My 12 Speed Shimano Group with 11 Speed Crank

[dana_e]

the chain keeps dropping, any ideas?

[joevers]

Yeah, it's something a ton of world tour teams are dealing with.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/worldtour-mechanics-bemoan-shimano-chain-drops/

[Kyle h]

I’ve read some people are spacing out the drive side just a mm or two. Might be worth a shot.

[Matt92037]

Interested to hear more. I will be using a R9100 cransket on a new 12sp Ultegra drive train soon.


the chain keeps dropping, any ideas?

[Dave]

I don't know how a Di2 FD is set up, but a grx 11speed crank works with a shimano 12 chain and sram force axs FD. A lot of sram users suffer from chain drop because they can't get the FD set up properly. Any FD can rotate slightly when the clamp bolt is fully tightened. I carefully measure the gap between the tail of the cage before and after tightening the clamp bolt. If the cage is sitting crooked, you're likely to get chain drops and the limit adjustment becomes far more critical.

[fa63]

The new Di2 FD is setup electronically; it has no limit screws. The reports are that the DA9200 chainrings sit slightly more outboard so even with the limit adjusted all the way in (via the app), folks are dropping chains to the outside on the upshift from the small to the big ring.

I don't know how a Di2 FD is set up...

[Matt92037]

The folks on Weight Weenies seem to think they can get the setup to work without shimming. It will be interesting to try


The new Di2 FD is setup electronically; it has no limit screws. The reports are that the DA9200 chainrings sit slightly more outboard so even with the limit adjusted all the way in (via the app), folks are dropping chains to the outside on the upshift from the small to the big ring.

[rice rocket]

I'm waiting for Shimano to give in with a firmware update.

But really I should move the crank over 1mm. It's about 1.5mm gap in the biggie smalls combo and FD limit all the way inboard.

[Matt92037]

Yeah, 1mm will get er done i bet

I'm waiting for Shimano to give in with a firmware update.

But really I should move the crank over 1mm. It's about 1.5mm gap in the biggie smalls combo and FD limit all the way inboard.

[callmeishmael]

An early adopter of this groupset I know (running the full 12sp groupset) had a couple of trips back to the LBS to sort out chain throw (over the outside from small to big). He now seems to have it sorted, but there’s definitely a consensus emerging that the system is more sensitive to setup than the old one.

As someone about to choose a new groupset (at least in part because I’m fed up with FD issues on AXS) it would be really disappointing if Shimano has created a problem here. Time will tell.

[oldpotatoe]

Yeah, it's something a ton of world tour teams are dealing with.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/worldtour-mechanics-bemoan-shimano-chain-drops/

shimano says
Cyclingnews reached out to Shimano who clarified the following two points. In response to the question of why teams were using the 11-speed chainsets with 12-speed groupsets, Shimano's category marketing manager for road cycling, Erik van Kooten, explained that it "simply has to do with availability of product. Mainly only 172.5mm 12s power meters were delivered to our sponsored teams. The teams make do with the product they have available."

As for whether the two groupsets are officially compatible, van Kooten's answer is a hard no: "The teams are informed on compatibility: officially there is no compatibility between 12s and 11s. We do not recommend using 11s crankset with 12s components."

So, what does shimano recommend these sponsored teams to do? Can't get 12s cranks(product availability) and 11s crank 'not compatible'...

:confused:

[callmeishmael]

shimano says


So, what does shimano recommend these sponsored teams to do? Can't get 12s cranks(product availability) and 11s crank 'not compatible'...

:confused:

I remain baffled by this. I can go online now and buy these, so why the hell can't a pro tour team?

[joevers]

I remain baffled by this. I can go online now and buy these, so why the hell can't a pro tour team?

They all run dual sided power. The DA power meter cranks are like 2k$ each and backordered into next year.

[Philster]

I'm not sure the teams on 11 speed cranks are actually "sponsored". I'm not sure what the different levels of Shimano relationship is, but my understanding is that the actual "sponsored" teams have 12 speed cranks. This probably has something to do with using the full range of Shimano/PRO products.

[joevers]

I'm not sure the teams on 11 speed cranks are actually "sponsored". I'm not sure what the different levels of Shimano relationship is, but my understanding is that the actual "sponsored" teams have 12 speed cranks. This probably has something to do with using the full range of Shimano/PRO products.

Yeah, there are a number of different levels.

Teams like Jumbo Visma and DSM do pedals, groupset, wheels, and even shoes. They likely get everything they need.

Teams like Lotto Soudal or Israel or EF are I believe sponsored at some lower tier, and only run the partial groupset, with different pedals, cranks, cockpits, wheels, and shoes. I'd imagine those teams get a much lower priority for scarce parts like 9200 power meters.

[Hellgate]

I'm waiting for Shimano to give in with a firmware update.

But really I should move the crank over 1mm. It's about 1.5mm gap in the biggie smalls combo and FD limit all the way inboard.Firmware is out for shifters and both derailleurs. Ironically, I did the update yesterday. I didn't notice any difference.

My FD was initially over shifting on the 12 speed crank. The LBS adjusted it via the app. Works great.

[oldpotatoe]

Firmware is out for shifters and both derailleurs. Ironically, I did the update yesterday. I didn't notice any difference.

My FD was initially over shifting on the 12 speed crank. The LBS adjusted it via the app. Works great.

Not a Di2 whiz but it 'seems' like 12s system with 11s crank, the issue would be rubbing in the big ring, not chucking the chain off the big ring. Setting the inner limit when in small ring, biggest cog(lowest gear) and then highest gear...with big ring a wee bit further from the small ring...Don't see how it would 'over shift'...

[rice rocket]

Not a Di2 whiz but it 'seems' like 12s system with 11s crank, the issue would be rubbing in the big ring, not chucking the chain off the big ring. Setting the inner limit when in small ring, biggest cog(lowest gear) and then highest gear...with big ring a wee bit further from the small ring...Don't see how it would 'over shift'...

Can only comment on my own setup, but at the largest gear, I have the FD set to -19 or whatever the max is, and there's still room to drop to the outside.

I'd need to increase the chainline +1mm to bring it into spec (at max adjustment).

[oldpotatoe]

Can only comment on my own setup, but at the largest gear, I have the FD set to -19 or whatever the max is, and there's still room to drop to the outside.

I'd need to increase the chainline +1mm to bring it into spec (at max adjustment).

I haven't fiddled with Di2 since it was pretty new but isn't there an 'on the road', micro adjust mode you can get into to make wee adjustments of the front and rear ders? There used to be and is on my EPS....

[joevers]

I haven't fiddled with Di2 since it was pretty new but isn't there an 'on the road', micro adjust mode you can get into to make wee adjustments of the front and rear ders? There used to be and is on my EPS....

Yeah, you can enter and exit adjustment mode for the rear derailleur by holding down one of the shift buttons for a few seconds. I don't think that's the case for the front derailleur.