons I have learned:

If you are injured, don't ride through it.
Exercise alone works fine, until you can't exercise.
Logging your weight and smoothing the output eliminates any vagueness
You probably need a support network to keep in the green, unless you are very very disciplined.
Stay on your medicine.
Experiment. Learn. Document.

[fstrthnu]

Calories in/Calories out.

There is no easy way to loose weight. Just eat less and drink a lot of plain water.


Tony: "Whats a good, light sandwich?... you know... low in fat. I'm trying to loose weight."

Boss Man: "Half a sandwich!"

[Xyzzy]

There is a great web resource to be found at the http://forum.bodybuilding.com/ website forums. Many serious weight trainers, and those interested in dropping weight, chime in on the effects certain drugs have on their progress. I wouldn't be surprised to find active threads on the challenges of bipolar disorder there.
Thanks for the link. I'll definitely check it out.

Finding the right medicine has been an interesting journey. The side effects frequently cause me to quit taking the medicine, which is a real bad thing. For example, I spent the most part of December curled up in a ball in bed as I went through "withdrawl" from my previous medicine. Funny how the doctors never mention stuff like this. I thought I was going to die.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSRI_discontinuation_syndrome

Anyways, enough about me. I don't want or need sympathy. I just want other people out there, who are desperate, to know that there is a solution. It might not be the same as mine, but there is one.

It really boils down to how bad you want it, and education. You need both.

My initial impetus was looking in the mirror. It was the 10 year anniversary of a real bad thing that happened to me in the Army. Looking in the mirror 10 years later, unable to breathe properly, unable to sleep through the night, taking 15-20 medicines for various fat-related ailments, unable to enjoy even the simplest things that most people take for granted, I felt disgust at what I had become.

Anger and rage were my initial tools. I'm not saying that is healthy, but it sure is a powerful tool. (Kicking caffeine to the curb helped a lot too!)

But the best part of all this is the riding, and the friends I have made. When I was confined to my house I never really had any friends. Now I have a bunch that I have met through cycling. Being alone sucks.

[Climb01742]

xyzzy, any chance or interest in coming to open house in june? i believe some folks from your area are coming up; maybe ya'll could come up together? just sayin'...you have pals here, too...pals you just haven't met yet. ;)

[RPS]

Very true. According to the BMI stats, I'm very overweight. :confused:

Calculated:
Height: 6 feet, 6 inches
Weight: 258 pounds

Your BMI is 29.8, indicating your weight is in the overweight category for adults of your height.

It doesn't seem to take into account people with athletic builds.

WilliamBMI is fundamentally flawed. Not only can it not differentiate between good and bad weight -- like bones and muscles versus fat -- it also doesn't deal with body proportions correctly.

IMO BMI is too easy to misuse, and is mostly a crutch so people can be told they are overweight without making it sound personal.

[Fat Robert]

dropping weight?


bacteria:


it works.

[Climb01742]

even the pro's grapple with this...not just losing weight, but the riddle of fewer calories can send your metabolism into the famine-slowdown response...from today's cyclingnews...

"The elements are there for Franzoi to take victory; in fact, he noted that he needs to slim down for the Classics. "I don't miss anything. I have a little more than I need," he said referring to his weight. "They say that I can eliminate another three kilograms, to be at 70 kilograms, but I am already very attentive at the table. I have to regulate my self a little better, to become more professional.

"It is hard because if you train a lot it becomes difficult to drop weight; it will be a slow metabolism."

[William]

BMI is fundamentally flawed. Not only can it not differentiate between good and bad weight -- like bones and muscles versus fat -- it also doesn't deal with body proportions correctly.

IMO BMI is too easy to misuse, and is mostly a crutch so people can be told they are overweight without making it sound personal.


True. And also for Health insurance companies to raise your rates.




William

[zap]

dropping weight?


bacteria:


it works.

Works like a bloody charm. That and long hard rides ;)

I got hit about a month ago. Lost 8lbs. Only gained 3 lbs after that event.

Hills are a little easier now but still hard when riding fast with weigh nothing little freaks.

[Xyzzy]

even the pro's grapple with this...
I feel like Dario Pieri.

(Without the cycling ability, of course!)

[AgilisMerlin]

not eating much works...... :)

[Fat Robert]

weight is good

food for thought:

Skinny Robert, 1993: 350w @ LT; 68kg. 4% fat. Did 2 races all year -- wanted to race a lot, but didn't, by necessity. Sick a lot. Moody a lot. Injured knees a lot. Frustrated.


Fat Robert, 2007: 350w @ LT; 77kg. 8% fat. Could race a lot but don't -- by choice. Healthy. Happy. Good knees. Spreadin the love.


you can get real skinny and still consume the same total volume of oxygen, and still hit the same watts -- like obtuse once said, you've got the big guy heart, lungs, arteries, and veins in the skinny guy body. the problem is your immune system is chronically depressed and you can put a hurt on your joints because you no longer have muscle mass for support.


you have to weigh the impact of the lifestyle changes on your mental, emotional, and physical health vs. your current state. For most of us, bigger is better.

fat is the new skinny.

[LesMiner]

There was some newsbyte on network news about a weight loss study that concluded that exercise made no difference. Only reducing intake works. Now that seems to be contrary to all the other studies. Never heard any more about it.

[Louis]

For me the key is finding a system that somehow provides the willpower / motivation to keep my appetite in check. IMO, unless one has a medical or hormonal condition, it all comes down to willpower for both portion control at the table and staying away from vending machines at work. There is no magic bullet.

These day I try to tell myself that climbing would be easier if I could only loose 10 more lbs, and my knees would really appreciate it...

[BoulderGeek]

I haven't refilled my perpetual keg of microbrew IPA in two weeks for exactly this reason.

I need to drop 15lbs by June 1. Trying to go more protein, no ice cream, no more than 1% milk, lots of water, fewer sweets, Zone diet ratios, etc.

I got one of those Nike+ kits for the iPod nano, and am going to try to run twice a week. Just need to avoid shin splints.

I read "Heft on Wheels" recently, by Mike Magnusson. He went from 275lbs to 160 through cycling and diet changes (mostly dropping alcohol). Easy read and good motivation.

I'm freaking fat, pale, poor and surly.

I wish Human Growth Hormone/IGF-1 were freely available without prescription.

[RPS]

For me the key is finding a system that somehow provides the willpower / motivation to keep my appetite in check.Same here; and for me using temperature (very carefully) has worked best.
Going hungry and/or increasing exercise volume alone only works for me short-term.

[dancinkozmo]

lets say you need to loose 5-10 lbs....fill up a couple o' gallon container with water..so it weighs about 5-10 lbs. now put it on top of your fridge or pantry. Everytime you go for a snack ,pick up the jug , consider the heft, feel the guilt well up inside . Your urge to snack will miraculously dissipate !!!

if that doesnt work...what they said about bacteria...

[wasfast]

Relative to Xyzzy's comments about about depression and meds, most of the SSRI's make you gain weight. My wife is a long term bipolar II and I also take depression meds. Wellbutron has worked well for both of us without the weight gain and sexual side effects. SNRI's may be a route to pursue.

[Xyzzy]

My current magic potion is clonazepam, lithium and lamotrigine. I agree that most of the medicines out there cause crazy weight gain, mainly by causing you to become sloth-like. (Which is their goal. If you are sedated you are easier to manage.)

A fun site, particularly their forum:

http://www.crazymeds.org/

I consider my psychiatrist to be a personal prescription pad. He doesn't care about my problems and probably has less than an hour invested in me after years of being my doctor. Like they always say, if you want something done right you gotta do it yourself. I figure in the end I'll know more about this disorder than 99.9% of the experts out there. Or something like that.

I get asked about my "problems" all the time. I'd like to be rid or it, but then I wouldn't be me. Well, there are two of us, and the fast one doesn't want to leave. The slow one doesn't care.

Plus, people cut you a bit of slack when they think you are mentally unstable.