OT: Arcteryx

[Plum Hill]

Anyone familiar with the line that can tell me the differences between the Beta AR (All Round) and the Alpha SV (Severe)?
Intended use is for inclement weather, anything from light showers to downpours to snow storms.

Backstory: I have 2004, though bought about two years later on sale, Theta AR. It had been repaired once under warranty. Recently, a zipper became detached from the material. Doing the required laundering and water-proofing before return, other attachments came off. Arcteryx says it can’t be repaired and has offered a 40% coupon for anything in stock on their website.
The Beta AR lists at $599; the Alpha SV at $799. From what I see, the Alpha upcharge is for Canadian labor (I took pride in the ‘Fabrique en Canada’ label in the Theta).
While it saw limited use, the Theta saved my butt (torso, actually) during many downpours. At an advancing age, I wondering if I’m at a point of diminishing returns where a cheap Patagonia would be a more realistic purchase. Then I look at regular flapped zippers vs. waterproof zippers and wonder if getting soaked just once is worth the price point.

[Likes2ridefar]

Nice lifetime warranty.

Same thing happened to me with same theta ar and an alpha sl. I moved on to a brand that has a legit warranty and spent about the same as the 40% discount.

[fmradio516]

This must be a newer policy from them... 4-5 years ago, I had an issue with a jacket(not sure the model but iirc it was around $550 new though i didnt pay half that), and it was sent to them to repair, but after months of crickets, i went back to the dealer that sent it out for me and they said i can basically pick out any jacket equal to or greater value of my jacket as long as I pay the difference, if there was a difference. I understand this is more a stores policy, but i doubt they would be giving away jackets if they werent sure theyd be getting a new replacement from arcteryx.

unless their underlying warranty has changed in recent years, i would push back and ask that the jacket be replaced or repaired.

[Likes2ridefar]

It changed. I pushed back and ended up with two damaged jackets returned to me. My wife fixed hers herself that arcteryx said was not repairable. The theta ar I just tossed and bought an OR shell.

[72gmc]

Now that you’re a free agent, I’m an Endura fan. Their closer fits, if that’s what you’re looking for, are very well made and good in bad weather.

[benb]

I have a Theta AR that's just about 10 years old and is falling apart now.. laminations are starting to just release on the inside.

I bought a Marmot jacket to replace it for snowboarding. Didn't want to bother with the warranty. My Theta AR is just thoroughly used up.

The big thing with the various Arcteryx lines is what selection of face Fabrics they use and how they cut the jackets.

Alpha SV historically was a weird climber specific jacket, it was cut short to make room for a climbing harness which is mostly for winter ice climbing and mountaineering. It was a huge fashion choice in the city for no reason at all, possibly cause guys in the city trying to look sporty don't actually need any coverage and didn't need to wear anything under it. It seems like it's a poor choice for actual winter activities unless you very specifically do need to wear a climbing harness. $900 or whatever it costs that jacket is silly unless you really need a jacket that does that specific thing or you're just wearing it as a fashion accessory. Going from a Theta to an Alpha might be disappointing if you're not a climber.

My Theta AR would be extremely annoying with a climbing harness (I do climb, but no interest in winter climbing.). Largely cause the Theta and whatever replaced it are cut longer and would go over the harness. But that is an extremely GOOD thing for snowboarding & skiing and XC ski and snowshoeing, etc... If you were to be biking in cold weather you'd also probably want the longer cut.

If you get in the dealer and can look at the various lines from SV -> AR -> LT you will see the jackets have different weights of face fabric. SV will be almost completely super heavy face fabric that's slightly below motorcycle textile. AR will only have that fabric in high wear areas where backpack straps will rub, or where you'll sit on the jacket. But the lighter fabric is still super tough. LT and then whatever super light is will be much much lighter. My wife has an LT or super light or whatever.. it doesn't seem like it would hold up to falling on skiis/snowboard, climbing, rope rub, etc..

I somewhat regret getting the Marmot shell.. it's largely for snowboarding that I got it but it's not a good all around jacket like the Arcteryx was. The Marmot is basically an "SV" it feels ridiculously heavy and has zero lighter face fabrics anywhere. It makes it hard to move. Meanwhile the Marmot is cut stupid in other ways that make you really think Arcteryx gets it at a level others don't. I have cyclist arms.. I'm not the rock. I have tons of room in the torso on the Marmot but the arms are too small to have a lot of layers underneath. Arcteryx cuts the arms bigger. Likewise the Marmot has a powder skirt that might work for skiing but it's insanely annoying for snowboarding as it restricts twisting at the torso. Arcteryx also got this right. Arcteryx hood design is also amazing. My theta tightened down great for non-helmet use and adjusted big enough for very easy helmet use. The Marmot isn't quite big enough for the helmet and makes you unzip a little to pull it over the helmet. And meanwhile it can't tighten up to use useful without a helmet like the Arcteryx. I just got back from 2 days of snowboarding and I'm figuring the new jacket out but some of it is silly. Stuff like "cut" should be really simple.

Of course almost all Arc'teryx is overseas stuff now.. so I wasn't as cool paying the massive prices.

[Plum Hill]

Great mention of the hood.
When I bought it, I thought “who needs a hood that will fit over a helmet”. I found out on an extremely wet three day bike ride in Wisconsin. Many towns flooded out that weekend, while I received a humorous Dry Rider Award at our Saturday night dinner.
Every time I go out in a rain, the first thing I do (or did) was snug the hood up.

Paying $600 for a Chinese made jacket seems as ridiculous as paying $10K for a Specialized with a Chinese made frame.
If Feathered Friends* can produce American made down products at a realistic price, surely someone can produce a shell here, too.

* my local North Face dealer was pissed that I didn’t buy from him. When he saw the higher quality and more fill at a cheaper price, he shut up. Similarly, a Swiss shop owner asked if he could see my jacket. After a thorough examination, he did a quick currency conversion and shook his head at what the Mamut stuff on his racks were selling for.

[verticaldoug]

Anyone familiar with the line that can tell me the differences between the Beta AR (All Round) and the Alpha SV (Severe)?
Intended use is for inclement weather, anything from light showers to downpours to snow storms.

Backstory: I have 2004, though bought about two years later on sale, Theta AR. It had been repaired once under warranty. Recently, a zipper became detached from the material. Doing the required laundering and water-proofing before return, other attachments came off. Arcteryx says it can’t be repaired and has offered a 40% coupon for anything in stock on their website.
The Beta AR lists at $599; the Alpha SV at $799. From what I see, the Alpha upcharge is for Canadian labor (I took pride in the ‘Fabrique en Canada’ label in the Theta).
While it saw limited use, the Theta saved my butt (torso, actually) during many downpours. At an advancing age, I wondering if I’m at a point of diminishing returns where a cheap Patagonia would be a more realistic purchase. Then I look at regular flapped zippers vs. waterproof zippers and wonder if getting soaked just once is worth the price point.

I think the Beta AR is a little more breathable with hybrid materials (nd80 and nd 40) Alpha SV is nd100.

The big difference will be abrasion resistance. The SV is tougher. As someone else said, the SV is made in Canada instead of Canada so a bit of a premium there too.


Unless you were iceclimbing or serious tree skiing, I think you can skip the SV.

Its all going to be bomber.

With 40% off coupon, I'd stick with arcteryx and not consider patagonia. It seems you the last garment was worth the money, stick with what's been good to you.

[Likes2ridefar]

someone can produce a shell here, too.
.

I’m very happy with my feathered friends bags and jackets and vests. They are almost never used where I live now…the vest I have from them is like wearing a cloud of weightless warmth.

I’ve looked all over for locally made shells and can only recommend one brand but it requires thinking outside the box and wouldn’t meet certain requirements while completing crushing others that may not be high on the list.

Rbh designs are made in CT custom vapor barrier shells that I liken to a get out of jail free card. As long as you are active I have a hard time imagining conditions where you can get cold if you are covered in their fabric be it a jacket pants or mittens face mask hat etc. I wear their socks, mittens, face mask, and jackets for extreme conditions such as winter hiking in the Adirondack mountains. It also works well on the bike for sub freezing temperatures. They aren’t truly waterproof but it doesn’t really matter if they get wet. They aren’t very fashionable but are custom and you can get the exact cut you desire.

[Likes2ridefar]

I also have an arcteryx alpha fl shell which I like more than the theta ar. It is cut nicely for my skinny 6 foot build and has all I need. It’s a bit stretchy, very light and blocks the wind and rain and has an excellent hood.

Not that I’d buy it again, as mentioned I’m really disappointed with the brand after backing out of a lifetime deal we made a number of years ago on very expensive jackets. It galls me even further that the discount they offer is certainly not even close to cost plus delivery.

[rice rocket]

Not that I’d buy it again, as mentioned I’m really disappointed with the brand after backing out of a lifetime deal we made a number of years ago on very expensive jackets. It galls me even further that the discount they offer is certainly not even close to cost plus delivery.

The brand is just a name now. They were acquired by a Chinese conglomerate, who boycotted the NBA after teams/players stood by Hong Kong during the political clampdowns last year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anta_Sports


But maybe that's outside the scope of this thread. :)

[GonaSovereign]

The brand is just a name now. They were acquired by a Chinese conglomerate, who boycotted the NBA after teams/players stood by Hong Kong during the political clampdowns last year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anta_Sports


But maybe that's outside the scope of this thread. :)

No, I don’t think it is. If you care about who your money goes to, you determine the parameters for ongoing transactions.

The company that was no longer exists. Now it’s a line item for a holding company.

I still have a couple very nice items, but any affinity for the brand withered order current ownership. (I’m sure my affinity doesn’t matter to them.)

[C40_guy]

The brand is just a name now. They were acquired by a Chinese conglomerate, who boycotted the NBA after teams/players stood by Hong Kong during the political clampdowns last year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anta_Sports

But maybe that's outside the scope of this thread. :)

Not at all. Some of us care a bunch. I always loved my (few) Arcteryx products, including a backpack I used for some hut to hut hiking on the Appalachian trail years ago.

If the brand is just another item in portfolio, I'm not interested.

Probably wouldn't stop me from buying "vintage" gear on eBay, tho. :)

[PaMtbRider]

My wife is looking for a hardshell and was considering a Beta AR. $600 is a hard pill to swallow but I've spent quite a bit more on a Goretex motorcycle jacket. After reading this thread I have second thoughts on Arcteryx. Any other brand recommendations?

[Likes2ridefar]

Montbell, Rab, OR, Patagonia are my picks.

[jkbrwn]

Seconding Rab. Properly good stuff. Owned by Equip Outdoor Technologies who also own Lowe Alpine. Not made in the U.K., but they are at least climate neutral.

Or Patagonia for that lifetime warranty/company ethics.

[AngryScientist]

Montbell

Nice stuff, but watch the sizing and cuts on this stuff. Best if you can try it on before buying IMO. For whatever reason, my experience is the cuts/fit of this stuff is quite different then the competitors.

[eippo1]

Yah I fricking love these guys. I had a Theta AR that I beat to hell. I sent to back to them to see if they could fix the zipper. They said no, but they could either send it back or give me 40% off. I think that's great support because lifetime warranty is warranty not lifetime abuse replacement.

So I took them up on it and got the Beta AR and it's a wicked solid jacket. Find it's way more up to winter conditions than the Theta was. Figure I should be able to beat the hell out of this jacket for a while. Went with this over the Alpha SV because it is a bit less fitted and more suitable for layering underneath.

As for rain storms, I've had no wetness and this is important to me since I like to wear light down underneath for those high 30 degree downpour days. I've had it for about a year, been on a few hikes, used it for winter stuff, but also use it for walking my dog. Most say well that's not high impact, but I have a shepherd/ chow mix who doesn't give a crap about rain and is perfectly happy to take me on a 3 mile walk (the longest of her walks these days since she's 14) in absolute torrential rains.

[jkbrwn]

It should be noted that gore Tex pro (the toughest of the gore Tex) is GTP no matter who the jacket is made by. So, while I’ve owned Arc’teryx items before and still use some of them, I’d probably just get the GTP shell that fits me best at the most competitive price point next time I buy one.

[gasman]

I didn't know Arcteryx had been sold to a Chinese conglomerate. I have a Theta AR that has had a lot of use. They replaced the main zipper on it several years ago free of charge. That was probably before they were sold. The rest of the coat is still holding up well.
Lots of good choices out there as has been pointed out. My next, and probably last will be from Patagonia.

[Dired]

40% is just not a good enough solution for a scrapped garment. Fight them on 100% reimbursement. I've had multiple items fully warrantied by Arcteryx without any issues.

[Likes2ridefar]

40% is just not a good enough solution for a scrapped garment. Fight them on 100% reimbursement. I've had multiple items fully warrantied by Arcteryx without any issues.

Good luck now. It changed in the last few years. They simply won’t do it and in my case edited the warranty language stating it is a limited lifetime warranty rather than the no matter what guarantee that was agreed upon at purchase.

I just dug up the email and it was in 2020 when I last dealt with them. They offered me 50% then not 40.

[benb]

Semi related, I don't know where in China Arcteryx is now made but I just finished reading Made in China by Amelia Pang..

The garment industry comes out looking really, really bad in the book. Companies like Arceteryx don't change their lineup weekly but basically all the western brands make ridiculous demands of the Chinese factories and the Chinese will always "find a way or make one" and when the factory can't possibly get the work done they are outsourcing to nefarious sources.

The book is worth a read.

Also since I mentioned snowboarding it makes me super glad I didn't buy anything Burton when I got a new board this year. Especially ridiculous cause the Made in the USA boards are extremely competitive versus Burton MIC. Burton is not mentioned in the book but it's easy to connect the dots with other press about them.

It does feel really bad that Arcteryx still has an insane price premium and is all MIC... the price premium seems much larger now than when I bought my shell 10 years ago. Back then it was $500-600 for made in Canada versus $350 or something for competitors made in China. Now it's like $800-900 for made in China Arcteryx versus $350-500 made in China for everyone else. The $100 upcharge for Made in Canada on the Alpha SV is kind of a joke given the high base price of the made in China shells.

[Dired]

Good luck now. It changed in the last few years. They simply won’t do it and in my case edited the warranty language stating it is a limited lifetime warranty rather than the no matter what guarantee that was agreed upon at purchase.

I just dug up the email and it was in 2020 when I last dealt with them. They offered me 50% then not 40.

Just dealt with them on a veilance jacket warranty and they initially only offered a 40% coupon. Wrote them a long love letter and they came through with a 100% credit.

[Likes2ridefar]

Just dealt with them on a veilance jacket warranty and they initially only offered a 40% coupon. Wrote them a long love letter and they came through with a 100% credit.

It’s good to know if you beg or write a love letter they make exceptions.

[eippo1]

It’s good to know if you beg or write a love letter they make exceptions.

Yah, I feel the same with Suunto. Even though they are bought out by a Chinese conglomerate, it's still the same people employed by and running day to day (though with more made overseas in ArcTeryx's case). I've had great interactions with them and their stuff lasts far longer than most items and they understand fit.

This is coming from a huge gear junkie -- I literally have an entire closet full of jackets for any situation and have gone through a ton. Favorite shells from everything I've owned have been my Marmot lightspeed and the Beta AR. I had a Beta LT for many years that they replaced under full warranty (even though it was abuse) and that's how I got the next Theta. Wouldn't mind having another LT from them, but the Marmot fills the same niche and I also have a Zeta SL for a really light layer.

[fmradio516]

Not sure if it was brought up already, but i wonder if Arcteryx is honoring the original warranty on jackets bought prior to the acquisition. That would seem wrong if they didnt. Warranty is part of the purchasing process.

[Plum Hill]

I just pulled out the hang tag from my jacket.
“Any defects in materials or workmanship are covered for the lifetime of the product. Product damage through wear and tear, neglect or misuse will be repaired at a nominal charge.”

Reply from Arcteryx:
“ Thank you for your patience while we give your gear a full assessment. We can see the delamination issue on your Theta AR Jacket from 2004 and we’d like to help find a solution.

During our assesment, we have found multiple areas of delamination, not just at your arm pit zipper. Unfortunately, at a certain age the fabric and materials can naturally begin to separate or “delaminate” on the product. For this issue, we have no repair options available that will provide a long-lasting solution. Delamination can usually be attributed to age and in some cases a collection of moisture deep inside that causes the slow degradation of the glue substance that holds the layers together. Like any material exposed to varying conditions of weather, it eventually wears down.

Stitching can fix some areas, the result will not be waterproof and once the glue has degraded a new application of glue will not bond to the fabric. When delamination occurs on the seams, face fabric or backer, restoring the product to its original state and function is not possible. For those reasons, we do not have an available repair option because any attempt we could make would not meet our standards of quality.

While this product may be beyond our Limited Warranty, we would like to help you continue your adventures in a newer one.”

I noticed the company claims a “Limited Warrant” while the tag says “The ARC’TERYX Warranty”. Nothing about limited.

A trip to REI and another shop in St. Louis proved almost useless. These aren’t the type of products readily available to try on or compare.
The best help came from a young(er) lady at REI that recommended I try on the next size up because a large was…she treaded gently until I added “snug”.

[Ozz]

...

Also since I mentioned snowboarding it makes me super glad I didn't buy anything Burton when I got a new board this year. Especially ridiculous cause the Made in the USA boards are extremely competitive versus Burton MIC. Burton is not mentioned in the book but it's easy to connect the dots with other press about them......

Thread drift....what board did you get?

A soccer buddy from college runs this company: Mervin Mfg....Mervin is the longest running and last major board building factory in the USA. (https://www.mervin.com/about/)

Looks like they make Roxy & GNU.

[Likes2ridefar]

Not sure if it was brought up already, but i wonder if Arcteryx is honoring the original warranty on jackets bought prior to the acquisition. That would seem wrong if they didnt. Warranty is part of the purchasing process.

They aren’t…all mine were purchased with a lifetime warranty agreement.

[Likes2ridefar]

Here is mine from 2020….note they named my jacket improperly and it was an alpha sl.

We’ve completed a full assessment of your Theta SL Jacket and we can clearly see the delamination issue. We’re sorry you had this experience and we want to help find a solution for you.

Due to the nature of the damage and age of this product, it is unfortunately beyond our Limited Warranty. For cases like this, our repair team can usually help to restore the product. Sadly however, this product has reached a point where the only repair options we have will not provide a long-lasting fix that we could stand behind.

We try our best to keep products going for as long as possible, but sometimes we must find another solution. That being said, we’d like to help the best we can. In place of a repair, if you are willing to part ways with this Theta SL Jacket we would like to offer you 50% off any new Arc’teryx product of your choice.

[Likes2ridefar]

We bought some glue online and stuck them all back together and the jacket looks new…

[Plum Hill]

Sounds like they use the same generic “it’s not our problem” form email/letter.
I thought about repairing it since I really like the jacket, but, in reality, it has become “snug” too. The vast majority of my clothes have shrunk horizontally over the years.

I just remembered a much older (as in made in Pennsylvania) Cannondale GoreTex rain set in the closet. This thing is much older than the Arcteryx piece. Absolutely no delamination, split seams, or anything coming apart. This got used far more often and in worse condition than the Arc piece.

[fmradio516]

They aren’t…all mine were purchased with a lifetime warranty agreement.

Thats crazy. I wonder if part of the deal with the acquisition was that they didnt need to honor the warranty anymore. If its that easy to just null a warranty, that would make me think twice about buying a product because it had a "lifetime" warranty.

[Likes2ridefar]

I just remembered a much older (as in made in Pennsylvania) Cannondale GoreTex rain set in the closet. This thing is much older than the Arcteryx piece. Absolutely no delamination, split seams, or anything coming apart. This got used far more often and in worse condition than the Arc piece.

Ding ding :)

I have a few examples from different brands to support exact same.

The alpha sl was barely used and stored in a climate controlled unit inside a container.

I had a big Agnes tent experience something similar. Big Agnes sent a new tent right away for free and basically said yea, that waterproof backing and technique proved to be a bust but it was great while it lasted…

[rice rocket]

Thats crazy. I wonder if part of the deal with the acquisition was that they didnt need to honor the warranty anymore. If its that easy to just null a warranty, that would make me think twice about buying a product because it had a "lifetime" warranty.

Reading the emails people have been posting, it's clear they've been intentionally wording it as vague as possible.

"Lifetime of the product" means any other damage to the product outside of the part you're trying to get warrantied can be argued as "exceeded lifetime of the product". Great marketing tool though. :)

[benb]

The weak points in mine were:

- Cuffs on the sleeves.. the velcro getting any little overlap onto the face fabric eventually begins to fray the fabric. They could have fixed this by making the fuzzy part on the sleeve larger to avoid the hook part every hitting face fabric.

- Theta AR had a cinch strap in the chest pockets to tighten the chest when you're not wearing bulky layers. The cord for this runs around the back of the chest in a laminated sleeve.. the cord eventually pulled the laminations off.

But 10 years.. whatever, wasn't worth warranty for me. Still though.. a few stitches here or there instead of laminations that added an ounce to the total weight would have made it a 25 year shell. I have had a few other shells that weren't so dependent on lamination and they were clearly more durable.

Also whatever the soft fabric around the neck.. that stuff was majorly bad in absorbing sweat and getting stinky.. I've never seen that on any other GTX Shell I've had.

[Plum Hill]

I photographed the warranty on the tag and forwarded it to the company. Waiting on reply.
I searched for warranty information but the catalog reprints that came up were in Chinese. My friend’s son does speak Mandarin….

[pdonk]

I had a veilance jacket start to delaminate about 4 years ago after 5 years of wear. Sent them pictures of the bubbles on the fabric, got an RA number and dropped it off at a local store, once they received the jacket back at HQ a new one was on its way. Total process took less than 3 weeks. a

Crazy thing was that I bought the jacket on steep closeout (think I paid $500 CAD for it) and since they did not make the same model anymore, they gave me a choice of two that were comparable - ended up with a $2400CAD down liner and gortex shell. One thing they did say is that you only get this opportunity once. Figure that this one should last at least another 6-7 years, so I will have gotten close to 20 years out of one purchase.

I also have a 15 year old hard shell, one of the chest zippers is broken. They gave me a very reasonable price to repair, which I will likely do this summer.

While I don't like that they are no longer Made in Canada to the same degree they once were, I would purchase again but only on steep discount.

[C40_guy]

Thats crazy. I wonder if part of the deal with the acquisition was that they didnt need to honor the warranty anymore. If its that easy to just null a warranty, that would make me think twice about buying a product because it had a "lifetime" warranty.

If it works for J&J to avoid class action law suits by hiding liabilities in a sub...

[slowpoke]

The brand is just a name now. They were acquired by a Chinese conglomerate, who boycotted the NBA after teams/players stood by Hong Kong during the political clampdowns last year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anta_Sports

Whoa, did not know this, thanks for sharing! Seems like Chinese and Korean conglomerates are the new titans in the outdoor industry.

Paying $600 for a Chinese made jacket seems as ridiculous as paying $10K for a Specialized with a Chinese made frame.
If Feathered Friends* can produce American made down products at a realistic price, surely someone can produce a shell here, too.

Someone's gotta pay for all those new retail shops Arc'teryx has been opening up!

[benb]

Whoa, did not know this, thanks for sharing! Seems like Chinese and Korean conglomerates are the new titans in the outdoor industry.


Some of these industries I think this is inevitable. Barely anyone here even knows how to sew anymore and so many garment brands are just marketing & executives.

If your industry completely outsources the core of its business eventually leadership has no idea how to actually make the product and you become completely vulnerable to the people in a foreign country that you transferred all of your IP and knowledge too. At some point they pull themselves up and become fierce competitors.

Maybe some businesses take longer to do this due to biases in the customer base and marketing but we've seen it over and over for a generation or two. Giant & cycling is a perfect example. What would happen if a handful of Taiwanese manufacturers really started playing hardball on high end carbon bikes and started cutting production of high end American/European brand names that have ended their ability to actually mass produce high end carbon bikes?

TSMC in semi-conductors is the same thing writ large on a scale that threatens the entire balance of the world economy. Obviously we previously saw it with all kinds of electronics in the 80s.. e.x. Sony and TVs.

[slowpoke]

Barely anyone here even knows how to sew anymore and so many garment brands are just marketing & executives.

Agreed. To clarify, I was moreso talking about parent companies like VF Corporation and the rise of overseas competitors.

When you move production overseas, it's inevitable that the factories there will take your knowledge and end up producing their own products. However, what matters for many consumers is the brand image that's built up. There's a bunch of titanium cookware on Amazon/Aliexpress, yet folks still pay the Snowpeak premium even though it's arguably the same thing. But we're suckers for tabiki time.

The Arc'teryx brand still has a few years left. If they continue to erode it with mediocre customer service, or climber anecdotes about delamination woes on K2, and consumers will flock elsewhere--esp as more "normies" wear the dead bird. Patagonia became passé in the past ten years with its saturation.

[jkbrwn]

Agreed. To clarify, I was moreso talking about parent companies like VF Corporation and the rise of overseas competitors.

When you move production overseas, it's inevitable that the factories there will take your knowledge and end up producing their own products. However, what matters for many consumers is the brand image that's built up.

The Arc'teryx brand still has a few years left, but with enough cases of mediocre customer service, or climber anecdotes about delamination woes on K2, and consumers will flock elsewhere--esp as more "normies" wear the dead bird.

Well, given it's huge rise in popularity with normies and zoomers in the last 18 months, I'd say they are doing juuuuust fine and will continue to be just fine. Arc'teryx x Jil Sanders, Arc'teryx x Palace, Arc'teryx x Beams... there's a new Arc'teryx audience in town.



Oh - and another company to add to the list of Arc alternatives is Norrona. Have always been really impressed with their stuff when I've handled it.

[slowpoke]

All they need now is a Purple Label, Japan exclusive, Veilance ;)

[eippo1]

Thread drift....what board did you get?

A soccer buddy from college runs this company: Mervin Mfg....Mervin is the longest running and last major board building factory in the USA. (https://www.mervin.com/about/)

Looks like they make Roxy & GNU.

I thought Niche boards were still made in USA too. Hmm, looks like they switched to the Mediterranean and before that Austria. Weird.
https://nichesnowboards.com/about/#:~:text=Niche%20is%20based%20out%20of,quality%20a nd%20environmentally%20friendly%20snowboards.

[jkbrwn]

All they need now is a Purple Label, Japan exclusive, Veilance ;)

I'm not into the north face at all, but man Nanamica have nailed tnf purple line. I drool over that stuff.

[pdmtong]

Here is mine from 2020….note they named my jacket improperly and it was an alpha sl.

We’ve completed a full assessment of your Theta SL Jacket and we can clearly see the delamination issue. We’re sorry you had this experience and we want to help find a solution for you.

Due to the nature of the damage and age of this product, it is unfortunately beyond our Limited Warranty. For cases like this, our repair team can usually help to restore the product. Sadly however, this product has reached a point where the only repair options we have will not provide a long-lasting fix that we could stand behind.

We try our best to keep products going for as long as possible, but sometimes we must find another solution. That being said, we’d like to help the best we can. In place of a repair, if you are willing to part ways with this Theta SL Jacket we would like to offer you 50% off any new Arc’teryx product of your choice.

As would be expected, issues are often handled case-case. I had a pair of Arcteryx shorts replaced with a better version. I had a jacket which they chose not to repair and was offered a similar 50% off coupon.

Patagonia is no different. My wife has a gen 1 nanopuff - the quilt pattern is diamonds not squares like you see everywhere today. the stitching is coming apart and they elected to replace rather than resew. the diamond pattern is less industrial looking so we found the person locally that did sewing repairs for Patagonia and took it to her instead.

[coffeecherrypie]

I just pulled out the hang tag from my jacket.
“Any defects in materials or workmanship are covered for the lifetime of the product. Product damage through wear and tear, neglect or misuse will be repaired at a nominal charge.”


Let me pretend to be their devilish lawyer (I'm not a lawyer btw). Your delamination is just a thing that inevitably happens with long use--so it's not a defect in materials or workmanship. So the first sentence of the original warranty doesn't apply. But, nor is the damage repairable. So the second sentence doesn't apply. So we are free to improvise--hence the 40% discount offer.

I'm sure what's really going on is that they never say *anything* is repairable (and probably rarely admit anything is a defect either), which is slimy, but I'm also reasonably confident they ran the language of the original warranty past some well-paid lawyers before buying the company and were assured they can get away with this kind of thing, the original wording having some large holes (no pun intended) in it.

[KonaSS]

Let me pretend to be their devilish lawyer (I'm not a lawyer btw). Your delamination is just a thing that inevitably happens with long use--so it's not a defect in materials or workmanship. So the first sentence of the original warranty doesn't apply. But, nor is the damage repairable. So the second sentence doesn't apply. So we are free to improvise--hence the 40% discount offer.

I'm sure what's really going on is that they never say *anything* is repairable (and probably rarely admit anything is a defect either), which is slimy, but I'm also reasonably confident they ran the language of the original warranty past some well-paid lawyers before buying the company and were assured they can get away with this kind of thing, the original wording having some large holes (no pun intended) in it.

I can see some of this. As a reasonable person, should I really expect any apparel item to last the rest of MY lifetime. Like this is the last time that I EVER need to buy a jacket? Most everything has a finite life. And if I wear a jacket 75 times a year for ten years through all kinds of conditions, is that a reasonable lifetime for that jacket?

[fmradio516]

sure its not reasonable to expect any active wear to last a lifetime, but when the company boasts a lifetime warranty, you take that into account when you are deciding between brands.

Like an EMS brand jacket may fit you better, but Arc has the warranty..

[C40_guy]

I think "lifetime" is now defined as "two fashion cycles".

[reuben]

I think "lifetime" is now defined as "two fashion cycles".

Do '60s bellbottoms and '80s big hair count? Skinny jeans... the list goes on...

[Likes2ridefar]

I can see some of this. As a reasonable person, should I really expect any apparel item to last the rest of MY lifetime. Like this is the last time that I EVER need to buy a jacket? Most everything has a finite life. And if I wear a jacket 75 times a year for ten years through all kinds of conditions, is that a reasonable lifetime for that jacket?

It doesn’t matter if it is reasonable or not. If they advertise and attach to the jacket there is a no matter what warranty then that is what it should be.

[benb]

Thread drift....what board did you get?

A soccer buddy from college runs this company: Mervin Mfg....Mervin is the longest running and last major board building factory in the USA. (https://www.mervin.com/about/)

Looks like they make Roxy & GNU.

I got a Lib Tech Cold Brew which is also a Mervin brand. I already had GNU bindings on my old board and just took them over to the new one.

My understanding is Never Summer is the only other brand/manufacturer still in the US, they are out of Colorado and are 100% made in the USA.

I have/had a family connection to both Mervin & Burton.. one of my family members was in WA and was connected to people at Mervin and then was hired by Burton to move back to VT (he and I are both from VT). He went from hating Burton to loving Burton cause they gave him a dream job.. then hating them again. Burton is not a great place to work.

It's exceedingly ridiculous that Mervin can make stuff in the US with supposedly near zero waste and zero toxic chemicals and undercut brands made in UAE and China. It's a big accomplishment.

[Ozz]

....
It's exceedingly ridiculous that Mervin can make stuff in the US with supposedly near zero waste and zero toxic chemicals and undercut brands made in UAE and China. It's a big accomplishment.
My friend was always the smartest guy in the room...he is an engineer, and got patent on a ski testing machine while getting his MBA....ended up at K2 designing skis, and was eventually the CEO or President or something.....left there to go to Mervin....nothing surprises me about what he does.

Cheers!

[Blue Jays]

I am trying to figure out how everyone is so detail-oriented they can recall the exact model of their Arc'teryx garments! Between jackets, shirts, gloves, hats, and and vests I simply cannot recall that remarkable level of detail!

One of my best Arc'teryx jackets has a CA# 34438 model number and stylized "X over AR" logo inside the chest pocket, yet other than that I would not know how to determine specific model or year…

[xnetter]

2 or 3 years ago I send back a Theta AR jacket (that I had bought second hand but was basically unused) to Arcteryx HQ because it was starting to delaminate around the taped seams. Arcteryx assessed the jacket and determined it was a construction failure issue rather than a wear-induced repair and told me I could choose any other jacket they had in stock online, on the house. I was pretty impressed by that.

KJ

[dsimon]

Look I get it but I mean its a 4-500 Jacket.. that's lasted 10 years plus thats 40-50 clams a year doesnt seem that bad to me I use the Arctyrx atom and that lasted 5 years so 250/5 seems pretty good to me? No

[Plum Hill]

I see LL Bean has narrowed their return/warranty policy. At one time their warranty was worth gold. They advertised that they fixed XX-years old product for the original buyer.

As for how one knows the exact item they have - I kept the garment tag. After all, it spelled out that great warranty they offered. At the time.
Arcteryx’s reply is in my in box, but I haven’t looked at it yet.
In my case, the product was babied. Limited use. Always hung to dry. Cleaned when needed. Hung for storage. Carefully folded for travel. Looking at it, and reading a lot on the ‘net, I come to the conclusion they had an issue with glue failure.
If I wore the thing four times a week for ten or fifteen weeks a year, I’d say it was just worn out. But it wasn’t used that often.
It would be nice if they’d just offer to fix it, explain the repair wasn’t guaranteed, and have me sign an agreement; then make a concerned effort to repair it.

[fmradio516]

I see LL Bean has narrowed their return/warranty policy. At one time their warranty was worth gold. They advertised that they fixed XX-years old product for the original buyer.


Yes indeed. I am wearing a pair of $100 slippers from LL Bean right now that I bought less than 5 years ago and they are completely falling apart. LL Bean refuses to help out at all. Not even a discount.

[Likes2ridefar]

Look I get it but I mean its a 4-500 Jacket.. that's lasted 10 years plus thats 40-50 clams a year doesnt seem that bad to me I use the Arctyrx atom and that lasted 5 years so 250/5 seems pretty good to me? No

Again, they offered a warranty that they repeatedly have failed to live up to. Why do we rationalize?

[tellyho]

I've had great service from Marmot. Bought a top of the line 3 layer shell 30 years ago and used the **** out of it (Outward Bound instructor). When it inevitably delaminated, they gave me a new 3 layer Gore Tex pro shell that is still going strong. Would buy at retail again.

[fmradio516]

bumping this up...

My 10 year old Alpha SV is starting to delaminate a little bit. Brought it to the store, a couple days later, i got an email saying they'll give me $675 credit for it.

But im thinking(and i need opinions!) Is it better to keep the 2014 jacket instead of essentially trading it in for one of the post-chinese-acquisition jackets of today? Was thinking the Beta AR would be a good change, but if the quality is crap....

[benb]

I got my new Beta AR in the mail since this thread was last bumped. I'm kind of fine with it now but was not excited when I got it like I feel like I should have been.

I also got a package of iron on gore-tex repair tape, but I haven't used it on my old Theta AR yet.

I would definitely take the $675. I couldn't even get anything for my Theta AR because they discontinued it.

That said I don't think if you really use the Alpha SV you'd be happy going all the way to a Beta AR.

The new Beta AR I got does not feel like the same class of garment as an older AR garment. It's much lighter, they deleted the heavier patches of material.

An old AR is more like a current SV garment, though possibly even tougher than the current SV jackets. (The old AR jackets had a heavier material in the wear areas than the current SV ones do IIRC)

The new Beta AR I got will be better in warm wet or windy situations where the Theta AR was a little burly. But it doesn't feel like it would stand up well to harsh uses and it doesn't seem as well designed for winter outdoor activities. I will not wear it for snowboarding for example.

I think they got me in the right size but it's definitely not cut for layering quite as much either. Arm articulation is still great though. It's like the new one still fits with the same layers underneath but it's still not as comfortable in all positions and movements if I'm dressed really really warm and you can't put as much stuff in the pockets if you've got heavy layers underneath. The old jacket had an internal drawstring to pull the chest in when you weren't layering or didn't have stuff in the pockets.. it was way more versatile but it probably drove up production costs and increased the weight of the jacket a tiny bit.

Realistically I think the new jacket is very heavily biased towards fashion compared to the old one. The new one looks way more "trim" if you were just wearing it in the city without actually having to have warm layers under it.

I think we didn't know what we had till it's gone. I have a Marmot ski/snowboard specific shell that's a couple years old, the entire jacket is made of a 100+ dennier face fabric and yet it's still wearing faster from snowboarding than the older jackets did even with lighter face fabrics.

[gomango]

My wife is looking for a hardshell and was considering a Beta AR. $600 is a hard pill to swallow but I've spent quite a bit more on a Goretex motorcycle jacket. After reading this thread I have second thoughts on Arcteryx. Any other brand recommendations?

Yes, I wear my Patagonia Swiftcurrent for fly fishing, but it breathes so well I use it for winter riding as well.

Totally waterproof. Lifetime warranty.

https://www.patagonia.com/product/mens-swiftcurrent-wading-jacket/81771.html

[C40_guy]

While it saw limited use, the Theta saved my butt (torso, actually) during many downpours. At an advancing age, I wondering if I’m at a point of diminishing returns where a cheap Patagonia would be a more realistic purchase. Then I look at regular flapped zippers vs. waterproof zippers and wonder if getting soaked just once is worth the price point.

Life is too short to wear crappy clothes. Not that Patagonia is crappy.

[jkbrwn]

Life is too short to wear crappy clothes. Not that Patagonia is crappy.

The Pata Torrentshell is the best bang for buck waterproof out there. Regularly available for less than a hundred backs. Its crazy.

I also wouldn't buy Arc anymore. Norrona would be my choice for premium hardshells and pants.

[Jdm]

i applied my Alpha SV warranty credit towards a used Alpha SV. I think I paid $250 out of pocket, which was about how much I was going to pay for a new jacket.

[reuben]

The Pata Torrentshell is the best bang for buck waterproof out there. Regularly available for less than a hundred backs. Its crazy.

I also wouldn't buy Arc anymore. Norrona would be my choice for premium hardshells and pants.
Love my (old) Torrentshell.

[tellyho]

Did not read the remainder of the thread. Generally, Arcteryx is too pricey for me. I own a Bora 70 backpack from 20 years ago that I loved dearly and haven't used in 15 years :), and an Epsilon softshell that I bought used and love as well.

For warranty, I can't say enough about Marmot. I spent a number of years as an Outward Bound instructor and beat the **** out of a 3 layer mountaineering shell. Easily 200 days in the field + years of personal use. When the Gore Tex delaminated (as it does), they bascially gave m3 $375 of store credit to buy a replacement. I'll definitely be buying more of their gear.

[SlackMan]

Let me pretend to be their devilish lawyer (I'm not a lawyer btw). Your delamination is just a thing that inevitably happens with long use--so it's not a defect in materials or workmanship. So the first sentence of the original warranty doesn't apply. But, nor is the damage repairable. So the second sentence doesn't apply. So we are free to improvise--hence the 40% discount offer.

I'm sure what's really going on is that they never say *anything* is repairable (and probably rarely admit anything is a defect either), which is slimy, but I'm also reasonably confident they ran the language of the original warranty past some well-paid lawyers before buying the company and were assured they can get away with this kind of thing, the original wording having some large holes (no pun intended) in it.

I get this, but it's then difficult to see where to draw the line. I bought a Travelpro suitcase with a "lifetime" warranty. Wheels wore out prematurely (basically delaminated), which I interpret as manufacturing defect in that a cheap material of insufficient durability was used. Travelpro said they won't cover because it's "wear," and wear and breakage is not covered. I say "well, if you use material that's too cheap and not durable, the wheel will wear out or break." I ask "how then does the warranty EVER cover ANYTHING?" Super disappointed in them and will never buy Travelpro again. Sad to hear other brands acting like this too.

[verticaldoug]

Realistically I think the new jacket is very heavily biased towards fashion compared to the old one. The new one looks way more "trim" if you were just wearing it in the city without actually having to have warm layers under it.

.

Of course it is fashion forward. Arcteryx was bought by Salomon when it was a subsidiary of Adidas. It was spun out as Amer Sports with Salomon, Atomic, etc and in 2019 52% of the company was bought by Anta Sport which is a Chinese conglomerate. (they also own Suunto, FILA, ENVE)

They just sell what the burly wealthy city dweller wants to look cool on the slopes. The expeditions are just for marketing cred.
Although, if you are a working outdoor professional, you can join the pro program and get a discount which is a good deal.


For this segment, the more expensive the ultra-light minimalist gear the better.

I've been bummed ever since TNF stopped making the Kichatna jacket in the 90's.

If you want to see the real nose bleed prices, go to Arcteryx LEAF. I think that is just priced to fleece the public purse.

[fmradio516]

That said I don't think if you really use the Alpha SV you'd be happy going all the way to a Beta AR.

The new Beta AR I got does not feel like the same class of garment as an older AR garment. It's much lighter, they deleted the heavier patches of material.


This is what i was afraid of... I might run to the store on my lunch break today to see what a beta AR feels like, because if the material feels like the old EMS $99 windbreakers, im keeping what ive got... I just dont understand why they wont just give me the same jacket as the replacement. I "paid" over $800 for the jacket almost 10 years ago but i have to spend another couple hundred bucks to get the same jacket?

I am a little psyched about this because ive "grown" since i bought the jacket, and its feeling a little tighter, so Id love to take the opportunity to size up anyway.

[Plum Hill]

I walked away from Arkteryx. Even sellers of the brand told me too.
I ended up with a Black Diamond soft shell. BD’s hard shell had a wierd cut.
I tried for a Mammut when on vacation but could never find the desired model in my size.

[Likes2ridefar]

I’d say eat up the credit and not give them any extra $ and get a better brand jacket if you need it for its intended design. Outdoor research and rab come to mind outside some others already recommended.

[Bandrewhill]

Soooo disappointed to hear they are Chinese owned now. I have love my Beta AR’s over the years and had a Beta replaced by warranty at one point. It really makes me want to buy from the boutique companies like feathered friends.

[Likes2ridefar]

Soooo disappointed to hear they are Chinese owned now. I have love my Beta AR’s over the years and had a Beta replaced by warranty at one point. It really makes me want to buy from the boutique companies like feathered friends.

They unfortunately don’t make equivalent jackets to the arcteryx shells.

Their down is far superior to any other brands I’ve used to date excluding western mountaineering(I know a few others exist similar but not a main brand). The loft and warmth is incomparable.

I just ordered an Eos hooded jacket that I’m eagerly awaiting maybe next week. I’m a big fan of their bags and have a mid weight vest from them I got for $50 back before they became very popular. Now it’s over $300 for the same.

My hummingbird bag is 13 years old and still lofts like new after a cleaning this summer.

[Plum Hill]

A big thumbs up to Feathered Friends.
I’ve had a Helios for years.
A local NF dealer got mad when I walked in wearing it. After a discussion and his examination of the jacket, he admitted the quality and price made it a hands down winner, not to mention the Seattle manufacturing.
I was even stopped in a Swiss outdoor store so the manager could look at the garment.
Only downside with FF is the low stock. Not sure what’s driving that.

[Likes2ridefar]

Only downside with FF is the low stock. Not sure what’s driving that.

From their site:

We are still a relatively small, family-owned business, so the majority of our stock remains in a partial state of production until it is ordered. Depending on where your item is in the process of being made, it can be as little as the time it takes to ship (if the item is completely finished). Most products will ship within 72 hours.

My eos jacket order placed a few days ago said 7-12 days due to high demand.

[jkbrwn]

On that note - shout out to Nunatak. The finest ultralight down garments on the planet IMO. Feathered Friends, Western Mountaineering and Nunatak are in a class of their own.

I have a quilt, hoodless bag and bear canister specific pack from Nunatak and they are all incredible.

I was finally able to purchase a jacket from Nunatak yesterday - I've been trying for a year but kept missing the sale window. The L/XL size I ordered weighs 14.3oz but has a whopping 8.5oz of 900fp - 60%ish of total garment weight. Box baffles. 1.25" of loft. Beyond stoked to get it.

[Likes2ridefar]

On that note - shout out to Nunatak. The finest ultralight down garments on the planet IMO. Feathered Friends, Western Mountaineering and Nunatak are in a class of their own.

I have a quilt, hoodless bag and bear canister specific pack from Nunatak and they are all incredible.

I was finally able to purchase a jacket from Nunatak yesterday - I've been trying for a year but kept missing the sale window. The L/XL size I ordered weighs 14.3oz but has a whopping 8.5oz of 900fp - 60%ish of total garment weight. Box baffles. 1.25" of loft. Beyond stoked to get it.

That will be a very warm and lofty jacket! The Helios vest I have is cozy and fluffy with ~5oz 900fp and 10oz total weight. The vest is too warm for nearly all needs where I live now. I use it once a twice a year maybe!

[jkbrwn]

That will be a very warm and lofty jacket! The Helios vest I have is cozy and fluffy with ~5oz 900fp and 10oz total weight. The same model jacket scales similarly. Yours must be a belay or for high elevation mountaineering?

Yeah, its 3+ season for sure. And also where I am in the Southern Sierra while only at 2500ft, has very easy access all the way up to 9000ft where it is cooooold. In the peak summer in the Sierra, I only take a 90gsm Alpha hoody with me and a very lightweight rain jacket and that usually keeps me warm enough so I wouldn't dream of taking it with me in the summer. This is for early/late season stuff high up or even just in frigid temps. Static comfort temp is 20f. I want to spend some time in Utah on the plateaus in March so would take it then. I want to spend more time in the high(er) Sierra later into the year, not just up until September, so its for that too.

[Likes2ridefar]

Try adding a vapor barrier shell if you haven’t already beneath the down layer to protect it from vapor and create an even warmer system. For me, who gets cold easy from evaporative heat loss, it is almost a get out of cold free pass, but like anything it has its limits and uses…

[eippo1]

This is what i was afraid of... I might run to the store on my lunch break today to see what a beta AR feels like, because if the material feels like the old EMS $99 windbreakers, im keeping what ive got... I just dont understand why they wont just give me the same jacket as the replacement. I "paid" over $800 for the jacket almost 10 years ago but i have to spend another couple hundred bucks to get the same jacket?

I am a little psyched about this because ive "grown" since i bought the jacket, and its feeling a little tighter, so Id love to take the opportunity to size up anyway.

I have a newer generation Beta AR in the summer of 2020. It gets worn regularly and still looks like the day I got it. Plenty rugged for me and I actually found the older versions too stiff and effing loud. Had a Beta SL for years for that reason and when that delaminated 7 years ago, I got a Zeta for something wicked light, but missed the heavier jacket so eventually got the Beta AR that I speak of above.

[fmradio516]

I have a newer generation Beta AR in the summer of 2020. It gets worn regularly and still looks like the day I got it. Plenty rugged for me and I actually found the older versions too stiff and effing loud. Had a Beta SL for years for that reason and when that delaminated 7 years ago, I got a Zeta for something wicked light, but missed the heavier jacket so eventually got the Beta AR that I speak of above.

Thats good to hear. Im gonna go to the store in SoHo later to try one on and see how i like it!

[eippo1]

Thats good to hear. Im gonna go to the store in SoHo later to try one on and see how i like it!

Yup, I still think they are the bees knees and this is coming from someone that has no kids and treats outdoor gear like a hobby. I have over 20 jackets and vests for every possible layering situation. I have the Beta AR, Zeta SL, Tenquille hoody, Kyanite hoody (midweight fleece), Cormac zip (1/4 longsleeve zip) and they are my favorites out of each category. Though I prefer Mammut for puffy stuff and Mountain Hardware for stuff I really abuse like snowboard gear because I don't wanna pay an arm and a leg for it.

[climbgdh]

I bought my first Arc’teryx piece probably close to 30 years ago when it was a tremendously small company….. and the vast majority of their products were made in Canada. Packs, soft shells, etc. I swore by them and literally destroyed many items ice & alpine climbing, mountaineering & skiing. Those activities are incredibly hard on gear. Now…. My eyes water at the prices but I do admit they still make a great product. For 10 years I worked within walking distant of their main office and got some great deals on their warehouse sales. Now the only time I buy their gear is when I happen to get a pro deal thru friends in the biz and happen to get coupon codes.

[benb]

This is what i was afraid of... I might run to the store on my lunch break today to see what a beta AR feels like, because if the material feels like the old EMS $99 windbreakers, im keeping what ive got... I just dont understand why they wont just give me the same jacket as the replacement. I "paid" over $800 for the jacket almost 10 years ago but i have to spend another couple hundred bucks to get the same jacket?

I am a little psyched about this because ive "grown" since i bought the jacket, and its feeling a little tighter, so Id love to take the opportunity to size up anyway.

Eh.. EMS used to be great but then went downhill and is now under yet another set of owners, and it seems to be getting better again.

I had multiple EMS Goretex shells that really well made. They were heavier than Arcteryx but made a different set of tradeoffs. But very well made, the last one I had was in the Gore-Tex XCR era. But they have not re-entered that market, EMS doesn't make anything like that right now.

But no the new Arcteryx still doesn't feel like a $99 windbreaker.

I have an LL Bean windbreaker/jacket that served a purpose when the other choice was the Theta AR. But with the newer Beta AR being so light the $99 LL Bean jacket will probably not get used that much just since it breathes badly.

There is no way I paid $500+ for the Theta AR in 2013. I got some kind of deal.. more like $300. I got it at Hilton's tent city in Boston.. maybe it was last year's model or something. It was a great buy at that price.

[fmradio516]

Yup, I still think they are the bees knees and this is coming from someone that has no kids and treats outdoor gear like a hobby. I have over 20 jackets and vests for every possible layering situation. I have the Beta AR, Zeta SL, Tenquille hoody, Kyanite hoody (midweight fleece), Cormac zip (1/4 longsleeve zip) and they are my favorites out of each category. Though I prefer Mammut for puffy stuff and Mountain Hardware for stuff I really abuse like snowboard gear because I don't wanna pay an arm and a leg for it.


There is no way I paid $500+ for the Theta AR in 2013. I got some kind of deal.. more like $300. I got it at Hilton's tent city in Boston.. maybe it was last year's model or something. It was a great buy at that price.

Yeah no way id pay full price for these. Theyre super nice, but thats a lotta money... I got my original Arc(dont remember the model) in 2010 from a friend that worked at the Tannery in harvard sq. I think I got 70% off retail. And then i had a slight problem with it around 2014 and went to the tannery on boylston st and the guy sent it to Arcteryx for a warranty repair, but after 3 months, they still didnt send it back, so he let me pick out a replacement, so i got the Alpha SV..

BUT i just got back from the store, and i tried the Beta AR in a large(same size as my Alpha SV) and it fits SOOO much better. In every way. Not as tight as the Alpha, and i LOVE that it doesnt have that storm hood crap that the Alpha SV has. I cant wait to get it!

Side note. My buddy told me to try on the "Atom hoody" and i think it is hands down the most comfortable piece of clothing ill ever own. If you have an Arc or REI near you, check if they have those in stock and try it on. Im absolutely getting one.

[Likes2ridefar]

There is no way I paid $500+ for the Theta AR in 2013. I got some kind of deal.. more like $300. I got it at Hilton's tent city in Boston.. maybe it was last year's model or something. It was a great buy at that price.

I got my first theta ar in nyc at paragon sports 50% off. It was before they had waterproof zippers with a Velcro flap in front of the main zipper. After a few years the material in the front chest area fell apart so they gave me for free no questions asked my choice of any jacket currently in stock. I got another theta ar and it was from the time period most consider the peak time for arcteryx; a Canadian made beautiful quality jacket that fit like a glove. I used it heavily for many years then gave it to my dad after arcteryx repaired the delaminated parts under warranty. He still uses it and it looks pretty much like the day I got it.

[JedB]

I had a "sidewinder" from ArcTeryx in 2005
The zipper came up the middle until the collarbone and then went to my right cheek and up to the top. This avoided having the seam at the base of my chin.

In 2021 the seams finally gave up the ghost. Still have the shell and will probably re-seam it myself.